Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

Wolfe Tone · 17-09-2011 2:13am

K-9 wrote: »

He would have to put his personal beliefs aside. The country should be building on the success of the last visit. It's the major question he has to answer for me.

As far as I know the president issues the invite?

In fairness he has a history of being pragmatic about things, working with Paisley etc

jbkenn · 17-09-2011 2:14am

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

If don't know what he's saying, how can you call him a dipsh!t? Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Real simple, to me, as a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, a Republican, look it up here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican and, a life long taxpayer in the Republic,Gerry Adams is a clueless Northern dip****, end of, so the goodly voters of Louth sought fit to elect him, so be it, but hey, if Sinn Fein had put up a Ferguson 35 as a candidate, they would probably have voted for it, as a Republican and Democrat, I accept that, but the man is so clueless, of issues in the Republic, to me, he is still a dip****, if you think the sun shines out of his ar$e, well, thats your problem

jbkenn · 17-09-2011 2:21am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

As far as I know the president issues the invite?

In fairness he has a history of being pragmatic about things, working with Paisley etc

Ah.. no, the Government issues the invitation.

Foghladh · 17-09-2011 2:24am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

As far as I know the president issues the invite?

In fairness he has a history of being pragmatic about things, working with Paisley etc

Yeah but he's also a very divisive character. He'd be the first President in many years to have such polarised political beliefs. Our presidents have a history of being political non-entities or else elder statesmen at the end of their careers. If McG did get in there he'd be a first in recent times, in that he has credentials firmly nailed to a particular political mast. Given that the position has traditionally transcended politics I don't know that that could work. If anything it really shows up the flaws in the nominations procedure. You can run but need to be nominated by political bodies. Given your earlier comment about him highlighting the cause of the disenfranchised Irish do you believe that he would act apolitically?

Wolfe Tone · 17-09-2011 2:31am

Foghladh wrote: »

Yeah but he's also a very divisive character. He'd be the first President in many years to have such polarised political beliefs. Our presidents have a history of being political non-entities or else elder statesmen at the end of their careers. If McG did get in there he'd be a first in recent times, in that he has credentials firmly nailed to a particular political mast. Given that the position has traditionally transcended politics I don't know that that could work. If anything it really shows up the flaws in the nominations procedure. You can run but need to be nominated by political bodies. Given your earlier comment about him highlighting the cause of the disenfranchised Irish do you believe that he would act apolitically?

I think the presidency has for too long been a retirement home, or a trophy for the establishment carved up between them. Electing Marty would certainly shake things up.

He is supposed to represent Irish citizens, I don't see what would be wrong with him representing the interests of Irish citizens abroad or in the north by saying they should be allowed vote. The presidency is a very limited role tbh he couldn't do too much even if he wanted to. I certainly think he would act responsibly in the best interests of all the Irish people.

I think SF are making a point about him acting apolitically as he is running as an independent candidate, SF are just facilitating his nomination afaik.

K-9 · 17-09-2011 2:32am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

As far as I know the president issues the invite?

In fairness he has a history of being pragmatic about things, working with Paisley etc

We all know pragmatism works. A SF President welcoming the Queen?

It'll be interesting how he answers that question.

Is Cuma Liom · 17-09-2011 2:37am

I like him.Stood up for what he believed was right and never backed down.He gets my vote.

KeithAFC · 17-09-2011 2:40am

Is Cuma Liom wrote: »

I like him.Stood up for what he believed was right and never backed down.He gets my vote.

So did a lot of people in the Troubles. You would not vote any tom dick or harry would you because they fought?

Pat D. Almighty · 17-09-2011 2:40am

jbkenn wrote: »

Real simple, to me, as a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, a Republican, look it up here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican and, a life long taxpayer in the Republic,Gerry Adams is a clueless Northern dip****, end of, so the goodly voters of Louth sought fit to elect him, so be it, but hey, if Sinn Fein had put up a Ferguson 35 as a candidate, they would probably have voted for it, as a Republican and Democrat, I accept that, but the man is so clueless, of issues in the Republic, to me, he is still a dip****, if you think the sun shines out of his ar$e, well, thats your problem

That doesn't explain why you think he's a dipsh1t. You sound like a dissident.

Wolfe Tone · 17-09-2011 2:41am

K-9 wrote: »

We all know pragmatism works. A SF President welcoming the Queen?

It'll be interesting how he answers that question.

Its her turn to have him over for tea

Could you imagine that, showing a former provo around the palace? Would she welcome him?

I reckon if he had to he would greet her with a delegation from north and south and sell it as her visiting Ireland, all of Ireland, hence the delegation of elected heads north and south, maybe some unionists too, where theres a will theres a way. Would he tell her to feck off? I doubt it, the first visit was a big deal, now its been done... At the time of the last visit he greatly opposed any form of protest.

For his part, he believes people should respect the fact that Irish President Mary McAleese has invited the Queen to Dublin as part of her policy of reconciliation.

“While people have the right to protest, I think protest would be a mistake. Particularly protests that could turn violent. It would be a huge mistake,” he said.

Mr McGuinness explained that the gesture was not an easy one.

“These are tricky situations to deal with. Consider my own city for example. In the aftermath of the murder of 14 people on Bloody Sunday, The Parachute Regiment was rushed up to Buckingham Palace and decorated by the Queen. If people think that doesn’t present a problem for me, quite apart from our view that Ireland should be free and united, then they are mistaken.”

Pat D. Almighty · 17-09-2011 2:43am

Is Cuma Liom wrote: »

I like him.Stood up for what he believed was right and never backed down.He gets my vote.

Actually, McGuinness once said votes will not bring a united ireland, only the IRA. Look at him now.

Foghladh · 17-09-2011 2:49am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think the presidency has for too long been a retirement home, or a trophy for the establishment carved up between them. Electing Marty would certainly shake things up.

He is supposed to represent Irish citizens, I don't see what would be wrong with him representing the interests of Irish citizens abroad or in the north by saying they should be allowed vote. The presidency is a very limited role tbh he couldn't do too much even if he wanted to. I certainly think he would act responsibly in the best interests of all the Irish people.

I think SF are making a point about him acting apolitically as he is running as an independent candidate, SF are just facilitating his nomination afaik.

I'm not sure that his running as an independent would really matter, if that's what he's doing. It'd be like Bertie running and being facillitated by FF. Everyone would still link him to his party. I'd have an issue with him pushing the agenda of voting rights for NI citizens to be honest even in an apolitical way. Because frankly it wouldn't be apolitical. The only winners from that scenario are Sinn Féin. I don't know the percentages of unionists who have subscribed to Irish citizenship but I can't imagine it's very high. Even were voting privilages given to all in the north, regardless of citizenship, I can't see those of the unionist community turning out to vote in a presidential election for the Republic. So essentially we'd have a scenario where a block of republican voters from the north have entitlement to vote in the Republic and who are the only party they have exposure to?

Wolfe Tone · 17-09-2011 2:51am

Foghladh wrote: »

I'm not sure that his running as an independent would really matter, if that's what he's doing. It'd be like Bertie running and being facillitated by FF. Everyone would still link him to his party. I'd have an issue with him pushing the agenda of voting rights for NI citizens to be honest even in an apolitical way. Because frankly it wouldn't be apolitical. The only winners from that scenario are Sinn Féin. I don't know the percentages of unionists who have subscribed to Irish citizenship but I can't imagine it's very high. Even were voting privilages given to all in the north, regardless of citizenship, I can't see those of the unionist community turning out to vote in a presidential election for the Republic. So essentially we'd have a scenario where a block of republican voters from the north have entitlement to vote in the Republic and who are the only party they have exposure to?

In fairness its not SFs fault that the other parties ditched the north.

Is Cuma Liom · 17-09-2011 2:52am

Most people in Ireland don't give a flying fig about the past.Most people of voting age would like somebody who would stand up for the people for once.I take Martin McGuinness at face value as I do David Norris.I respect Martin MacGuinness more,because I think he probably is more in touch with real Irealnd.Or Eire or US/EU naval base .Which ever fits.

ninjasurfer1 · 17-09-2011 2:53am

briankeating wrote: »

The question of citizenship is not the least bit vague. You keep saying "Irish nation" but this term has no relevance. He is entitled to citizenship of the Republic of Ireland as set out in the constitution, simple. It's black and white.

Not to be picky, but (Open to correction) the term Republic of Ireland is not mentioned in the constitution. Articles 1, 2 and 3 only reference the vague ideal of irish nation. (Article 4 : The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland). http://www.constitution.ie/reports/ConstitutionofIreland.pdf

The Republic of Ireland Act 1948 declared the Irish state to be a republic.

If this is right, then all irish people have a right to be part of the irish nation, but not in reality, part of the political entity that is the Republic of ireland.

People living in the six counties reside within the british political system regardless of irish citizenship. Pay taxes, follow their laws, etc.

Of course, I could have taken this up completely arseways!!

Foghladh · 17-09-2011 2:54am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

In fairness its not SFs fault that the other parties ditched the north.

I believe FF established themselves up there a while back

I'm not saying it ain't a smart move. More that it isn't the role of the President to push this along

Is Cuma Liom · 17-09-2011 2:57am

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

Actually, McGuinness once said votes will not bring a united ireland, only the IRA. Look at him now.

A famous man once said "look at the man, not the clothes"

KeithAFC · 17-09-2011 3:00am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

In fairness its not SFs fault that the other parties ditched the north.

There is nothing in it for the other parties like FG or FF in Northern Ireland.

Wolfe Tone · 17-09-2011 3:01am

Foghladh wrote: »

I believe FF established themselves up there a while back I'm not saying it ain't a smart move. More that it isn't the role of the President to push this along

Maybe he wont, only he can say for sure

He will mention it during the campaign Im sure, bit daft he is allowed run, but cant vote!

jbkenn · 17-09-2011 3:04am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think the presidency has for too long been a retirement home, or a trophy for the establishment carved up between them. Electing Marty would certainly shake things up.

For once I agree with you, p.s. by the way would you ever do some research on Wolfe Tone, it might encourage you to change your Boards I.D.

He is supposed to represent Irish citizens, I don't see what would be wrong with him representing the interests of Irish citizens abroad or in the north by saying they should be allowed vote. The presidency is a very limited role tbh he couldn't do too much even if he wanted to. I certainly think he would act responsibly in the best interests of all the Irish people.

Newsflash... Irish taxpayers, unfortunately, have to fund the Presidency, representing, the shmucks who have to pay for it, us beleaguered taxpayers, the Irish abroad (my own son included, thanks to Bertie Ahern's and Fianna Fail's traitorous actions, Peace process aside, fu$k me, if I hear any more about the "Peace Process" I will puke) and our Northern brethren who pay their taxes to HM Government. "citizens of Ireland" my ar$e, ante up and you can have a say.

I think SF are making a point about him acting apolitically as he is running as an independent candidate, SF are just facilitating his nomination afaik.

You are taking the pi$$?, right, independant candidate?,

Foghladh · 17-09-2011 3:04am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Maybe he wont, only he can say for sure

He will mention it during the campaign Im sure, bit daft he is allowed run, but cant vote!

Ah well, we can always impeach him if he does. Not that he'll get in spitting distance of the Aras of course. I wish him well obviously

jbkenn · 17-09-2011 3:12am

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

That doesn't explain why you think he's a dipsh1t. You sound like a dissident.

Dissident??? WTF is a dissident?

jbkenn · 17-09-2011 3:17am

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

He will mention it during the campaign Im sure, bit daft he is allowed run, but cant vote!

Not really, reality, he does not have a vote, because he is not a citizen, simple..

Pat D. Almighty · 17-09-2011 3:17am

jbkenn wrote: »

Dissident??? WTF is a dissident?

Move along, nothing to see here.

jbkenn · 17-09-2011 3:18am

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

Move along, nothing to see here.

Simple question, answer please...

Liam Byrne · 17-09-2011 3:22am

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

jbkenn wrote: »

Ah... no, life is too short to be bothered reading anything that dip**** has to say

If don't know what he's saying, how can you call him a dipsh!t? Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Because actions speak louder than words ?

Liam Byrne · 17-09-2011 3:30am

briankeating wrote: »

If the president of Ireland visits the UK, Iran or Cuba they have to obey the laws of that country just like any president who visits Ireland.

Really ? What about the concept of "diplomatic immunity" ?

Actually, it's a chronic indictment of our options that 3 names that are / were in the running would see that as the biggest advantage / perk of the office.

jbkenn · 17-09-2011 3:40am

Anyway, enough fun for tonight, as a member of the SME sector in this bankrupt Republic, I have to get up in the morning and figured out how I am going to pay the wages next week.
I am still waiting for "None of the Above" to appear on the ballot paper, to justify my civic duty as a citizen, and voter.

To this end, I have a suggestion, every citizen over 18 in the Republic has a vote, and, every citizen over 18 can buy a Lotto ticket, so, why don't we run a Presidential "Lotto" campaign, like the Lotto "Millionaire" draw, that way, every citizen has a chance at winning the "Lotto" Presidential gravy train, €2.1 million in salary, free room and board for 7 years, free company car, a gilt edged pension, and if that is'nt enough, an all expenses paid funeral, why should it be limited political "has beens" and near do wells, and "citizens of Ireland" who suddenly acquire "patriotism"

Brian? · 17-09-2011 5:30am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Really ? What about the concept of "diplomatic immunity" ?

Actually, it's a chronic indictment of out options that 3 names that are / were in the running would see that as the biggest advantage / perk of the office.

Do presidents have diplomatic immunity? I wouldn't be sure that they do.

Brian? · 17-09-2011 5:44am

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Not to be picky, but (Open to correction) the term Republic of Ireland is not mentioned in the constitution. Articles 1, 2 and 3 only reference the vague ideal of irish nation. (Article 4 : The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland). http://www.constitution.ie/reports/ConstitutionofIreland.pdf

The Republic of Ireland Act 1948 declared the Irish state to be a republic.

If this is right, then all irish people have a right to be part of the irish nation, but not in reality, part of the political entity that is the Republic of ireland.

What is the "Irish nation"? The country we live in is the Republic of Ireland. The countries name is Ireland and it is a Republic. Just like France, but no one bothers to call it the Republic of France because there's no partitioned "Northern France" to confuse the issue.

If you have the right to Irish citizenship, you have the right to (among other things) live, work, vote and stand for election in the Republic of Ireland.

People living in the six counties reside within the british political system regardless of irish citizenship. Pay taxes, follow their laws, etc.

It is completely irrelevant where they live. There are no levels or types of citizenship, you're either a citizen of the Republic of Ireland and thereby entitled to hold an Irish passport or not. It's black and white as I said before. I have no idea where this abstract concept of an "Irish nation" you keep using comes from.

Of course, I could have taken this up completely arseways!!

Honestly, I think this is the case. It really couldn't be simpler for the reasons I outline above. An Irish citizen is an Irish citizen.

Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

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