Bus Eireann routes 109/109A Changes

horseburger

lxflyer wrote: »

Until we see the final proposals for the revised routes and more specifically the timetables no one can comment on that - it's pointless otherwise.

I see no harm in discussing what might result if Bus Éireann implements the specific proposals it made regarding the 109 route, considering it has been suggested in the news item to which I referred, that the changes will be made within the coming months.

I don't see any harm in discussing this issue, considering that last year, Bus Éireann invited the general public to make submissions, based on five specific proposed changes.

If you think it's pointless discussing this issue, you could equally argue that Brendan Smith TD, should not have made a statement, or that Northern Sound radio, should not have written a news item, regarding the route changes, because neither Brendan Smith or Northern Sound, gave any specific details, in the news item, on what changes will be implemented.

LXFlyer

horseburger wrote: »

I see no harm in discussing what might result if Bus Éireann implements the specific proposals it made regarding the 109 route, considering it has been suggested in the news item to which I referred, that the changes will be made within the coming months.

I don't see any harm in discussing this issue, considering that last year, Bus Éireann invited the general public to make submissions, based on five specific proposed changes.

If you think it's pointless discussing this issue, you could equally argue that Brendan Smith TD, should not have made a statement, or that Northern Sound radio, should not have written a news item, regarding the route changes, because neither Brendan Smith or Northern Sound, gave any specific details, in the news item, on what changes will be implemented.

The news item tells us that changes will be made this year - that's all, and to be fair that's worth reporting. But we will have to wait and see what exactly the final plans entail - there may be significant changes from the original proposals or indeed there may not!

The issues you are raising are ones that I recall were raised last year at the time of the consultation on this board (and are valid questions) and were discussed at the time here, but I'm not really sure what's the point in rehashing that discussion without any new information to add, but if you think so, then fire away.

horseburger

lxflyer wrote: »

The news item tells us that changes will be made this year - that's all, and to be fair that's worth reporting. But we will have to wait and see what exactly the final plans entail - there may be significant changes from the original proposals or indeed there may not!

The issues you are raising are ones that I recall were raised last year at the time of the consultation on this board (and are valid questions) and were discussed at the time here, but I'm not really sure what's the point in rehashing that discussion without any new information to add, but if you think so, then fire away.

One of the reasons I am mentioning the issue of whether or not there'd be enough people between Cavan, Virginia and Kells, to use the 109 Cavan - Dublin service throughout the day - if the route was changed to have it avoid Navan and Dunshaughlin - is that, as it stands, far more often than not, when the 109 Cavan services going to Dublin during the day, arrive to pick up in Kells and Navan, and Dunshaughlin, there is enough room to take everyone who is waiting.

So, if Bus Éireann is going to have 109 Cavan - Dublin buses avoiding Navan and Dunshaughlin and also run separate 109 services from Navan to Dublin, then it seems to me that they will be increasing the numbers of buses being used throughout the whole day.

I fear that that scenario may end up being far more expensive for Bus Éireann, and I wonder how long such an increase of services, throughout the whole day, would last.

As well as that, whilst often priority is given to Donegal passengers on the Donegal Dublin 30 bus, it serves Cavan and Virginia as both drop off and pick up points, so I wonder if there'd be enough people using the buses at Cavan and Virginia on both the 109 and 30 to merit the 109 from Cavan avoiding Navan and Dunshaughlin.

If you feel inclined to discuss this, I'm curious to know what you think - do you use the 109 regularly?

gazzer

I was in Virginia yesterday morning to get the 9.30 109 to Dublin. At 9.20 a private bus (on hire to BE) turned up. Driver said he was only stopping at Busarus. Gang of us got on and we were in Busarus for 10.40.

If there was a service like that all the time it would make all the difference in commuting times between Virginia and Cavan

horseburger

gazzer wrote: »

I was in Virginia yesterday morning to get the 9.30 109 to Dublin. At 9.20 a private bus (on hire to BE) turned up. Driver said he was only stopping at Busarus. Gang of us got on and we were in Busarus for 10.40.

If there was a service like that all the time it would make all the difference in commuting times between Virginia and Cavan

Did that private bus start in Virginia, or was it the bus that started in Cavan at 9am? Maybe it was an extra bus if there were a large number of passengers at Cavan bus station going to Dublin for the 9am service from Cavan?

I'm just wondering, if such a service as the bus you got yesterday, was put in place on a daily basis, throughout the day, between Cavan, Virginia and Dublin and return - that does not stop anywhere between Virginia and Bus Aras - would there be enough people using it every day, from Cavan and Virginia, to fill most of the seats on the bus, to merit avoiding Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin?

Would there be enough people from Virginia at any one time, going to Dublin, to have a service that starts from Virginia, that has no stops between Virginia and Dublin?

McGeehans tried a service, in October 2013, with Virginia as a last stop before Dublin, and it lasted three weeks.

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2013/10/19/dd-deal-of-the-day-buy-a-return-ticket-for-the-price-of-a-single-on-mcgeehan-coaches/

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057063976&page=3

One boards.ie user - iverjohnston - said, in the discussion at the time, in response to news of the discontinuation of this service:

"It was great, but not enough people were using it to make it viable. Apparently costing ten thousand a week to provide, and they needed sufficient numbers to turn a profit, but this wasn't happening. a great pity."

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87714275&postcount=27

I think that the amount of people using the 109 services between Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin, on a daily basis, throughout the day and late evening, help fill seats on the 109 Cavan Dublin services, and perhaps, as a result, help sustain the service.

What I have noticed about the 109 services from Cavan to Dublin is, that there is usually enough space in Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin for passengers waiting for it.

Also coming from Dublin, there is, very often, enough space for passengers for Dunshaughlin, Navan, Kells, Virginia and Cavan on these 109 services to Cavan.

As an example, often, on the 10.30pm 109 from Bus Áras to Cavan, most of the passengers get out in Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells.

That's why I am not sure how full a regular service between Dublin and Cavan would be if it avoided Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells.

tom23

No 07:05 express this morning. 07:20 full when leaving market square, I'd say a lot of unhappy folk at the ard boyne.

tom23

lxflyer wrote: »

Until we see the final proposals for the revised routes and more specifically the timetables no one can comment on that - it's pointless otherwise.

Agree. These changes seem to be a long time coming.

horseburger

lxflyer wrote: »

Until we see the final proposals for the revised routes and more specifically the timetables no one can comment on that - it's pointless otherwise.

tom23 wrote: »

Agree. These changes seem to be a long time coming.

I was discussing specific proposed changes to the timetables, as outlined by Bus Éireann, in the leaflet it published last year.

http://www.meath.ie/media/Media,59939,en.pdf

I did so, to discuss how full the buses would be throughout the whole day, if the proposed changes to the routes are implemented. For instance, if they avoid some intermediate stops, how full would the hourly 109 buses be, between Cavan and Dublin throughout the day, if it is to have a last stop in Kells on the way to Dublin, avoiding Navan and Dunshaughlin.

I was not speculating on a route change, or an alteration to the timetable, that Bus Éireann has not proposed operating.

I asked gazzer, how full services would be, throughout the day, if, coming from Cavan, Virginia was a last stop on the 109 before Dublin, or if coming from Dublin, Virginia was the first stop before Cavan.

I asked this because - while that has not been proposed in the leaflet published last year by Bus Éireann - gazzer suggested that such a change would be beneficial to bus users from Virginia and Cavan, if it was operated all the time:

gazzer wrote: »

I was in Virginia yesterday morning to get the 9.30 109 to Dublin. At 9.20 a private bus (on hire to BE) turned up. Driver said he was only stopping at Busarus. Gang of us got on and we were in Busarus for 10.40.

If there was a service like that all the time it would make all the difference in commuting times between Virginia and Cavan

Such a change, would be beneficial for people going to Dublin from Cavan and Virginia - because it would take a lot less time - but is there enough people from Cavan and Virginia going to Dublin, throughout the whole day, to fill each bus service, to merit running services from Cavan throughout the whole day, without stopping in Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin?

It would result in less options for anyone going to or from Cavan and Virginia, who may wish to travel to and from towns like Kells or Navan, for example anyone going to or from Cavan Institute every day.

I gave an example of how McGeehan's Coaches tried such a service in October 2013, with Virginia as a last stop before Dublin, and it lasted only three weeks.

I also gave examples of how 109 services from Cavan, to and from Dublin, during the day and evening, are able to accommodate passengers going to and from Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin.

That is why I am not certain about how full services would be, to and from Cavan and Dublin, if they avoided the various towns in between Virginia and Dublin.

Commuter109

Is anyone any the wiser as to when the new changes to the service are commencing and as to what exactly those changes entail?

Thanks

LXFlyer

Commuter109 wrote: »

Is anyone any the wiser as to when the new changes to the service are commencing and as to what exactly those changes entail?

Thanks

Not yet - they're focussing on the N2 first.

The new coaches are finally being rolled out on the 109 so hopefully there will be movement in the not too distant future.

Slippin Jimmy

lxflyer wrote:

The new coaches are finally being rolled out on the 109

It's great to see the new coaches on the route. There seems to be more of them on the 109. They are much more comfortable than the older coaches. I take it that it was just a rumour that they were too big for getting around Navan town?

LXFlyer

Slippin Jimmy wrote: »

It's great to see the new coaches on the route. There seems to be more of them on the 109. They are much more comfortable than the older coaches. I take it that it was just a rumour that they were too big for getting around Navan town?

Remedial works were carried out.

gazzer

Its a pity the bus has to go through Navan town centre at all. Takes so long at certain times of the time. Surely it is time to open some type of depot in the town and stop the bus trying to navigate through the main street.

The new buses are great. Made my journey so much easier from Cavan by being able to charge my netbook and phone en route.

Commuter109

gazzer wrote: »

Its a pity the bus has to go through Navan town centre at all. Takes so long at certain times of the time. Surely it is time to open some type of depot in the town and stop the bus trying to navigate through the main street.

The new buses are great. Made my journey so much easier from Cavan by being able to charge my netbook and phone en route.

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2014/11/05/4033630-proposals-for-navans-bus-hub-to-be-discussed/

Not sure what ever became of this or if its still in the pipeline

munchkin_utd

gazzer wrote: »

Its a pity the bus has to go through Navan town centre at all. Takes so long at certain times of the time. Surely it is time to open some type of depot in the town and stop the bus trying to navigate through the main street. <snip>

even an interchange park and ride effort out at the motorway would be a start, like they are increasingly introducing in Northern Ireland along their motorways.

Stroke Politics

gazzer wrote: »

Its a pity the bus has to go through Navan town centre at all. Takes so long at certain times of the time. Surely it is time to open some type of depot in the town and stop the bus trying to navigate through the main street.

The new buses are great. Made my journey so much easier from Cavan by being able to charge my netbook and phone en route.

I believe that three separate sites were identified in Navan for Bus Éireann to look at, but no mention of any progress towards selecting an appropriate permanent site to set-down and pick-up from since mid-2015. Bear in mind that the bus currently picks up outside a business....

LXFlyer

There is of course the purpose built bus station at Navan Railway station complete with parking bays.....

Stroke Politics

By pure coincidence I happened to read the Chronicle today carrying a report of funding for design and consultation a bus hub in Kennedy Place. I can't link it from the Chronicle site as they publish very little of their published content for free on their website or Facebook page. Finally we might see some movement on this? I think it comes under this announcement....

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/en/News-Room/Releases/%E2%82%AC23_2m_allocated_for_sustainable_transport_projects_in_the_Greater_Dublin_Area1.html

Will be interesting to see where the 109/190 will be stopping on Kennedy Place. The only place I can think of is currently a privately owned car-park. I'd be for making Kennedy Place one-way up from the credit union to AIB, compulsory purchase the private car park, with buses coming in from Canon Row, and departing up Kennedy Place. But this is transport, and they want to put a bike lane on Flower Hill first....

Stroke Politics

Meath Chronicle has front page and two inside pages reporting on 4 year €12m planned traffic management and upgrade of streets incorporating new bus kiosk at a widened Kennedy Road, opposite entrance to shopping centre.

I have no link to the report, but the plan envisages the end of the bus travelling up Trimgate Street and the stops at Railway Street and Tommy Reillys shop will also go. Trimgate street will be "enhanced" with new paving, and Railway Street will be open to two-way traffic coming from Brews Hill. Dublin traffic will now travel UP Ludlow Street to the statue of the bull, with bus/taxi/bicycle traffic only allowed turn left at the bull across Trimgate Street and on to Kennedy Row. All other traffic will have to turn right at the bull. There are also plans for a bus terminus north of the town wit park and ride facilities.

The report also states that "real-time" traffic management will give right of way to buses travelling through Trimgate Street on to Kenned Row. BÉ are reported to be prepared to increase the local bus timetable, but there is no mention of further 109/109A services. There will be no right turn onto the Fairgreen from Circular Road, traffic will turn left opposite the Newgrange Hotel instead for access to parking at Fairgreen.

The impression I get is that buses will gain priority in the town, and they will not have to negotiate Railway Street/Trimgate Street/Canon Row. Plenty of detail and pictures of proposed changes in the report. This seems fairly comprehensive, the timescale for disruption is quite prolonged. ....

chewed

Stroke Politics wrote: »

Meath Chronicle has front page and two inside pages reporting on 4 year €12m planned traffic management and upgrade of streets incorporating new bus kiosk at a widened Kennedy Road, opposite entrance to shopping centre.

I have no link to the report, but the plan envisages the end of the bus travelling up Trimgate Street and the stops at Railway Street and Tommy Reillys shop will also go. Trimgate street will be "enhanced" with new paving, and Railway Street will be open to two-way traffic coming from Brews Hill. Dublin traffic will now travel UP Ludlow Street to the statue of the bull, with bus/taxi/bicycle traffic only allowed turn left at the bull across Trimgate Street and on to Kennedy Row. All other traffic will have to turn right at the bull. There are also plans for a bus terminus north of the town wit park and ride facilities.

The report also states that "real-time" traffic management will give right of way to buses travelling through Trimgate Street on to Kenned Row. BÉ are reported to be prepared to increase the local bus timetable, but there is no mention of further 109/109A services. There will be no right turn onto the Fairgreen from Circular Road, traffic will turn left opposite the Newgrange Hotel instead for access to parking at Fairgreen.

The impression I get is that buses will gain priority in the town, and they will not have to negotiate Railway Street/Trimgate Street/Canon Row. Plenty of detail and pictures of proposed changes in the report. This seems fairly comprehensive, the timescale for disruption is quite prolonged. ....

I don't understand the logic in Dublin traffic coming up Ludlow St and then forced to turn right at the Bull! Surely that will bring them back onto the Dublin road?

Stroke Politics

chewed wrote: »

I don't understand the logic in Dublin traffic coming up Ludlow St and then forced to turn right at the Bull! Surely that will bring them back onto the Dublin road?

I forgot to say it's not one-way coming from Academy Street/Dublin Road. They can also keep going up up Circluar Road in if they need to access Railway Street, they can turn right at Bridge Street up past Beggy's if accessing that part of town....

munchkin_utd

There are also plans for a bus terminus north of the town wit park and ride facilities.

Thats strange, as the previous plans were for a combined bus and rail station to the south of the town centre.

When you say north of town do you mean somewhere north of the centre but still south of the river (eg near the fire station) or is it planned to be north of the river ?

Stroke Politics

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Thats strange, as the previous plans were for a combined bus and rail station to the south of the town centre.

When you say north of town do you mean somewhere north of the centre but still south of the river (eg near the fire station) or is it planned to be north of the river ?

South of the river. I'd say it could be Balmoral Business Park. BÉ already keep buses there, and it was one of the sites look at for the transportation hub. There may be other sites along the Dublin Road stretch near Blackwater retail Park as well....

malene

Whoever drew up the new traffic plan for navan should take a drugs test! This is nuts! Leave it alone, it works fine and there's enough of a flow as there is. Sure, move the bus shelter away from markket square, but when its on kennedy t=road , where does it hav to pass to get to the dublin road, MARKET SQUARE. This is someone in an offie trying to justify their exorbitant wages , by doodling up something for the sake of it. Its fine, just leave it alone!

p.s take the 12 million and put it to our ladies hospital navan and upgrade sevices there, money better spent!

Fiskar

malene wrote: »

Whoever drew up the new traffic plan for navan should take a drugs test! This is nuts! Leave it alone, it works fine and there's enough of a flow as there is. Sure, move the bus shelter away from markket square, but when its on kennedy t=road , where does it hav to pass to get to the dublin road, MARKET SQUARE. This is someone in an offie trying to justify their exorbitant wages , by doodling up something for the sake of it. Its fine, just leave it alone!

p.s take the 12 million and put it to our ladies hospital navan and upgrade sevices there, money better spent!

Lads, we have 12 million, what will we do with it that will keep us and the lads busy and town disrupted till we retire.

No logic to what goes on in Navan.

munchkin_utd

Whats the craic with this route now ?
Its got very quiet on this thread so have the expresses been increased to cater for the majority of passengers who do not need a 5kmh tour of Dublin city from Busaras to Phoenix Park.

And I presume no news on any general re-jig on the N3 corridor means that is still a work in progress/ awaiting the N2 corridor changes to bed down fully.

horseburger

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Whats the craic with this route now ?
Its got very quiet on this thread so have the expresses been increased to cater for the majority of passengers who do not need a 5kmh tour of Dublin city from Busaras to Phoenix Park.

And I presume no news on any general re-jig on the N3 corridor means that is still a work in progress/ awaiting the N2 corridor changes to bed down fully.

On Bus Éireann's site, there is a timetable update, which was updated today, regarding the 109A timetable.

The 109A will operate 24 hours, every night, to and from Kells, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath, Ashbourne and Dublin Airport, from 31st July. According to the timetable, when leaving Dublin, it will pick up at Bus Aras, on its services throughout the night, and then it will pick up at the airport, Ashbourne, Ratoath, Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells.

I guess, some positive aspects of the alteration is, that it will give people who get the 109N night rider services at 12.30am and 3.30am on Fridays and Saturday nights, from Dublin home to Ratoath, Dunshaughlin and Navan, more options for getting home, and passengers at the airport will have more options for getting back as far as Kells throughout the night.

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1469614961-109A.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=2090&month=Jul

"Bus Éireann, in conjunction with the National Transport Authority, has recently carried out a review of services on Route 109A: Kells – Navan – Dunshaughlin – Ratoath – Ashbourne – Dublin Airport – Dublin City University. Following this review, a number of service improvements and timing changes will be implemented from Sunday, 31 July 2016".

"The service enhancements are as follows:
•The route will now operate 24/7 with an hourly frequency throughout the night with additional departures as follows: ◦From Kells – 22:40, 23:40, 00:40, 01:40 and 02:40".
"◦From Dublin City Centre – 00:25, 01:25, 02:25, 03:25 and 04:25
◦From Dublin Airport – 00:40, 01:40, 02:40, 03:40 & 04:40".

"•All service’s from Kells will now depart from a new terminus at the Lloyd Business Park at 40 minutes past the hour serving all stops as at present"
"•Services at night will now operate to/from the City Centre providing a 24 hour service linking Kells, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath and Ashbourne to Dublin City Centre".

"The 02:40 from Kells and 04:25 from Dublin will not start operation until Monday, 1 August 2016".

"These changes have been approved by the National Transport Authority".

"Bus Éireann would like to thank our customers for their continued support and patience during the implementation of changes to this route. We look forward to welcoming you on board our improved services in the near future".

"Wednesday, 27th July, 2016".

gazzer

What idiot rejigged that timetable for the 109a? Surely the buses leaving during the day should be timed to leave when the 109 arrives from Cavan? Now there will be a 40 minute wait in Kells to get the 109a.

horseburger

gazzer wrote: »

What idiot rejigged that timetable for the 109a? Surely the buses leaving during the day should be timed to leave when the 109 arrives from Cavan? Now there will be a 40 minute wait in Kells to get the 109a.

I guess when the 109 is revised, it will be scheduled to make connecting in Kells for the 109A more convenient, for anyone in Cavan or Virginia on the 109, who are going to the airport?

The revised 103 and 105 timetable would appear to be scheduled to allow for connections to be made between both services.

Is it possible for passengers from Duleek or Kentstown on the 105, who are going to Dublin, to connect in Ratoath or Ashbourne for the 103 Dublin service?

As an example, on the 105, the 6.47am 105 from Duleek, is scheduled to stop in Ashbourne Pilo Hotel at 7.21am and at Ashbourne Opposite John's Wood at 7.22am and in Ratoath Opposite Ballybin Roundabout at 7.35am.

There is a 103 Monday to Friday service to Dublin from Ratoath Ballybin Roundabout at 7.22am and at 7.42am, and a 103 service from Ashbourne Opposite John's Wood at 7.29am and 7.49am.

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1465298979-Route-105_V6.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1465298239-Route-103_V7.pdf

The connection in Kells for the 109A, for anyone from Cavan on the 109 going to the airport, was one of the options highlighted in the leaflet of proposals that was published by Bus Éireann last year.

http://www.meath.ie/media/Media,59939,en.pdf

gazzer

Hopefully the revised Cavan to Dublin service will start soon. On the last two occasions thatvi have got the 109 from Cavan the journey has taken 2 hours 40 minutes. Its crazy