Crazy council plan for clontarf.

expectationlost

dcc council review report out http://naoise.ie/?p=1652 page 65 higher costs for seawall raising page 60 twice as much

raising the seawall at the sea means it has to be higher then the setback wall/mound

expectationlost

was looking to sea if the claim that this is all about making it easier to extend the port across the way and what was said about the port expansions effect on clontarf flooding

an bord pleanala say that the extend developement would reduce thee wave height by 1.06 metres

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/PA0007.htm pg23 but on pg 91 it said there be little difference?

unfortunate that the dublin port eis don't exist anymore http://web.archive.org/web/20100508232855/http://www.dublingateway.ie/eis/

did they ever manage to get an alternative report done?

although it mostly about the visuals

Yakuza

Visuals were not the only (nor the main) reason for the objections. The main points were:

Visuals
Loss of amenity
Public safety concerns at the sea wall side of the berm.

The proposal was unanimously defeated. Next time, DCC will hopefully actually engage with the people their proposal will affect.

bamboozle

Degsy wrote: »

Too much...they can easily reduce costs by not including a path in the plans.

I hope common sense prevails and the cheapest option is the one implemented.

Ah Degsy, the logical, rational and well thought out opinions you have enlightened us to on this topic are truly overwhelming. Sure at the end of the day, people dont need amenities, paths, areas to exercise, walk or play football.

expectationlost

bamboozle wrote: »

Ah Degsy, the logical, rational and well thought out opinions you have enlightened us to on this topic are truly overwhelming. Sure at the end of the day, people dont need amenities, paths, areas to exercise, walk or play football.

higher costs for seawall raising, twice as much

raising the seawall at the sea means it has to be higher then the setback wall/mound

bamboozle

expectationlost wrote: »

higher costs for seawall raising, twice as much

raising the seawall at the sea means it has to be higher then the setback wall/mound

i'm not sure what point you are trying to make in responding to my previous comment. I'm fully aware raising the sea wall would have cost more. My issue with that other poster was that irrespective of the outcome or points made on here he has a very strange issue with all things clontarf.

with regards costs for raising the sea wall, i'm just going to hazard a guess in suggesting that world-wide the generally accepted practice for similar flood protection/prevention is by building sea-walls and not mounds of muck which double up to hide water pipes.

expectationlost

bamboozle wrote: »

i'm not sure what point you are trying to make in responding to my previous comment. I'm fully aware raising the sea wall would have cost more. My issue with that other poster was that irrespective of the outcome or points made on here he has a very strange issue with all things clontarf.

with regards costs for raising the sea wall, i'm just going to hazard a guess in suggesting that world-wide the generally accepted practice for similar flood protection/prevention is by building sea-walls and not mounds of muck which double up to hide water pipes.

ah here we have another of all the clontarf civil engineers, that were out campaigning

expectationlost

expectationlost wrote: »

http://aodhanoriordain.blogspot.com/2011/10/raising-clontarf-flood-defences-under.html

In Aodhan O'Rriordain's Dail speech he referenced "Dublin City Council’s Clontarf promenade steering committee" what sort of steering committee was that, an internal council technical one? I can no reference to anyway else online.

and "The minutes of the meeting indicate that council officials realised, even at that point, the need to provide clear images and drawings for the public consultation process. This recommendation was not pursued, however."

minutes?

So often planning involves some badly photocopied technical drawings, that you might not be able to read, Also I think planners don't like to draw diagrams at early stages, because they think that the public may presume they are definitely happening, basically theirs condescension to the public from experts who job it is to make things clear. Would like to see more diagrams with each option, where it shows the how far the sea has and will come.

got a reply from Jane Horgans Jones on this ..." it was Mr. Tom Leahy who made that recommendation re the clear images and drawings...."

seems he failed to implement his own recommendation

expectationlost

here's an idea do the mound but raise the sea/wallpromenade at the _wall_ parts

d4guy

RATM wrote: »

This. The biggest eyesore in Dublin, the power station at Poolbeg ruins any semblance of a view. It is even worse over at Sandymount, I can never understand people paying €2m+ for a house that looks out on two ugly chimney stacks, much better views in Killiney & Dalkey IMO.

I should start by saying that I was fully against the "Wall" and "Mound" at Clontarf and glad that it's not happening now as it is a wonderful amenity. However, as someone from the other side of the bay in Sandymount, it raised questions about our own coastal flood defences.

I must take issue with the above point. The view of the Poolbeg chimney stacks is actually much less of an eyesore than what is made out, by the above point, from the Sandymount side. While their prominence is quite obvious when looking left over the bay, the largest proportion of the view looks right across to see Howth Head and the Irish Sea and to the right, the coast curves to the views of Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire Pier and Killiney/Dalkey. While on the Clontarf side, you need to be a good distance out (past the wooden bridge) to see any decent view without seeing "Dublin Port".

expectationlost

City manager John Tierney said officials would now return to the residents and business groups to discuss the implications of the councillors’ decision and would report back to the councillors next February.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1206/1224308622023.html

did they

expectationlost

City manager John Tierney said officials would now return to the residents and business groups to discuss the implications of the councillors’ decision and would report back to the councillors next February.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1206/1224308622023.html

did they

expectationlost

theres a 1 day public workshop on this issue on 23rd of october organised by the dcc


oh apparently its just for the clontarf resident/business association

expectationlost

heres a survey from the clontarf RA

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=YAx05PUmIE%2fuMBfm5nqdhw%3d%3d

again the questions are 95% about the view and amenities not about doing something about the flooding

gurramok

High sea levels are predicted in the next few days, yet again flood defences have to be addressed. I wonder are insurance companies looking unfavourably on Clontarf coastal residents as the threat of flooding to their homes is very high.

expectationlost

this process has started up again, atleast the public process has

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/clontarf-residents-to-have-say-in-design-of-controversial-flood-defence-wall-29113956.html

they are going to have consultation process, but i don't know what we'll see, if we don't get to see what DCC has in mind, then what is there to consult about, will they only say at last minute actual height like last time?

more info from clontarf residents association

http://www.clontarf.ie/news/clontarf-promenade-development-and-flood-defence-project-update

apparently there have small working groups but the rest of have to wait months to get minutes of meetings, this consultation and transparency DCC style

report frm workshop abt #Clontarf Flood Defence Scheme held on 23rd of October 2012 is published March 6th 2013 http://t.co/yT6Qvq2l8S


this is the important bit

Shared understanding of Clontarf flood risk

There is a general acceptance from all participants of the risk of coastal flooding in Clontarf. The community of Clontarf values the promenade as an amenity close to the city but there is also an acceptance of the need for flood defences. The height of the flood defence must be sufficient to prevent the sea flooding the land and must also be of a sufficient height such that any water coming over the defence, due to wave overtopping will not also cause flooding damage. While minor flooding of the promenade by wave overtopping does not pose a threat, major flooding of the promenade by wave overtopping does pose a flood risk. Definitive flood defence design for the 3km stretch depends on the nature of the risk impact and the amenity value of the receiving environment.

expectationlost

Angry residents and traders gear up for Battle of Clontarf II http://www.herald.ie/news/angry-residents-and-traders-gear-up-for-battle-of-clontarf-ii-29115706.html


"I'd put up with a bit of flooding rather than lose the view."

expectationlost

official dcc update posting that report http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/waterprojects/Pages/CoastalFloodingProjects.aspx#clontarfpromenadedevelopmentandflooddefenceproject

expectationlost

http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=2168&l=100

Contrary to some media reports, those privy to the plans say there is no proposal to build a controversial flood barrier.*

As it stands only a framework for how the plan will develop and proceed has been agreed to protect the area from flooding and to preserve the amenity of Clontarf Promenade.

* of course there is thats the whole point of this,

i know people like to exaggerate their knowledge in their favour, but its ridiculous how can there be public consultation if the public arn't being told what the plans are.

expectationlost

why is the CRA/CRB are the only people invited to these meetings http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=2339&l=100 whats with wierd secrecy which results in a

report from workshop about Clontarf Flood Defence Scheme held on 23rd of October 2012 only being published March 6th 2013 http://t.co/yT6Qvq2l8S

expectationlost

3 months since the last batch of meetings and no word


"The consultation and discussions are via the local representative group referred to CRA/CRB this has been agreed by the City Council and the elected members."

Dublin City Council and councillors conspiring to withhold information about clontarf flood berm from the wider public, the council treating people as stupid as somehow unable to handle information, this info control won't avoid mistakes they made last time

expectationlost

finally after months an update http://www.clontarf.ie/news/latest-update-on-clontarf-flood-defence-project

expectationlost

Flood walls may be axed in new plans consultation http://www.herald.ie/news/flood-walls-may-be-axed-in-new-plans-consultation-tom-leahy-with-the-councils-assistant-area-manager-elaine-mulvaney-and-business-and-residents-representative-eilis-obrien-29534359.html

rubbish this plan is just a temporary landscaping plan to make the locals who complained feel in control the flood defence bern will come back in couple of years

expectationlost

RTE News Council warns Clontarf needs permanent flood defences http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0110/497086-clontarf-flooding/ well communicate properly about it and you might get them

dusty207

expectationlost wrote: »

RTE News Council warns Clontarf needs permanent flood defences http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0110/497086-clontarf-flooding/ well communicate properly about it and you might get them

So, a short row of sandbags 2 or 3 feet high avoided disaster? Why doesn't the city council build a little wall to the same dimensions and be done with it? They'd build it in the time it took them to install the sandbags.

expectationlost

http://www.clontarf.ie/news/update-in-relation-to-flood-defences-for-clontarf-promenade

they've agreed a dual defence system,
the joint working group have suggested a curve wave return sea wall with a berm at the back of the promenade which will not require it to be so high, along with a massaging of the national height requirement or predicted storms

Use joint probability to calculate required defence levels at
the existing sea wall and adjacent to pathway beside Clontarf
Road for 100 year and 200 year events. These calculations
are to be based on a dual defence system, using the existing
sea wall, extended to the corner adjacent to Alfie Byrne Road
at a height of 1.1m above ground level and a mainly new wall
on the sea side of Clontarf Road Footpath beside the
Promenade.
This analysis is to include the breaking up of the primary
waves at the sea wall, filling up of the promenade area with
sea water, generation of secondary waves in the Promenade
area to the second wall which will have a number of closable
floodgates to allow pedestrian access. Escape of floodwaters
seaward after flood event and the use of non-return valves.
Calculations of the height of the second wall should take into
account the distance between it and the sea wall and the
beneficially role the Promenade will play in alleviating
flooding. The primary objective is to reduce the height of the
secondary flood wall to its minimum while maintaining the
statutory flood protection levels required by the Office of
Public Works.

http://www.clontarf.ie/_media/2/images/blogs/update-in-relation-to-flood-defences-for-clontarf-promenade/update-in-relation-to-flood-defences-for-clontarf-promenade.pdf

don't know why they couldn't have done this in the first place, hopefully they produced proper drawings this time so people will be able to see what will happen

but what about the water main that supposed to go along there http://www.dublincity.ie/WATERWASTEENVIRONMENT/WATERPROJECTS/Pages/NorthFringeWaterSupplyScheme.aspx

Other options to protect certain higher risk areas of the
promenade from flooding first, require a full flood scheme to be
developed, agreed and a funding stream for it secured.

so what that? the sticking points skipped over

expectationlost

referenced in the recent report

Clontarf Promenade - Landscape Analysis Presentation 19th June 2013 http://www.slideshare.net/naoiseomuiri/flood-alleviationbrief170214

expectationlost

very interesting review of the Clontarf Flood Defence Wall And Promenade via Turas http://www.turas-cities.org/uploads/biblio/document/file/396/TURAS_WP3_2014_10_17.pdf
starts page 175

it reviews the failure of the public consultation, they put out the plan for public consulation in 2006 and then it was 5 years later they mentioned in passing at meeting with the resident association chair that they works were going to start and and the chair was like what?

the DCC person says we put up a few displays at a parish hall, 4 people turned up, and they thought they'd done enough consultation, they seem to have change the plan between the time the consulted and put it before an bord pleanna, mixing it with water pipe plain.

theres the 2006 drawing i've never seen before, and even still its not a drawing thats going to show the impact of the berm.

dcc guy saying people didn't understand that some areas the lands dips down and this is where it would be highest, (but a 9 foot heights is still that same height no matter ) but was required obviously to stop the flooding.

and DCC still doing it they've now tried to co-opt the CRA/CBA and restricting the infromation from anybody else, so if the people on that committee don't like something they stop the whole project for the city.

tampopo

Floppybits wrote: »

I am really beginning to believe that only morons are working in councils and government in this country. Anyways the story here is that the council plan to build an 8 foot mound of muck all along the clontarf promenade. This will mean that the views from there will now be blocked of by the mound. I mean what sort of idiot thinks of this along one of the most used parts of the city. Its nuts.

clontarf residents object to insane flood defence plans

Go upstairs if you want to look out the window at the bay. Simples.
Those headlines should read "insane residents object to flood defence plans".

Gomango

They are placing vertical steel columns in the grass area opposite Marlowe dry cleaners all last week. Anyone an idea what they are?

Theyre hardly for flood defence?