Bus Eireann routes 109/109A Changes

Fiskar

Seen a broken down 109 at Dalgan park this morning, were BE on the ball with a standby? Seen a fair wack of passengers waiting in Dunshaughlin for that mystery bus.

haro124

Got the 19.30 bus to Cavan. Wouldn't start, left bus áras 20 minutes late, changed at phibsboro for a different bus.... Now the door won't close..... Now we're changing on to a different bus.... Love bus eireann

micraX

The LD'd are a ball of ****e now in fairness

gazzer

haro124 wrote: »

Got the 19.30 bus to Cavan. Wouldn't start, left bus áras 20 minutes late, changed at phibsboro for a different bus.... Now the door won't close..... Now we're changing on to a different bus.... Love bus eireann

I would be so pi$$ed off if I was on that bus. What time did you get to Cavan at?

haro124

gazzer wrote: »

I would be so pi$$ed off if I was on that bus. What time did you get to Cavan at?

I was only going to the tankard .... Got there in about 1 hr 55.....

People going to Cavan had to wait on the first replacement bus. All people going as far as kells were put on the 8 o'clock bus

Commuter109

Danger here ! Small bus for the 6.30 express, it's 6.18 and its over half full. Me thinks there are going to be people en route to bus aras who ain't gonna make it . Large 615 has just left for kells quarter full

Commuter109

Commuter109 wrote: »

Danger here ! Small bus for the 6.30 express, it's 6.18 and its over half full. Me thinks there are going to be people en route to bus aras who ain't gonna make it . Large 615 has just left for kells quarter full

Full and people refused at 6.27 ! Fair play BE! Seriously why would put a small bus on for a trip that you know isn't sufficient, and at same time have several half or less full buses leaving the yard ??

horseburger

Commuter109 wrote: »

Danger here ! Small bus for the 6.30 express, it's 6.18 and its over half full. Me thinks there are going to be people en route to bus aras who ain't gonna make it . Large 615 has just left for kells quarter full

Is the 109 bus that leaves at 6.15pm, the same bus that leaves Kells at 4.15pm for Dublin?

Is the 6.15pm 109 bus from Bus Aras to Kells, used for the service from Kells at 8.15pm for Dublin?

Is the 6.30pm 109 express bus from Bus Aras the same bus that leaves Navan at 4.55pm and is due in Bus Aras at 6.10pm?

Is the 6.30pm express bus used for a return trip from Navan back to Dublin once it arrives in Navan?

Have you asked Bus Éireann, if it is possible to swap the larger bus that you saw leave at 6.15pm and use it for the 6.30pm express journey?

Commuter109

Same issue on 5.30 this evening, full and gone at 5.26.

I would have thought that like most evenings at circa 5.10 , when you have 20 plus people choosing not to take the 5.15 slow coach and queuing for the 530 express , and take a snapshot 10 minutes later and have 40 in the queue got the express and few if any in the queue the 530 slow coach , the penny would have dropped with BE , people like expresses !

Sometimes I think if BE were running a restaurant they would close during lunch time and again from 7 until 10pm.

horseburger

Commuter109 wrote: »

Same issue on 5.30 this evening, full and gone at 5.26.

I would have thought that like most evenings at circa 5.10 , when you have 20 plus people choosing not to take the 5.15 slow coach and queuing for the 530 express , and take a snapshot 10 minutes later and have 40 in the queue got the express and few if any in the queue the 530 slow coach , the penny would have dropped with BE , people like expresses !

Sometimes I think if BE were running a restaurant they would close during lunch time and again from 7 until 10pm.

You keep repeating the same point.

Have you looked into it to see if there is another bus available at the times you have mentioned, for additional express services from Dublin to Navan?

Are you sure there are enough people for Navan at any one time from Dublin to fill two buses?

You keep referring to the other buses at those times as a 'slow coach'. Is this helpful, considering the other buses serve towns to which you are not going?

You spoke before of the 109 service avoiding Dunshaughlin and said that Dublin Bus should serve Dunshaughlin.

As it stands, the only other regular service throughout the day between Navan and Dunshaughlin is the 109A which doesn't go into the city centre.

Have you contacted Dublin Bus with regard to the viability of what you said before about Dublin Bus doing a route between Dublin and Dunshaughlin?

What has been the response? How regular would it be?

AlekSmart

horseburger wrote: »

You keep repeating the same point.

Have you looked into it to see if there is another bus available at the times you have mentioned, for additional express services from Dublin to Navan?

Are you sure there are enough people for Navan at any one time from Dublin to fill two buses?

You keep referring to the other buses at those times as a 'slow coach'. Is this helpful, considering the other buses serve towns to which you are not going?

You spoke before of the 109 service avoiding Dunshaughlin and said that Dublin Bus should serve Dunshaughlin.

As it stands, the only other regular service throughout the day between Navan and Dunshaughlin is the 109A which doesn't go into the city centre.

Have you contacted Dublin Bus with regard to the viability of what you said before about Dublin Bus doing a route between Dublin and Dunshaughlin?

What has been the response? How regular would it be?

The situation vis a vis Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus is the subject of a long standing internal CIE group agreement re operating areas.
It precluded either of the two companies moving into their respective areas.
However,it remains a very outdated situation,largely rendered inoperable by the march of progress.

The arrival of the NTA has also made this situation somewhat fraught,and it would be an interesting question to lay before the NTA itself....?

The 109 situation is most assuredly THE ideal test-case !

horseburger

AlekSmart wrote: »

The situation vis a vis Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus is the subject of a long standing internal CIE group agreement re operating areas.
It precluded either of the two companies moving into their respective areas.
However,it remains a very outdated situation,largely rendered inoperable by the march of progress.

The arrival of the NTA has also made this situation somewhat fraught,and it would be an interesting question to lay before the NTA itself....?

The 109 situation is most assuredly THE ideal test-case !

I asked that question because it had been stated by Commuter109, that Dunshaughlin should be removed from the 109 route, and served by Dublin Bus like Clonee.

I had a look at the Dublin Bus timetable for Clonee and for example at the weekend, the service is reduced to every two hours between Dublin city centre and Clonee.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/70/

This is considerably less frequent than the 109 between Dunshaughlin and O'Connell Street.

Considering Dunshaughlin is further out from Dublin than Clonee, I would have a doubt, even if Dublin Bus were permitted to run a service, that they would be inclined to run one between Dublin and Dunshaughlin, that is as frequent as the 109.

If Dunshaughlin was taken off the 109 route as suggested, there is the possibility that it would impact on passengers who get on at the 109 stops between Navan and Dunshaughlin. (Not everyone lives near town centre stops!:) )

The suggestion to remove Dunshaughlin off the 109 route was made with consideration for those who only go direct from Navan town centre to Dublin city centre.

Irish Steve

I don't use the 109, it doesn't cover our area, though the 109A does. Our service is the 103.

I cannot understand why there is not more cooperation between BE and Dublin Bus, at the end of the day, they are both owned by the same entity, US.

The 109 should run non stop to/from Busaras to Clonee park and ride, via DPT, M50, M3, every single one of them, with an option to transfer to/from BE to Dublin bus at Clonee for intermediate stops between Clonee and whichever stop between Clonee and the City centre is appropriate. There's a BE service, the 105, which could also cover that section of the route, they start in the same place, and don't split until Fairyhouse roundabout, so as long as there's a good cross timing, there should be no issues with using 2 buses with a good changeover at Clonee.

If I had a say in it, there would be other changes that would affect the 103 and 105, but that's a subject for another thread, the 103 should come either via Finglas, or Swords, and be merged with the 105, but that would take some sensible planning, and BE seem to be unable to come up with that fundamental requirement.

horseburger

Irish Steve wrote: »

I don't use the 109, it doesn't cover our area, though the 109A does. Our service is the 103.

I cannot understand why there is not more cooperation between BE and Dublin Bus, at the end of the day, they are both owned by the same entity, US.

The 109 should run non stop to/from Busaras to Clonee park and ride, via DPT, M50, M3, every single one of them, with an option to transfer to/from BE to Dublin bus at Clonee for intermediate stops between Clonee and whichever stop between Clonee and the City centre is appropriate. There's a BE service, the 105, which could also cover that section of the route, they start in the same place, and don't split until Fairyhouse roundabout, so as long as there's a good cross timing, there should be no issues with using 2 buses with a good changeover at Clonee.

If I had a say in it, there would be other changes that would affect the 103 and 105, but that's a subject for another thread, the 103 should come either via Finglas, or Swords, and be merged with the 105, but that would take some sensible planning, and BE seem to be unable to come up with that fundamental requirement.

Hi Irish Steve

I was just wondering though, if the 109 was to terminate at Clonee, about ensuring there isn't a long wait at Clonee for a connecting bus into the city.

There are three different 109 services operating during the day to Dublin. One starts in Cavan on the hour, the second starts in Kells at 15 minutes past the hour and there is another 109 that starts in Navan Market Square at 5 to the hour that goes through Johnstown on its way to Dublin.

Sometimes, due to traffic delays that may occur, 109 buses that leave Cavan on the hour, can be 10 minutes behind the printed schedule by the time they arrive in Navan. For example the bus that leaves Cavan at 5pm often gets to Navan at 6.10-6.15pm and gets to Dublin at around 7.25pm

109 buses that leave from Kells at 15 minutes past the hour get to Navan for 35 minutes past the hour and generally get to Dublin at 20-25 -30 minuttes past the next hour.

Sometimes, the 109s to Dublin that start in Navan at 5 to the hour that go through Johnstown, may arrive in O'Connell St within minutes of the 109 buses that start in Cavan on the previous hour.

So I'm just thinking that there may be an issue ensuring there is enough space on the Dublin buses at any one time at Clonee - if Clonee was to become the termination point for the 109 - for the passengers getting off the three different 109 buses at around the same time, heading into Dublin City Centre.

Irish Steve

I'm not suggesting that the 109 should start and finish at at Clonee, although it has possibilities, I am suggesting that anyone that wants a stop between Clonee and Busaras should be transferred from the 109 at Clonee and use either the 105 or DB services for places like Blanchardstown, or Phibsboro, or whatever, and that the 109 should run non stop from Clonee to Busaras via DPT. The 105 would be well capable of providing extra capacity from Clonee, if timetabled accordingly. it might also need some extra capacity on DB, but not much, if the comments here are anything to go by, the majority of passengers on the 109 seem to be boarding at Busaras, with very few being picked up or dropped at intermediate stops between Busaras and Clonee.

With the right feeders from Clonee to other areas of the city, it might even attract more passengers to the 109 from further out. If the 105 also went into Clonee and also more of the 105's served Ashbourne, and maybe even Dunshaughlin, it might even make it easier for people that live in those areas to be able to commute to places like Tallaght or Sandyford, if the right services were run from Clonee, which again would reduce the pressure on the city centre routes.

AlekSmart

Irish Steve wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that the 109 should start and finish at at Clonee, although it has possibilities, I am suggesting that anyone that wants a stop between Clonee and Busaras should be transferred from the 109 at Clonee and use either the 105 or DB services for places like Blanchardstown, or Phibsboro, or whatever, and that the 109 should run non stop from Clonee to Busaras via DPT. The 105 would be well capable of providing extra capacity from Clonee, if timetabled accordingly. it might also need some extra capacity on DB, but not much, if the comments here are anything to go by, the majority of passengers on the 109 seem to be boarding at Busaras, with very few being picked up or dropped at intermediate stops between Busaras and Clonee.

With the right feeders from Clonee to other areas of the city, it might even attract more passengers to the 109 from further out. If the 105 also went into Clonee and also more of the 105's served Ashbourne, and maybe even Dunshaughlin, it might even make it easier for people that live in those areas to be able to commute to places like Tallaght or Sandyford, if the right services were run from Clonee, which again would reduce the pressure on the city centre routes.

An excellent post,with several very worthwhile "Seed" ideas.
The mention of such exotic locations such as Tallaght and Sandyford brings the 109 debate into totally new territory,yet in 21st Century Dublin,we still regard a seamless journey between these places and Navan,as the stuff of dreams.

Everything is there to facilitate this type of operation,we have vehicles,staff,customers and infrastructure....yet we constantly come face to face with that age old Irish issue....INERTIA.

It beggars belief that Bus Eireann,the NTA,the RSA and Minister for Transport together,cannot get their marketing focus on the huge potential available to make Public Transport attractive and viable even on a partial basis,to the thousands of Private Car owners and users who go to make the N3 corridor,Dublins only at-capacity route.

The 109 route's focus should be clearly redrawn to it's most appropriate NAVAN-CAVAN-DUBLIN being allocated the resources necessary to function.

Reading through this thread every day is really a thoroughly depressing outline of why we needed a Bail-Out in the first place...our National Inability to THINK !!!!

Copyerselveson

AlekSmart wrote: »

An excellent post,with several very worthwhile "Seed" ideas.
The mention of such exotic locations such as Tallaght and Sandyford brings the 109 debate into totally new territory,yet in 21st Century Dublin,we still regard a seamless journey between these places and Navan,as the stuff of dreams.

Everything is there to facilitate this type of operation,we have vehicles,staff,customers and infrastructure....yet we constantly come face to face with that age old Irish issue....INERTIA.

It beggars belief that Bus Eireann,the NTA,the RSA and Minister for Transport together,cannot get their marketing focus on the huge potential available to make Public Transport attractive and viable even on a partial basis,to the thousands of Private Car owners and users who go to make the N3 corridor,Dublins only at-capacity route.

The 109 route's focus should be clearly redrawn to it's most appropriate NAVAN-CAVAN-DUBLIN being allocated the resources necessary to function.

Reading through this thread every day is really a thoroughly depressing outline of why we needed a Bail-Out in the first place...our National Inability to THINK !!!!

Agreed. Is the Pace-Navan line completely dead at this stage?

horseburger

Irish Steve wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that the 109 should start and finish at at Clonee, although it has possibilities, I am suggesting that anyone that wants a stop between Clonee and Busaras should be transferred from the 109 at Clonee and use either the 105 or DB services for places like Blanchardstown, or Phibsboro, or whatever, and that the 109 should run non stop from Clonee to Busaras via DPT. The 105 would be well capable of providing extra capacity from Clonee, if timetabled accordingly. it might also need some extra capacity on DB, but not much, if the comments here are anything to go by, the majority of passengers on the 109 seem to be boarding at Busaras, with very few being picked up or dropped at intermediate stops between Busaras and Clonee.

With the right feeders from Clonee to other areas of the city, it might even attract more passengers to the 109 from further out. If the 105 also went into Clonee and also more of the 105's served Ashbourne, and maybe even Dunshaughlin, it might even make it easier for people that live in those areas to be able to commute to places like Tallaght or Sandyford, if the right services were run from Clonee, which again would reduce the pressure on the city centre routes.

Sorry about that, I misunderstood what you were saying. I had thought you were suggesting the Clonee would be the last stop for the 109.:o

But with regard to the intermediate stops, it is very hard to please everyone. I can understand Bus Éireann stopping at the various points, for example the stops in between Navan and Dunshaughlin like at Ross Cross, Garlow Cross, Lismullin, and at the stops at Cabra, the Mater Hospital and Phibsboro Church.

Perhaps Bus Eireann's view may be that, while it may occur that a handful of people get collected at these stops on each bus, perhaps they get quite a number of passengers boarding the bus at these stops throughout the whole day , to merit using the stops.

On this discussion on the 109 service, people who use the bus from Virginia and Cavan have expressed unhappiness with 109 buses they get going through Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin, but when another company recently tried a service from Cavan and Virginia to Dublin avoiding Navan and Kells and Dunshaughlin, it lasted one month, which would suggest that it didn't get enough passengers without the three towns, to sustain the service.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057063976&page=3

Other people who get the 109 service from Navan to Dublin are unhappy with the bus going through Dunshaughlin, Blanchardstown Shopping Centre and Phibsboro, arguing that it only picks up a handful of people there.

But I guess that Bus Éireann go through Dunshaughlin and Blancharstown Shopping Centre, perhaps because they pick up enough passengers throughout the whole day to justify it?

Another issue is that Bus Éireann would be in competition with Sillan Tours in the morning heading to Dublin and then home again from between 4.30pm and 6.30pm for passengers at the stops from Dublin city centre, the Blanchardstown roundabout stop and at the stops between Dunshaughlin and Navan like Garlow Cross and Ross Cross.

So maybe that's another reason why they use those stops at the Mater and Phibsboro and Blanchardstown Shopping Centre and Dunshaughlin?

tom23

All points been made are valid and worth while discussing but really you can't remove a service if it's in place. Very simple solution needed here is more frequent express buses and when I day express it should be express not the BE interpretation of an express which still services the blanch slip road. It should not be stopping at blanch or any stop before phibsboro which is exceptable. At least 3/4 express buses at peak time would solve a lot of problems.

AlekSmart

tom23 wrote: »

All points been made are valid and worth while discussing but really you can't remove a service if it's in place. Very simple solution needed here is more frequent express buses and when I say express it should be Express not the BE interpretation of an express which still services the blanch slip road. It should not be stopping at blanch or any stop before phibsboro which is exceptable. At least 3/4 express buses at peak time would solve a lot of problems.

Tom23 raises a VERY pertinent point here,relevant to both BE and BAC.
Neither company have ever fully understood or had much grá for the Expess concept.

If we are honest about it,the only true Express implimentation was BAC's Nite-Link,which is perhaps the most innapropriate type of service for it.

All other attempts from BAC may well have started out well,but a phone call virtually guaranteed a complainant a newly added Stop to any "X" route....with the result that most Expresso's flail around in some netherworld attempting to serve all,yet actually serving few...:o

In the BE case,even the Expressway concept itself never quite managed to be fast or direct enough to merit the tag...and it's not exactly looking like it ever will now ?

foggy_lad

horseburger wrote: »

Perhaps Bus Eireann's view may be that, while it may occur that a handful of people get collected at these stops on each bus, perhaps they get quite a number of passengers boarding the bus at these stops throughout the whole day , to merit using the stops.

The question really should be are the few people served by these stops at the Meyer etc worth the huge costs associated with driving so many large vehicles through the city centre especially during peak times, driver wages diesel as well as needing extra drivers must be taken into account. I would think if a route existed elsewhere with so few passengers as the 109 out to clonee it would be cut altogether or cut to a couple of times a day.

foggy_lad

tom23 wrote: »

All points been made are valid and worth while discussing but really you can't remove a service if it's in place. Very simple solution needed here is more frequent express buses and when I day express it should be express not the BE interpretation of an express which still services the blanch slip road. It should not be stopping at blanch or any stop before phibsboro which is exceptable. At least 3/4 express buses at peak time would solve a lot of problems.

The 109 is a commuter route so having express buses would be limited to peak times and operated on a limited stop basis but having services operate through Cabra and to the mater hospital is just wasting tons of money in diesel and drivers hours.

Why can't the service be cut back if not being utilised? If there are only a few people using the stops out to Clonee then they should be cut and let Dublin bus take them on.

horseburger

foggy_lad wrote: »

The question really should be are the few people served by these stops at the Meyer etc worth the huge costs associated with driving so many large vehicles through the city centre especially during peak times, driver wages diesel as well as needing extra drivers must be taken into account. I would think if a route existed elsewhere with so few passengers as the 109 out to clonee it would be cut altogether or cut to a couple of times a day.

Do you know if the heavy traffic going out through Phibsboro and Cabra in the early evenings could be dealt with in any way. It wouldn't be so bad going that route and wouldn't take anywhere near as long.

For example any of the buses later on take only a few minutes to get to Phibsboro church from Bus Aras.

When people call for more express buses from Dublin to Navan home in the evening, I wonder that, to make the extra buses at that time worthwhile for Bus Éireann, considering fuel costs, perhaps it might need to be shown that these extra buses could be used for a return journey back to Dublin from Navan, when they arrive there.

It has been highlighted here that non express buses that leave in the evening are not full leaving Bus Aras, but these buses cover the other towns and stops, and as far as I know, are the same buses used for return journeys from Kells and Cavan back to Dublin, later in the evenings.

For example, I know that the 1.30pm bus that leaves Dublin for Navan, does a return journey from Navan at 2.55pm.

So I guess if there are to be more expresses from Dublin to Navan in the evening, it might need to be shown that these buses could be used for a journey back, to make the cost of running it worthwhile?

But there is already a very good frequent service in the evenings to Dublin, of 109 buses coming from Cavan on the hour and 109s that start in Kells at 15 minutes past the hour.

tom23

foggy_lad wrote: »

The 109 is a commuter route so having express buses would be limited to peak times and operated on a limited stop basis but having services operate through Cabra and to the mater hospital is just wasting tons of money in diesel and drivers hours.

Why can't the service be cut back if not being utilised? If there are only a few people using the stops out to Clonee then they should be cut and let Dublin bus take them on.

That won't happen in this lifetime or the next. That would dictate scaling back services, there would be uproar. And in any case I am not looking to do that. There still has to be a service going up Phibsboro / Cabra / Blanch.

My point is that if you want to promote public transport this Express Bus concept and the 1 billion euro road link to Dublin is the best way to do it. Less buses going through Phibs in the evening and morning time.

Detailed Research to determine users habits or potential to change to these more frequent Express buses is whats needed. Seriously they put the worse bus imaginable on the 5:30 and people till wait up to 30 minutes to get on.

Imagine if one of the newer buses was being used? An advertising campaign showing the merits of this service along with the promotion of integrated ticketing and number would grow. The business is there.

Let the slow coach do its 90 minute trips and the Express do its thing.

foggy_lad

My point was that there is not enough demand for the 109 service from the mater and Cabra/Phibsboro stops so the number of services should be restricted to one bus each way per hour at peak and every two hours off peak, all other buses should go non stop to clonee outbound.

Also there is no need for extra services but the buses that are there could be better utilised. Make sure all peak time buses are LD's and keep the smaller coaches for off peak services, do not use speed limited double deck city buses on the 109, keep them for the 103/105, as nobody wants to be going along at 65kph when they should/could be travelling at 100.

horseburger

foggy_lad wrote: »

My point was that there is not enough demand for the 109 service from the mater and Cabra/Phibsboro stops so the number of services should be restricted to one bus each way per hour at peak and every two hours off peak, all other buses should go non stop to clonee outbound.

Also there is no need for extra services but the buses that are there could be better utilised. Make sure all peak time buses are LD's and keep the smaller coaches for off peak services, do not use speed limited double deck city buses on the 109, keep them for the 103/105, as nobody wants to be going along at 65kph when they should/could be travelling at 100.

Edit: It was argued here recently that Bus Éireann should have used a double decker buses on the 6.30pm express route from Bus Aras to Navan because the bus that was used was full.

(see post 607 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88728925&postcount=607

It had been emphasised that a larger bus, which was not full, had left - as scheduled - at 6.15pm. The suggestion was, why wasn't this larger bus used for the 6.30pm express, to accommodate everyone wishing to go to Navan.

Edit: So if they use the larger double deck bus on the express route to take the extra people who wanted to take the express to Navan, and it doesn't get down to Navan as quick because it may be more speed limited than a single deck bus, then perhaps people will still be unhappy with the service?

Correction: foggy_lad has since answered my query about the question of speed limits on the two types of double deckers emphasising that the type of double deckers used on the 103s and 105 have a lower speed limit than the other large type. I didn't previously realise that the large double deckers and single deckers have the same limit, I had assumed all the double deckers had a stricter limit than the single decker.

tom23

horseburger wrote: »

It was argued here recently that Bus Éireann should have used one of these buses on the 6.30pm express route from Bus Aras to Navan because the bus that was used was full.

(see post 607 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88728925&postcount=607

It had been emphasised that a larger bus, which was not full, had left - as scheduled - at 6.15pm. The suggestion was, why wasn't this larger bus used for the 6.30pm express, to accommodate everyone wishing to go to Navan.

So if they use the larger double deck bus on the express route to take the extra people who wanted to take the express to Navan, and it doesn't get down to Navan as quick because it is speed limited, then perhaps people will still be unhappy with the service?

A wee bit pedantic. There is a big demand for the 5:30 / 6:30. The Ld's are perfect for this demand regardless if they are going 80 or 100 as long as the door shuts. If the ****box double decker pre Celtic tiger bus can get one home ya just under an hour using m3 and PT well the Ld's will aswell.

horseburger

tom23 wrote: »

A wee bit pedantic. There is a big demand for the 5:30 / 6:30. The Ld's are perfect for this demand regardless if they are going 80 or 100 as long as the door shuts. If the ****box double decker pre Celtic tiger bus can get one home ya just under an hour using m3 and PT well the Ld's will aswell.

hi tom23

I wasn't arguing against using the types of buses used on any of the specific services, nor was I complaining about how long either type bus takes to get to Navan.

Edited sentence: I was pointing out that one person recommended against using the type of double decker bus that has a limit of 65 kph for the express service to Navan because it is speed limited and would take longer than the single deck bus.

But someone else was saying that the double deck type of bus could be used to accommodate the number of passengers wishing to get to Navan on the express service at 6.30, if there are more passengers than would fill a single deck bus.

I know there is a big demand for the express buses to Navan, but if the double decker was used, to accommodate the extra number of people, they would complain, if it took longer than the single deck bus to get to Navan.

Or if it wasn't used and if the single deck bus is used and it becomes full, people for Navan would be unhappy, if instead, they had to get the bus that goes through Blanchardstown and Dunshaughlin.

If a single deck express service at 5.30pm and 6.30pm fills to capacity, is Bus Éireann expected to make a second express bus available immediately for the extra passengers, even if there isn't enough people to fill that second bus?

Is there an extra driver available at that time to run a second express bus at 5.30pm and 6.30pm?

If they made the second bus available for the additional passengers at both 5.30pm and 6.30pm, is there a return journey available for it to make when it arrives in Navan, from Navan back to Dublin, to merit going there and justify the cost?

I mentioned in an earlier post that there is already a great service from Cavan, Kells and Navan to Dublin in the evenings, - on the hour from Cavan and every half hour from Kells and Navan, so there may not be any available journey for a second express bus from Dublin at 5.30pm and 6.30pm to do a return journey from Navan back to Dublin, that might help justify going to Navan as a spare second express journey from Dublin.

It proves that no matter what alterations Bus Éireann make, someone will be unhappy with some aspect of the service.

Irish Steve

I think a few people have missed a point I was making.

From Busaras to Fairyhouse cross, there are 2 routes that run at pretty much the same time, and the same route, the 105, and the 109. OK, to split hairs, the 105 goes from Beresford place, 100 mtrs from Busaras, but to all intents and purposes, the 105 & 109 could be the 109 and the 109B, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

Given that the 109 goes a lot further out than the 105, it would make a lot of sense for both services to call at Clonee, with the timings set up in such a way that a 105 from town arrives at Clonee 5 minutes or so before a 109 that would come from Busaras to Clonee non stop via DPT. In the same vein, set it up that there are 105's to tie in with 109's inbound, so there is not a significant delay at Clonee, and allow interchange between the 2 services. So, someone from Navan for Blanchardstown changes at Clonee, and the same for someone coming from the Mater, or Phibsboro, or Connolly Hospital ( Maybe DB should cover that link to clonee, but it needs to be done), the main thing being that as long as the timings are sensible, and maybe not all 109's need a 105 feeder, that's something that could be analysed relatively easily, the plus should be that the 109 service will be quicker overall than it is at present, and the customers that want to get to intermediate points can still do so with minimum inconvenience, and the majority get a better service. That's effectively not changing the archaic DB/BE relationship. If it was done properly, there would be an interchange option at CLonee to DB as well as BE, with other areas such as Liffey Valley, Red Cow area, Tallaght, and Sandyford all being areas that have significant employment, so deserving of a decent public transport service.

Another option that might be worth exploring, depending on the junction structure, would be an M50 feeder service that would call at stops on each intersection, with the radial routes also stopping at the same stops. Might open up all sorts of options, especially for the large industrial estates outside the M50 ring, getting to them from another area that's outside the M50 at present is almost impossible by public transport in a sensible time frame at present. Some of the junctions on the M50 would not work well, the N2 at Finglas being an example, the N7 at Red Cow is another, but it has possibilities.

to take that further, there's a case to be made for having a 105A and 105B, the A would go from Fairyhouse Cross to Ratoath, (the present route) and then on to Ashbourne, possibly via Curragha, maybe Tayto park, and the 105B would go via Dunshaughlin to Ratoath and then on to Ashbourne on the present route, and then maybe the 109's should use the M3 as far as Dunshauglin.

I've watched the way that the BE network has (supposedly) evolved over the last 20 years, and it's been a disgrace, when the 109A first started, it came off the N3 at Dunshaughlin, came through Ratoath, and then avoided the second largest town in Meath at Ashbourne. What eejit came up with that concept? At least they've changed that, but in terms of the way that BE responds to the needs of a community, they are very slow and not at all proactive, so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that it's taking for ever to change things to work in a customer friendly way.

horseburger

Irish Steve wrote: »

I think a few people have missed a point I was making.

From Busaras to Fairyhouse cross, there are 2 routes that run at pretty much the same time, and the same route, the 105, and the 109. OK, to split hairs, the 105 goes from Beresford place, 100 mtrs from Busaras, but to all intents and purposes, the 105 & 109 could be the 109 and the 109B, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

Given that the 109 goes a lot further out than the 105, it would make a lot of sense for both services to call at Clonee, with the timings set up in such a way that a 105 from town arrives at Clonee 5 minutes or so before a 109 that would come from Busaras to Clonee non stop via DPT. In the same vein, set it up that there are 105's to tie in with 109's inbound, so there is not a significant delay at Clonee, and allow interchange between the 2 services. So, someone from Navan for Blanchardstown changes at Clonee, and the same for someone coming from the Mater, or Phibsboro, or Connolly Hospital ( Maybe DB should cover that link to clonee, but it needs to be done), the main thing being that as long as the timings are sensible, and maybe not all 109's need a 105 feeder, that's something that could be analysed relatively easily, the plus should be that the 109 service will be quicker overall than it is at present, and the customers that want to get to intermediate points can still do so with minimum inconvenience, and the majority get a better service. That's effectively not changing the archaic DB/BE relationship. If it was done properly, there would be an interchange option at CLonee to DB as well as BE, with other areas such as Liffey Valley, Red Cow area, Tallaght, and Sandyford all being areas that have significant employment, so deserving of a decent public transport service.

Another option that might be worth exploring, depending on the junction structure, would be an M50 feeder service that would call at stops on each intersection, with the radial routes also stopping at the same stops. Might open up all sorts of options, especially for the large industrial estates outside the M50 ring, getting to them from another area that's outside the M50 at present is almost impossible by public transport in a sensible time frame at present. Some of the junctions on the M50 would not work well, the N2 at Finglas being an example, the N7 at Red Cow is another, but it has possibilities.

to take that further, there's a case to be made for having a 105A and 105B, the A would go from Fairyhouse Cross to Ratoath, (the present route) and then on to Ashbourne, possibly via Curragha, maybe Tayto park, and the 105B would go via Dunshaughlin to Ratoath and then on to Ashbourne on the present route, and then maybe the 109's should use the M3 as far as Dunshauglin.

I've watched the way that the BE network has (supposedly) evolved over the last 20 years, and it's been a disgrace, when the 109A first started, it came off the N3 at Dunshaughlin, came through Ratoath, and then avoided the second largest town in Meath at Ashbourne. What eejit came up with that concept? At least they've changed that, but in terms of the way that BE responds to the needs of a community, they are very slow and not at all proactive, so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that it's taking for ever to change things to work in a customer friendly way.

You should send in your suggestions to the National Transport Authority.

They would be responsive and would look into it.

My impression of some people on this forum, (not you), is that they have too aggressive an attitude towards Bus Éireann and the NTA, that if this same negativity comes across in any correspondence they send in to both bodies, it might result in those two bodies not being very responsive to their queries.