The future of Ireland

MungBean

smurphy29 wrote: »

I find the witch-hunt against D'arcy here to be bizarre. Certainly, he's a guy coming to the end of his career, but this castigating of him is ridiculous. In the Aussie and Italy games he played well.

I think a key component that people are overlooking is a new backs coach. The Leinster backline looked jaded and short of ideas in Cheika's last season, but was totally reinvogorated when Schmidt came in. All the lads in our backline are good players, and the likes of Trimble, Fitz, McFadden and Spence would all be able to perform well there. They need a new coach with some new ideas to spark them into life.

As for the case against Earls; he is a weak defender, but his value is clear: he is by a mile our best finisher. Trimble and Fitzgerald are better defenders but Earls' ability to get over the whitewash in tight situations is gamechanging. Witness his finishes in the corner against Russia and Wales. Trimble and Luke's try counts are much lower than Earls.

Means absolutely nothing. A wingers job isnt to solely score tries. Earls might be a better finisher but Trimble is a better player. Earls's talent come into their own when we have possession and an overlap. Trimble's talents come into their own in attacking with little room, defending, running support lines, breaking the line, offloading to trailer runners AND attacking an overlap.

Earls is a good player but he's finishing and try count dont matter a crap if against tough opposition as he's a player that needs other to make the room for him and set him up. Trimble and Fitz are proper wingers, the reason their try counts are not as high is because they get involved in creating opportunities rather than waiting for them. Every time Earls plays and the ball goes wide Earls is there. With Trimble or Fitz thats not always the case as they come in to clear rucks, help retain possession and run alternate lines cutting in towards the centre.

When a winger has a higher work rate his try count wont be as high. Look at Bowe, less tries that Earls but by far a better winger with a much much higher work rate.

I'm not anti Earls but I just dont understand people using his finishing and try count as a reason he's a better choice than others despite those qualities not contributing to tough games. He looks good only against weaker opposition, Fitz was playing some terrible rugby so I have no issue with him being left out. But Trimble was the form back going into the competition while Earls had confidence issues and seemed to be off form. Yet despite all that he's nailed to the 11 spot and Trimble is ignored. That decision by Kidney and the fact that he played Murray in the biggest match despite him not being ready or having shown anything to remotely suggest he was ready sows that the Irish plan was to gamble and nothing else. Gamble on Earls finding form and gamble on Murray being a great SH.

Ignore great players like Reddan, Boss and Trimble to have a gamble that never looked likely to pay off. I just dont understand it.

ambid

There are a lot of guys on here suggesting Tuohy come into the Ireland team. I wonder if that works as a potential partnership with POC.

Most simply, most second row partnerships seem to have a worker and a lineout athlete - so I'm thinking O'Callaghan-O'Connell; Botha-Matfield; Kennedy-Casey. I wonder if Tuohy and O'Connell are similar type players - both the lineout athlete rather than worker type, so I wonder if the partnership would work.

This is a genuine question. I'm by no means a forward or second row expert so am interested in other opinions on this. Are Tuohy and O'Connell too similar to work as a partnership?

Podge_irl

I wouldn't have thought Touhy lacks and graft and he'd bring some real carrying grunt to the second row. He got injured at some unfortunate times.

wixfjord

I've actually been very impressed with Donnacha Ryan in this WC.
He's looked incredibly athletic, good ball carrying and might be a good option ahead of DOC imo.

If only he was 4 years younger.

maddness

I wonder why Fergus McFadden barely got a look in?

Fireball07

wixfjord wrote: »

I've actually been very impressed with Donnacha Ryan in this WC.
He's looked incredibly athletic, good ball carrying and might be a good option ahead of DOC imo.

If only he was 4 years younger.

Me too tbh. He was impressive in every game, even in the few minutes against Wales, I thought he looked good.

Of course I think DOC had a good world cup too...

maddness wrote: »

I wonder why Fergus McFadden barely got a look in?

It might be a bit harsh on him but Kidney obviously decided that BOD and D'Arcy were going to be the centres and he didn't do himself a lot of favours with that horrible attempt of a tackle against Russia even though he did okay on the day. Bowe always gets picked ahead of him, Trimble was in great form and once Earls scored 2 tries against Russia, he was never going to be dropped.

seanin4711

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

2 more years of Deccie is the future. Thank god he got the new contract or we'd be searching for a coach right now.:)

have you checked the results since the jammy grand slam win?I think he and his overpaid support staff should be gone after that Wales game.
Mark my words we wont win the triple crown next 6nations ( a minimum target for years)
Kidney is as conservative as EOS.
VERY slow in bringing players through(should have been done pre RWC autumn internationals).
What is the average age of our staring XV?
too old is the answer!
Irish rugby needs a shot in the arm and I really don't believe Kidney and Co. are not the answer.
who then?
why not ask Jake White?
That's my two cents anyway
I was so disgusted in the performance or lack thereof that I purposely didn't see any other rugby last weekend!

twinytwo

We need to get a coach and staff who are not affiliated to any club... but we also need the IRFU to stay the **** out of it, and let the coach do his job.

Hagz

wixfjord wrote: »

I've actually been very impressed with Donnacha Ryan in this WC.
He's looked incredibly athletic, good ball carrying and might be a good option ahead of DOC imo.

If only he was 4 years younger.

Agree, I must admit I thought nothing of him, but I think what he needed was somebody to have a bit of faith in him and give him the games. I would have no qualms about him in our squad.

jacothelad wrote: »

McGrath?

Uh huh

Fireball07 wrote: »

Oh, and I think D'Arcy is good enough, but do you not think the reasoning applied to DOC being left out could not be applied to him too? But if Kidney is still in charge, then I'd expect DOC, D'Arcy, TOL and even David Wallace to still be picked. Not ideal, now what I want but it could happen.

Yeh you're right there. I just wrote BOD, and D'arcy came naturally after. It's unfortunate but I don't really know what he has to offer now. Not sure Marshall would be there yet, Maybe bring in Cave. Thing is, although I like Cave, I just don't get the impression that he can be international class. Maybe I'm being harsh on him, he has been quite impressive.

dtpc191991

seanin4711 wrote: »

have you checked the results since the jammy grand slam win?I think he and his overpaid support staff should be gone after that Wales game.
Mark my words we wont win the triple crown next 6nations ( a minimum target for years)
Kidney is as conservative as EOS.
VERY slow in bringing players through(should have been done pre RWC autumn internationals).
What is the average age of our staring XV?
too old is the answer!
Irish rugby needs a shot in the arm and I really don't believe Kidney and Co. are not the answer.
who then?
why not ask Jake White?
That's my two cents anyway
I was so disgusted in the performance or lack thereof that I purposely didn't see any other rugby last weekend!

Unfortunately Jake White has made it pretty clear that he wants the England job first and foremost. With the likelihood of Johnson getting the sack, if it comes down to a straight choice between coaching us and England he would go for England.

trackguy

If we accept that the 'golden generation' has come to a natural end (or is coming to an end) now is the time to re-build. Short term sacrifice for long term gain.

Props
Hagan to be developed as Ross' understudy. We need a loosehead to keep Healy on his toes. Who do ppl see as the best young loosehead?

Hooker

Cronin to be given plenty of game-time at provincial and then, international level. Strauss becomes an option soon. A young 3rd choice to be brought into training squads. Varley is not going to be international class.

2nd Row
KML to be developed as dynamic 2nd row. Hopefully, Tuohy can stay injury free as he is a very dynamic player for his position. Ian Nagle to be promoted at Munster. Cullen will retire from internationals (I'm almost certain of this. He has a book coming out which is probably not going to be kind to Kidney)

Back Row
Plenty of riches here. Who are the most promising back row's at Munster? POM? Ryan and Ruddock at Leinster have huge potential. Leamy and Jennings should be dispensed with (as harsh as that sounds).

Scrum Half
Murray needs time. He is not the answer at the moment. Reddan still has something to offer. Murray and Reddan offer a good stylke contrast for now. Other prospects are a bit off at the moment.

Fly Half
ROG has got some awful abuse the last few days. I hope he keeps going for a year or two. Keatley is not ready imo for international rugby. ROG can keep pushing Sexton at international level and help Keatley at provincial.

Wing
Earls, Trimble and Bowe are all good options, obviously. Craig Gilroy looks like a potentially great player. Conway, D Kearney are all long term prospects. Carr is a current option (in a parallel universe)

Centre
I hope BOD keeps going. I think the Lions 2013 has been stated as an intention of his. Darcy has had a very, very poor season. He does not seem capable at this level anymore. We are woefully short of options at centre. Enter Luke Fitz. I honestly feel this is where he can make his name, at 12. He has looked promising there in recent weeks. He needs to nail down a spot too. Nevin Spence, Eoin Griffin, Danny Barnes are all very good prospects. Spence is ready now on current eveidence.

Full-Back
R Kearney had plenty of years left obviously. Felix Jones could be a great player, fitness permitting. We have a few other players who can fill in here if required.

Sorry if I'm Leinster-centric, its just I know more of the young players. I'd love to hear suggestions from Munster, Connacht and Ulster fans also.