The future of Ireland

Annabella1

People singing D'Arcy's praises after Oz and Italy games.He has always been a 'form' player throughout his career and I have little doubt he has few years left yet.
Jamie Roberts has been poor for much of the last 12 months and look at him now!

MungBean

molloyjh wrote: »

Oh for the love of God. Watch the try again. He pulled ROG back from the ruck and sent him in the direction of the blind-side. ROG then proceeded to dander over to the open-side behind him. I originally thought Darce was to blame but it's clear from the replay that he thought ROG was there - see 1:13 below.

Darcy pulled ROG back so he could take up position to defend off the ruck not indicate ROG defend the blind side, pushed POC along the line. The welsh then move to the open side and ROG followed as did Bowe. Darcy also followed which opened the gap. Darcy on the blind side of the ruck with the welsh all on the open side was the defence against Philips, regardless of who was behind him Philips was Darcy's man.

Give over with this "dander over to the open side" crap as if he had no clue what he was doing. The welsh moved over, the only person who could have gone down the blind side was Philips and Darcy was protecting off the side of the ruck. Darcy took a step in and Philips saw it.

I'm no coach but in that position whoever is protecting the blind side against the 9 is responsible. And that was Darcy. ROG would have been stupid to stand on the blind side facing nobody in case Philips got away from Darcy. He and Bowe did the right thing and swept across to where the Welsh were lining up for the attack. Had Darcy not moved in and opened the gap thats exactly what would have happened too.

Possibly just a lack of communication but the only thing I seen in that play that shouldnt have happened was Darcy stepping behind the ruck and exposing the blind side.

smurphy29

I find the witch-hunt against D'arcy here to be bizarre. Certainly, he's a guy coming to the end of his career, but this castigating of him is ridiculous. In the Aussie and Italy games he played well.

I think a key component that people are overlooking is a new backs coach. The Leinster backline looked jaded and short of ideas in Cheika's last season, but was totally reinvogorated when Schmidt came in. All the lads in our backline are good players, and the likes of Trimble, Fitz, McFadden and Spence would all be able to perform well there. They need a new coach with some new ideas to spark them into life.

As for the case against Earls; he is a weak defender, but his value is clear: he is by a mile our best finisher. Trimble and Fitzgerald are better defenders but Earls' ability to get over the whitewash in tight situations is gamechanging. Witness his finishes in the corner against Russia and Wales. Trimble and Luke's try counts are much lower than Earls.

padraig.od

smurphy29 wrote: »

I find the witch-hunt against D'arcy here to be bizarre. Certainly, he's a guy coming to the end of his career, but this castigating of him is ridiculous. In the Aussie and Italy games he played well.

I think a key component that people are overlooking is a new backs coach. The Leinster backline looked jaded and short of ideas in Cheika's last season, but was totally reinvogorated when Schmidt came in. All the lads in our backline are good players, and the likes of Trimble, Fitz, McFadden and Spence would all be able to perform well there. They need a new coach with some new ideas to spark them into life.

As for the case against Earls; he is a weak defender, but his value is clear: he is by a mile our best finisher. Trimble and Fitzgerald are better defenders but Earls' ability to get over the whitewash in tight situations is gamechanging. Witness his finishes in the corner against Russia and Wales. Trimble and Luke's try counts are much lower than Earls.

Thats a decent point, I don't know whether Trimble or Fitz would have scored that second half try against Wales. Having said that Trimble would have split Davies in 2 for their 3rd try.

molloyjh

MungBean wrote: »

Darcy pulled ROG back so he could take up position to defend off the ruck not indicate ROG defend the blind side, pushed POC along the line. The welsh then move to the open side and ROG followed as did Bowe. Darcy also followed which opened the gap. Darcy on the blind side of the ruck with the welsh all on the open side was the defence against Philips, regardless of who was behind him Philips was Darcy's man.

Give over with this "dander over to the open side" crap as if he had no clue what he was doing. The welsh moved over, the only person who could have gone down the blind side was Philips and Darcy was protecting off the side of the ruck. Darcy took a step in and Philips saw it.

I'm no coach but in that position whoever is protecting the blind side against the 9 is responsible. And that was Darcy. ROG would have been stupid to stand on the blind side facing nobody in case Philips got away from Darcy. He and Bowe did the right thing and swept across to where the Welsh were lining up for the attack. Had Darcy not moved in and opened the gap thats exactly what would have happened too.

Possibly just a lack of communication but the only thing I seen in that play that shouldnt have happened was Darcy stepping behind the ruck and exposing the blind side.

I'm not a coach and have never played either so I'll gladly stand corrected. I thought you needed 2 men on either side of the ruck? One for the pick and drive and one for the first receiver or breaking scrum half? And in this situation Darce was covering the former and we had no one covering the latter?

Hype710

Naturally people are still upset about the loss and an overreaction has ensued. We were beaten on the day by what was a fantastic Welsh performance, just like we had against Australia. I've no doubt if the game had been played ten times each team would have five wins.

The age profile of the team certainly needs to be looked at and there are a number of alterations that I'd like to see for the Six Nations, especially that some of the older back ups are overlooked in favour of younger, promising alternatives. We ought to try win the SN next year but a further goal has to be in the introduction of newer guys along side established ones.

I can't remember who said it but 'size is a skill' and we should be looking at bigger backs if they are available (although do not suggest James Downey) as I've felt for a long time that we have a very small backline with guys that struggle to break tackles. Spence and Morris come to mind but it is certainly something we lack.

In terms of personnel changes in the overall squad (40 or so) I'd like to see:

Prop:
McAllister for Horan
Hagan for Hayes/Buckley

Hooker:
Sherry for Flannery

Lock:
Tuohy for Cullen
Nagle for O' Driscoll

Back Row:
Ryan for Jennings
O' Mahony for Ronan
Ruddock for Muldoon/McLaughlin

Backs:
Keatley for Wallace
Spence for Duffy
Morris for G Murphy
Gilroy for Horgan
D Kearney for J Murphy
Carr for Hurley

tolosenc

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Most biased post I have (yes, me) ever seen on this board. It's the Irish team, not a revision of the Lulster team who opened the Aviva.

Reaction I wanted. Please learn from this.

Cpt_Blackbeard

tolosenc wrote: »

Reaction I wanted. Please learn from this.

Learn what exactly? That a post can be as one-eyed as possible, provided the bias is pro-Leinster most posters won't bat an eyelid? Can you think of the reaction I'd get if I excluded all the Leinster players I could from my preferred 6N squad? I get a barrage of replies if I say that ROG still has something to offer for example. Its in the discussion of the Irish team where the huge Leinster majority here, that hinders any decent discussion.

Fantastic idea to admit that you're a troll though. You'd hope the mods would follow due procedure.

yimrsg

I can't believe people are talking about jettisoning players from the squad, guys like Cullen, Jennings, Murray are first choices for their provinces or in the match day squads, the guys people are mentioning as inclusions are still rough around the edges and second choices. It was obvious that Murray needed more match time before the WC, the IRFU should learn from it so the same circumstances will happen to the new blood they bring in. Losing all that experience is bound to be a detriment. Keep guys like Cullen, BOD, POC etc. in the match panel and try out the new guys in a squad lineup balancing young and old.

Guys like Spence, Kearney, Ruddock, McKinley, Ryan etc are getting regular matches at the moment but for the most part they're still behind the guys who travelled to the WC. People like Toner, Hagan and Tuohy are more likely to make the step up and others who have been on the extended squads for a while and are in their provinces 22/23 man squads. Someone like Barnes is still learning his way and the best place for that is in his province. To me he is still a year away from regular call ups like Dominic Ryan; Fitzgerald, McFadden and others who have been there before will likely be ahead of him. Murray's premature inclusion and poorly implemented introduction to international rugby will hopefully will stand to his development and not impede him.

Conservative selection continuously favouring old hands on central contracts for such a long time has meant that we've reached a tipping point. We no longer can ignore the flaw in the present system that arises if a player is 2nd choice for their province due to lack of form but is elevated to the national team because of being given a certain contract. Unless that is addressed or a work around is reached we're destined to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Hype710

yimrsg wrote: »

I can't believe people are talking about jettisoning players from the squad, guys like Cullen, Jennings, Murray are first choices for their provinces or in the match day squads, the guys people are mentioning as inclusions are still rough around the edges and second choices. It was obvious that Murray needed more match time before the WC, the IRFU should learn from it so the same circumstances will happen to the new blood they bring in. Losing all that experience is bound to be a detriment. Keep guys like Cullen, BOD, POC etc. in the match panel and try out the new guys in a squad lineup balancing young and old.

Guys like Spence, Kearney, Ruddock, McKinley, Ryan etc are getting regular matches at the moment but for the most part they're still behind the guys who travelled to the WC. People like Toner, Hagan and Tuohy are more likely to make the step up and others who have been on the extended squads for a while and are in their provinces 22/23 man squads. Someone like Barnes is still learning his way and the best place for that is in his province. To me he is still a year away from regular call ups like Dominic Ryan; Fitzgerald, McFadden and others who have been there before will likely be ahead of him. Murray's premature inclusion and poorly implemented introduction to international rugby will hopefully will stand to his development and not impede him.

Conservative selection continuously favouring old hands on central contracts for such a long time has meant that we've reached a tipping point. We no longer can ignore the flaw in the present system that arises if a player is 2nd choice for their province due to lack of form but is elevated to the national team because of being given a certain contract. Unless that is addressed or a work around is reached we're destined to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Cullen is now fourth choice lock and doesnt look set for a comeback, I personally would rather Tuohy, Nagle or even Toner to come into the squad.

As for not giving call ups to the likes of Dominic Ryan who isn't first choice at the best club in Europe, look at Sam Warburton, capped by Wales when he wasn't first choice at Cardiff (Martyn Williams was) and look where he is now. Drastic changes aren't needed, but an inpetus of fresh blood for the training camps is, in my opinion.

Hagz

I'd love to know what passes for bias these days. Here's an example of a 35 man squad I would take to the 6N....let's see how bias it is. The players are in order of who would start.

LH: Healy, Wilkinson, Court
HK: Best, Cronin, Sherry
TH: Ross, Hagan, Archer
LK: POC, Tuohy, Ryan, Nagle
BR: SOB, Ferris, Heaslip, D.Ryan, Ruddock
SH: Murray, Reddan , Marshall
OH: Sexton, ROG, Madigan/Keatley
CT: BOD, D'arcy, McFadden, Spence
WG: Bowe, Trimble, Earls, Fitzgerald, Gilroy
FB: Kearney, Jones

In the front row the only real surprise I can see is my inclusion of Archer. I simply chose him as I could not think of another TH who's last name wasn't Buckley. Perhaps Flannery's exclusion is surprising but I hardly think so. Best is outplaying him and there's no chance he'll be around in 2015.

In the locks the only surprise is the exclusion of DOC. I think it's pretty obvious why i didn't choose him. He won't be around for the next world cup and his impact isn't pivotal enough to sacrifice game-time that could be given to others.

In the back-row, surprises are Ruddock for Leamy and the exclusion of Wallace. I didn't put Wallace there as I'm unsure on what his injury status is. Even so, he shouldn't start given his age. I swapped Leamy for Ruddock as Leamy I can't see the logic in giving him experience when it could be given to someone with the potential of Ruddock. O'Mahony has been playing well so I would not begrudge his inclusion over Ruddock I might add.

At Scrum-half, Murray should obviously be there due to his age and what we can make him into, but I added Marshall as he is a player who deserves more recognition. A snappy and intelligent scrum-half who is only 26.

At out-half I included ROG under the assumption that he is not retiring. I feel like he has something to offer but I also would like to add that it is not Sexton learning alongside him. Sexton should start no matter what from now on given the circumstances (building to a new WC). Madigan and Keatley is hard one to call.

I don't think I need to explain the rest of the squad.

Looking back over the squad, let's provincialise it.

Ulster - 8
Connacht - 1
Munster -9/10
Leinster - 15/16
Ospreys - 1

Hopefully the squad looks nothing like that come 6N, for the right reasons. And by that I mean I hope more younger players put their hands up for inclusion.

chancer12

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What has ROG done to earn a starting place at 10? If Ireland were playing next week Outhalf: ROG most definitly wouldn't be starting. His experience and game maangement produced absolutely nothing against Wales. I think ROG is done as a starter at international level against decent opposition. Any good team will simply rinse and repeat exactly what Wales did.

Scrumhalf: Murray has done nothing which should make him our #1 scrumhalf. He was very poor against Wales and shouldn't have been picked in the first place.

Centre: Having a centre who can't/won't pass is a terrible idea. Keep Earls on the wing(sorry, that should be bench actually).

Agree totally, Reddan really 'upped' the speed of the game when he came on, much faster at getting the ball out. The ROG/Sexton argument is over, the jersey has to be Johnny's now and while Earls is a finisher, he's not good defensively and I think it a huge insult to BOD to even refer to him in the same sentence! However, its another Kidneyism and he'll probably continue to switch him between wing and centre - which isn't helping anyone!

twinytwo

molloyjh wrote: »

Oh for the love of God. Watch the try again. He pulled ROG back from the ruck and sent him in the direction of the blind-side. ROG then proceeded to dander over to the open-side behind him. I originally thought Darce was to blame but it's clear from the replay that he thought ROG was there - see 1:13 below.

While I do agree we need to start bringing along new talent, in a number of areas of the field, I'd rather we didn't for the right reasons as opposed to some ridiculous witch-hunt.

He pulled him out of there... because why would would anyone put Rog defending the blind side of a ruck. At the end of the day Darcy was first defender and turned away from the ruck/phillips but as usual its easy to blame rog

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

He pulled him out of there... because why would would anyone put Rog defending the blind side of a ruck

because if anyone was defending it, there is no space there, so it's a completely simple hole to fill. Just being there is enough of a defence, as even the weediest of players can push another 6 inches into touch.

yimrsg

Hype710 wrote: »

Cullen is now fourth choice lock and doesnt look set for a comeback, I personally would rather Tuohy, Nagle or even Toner to come into the squad.

As for not giving call ups to the likes of Dominic Ryan who isn't first choice at the best club in Europe, look at Sam Warburton, capped by Wales when he wasn't first choice at Cardiff (Martyn Williams was) and look where he is now. Drastic changes aren't needed, but an inpetus of fresh blood for the training camps is, in my opinion.

Ryan is still miles away from Warburton's Welsh understudy Tipuric, let alone Warburton. I'm all for giving youngsters opportunities but he's still far from international standard and is second or third choice for his province. Bringing him in will cost him game time at valuable game time with Leinster. Bring him in and you run the risk that a) he performs badly and below expectations think SOB against Samoa, b) gets little or no meaningful game time and he's required to sit out matches like Ruddock was when he was called up for the NZ tour, c) he get's dropped from his province and Ireland Fitzgerald & TOL or he plays well.

Wales are an anomaly to me, youngster's like North, Halfpenny, Priestland start matches for Wales with barely any time with their clubs and perform like they are seasoned professionals. They Nz and Australia are the best at bringing in youngsters to international rugby. Either their coaches and international set-up are better at getting them to perform or our present set-up is a poison chalice and youngsters are better off not being made drink from it.

tolosenc

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Learn what exactly? That a post can be as one-eyed as possible, provided the bias is pro-Leinster most posters won't bat an eyelid? Can you think of the reaction I'd get if I excluded all the Leinster players I could from my preferred 6N squad? I get a barrage of replies if I say that ROG still has something to offer for example. Its in the discussion of the Irish team where the huge Leinster majority here, that hinders any decent discussion.

Fantastic idea to admit that you're a troll though. You'd hope the mods would follow due procedure.

If I'm a troll, what the hell are you?

That squad is basically the inverse of a squad you'd pick. It is no more biased than the majority of your posts. I dropped O'Gara because you said he should start, for example. There are things in there that clearly make no sense, such as iHumph over Keatley(who I'm actually a fan of, although he hasn't been great at Munster), but Keatley is nowhere near "pushing" Sexton. Likewise I've been impressed by Ryan, bu he ain't nowhere near Tuohy.

There are one or two things I will say. Murray has potential, but he is no way Ireland's number 1. He's been pushed too far too soon. He needs a year to solidify his place at Munster and get HC games played. I genuinely don't think he should be picked until Autumn 2012 at the earliest.

You rate Earls at 13, I don't rate him at international level in any position. He offers nothing defensively or creatively. Put him in a foot race for the line and he'll score, but in any other circumstance he's just a liability.

MungBean

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm not a coach and have never played either so I'll gladly stand corrected. I thought you needed 2 men on either side of the ruck? One for the pick and drive and one for the first receiver or breaking scrum half? And in this situation Darce was covering the former and we had no one covering the latter?

ROG was there until the Welsh drifted to the open side though. So seeing as any attack by the welsh bar a pick and go by the 9 being on the open side ROG drifted across. Regardless of what Darcy took the position to do he was first defender and the Welsh were only in a position to send Philips down the blind side. Being close to touch there really was no need to have another defender covering it as long as Darcy was defending off the side of the ruck.

Thats how it seems to me anyway. If there is no opposition lining up on the blind side you dont waste a defender covering it and leave it to first defender off the ruck to cover the 9.

Hagz

yimrsg wrote: »

Wales are an anomaly to me, youngster's like North, Halfpenny, Priestland start matches for Wales with barely any time with their clubs and perform like they are seasoned professionals.

Maybe that's what happens when you give youth a chance. Maybe these guys value the opportunity and hold no fear when they run out on that pitch. What's the problem with giving a D.Ryan a cap, or a Gilroy a cap. We can be very conservative in Ireland. I personally think the tour idea is the best one. Give these young guys ago down south or in the autumn. Nothing to lose.

jacothelad

Hagz wrote: »

I'd love to know what passes for bias these days. Here's an example of a 35 man squad I would take to the 6N....let's see how bias it is. The players are in order of who would start.

LH: Healy, Wilkinson, Court
HK: Best, Cronin, Sherry
TH: Ross, Hagan, Archer
LK: POC, Tuohy, Ryan, Nagle
BR: SOB, Ferris, Heaslip, D.Ryan, Ruddock
SH: Murray, Reddan , Marshall
OH: Sexton, ROG, Madigan/Keatley
CT: BOD, D'arcy, McFadden, Spence
WG: Bowe, Trimble, Earls, Fitzgerald, Gilroy
FB: Kearney, Jones

In the front row the only real surprise I can see is my inclusion of Archer. Did you see Archer getting humiliated by Duncan Jones? Archer simply does not have what it takes.

I simply chose him as I could not think of another TH who's last name wasn't Buckley. Other tight-head props who are available are Fitzpatrick (meh - but quite a bit better than Archer), Court and Andress.

In the locks the only surprise is the exclusion of DOC. I think it's pretty obvious why i didn't choose him. He won't be around for the next world cup and his impact isn't pivotal enough to sacrifice game-time that could be given to others...Good points.

In the back-row, surprises are Ruddock for Leamy and the exclusion of Wallace. I didn't put Wallace there as I'm unsure on what his injury status is. Even so, he shouldn't start given his age. I swapped Leamy for Ruddock as Leamy I can't see the logic in giving him experience when it could be given to someone with the potential of Ruddock. O'Mahony has been playing well so I would not begrudge his inclusion over Ruddock I might add. Good points.

At Scrum-half, Murray should obviously be there due to his age and what we can make him into, but I added Marshall as he is a player who deserves more recognition. A snappy and intelligent scrum-half who is only 26. Awful player. Not fit to play for Ulster. Brave, fast - and talent free. NOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOO
Awful player. Not fit to play for Ulster. Brave, fast - and talent free.

At out-half I included ROG under the assumption that he is not retiring. I feel like he has something to offer but I also would like to add that it is not Sexton learning alongside him. Sexton should start no matter what from now on given the circumstances (building to a new WC). Madigan and Keatley is hard one to call.

I don't think I need to explain the rest of the squad.

Looking back over the squad, let's provincialise it.

Ulster - 8
Connacht - 1
Munster -9/10
Leinster - 15/16
Ospreys - 1

Hopefully the squad looks nothing like that come 6N, for the right reasons. And by that I mean I hope more younger players put their hands up for inclusion.

>>>>>>>

Hagz

jacothelad wrote: »

>>>>>>>

Like I said, that Archer spot is just a novelty. We need more tight-heads.

I bow to your Ulster knowledge but I must say I'm surprised. I like Marshall's style of play. What is it that I'm not seeing?Is he inconsistent?

jacothelad

Hagz wrote: »

Like I said, that Archer spot is just a novelty. We need more tight-heads.

I bow to your Ulster knowledge but I must say I'm surprised. I like Marshall's style of play. What is it that I'm not seeing?Is he inconsistent?

Go on to UAFC and read what the Ulster fans think. He was on his way out until Boss defected to Dublin, then brought back in. He is just woeful. He makes TOL seem like a cross between Gareth Edwards and Genia. If you are a scrum half and you can't pass, it doesn't matter what else you do on the pitch (unless of course you are a darling of the press corps or married to the coaches daughter. )

yimrsg

Hagz wrote: »

Maybe that's what happens when you give youth a chance. Maybe these guys value the opportunity and hold no fear when they run out on that pitch. What's the problem with giving a D.Ryan a cap, or a Gilroy a cap. We can be very conservative in Ireland. I personally think the tour idea is the best one. Give these young guys ago down south or in the autumn. Nothing to lose.

Yeah but in the back of my mind there is what happened to Tait, thrust into international rugby and spat out. NZ, Wales and Australia all play an expansive sort of rugby and they naturally allow youngsters to play, Ireland, England and Scotland are fairly dour in attack and their youngsters can't flourish. It might have been Hook who said that Leinster's B teams attacking play was/is better than Ireland's during the WC, maybe he was just saying it to be controversial but there is more than a grain of truth in it.

Hagz

yimrsg wrote: »

Yeah but in the back of my mind there is what happened to Tait, thrust into international rugby and spat out. NZ, Wales and Australia all play an expansive sort of rugby and they naturally allow youngsters to play, Ireland, England and Scotland are fairly dour in attack and their youngsters can't flourish. It might have been Hook who said that Leinster's B teams attacking play was/is better than Ireland's during the WC, maybe he was just saying it to be controversial but there is more than a grain of truth in it.

Well then the best thing in my opinion is to get a backs coach to replace Gaffney who encourages open and expansive play, and then immerse our youth into that.

jacothelad wrote: »

Go on to UAFC and read what the Ulster fans think. He was on his way out until Boss defected to Dublin, then brought back in. He is just woeful. He makes TOL seem like a cross between Gareth Edwards and Genia. If you are a scrum half and you can't pass, it doesn't matter what else you do on the pitch (unless of course you are a darling of the press corps or married to the coaches daughter. )

That's disappointing. Not the worry though, the messiah is on his way. Ireland won't have to worry about scrum-half for a long long time. *touch wood*.

Cpt_Blackbeard

tolosenc wrote: »

If I'm a troll, what the hell are you?

That squad is basically the inverse of a squad you'd pick. It is no more biased than the majority of your posts. I dropped O'Gara because you said he should start, for example. There are things in there that clearly make no sense, such as iHumph over Keatley(who I'm actually a fan of, although he hasn't been great at Munster), but Keatley is nowhere near "pushing" Sexton. Likewise I've been impressed by Ryan, bu he ain't nowhere near Tuohy.

There are one or two things I will say. Murray has potential, but he is no way Ireland's number 1. He's been pushed too far too soon. He needs a year to solidify his place at Munster and get HC games played. I genuinely don't think he should be picked until Autumn 2012 at the earliest.

You rate Earls at 13, I don't rate him at international level in any position. He offers nothing defensively or creatively. Put him in a foot race for the line and he'll score, but in any other circumstance he's just a liability.

No need for the personal insults. You have basically admitted that you purposely omitted Munster players in order to get a reaction. That is trolling/WUMing in anyone's book.

Everyone will have certain preferences for different players and while I think that your opinion on players is wrong, nothing I can say will change your opinion, so I'll leave it at this.

Fireball07

Hagz wrote: »

I'd love to know what passes for bias these days. Here's an example of a 35 man squad I would take to the 6N....let's see how bias it is. The players are in order of who would start.

LH: Healy, Wilkinson, Court
HK: Best, Cronin, Sherry
TH: Ross, Hagan, Archer
LK: POC, Tuohy, Ryan, Nagle
BR: SOB, Ferris, Heaslip, D.Ryan, Ruddock
SH: Murray, Reddan , Marshall
OH: Sexton, ROG, Madigan/Keatley
CT: BOD, D'arcy, McFadden, Spence
WG: Bowe, Trimble, Earls, Fitzgerald, Gilroy
FB: Kearney, Jones

In the front row the only real surprise I can see is my inclusion of Archer. I simply chose him as I could not think of another TH who's last name wasn't Buckley. Perhaps Flannery's exclusion is surprising but I hardly think so. Best is outplaying him and there's no chance he'll be around in 2015.

In the locks the only surprise is the exclusion of DOC. I think it's pretty obvious why i didn't choose him. He won't be around for the next world cup and his impact isn't pivotal enough to sacrifice game-time that could be given to others.

In the back-row, surprises are Ruddock for Leamy and the exclusion of Wallace. I didn't put Wallace there as I'm unsure on what his injury status is. Even so, he shouldn't start given his age. I swapped Leamy for Ruddock as Leamy I can't see the logic in giving him experience when it could be given to someone with the potential of Ruddock. O'Mahony has been playing well so I would not begrudge his inclusion over Ruddock I might add.

At Scrum-half, Murray should obviously be there due to his age and what we can make him into, but I added Marshall as he is a player who deserves more recognition. A snappy and intelligent scrum-half who is only 26.

At out-half I included ROG under the assumption that he is not retiring. I feel like he has something to offer but I also would like to add that it is not Sexton learning alongside him. Sexton should start no matter what from now on given the circumstances (building to a new WC). Madigan and Keatley is hard one to call.

I don't think I need to explain the rest of the squad.

Looking back over the squad, let's provincialise it.

Ulster - 8
Connacht - 1
Munster -9/10
Leinster - 15/16
Ospreys - 1

Hopefully the squad looks nothing like that come 6N, for the right reasons. And by that I mean I hope more younger players put their hands up for inclusion.

That's fair enough. And since I don't think Archer has what it takes either and Court can apparently cover 2 sides, it might be better just to drop Archer and include someone like POM or Luke Marshall/Darren Cave? Just to give them experience in the squad.

And since I've never heard good things about Paul Marshall tbh, it might just be better bringing Boss or someone. Wait until Luke McGrath is ready to step up.

If you include those changes I said, you're still bringing 10 relatively new players into the squad + Jones, Murray, Wilkinson could be considered new too. 13/35 is over a third of the squad which is a good bit of change tbh.


Oh, and I think D'Arcy is good enough, but do you not think the reasoning applied to DOC being left out could not be applied to him too? But if Kidney is still in charge, then I'd expect DOC, D'Arcy, TOL and even David Wallace to still be picked. Not ideal, now what I want but it could happen.

JustinDee

yimrsg wrote: »

It might have been Hook who said that Leinster's B teams attacking play was/is better than Ireland's during the WC, maybe he was just saying it to be controversial but there is more than a grain of truth in it.

Where is the valid comparison though? International level vs British & Irish Cup? Far too wide a gap.
There are probably senior schools teams who play better than said Leinster reserves and in turn junior schools who play better than them.

yimrsg

JustinDee wrote: »

Where is the valid comparison though? International level vs British & Irish Cup? Far too wide a gap.
There are probably senior schools teams who play better than said Leinster reserves and in turn junior schools who play better than them.

Ok then look at Ireland vs Russia. The fact that the two best tries in that match came from the Russian backs is even more damaging considering that they lost games against the Dragons in their warm up.

jacothelad

Hagz wrote: »

Well then the best thing in my opinion is to get a backs coach to replace Gaffney who encourages open and expansive play, and then immerse our youth into that.



That's disappointing. Not the worry though, the messiah is on his way. Ireland won't have to worry about scrum-half for a long long time. *touch wood*.

McGrath?

eddiej

Just a few bits lads, We had 2 of the best centres in the world as a combination. As the game has moved they have come to the end and we need to replace them. Personally like Barnes as a possibility for 12 presume he is eligable having played youths etc. Not sure on Fitz at centre he has been flaky since he came back from injury and FB defo did his confidence no good. Earls is a winger good pace good finisher needs to work on the tackle a lot but a winger not a centre. At 13 anyone is going to be a step down from BOD at his best but that was a few years ago now. ROG is just gone I am afaraid, he was the best 10 we had for years and while not agreat tackler always stood in front of the man anyway. Big sexton fan and think he will be great player but needs game time. If place kicking dont imporve well he had his chance and we hope keatley is getting better. Our seconds are poor ball carriers. Thought POC was back to best after about 3 years of below par play but still is not a pacey line breaking ball carrier. So we need to switch centres and second row. Also whoever our SH is needs to give us quick ball if we have notions of playing this backs quick game. Dont think we have the physical bulk for a SA Eng bosh game. A seven is neede we beat Aus without Pocock and that lad destroyed SA think that gave us a notion that we were better inthe backrow than we are. Our BR are all fine players but none a 7 anjd we need one.

By the way if we are going to burn Darce for philips try or try and blame ROG for it though he hung around ehind the ruck for a bit before he "dashed" off to realign himself (Darce missed the tackle end of and did take a step in) can we line up SOB for being put on his tush by Philips hand off. Lets not castigate great carrers for one instance, remember Darce bursting run against Aus. To Rog, POC, Darce BOD great players to whom father time has caught up and if RWC is priority I dont think any of this 4 will be there so time to look at replacements whether sudden or learning off bench. Biggets prob is getting game time for new guys at prov level

JustinDee

yimrsg wrote: »

Ok then look at Ireland vs Russia. The fact that the two best tries in that match came from the Russian backs . . .

What were better tries in that match are a matter of subjective opinion.

Namibia scored an absolute beaut of a try vs South Africa, probably one of 'the best' of the tournament, for example.