The future of Ireland

08-10-2011 8:01am #1

So what's next for Ireland?I presume rog,bod etc. Will retirements etc.

Guy:Incognito · 08-10-2011 8:03am

2 more years of Deccie is the future. Thank god he got the new contract or we'd be searching for a coach right now.:)

questionmark? · 08-10-2011 8:06am

Time to redevelop the squad with a focus on bringing younger players through. Next years six nations will be all about the new players with a focus on winning it in three years to prepare for the next world cup.

08-10-2011 8:07am

Well, we currently have a lot of exciting talent coming through the ranks at 3 of our Provinces academies. There's players 19/20 years old already playing professional rugby that will be challenging for a spot in the 2015 squad.

Connacht's underage teams (not academy yet) have been doing spectacularly too, so there's definitely a good chance that we'll have 4 performing academies running in 3/4 years to increase the "conveyor belt" system of players that we need to see coming through.

With regards to probably retirements etc, the places we're really very thin is at second row and probably first centre.

Nagle at Munster is going to make it, Toner @Leinster I'm not so certain of. Most if not all other teams have ageing/aged second rows playing consistently.
First centre is an interesting one, at present Fitzgerald is playing 12 and doing well for Leinster, while Spence, Whitaker and Cave (all at Ulster) have all had stints at 12, but are more likely to wear 13 imo.

It's going to be an interesting few years for squad development. So many of our most important players are either really young, or getting on. The mix of seniority and youth will be fun to see.

NoelJ · 08-10-2011 8:07am

1 healy 24 = grand for years
2 best 29 = replaceable
3 ross 31 = need to find someone
4 doc old = need to find
5 poc old = need to find
6 ferris 26
7 sob 24
8 heaslip 27
9 murray young
10 o gara old = sexton
11 earls 22
12 darce old = mcfadden
13 bod old = need to find someone
14 bowe 27
15 kearney 25

Realistically its only 4 players we need to replace. Not that much of a golden generation in my opinion.

Samich · 08-10-2011 8:07am

Need to get rid of D'arcy, BOD can't break the line anymore either unfortunately

We need a big first centre and a fast 2nd centre. Trimble can play 13 for me anyways. Earls and Bowe are fine, Kearney is great under the high ball. Good out half in Sexton.

Wouldn't mind O Brien at 8 and finding a Pocock type player from somewhere. O Callaghan is past it too. Front row is sound, Healy is still young for a front row prop.

08-10-2011 8:09am

Jamie Hagan is future Irish tighthead almost certainly imo

tolosenc · 08-10-2011 9:14am

I want to see the following 22 during the 6 Nations, hopefully with Mallett at the helm...

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Hagan
4. Tuohy
5. McCarthy
6. Ruddock
7. Dom Ryan
8. O'Brien

9. Reddan
10. Sexton

11. Carr
12. Fitzgerald
13. Spence
14. Bowe

15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Archer
18. POC
19. Heaslip
20. Marshall
21. Humphreys
22. O'Driscoll

NoelJ · 08-10-2011 9:15am

tolosenc wrote: »

I want to see the following 22 during the 6 Nations, hopefully with Mallett at the helm...

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Hagan
4. Tuohy
5. McCarthy
6. Ruddock
7. Dom Ryan
8. O'Brien

9. Reddan
10. Sexton

11. Carr
12. Fitzgerald
13. Spence
14. Bowe

15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Archer
18. POC
19. Heaslip
20. Marshall
21. Humphreys
22. O'Driscoll

Why not just win the next two years and then for the two years after start building for the world cup. I'm sure a few of the older lads want another shot at a grand slam.

tolosenc · 08-10-2011 9:20am

NoelJ wrote: »

Why not just win the next two years and then for the two years after start building for the world cup. I'm sure a few of the older lads want another shot at a grand slam.

The longer the squad is playing together, the better. We won't win anything in the next 2 years.

Kayless · 08-10-2011 9:21am

NoelJ wrote: »

Why not just win the next two years and then for the two years after start building for the world cup. I'm sure a few of the older lads want another shot at a grand slam.

After today, I don't think that's going to happen if Wales play like this in the 6 nations they will take our traditional spot as 3rd (and maybe even win) we need the younger guys in now getting experience for the next world cup

NoelJ · 08-10-2011 9:24am

Kayless wrote: »

After today, I don't think that's going to happen if Wales play like this in the 6 nations they will take our traditional spot as 3rd (and maybe even win) we need the younger guys in now getting experience for the next world cup

50% of the squad will still be there next world cup I'd say. 2 years international experience is good. If they're good enough to take over the older players position they'll be given the opportunity. Think we should continue with the same squad for at least this years. You dont need 4 years international experience.

profitius · 08-10-2011 9:26am

Luke Marshall, JJ Hanrahan, Tiernan O'Halloran, Peter O'Mahony, Jamie Hagan, Andrew Conway, Graig Gilroy etc

We'll have a much stronger squad in the next world cup.

08-10-2011 9:26am

NoelJ wrote: »

50% of the squad will still be there next world cup I'd say. 2 years international experience is good. If they're good enough to take over the older players position they'll be given the opportunity. Think we should continue with the same squad for at least this years. You dont need 4 years international experience.

he's included the 50% of the squad that'll still be there...

NoelJ · 08-10-2011 9:27am

profitius wrote: »

Luke Marshall, JJ Hanrahan, Tiernan O'Halloran, Peter O'Mahony, Jamie Hagan, Andrew Conway, Graig Gilroy etc

We'll have a much stronger squad in the next world cup.

Wouldn't be counting my eggs before they hatched. Good potential but lots of players have it and dont make it.

profitius · 08-10-2011 9:28am

NoelJ wrote: »

Wouldn't be counting my eggs before they hatched. Good potential but lots of players have it and dont make it.

I agree. Some of those won't make it but others will. We're producing more quality and quantity of players these days.

NoelJ · 08-10-2011 9:30am

profitius wrote: »

I agree. Some of those won't make it but others will. We're producing more quality and quantity of players these days.

I think everyone is that's the problem. Other teams are getting stronger too. Italy will be a good side next world cup I think.

marco_polo · 08-10-2011 9:35am

I think the future is very bright, sure in a couple of postions there may not be an immediate replacement available (to drop straight into test level) but there is a underlying pool of young talent that is arguably better than we have ever had before.

To put it this way I don't think the golden generation tag will last too long

totallegend · 08-10-2011 9:37am

NoelJ wrote: »

Why not just win the next two years and then for the two years after start building for the world cup. I'm sure a few of the older lads want another shot at a grand slam.

That is the exact opposite of what we should do. We have a major problem with lack of depth in that squad and we need to start blooding younger players NOW, not when Kidney has restored his reputation a bit.

We must include the following at some stage in the Six Nations:
Jamie Hagan
Sean Cronin - to get a start for once
Dan Tuohy or any second-row under the age of 27 (@tolosenc, McCarthy is 30)
Dom Ryan
Nevin Spence

We have to start planning for the next world cup now.

profitius · 08-10-2011 9:41am

totallegend wrote: »

That is the exact opposite of what we should do. We have a major problem with lack of depth in that squad and we need to start blooding younger players NOW, not when Kidney has restored his reputation a bit.

We must include the following at some stage in the Six Nations:
Jamie Hagan
Sean Cronin - to get a start for once
Dan Tuohy or any second-row under the age of 27 (@tolosenc, McCarthy is 30)
Dom Ryan
Nevin Spence

We have to start planning for the next world cup now.

+1

We have to stop being so conservative and start taking chances with playing style and team selection.

tomegan2010 · 08-10-2011 9:43am

You will have the retirements from the likes of Roge BOD, O'Connell but in fairness those boys have put there bodies in serious hardship for their country through their carrer. They can be proud what they done in this world cup. The put down some big teams. Declan said after todays game he is sorry for letting down the fans. In my opinion the didn't do that. What do other people think? I'm very proud of them lads. Just let's work on the next few years at getting our young team raedy.
Fair play to you lads.

MoneyMilo · 08-10-2011 9:47am

Tuohy should've been at the World Cup. He's been playing very well for Ulster and can carry a lot better than DOC or POC.

Gilroy, Spence, Hagan, Carr, Conway should all be involved for 6 nations

tolosenc · 08-10-2011 9:47am

totallegend wrote: »

@tolosenc, McCarthy is 30

Seriously? I thought he was 25 or so?

If so, then he's not the man for the job.

McLoughlin is worth a shot.

profitius · 08-10-2011 9:48am

I'd like POC and BOD to stay for another while. They're class players and playing well still.

totallegend · 08-10-2011 9:49am

tolosenc wrote: »

Seriously? I thought he was 25 or so?

If so, then he's not the man for the job.

29, according to http://www.connachtrugby.ie/2009012781740/player-profile-michael-mccarthy

molloyjh · 08-10-2011 9:51am

There's precious little point in putting all our eggs into the one basket. The RWC is an incredibly difficult tournament to win and the chances of us doing so are stacked against us. We do need to look at building a squad, but more with the view of winning either the 2013 or 2014 6 Nations. And then maintaining a level of development that sees us competing at each 6 Nations and each RWC. The level of conservatism in Irish rugby needs to end and we need to be willing to try new talent early with a view to building a real squad with genuine options from 1 to 15.

marco_polo · 08-10-2011 9:55am

totallegend wrote: »

That is the exact opposite of what we should do. We have a major problem with lack of depth in that squad and we need to start blooding younger players NOW, not when Kidney has restored his reputation a bit.

We must include the following at some stage in the Six Nations:
Jamie Hagan
Sean Cronin - to get a start for once
Dan Tuohy or any second-row under the age of 27 (@tolosenc, McCarthy is 30)
Dom Ryan
Nevin Spence

We have to start planning for the next world cup now.

While there is no need to completely throw the baby out with the bathwater, I wholeheartedly agree that we need to be much more proactive in the blooding of players, up to now the default position is that inexperienced player is not up to it until 100% proven otherwise. Still thebest way to blood young player is with experience around them.

With Conor Murrays rise there are signs that this conservatism may be changing (ignoring whether or not one thinks that Reddan shouldactually have started).

Now there are probably a fair few of people who are probably not happy that DK will be the coach for at least another two years, but it is certain that he will be. Fundamentally he remains an very good coach and if he can also learn from his mistakes wrt giving younger player their chance when their time has clearly come I think the future (perhaps beyond the next six nations) is bright.

sportfanatic · 08-10-2011 9:55am

Part of the problem here is with the likes of:

Nagle- supposedly huge potential but will he be getting past DOC (and to a lesser extent D.Ryan) at Munster.

McFadden/ Carr/ Conway- Will they get his game in a HEC at Leinster? Darce, BOD, Kearney, Nacewa and Fitz will all be competing hard for game time.

Hagan- will he be he get games ahead of Ross at Leinster?

Cronin- will he be no1 at Leinster.

I know Leinster rotate, but still....

If these guys arent playing regularly then they cant really expect to be in the 6N Team?

I know you cant judge them on one game but the young Ulster lads look very ordinary last night against an Italian team (improving). These guys like Jackson, Marshall, Spence, and especially Gilroy have huge potential but arent ready yet. Not sure if they are even ready for HEC never mind 6N

molloyjh · 08-10-2011 9:59am

marco_polo wrote: »

With Conor Murrays rise there are signs that this conservatism may be changing (ignoring whether or not one thinks that Reddan shouldactually have started).

Murrays inclusion was a last minute nessecity. When it was obvious TOL shouldn't travel Kidney had no other real option. As for his selection today I personally never understood it. But like Ross and O'Brien he wouldn't have gotten a look in if Kidenys hand wasn't forced.

MoneyMilo · 08-10-2011 10:05am

sportfanatic wrote: »

Part of the problem here is with the likes of:

Nagle- supposedly huge potential but will he be getting past DOC (and to a lesser extent D.Ryan) at Munster.

McFadden/ Carr/ Conway- Will they get his game in a HEC at Leinster? Darce, BOD, Kearney, Nacewa and Fitz will all be competing hard for game time.

Hagan- will he be he get games ahead of Ross at Leinster?

Cronin- will he be no1 at Leinster.

I know Leinster rotate, but still....

If these guys arent playing regularly then they cant really expect to be in the 6N Team?

No, he won't. Strauss is way ahead of Cronin.

skregs · 08-10-2011 10:07am

When does Strauss become eligible?

The future of Ireland

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