Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

ninjasurfer1

nordydan wrote: »

I am sure if MMG had recently won a golfing major, he'd be readily accepted as "proper" Irish! Freestaters can be very a la carte about their definition of nationality

Way to duck the question!! :rolleyes:

As i've already said:
When did i say he's not Irish?
I specifically said he's entitled to be part of the irish nation (as per article 2 of the constitution). However, the definition of the nation is quite vague.

My query was around the potential conflicts of being part of the Political Irish state with all of its own laws and also falling within the remit of the UK and its own laws.
Simple questions like, which countries laws take priority, if he's successful, is he bound by irish law only for the duration, etc.

jbkenn

nordydan wrote: »

I am sure if MMG had recently won a golfing major, he'd be readily accepted as "proper" Irish! Freestaters can be very a la carte about their definition of nationality

Less of the "Freestater" horse**** there sunshine, the "Freestater" taxpayers will have to pay Marty his wages, not the citizens of the "island of Ireland".

Wolfe Tone

Cicero wrote: »

You challenged my post earlier..I responded...I heard nothing further...this is your thread...in future...please don't challenge my posts if you don't want to debate and respond.....I'm not interested in people being selective in their debate, plain and simple....you haven't in any way shown how M.MC G is presidential material...which is the point of your original post in this thread....

If its my thread then I want you to bugger off and stop posting in it :pac:

Its not my thread at all. I answered your question and explained why I feel he is a good candidate. You dissected it and tried to cast it aside as you will do with any further comment I could make on the subject. I'm sorry you don't feel my answer is sufficient, but it will have to do I'm afraid. It seems I have let you down

I thought they were good reasons and qualifications, perhaps I was wrong. Maybe you could explain what exactly you are looking for in a president, that would be interesting, perhaps it would enlighten me as to why you seem to feel Marty is unsuitable or unqualified and it could educate me on what qualities a president should possess.

K-9

Austin Currie was a candidate for FG 20 years ago so that covers the NI thingey.

As for McGuinness, McAleese handled the Queen's visit brilliantly. SF opposed it and considering it is very much Presidential election related, it's a definite No for me.

I also think it's a very populist pick.

Foghladh

It does throw up an interesting scenario. If the Queen arrived back next year in an environment where McGuinness was a president what would he do? I assume as the apolitical Head of State he would have to wine and dine and make complimentary toasts. How would that sit on his shoulders?

Sir Oxman

jbkenn wrote: »

I think people need to bring themselves up to speed on what exactly the Presidency of Ireland entails, it might bring some clarity to the contributions here.
Have a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Ireland

Yes I'm aware of the duties and restrictions of the office.

problemchimp

I will vote for Marty!

jbkenn

Foghladh wrote: »

It does throw up an interesting scenario. If the Queen arrived back next year in an environment where McGuinness was a president what would he do? I assume as the apolitical Head of State he would have to wine and dine and make complimentary toasts. How would that sit on his shoulders?

Simple really, for €325,000 a year salary, free board and lodgings, a company car, a gold plated pension for the rest of his natural, and a free funeral when he pops his clogs, he would do exactly what he was told to do.

jbkenn

gambiaman wrote: »

Yes I'm aware of the duties and restrictions of the office.

Good, so where is the need for debate?

Pat D. Almighty

NSNO wrote: »

Because the Irish people will never elect a former member of the IRA Army Council as President. Simple as that. He may well come second on the first count, but he won't get a transfer from anyone supporting Higgins or Mitchell and from very few Norris supporters.

It won't be the first time a former/current IRA member/leader has been elected to President/Taoiseach.

Sir Oxman

jbkenn wrote: »

Good, so where is the need for debate?

I'm sorry, what are you on about?

Wolfe Tone

jbkenn wrote: »

Simple really, for €325,000 a year salary, free board and lodgings, a company car, a gold plated pension for the rest of his natural, and a free funeral when he pops his clogs, he would do exactly what he was told to do.

He will only take home 10% or thereabouts of that salary.

Foghladh

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

He will only take home 10% or thereabouts of that salary.

And the Sinn Féin party gets the rest or he leaves it in the national coffers?

Wolfe Tone

Foghladh wrote: »

And the Sinn Féin party gets the rest or he leaves it in the national coffers?

Not entirely sure, would rather SF have it than the banks tbh! Regardless its clear he is not in this for the money.

Foghladh

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

It won't be the first time a former/current IRA member/leader has been elected to President/Taoiseach.

I always knew there was more to Mary Robinson than met the eye!

Pat D. Almighty

Foghladh wrote: »

And the Sinn Féin party gets the rest or he leaves it in the national coffers?

I reckon it'll be left in the public purse. I can understand TDs/MPs excess salary going back to the party's activities in the constituency, but this position and the salary is way too big to keep for the party, considering the abuse SF have been giving other parties recently.

jbkenn

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

He will only take home 10% or thereabouts of that salary.

Whether he does or does not, we taxpayers of the Republic of Ireland will have to ante up €325,000 p.a for his salary, plus accomodition, plus company car, plus expenses, ect., so where will the rest of it go?

Foghladh

I'd imagine he'd have to leave it with the exchequer if he wants to keep the role of President apolitical. Otherwise we have a situation where the President is making a 300k annual donation to a political party. That would be ... messy

Pat D. Almighty

Foghladh wrote: »

I always knew there was more to Mary Robinson than met the eye!

Mary "Steak-knife" Robinson.

jbkenn

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not entirely sure, would rather SF have it than the banks tbh! Regardless its clear he is not in this for the money.

Well when you are sure, let the rest of us taxpayers know, please

Wolfe Tone

The Peoples President .....
Martin McGuinness has been my friend for almost 40 years. He is a remarkable and gifted human being and a great leader and a patriot. It will be a great honour for me to propose Martin McGuinness to contest Presidential election on a broad, republican, citizen-centred platform. He will make an excellent President of Ireland.

Ireland is a partitioned country. The consequences of that have been deeply damaging for the people of this island.

In the north a unionist one party regime ruled and abused citizens for 50 years. Unionist repression and a society in which Catholics were treated as second class citizens led to a civil rights campaign for justice. When that was attacked by the state there followed decades of conflict.

Martin McGuinness played a huge role in bringing that conflict to an end.
The southern state was run by a conservative political and business elite whose greed and corrupt practices ultimately led to the current dire economic crisis.
As a result there is now a climate of despair and of fear. Half a million are unemployed; thousands more face losing their homes; one third of our children are going without one or more of the basic necessities of life. This includes a warm coat in winter, a bed and bedding of their own, and three meals a day. And each day brings more news of job losses. This is unacceptable.

Never was there a more important time for republican politics. Never was there a greater need for a President who can represent all that is good and vital and compassionate and caring about the Irish people.

Ireland needs a Peoples President – a President who can bring hope; who can lift spirits and reach out to and embrace all the people fo this island.

A President who has the ability to break down barriers between people and who has the acknowledged experience to work with those of opposite opinions.

Martin is an outstanding political leader. First as Minister of the Education when he began the work of transforming education in the north, and then as Deputy Fiurst Minister Martin has worked closely with unionist leaders like Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson, building a partnership power sharing government which has defied the begrudgers and is delivering for citizens.

Martin has demonstrated enormous courage and taken a strong stand against those who would seek to plunge Ireland back into war.

He has travelled widely, ably representing the people of the north on the international stage. He knows many world leaders and is recognised by then as a capable and effective leader and representative.

Martin has a deserved international reputation as a peace maker. He is a statesman who has taken huge personal and political risks in his life.

As Sinn Féin’s chief negotiator during the peace process, time and again HE demonstrated immense personal leadership and an ability to persuade others to take decisions and initiatives which many thought impossible.

There would have been no peace process without his enthusiastic encouragement.

The next seven years will be enormously challenging for the people of this island.

Ireland needs a President who has a vision of a fairer, better and more prosperous Ireland.

A President who can represent every section of our society, nationalist and unionist, urban and rural, republican and loyalist, and those from the new immigrant community.

Martin will ensure that the Aras is a welcoming place for all sections of society across this island, and in particular for those who have been marginalized.

He is uniquely placed to reach out to the Irish diaspora and to engage with it in building a new Ireland.

Martin is for a new Republic which has citizens rights at its heart. He believes totally in the core republican values of equality and fairness.

He believes in people and community and in civic virtues. He has the ability to rise above the party political and to successfully represent all of the Irish people.

I am confident that he will build on the excellent work of President McAleese and her husband Martin.

And as we enter a period of unprecedented historic anniversaries, including the 100th anniversary of the 1916 Rising, it would be especially important that we have a President who is committed to uniting Ireland and ensuring that the principles and values that are expressed in the Proclamation become a reality.

This is a time of great challenge for all the people of Ireland. We need positive but authentic leadership.

I believe that this election will give Martin the platform to continue the work which he has led in the North and in the peace process and to put it on a national footing.

If elected he will draw the average wage. He will dedicate himself to a genuine national reconciliation and the unity of our people. He will personify hope in the great genius and integrity of all the people of this island, Catholics, Protestants and Dissenters.

I would appeal, if Martin contests this election, for people to join in this campaign, including people in the North and across the diaspora who are denied a vote at this time. The campaign will give citizens the opportunity to make a stand for a better Ireland, for a united Ireland.

Does anyone else read Gerrys blog? He makes some interesting points a lot of the time, theres his take on this, I thought some would be interested in his take on it so I decided to share it here.

Brian?

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

When did i say he's not Irish?
I specifically said he's entitled to be part of the irish nation (as per article 2 of the constitution). However, the definition of the nation is quite vague.

The question of citizenship is not the least bit vague. You keep saying "Irish nation" but this term has no relevance. He is entitled to citizenship of the Republic of Ireland as set out in the constitution, simple. It's black and white.

My query was around the potential conflicts of being part of the Political Irish state with all of its own laws and also falling within the remit of the UK and its own laws.
Simple questions like, which countries laws take priority, etc.

Again, i'm not stirring, just trying to get answers..

There are no potential conflicts. You obey the laws of the country you are currently in. That stands true for everyone, it doesn't matter what office you have been elected to. It's not a matter of priority. If the president of Ireland visits the UK, Iran or Cuba they have to obey the laws of that country just like any president who visits Ireland.

jbkenn

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

Mary "Steak-knife" Robinson.

No, Mary the "Pensioner" Robinson, Former President Mary Robinson receives a pension of €187,000 from her time in the Aras and also as a senator. Her pension award is made up of €150,748 for her time as president and €36,549 for her time as senator. http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/tabId/161/itemId/1722/Does-Ireland-need-a-president.aspx
Nice pension if you can get it.

KeithAFC

jbkenn wrote: »

Whether he does or does not, we taxpayers of the Republic of Ireland will have to ante up €325,000 p.a for his salary, plus accomodition, plus company car, plus expenses, ect., so where will the rest of it go?

Hopefully help fund the PSNI or something. Got a big year coming up in 2012 with the Ulster covenant celebrations. So I hope the political field is keeping an eye on those dissidents.

jbkenn

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Does anyone else read Gerrys blog? He makes some interesting points a lot of the time, theres his take on this, I thought some would be interested in his take on it so I decided to share it here.

Ah... no, life is too short to be bothered reading anything that dip**** has to say

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Hopefully help fund the PSNI or something. Got a big year coming up in 2012 with the Ulster covenant celebrations. So I hope the political field is keeping an eye on those dissidents.

Whats your opinion on MMGs handling of dissident groups Keith? I think he has been very hard on them, calling them traitors and telling people to tell the PSNI.

jbkenn

KeithAFC wrote: »

Hopefully help fund the PSNI or something. Got a big year coming up in 2012 with the Ulster covenant celebrations. So I hope the political field is keeping an eye on those dissidents.

Now why should I or anybody else in the Republic fund anything in Northern Ireland, we are already saddled with funding a road FFs under the GFA

Pat D. Almighty

jbkenn wrote: »

Ah... no, life is too short to be bothered reading anything that dip**** has to say

If don't know what he's saying, how can you call him a dipsh!t? Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Whats your opinion on MMGs handling of dissident groups Keith? I think he has been very hard on them, calling them traitors and telling people to tell the PSNI.

Much better than Gerry Adams to be honest. I know Adams does tell them to go away etc but Martin always seems more open and blunt about it which is odd because you would always associate that with Adams.

K-9

Foghladh wrote: »

It does throw up an interesting scenario. If the Queen arrived back next year in an environment where McGuinness was a president what would he do? I assume as the apolitical Head of State he would have to wine and dine and make complimentary toasts. How would that sit on his shoulders?

He would have to put his personal beliefs aside. The country should be building on the success of the last visit. It's the major question he has to answer for me.