Dublin v Kerry. All Ireland Football Final 2011 *** Mod Warning Post #647 ***

keane2097

listermint wrote: »

You claimed Kerrys back line to be invincible.

He did in his hole :rolleyes:

King Cantona

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Kerry to win. Smarter on and off the field

Oh great, it´s this Troll again

listermint

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Just wanted to clear up some misconceptions:

Kerry:

Have a weakness at centre back.
Eoin Brosnan has been outstanding in every single game. Not in patches, but in every minute of every game. He has punched the winning point against Cork, ratched up a few against Limerick in both games and played outstanding against Mayo. When Kerry break he has a cool head and plays the right ball into the forwards.

Have a weakness at the full back line.
Mayo scored one goal. Limerick scored 3 in the Gaelic Grounds but were about 20 points behind at that stage and no one can really say that Kerry were switched on. Cork scored a penalty.

.

Was this not you? Perhaps I am insanely incorrect in you basically saying that Kerry do not have weaknesses in the back line. Is this not the same as saying the back line are invincible.

And to bring ageism into this makes you look more childish tbh.

I am either as old or older than you, thank you.

Personally I could pay more credence from the analysis of a 13 year old than some of the stuff you have posted today.

King Cantona

hanleyc2 wrote: »

Problem with McMenamin is sometimes he looks like a headless chicken, though on his day he can be very effective. O'Gara always runs the risk of getting a card alright and has contributed very little during any match time he has gotten this year.

Maybe Mossy Quinn might get a look in if both Connolly and Flynn are out.

Gilroy hasn´t given Mossy much gametime this year, and after McMenaman´s performance yesterday, think he´ll get the nod. Can´t see dermo getting let off, so toss up between O´Gara and Mossy there maybe. Hopefully Flynn will be ok and Connolly gets off.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Are an aging Team

They are an evolving team- they have lost Darragh O Shea, Tommy Walsh, Quirke, Scanlon is no longer a starter, Mike McArthy, etc. However:

Kealy 25 - Realy questions about him,

Tom O Sullivan 32
Marc O Shea 31
Killian Young 24

Eoin Brosnan 28
Tomas O Shea 33
Shane Enright 22

Bryan Sheehan 25
David Moran 22

Declan O Sullivan 28
Darran O Sullivan 25
Donnacha Walsh 26

Gooch 28
Donaghy 28
Kieran O'Leary 22

Impact Subs: Galvin 31 Barry John Keane 20

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is not an "Aging team"- It is a team in it's prime. It will be another three years before this team even has the start of it's decline.

Debate for another forum but....

Kealy 25 - Real questions about him, especially under the high ball

Tom O Sullivan 32 - Twilight of his career
Marc O Shea 31 - Twilight of his career
Killian Young 24

Eoin Brosnan 28 - More like 30, Twilight of his career
Tomas O Shea 33 - Twilight of his career
Shane Enright 22

Bryan Sheehan 25
David Moran 22 - Hopefully he come back from injury

Declan O Sullivan 28 - getting on, 40+ championship appearances
Darran O Sullivan 25
Donnacha Walsh 26 - Always been an average player

Gooch 28 - getting on, 50+ championship appearances
Donaghy 28
Kieran O'Leary 22

Impact Subs: Galvin 31 -Twilight of his career
Barry John Keane 20 - Not a great player

Hardly in their prime, their prime was '09.

Edit - I did not check the ages of all the players, I just knew that Brosnan was over 28

Mr. Incognito

listermint wrote: »

You claimed Kerrys back line to be invincible. I was displaying that they are not.

no more no less.

I said that Kerry's full and half back line are perceived as weak links. They are not.

It is impossible to criticise Kerry's forwards line so the backs come in for criticism but this Kerry team is build from the backs and most scores are from ball turned over in the backline- not primary possession.

Mayo scored 14 points. Cork 15- If Kerry can hold Dublin to about that they will win it easily.

keane2097

Tomás Quinn is a dreadful player and should be nowhere near starting in an AI Final.

O'Gara is average at best but he's still a long way ahead of Quinn.

kilns

Igcognito I am just pointing out the fact you should take your green and gold specs off for a while. Your comments are like that of a 12 year old who thinks the sun shines out of the arse of their team and can do nothing worng

I have pointed out Dublins weaknesses, which there are quite a few but you seem to think from 1 - 30, Kerry are flawless

listermint

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I said that Kerry's full and half back line are perceived as weak links. They are not.

It is impossible to criticise Kerry's forwards line so the backs come in for criticism but this Kerry team is build from the backs and most scores are from ball turned over in the backline- not primary possession.

Mayo scored 14 points. Cork 15- If Kerry can hold Dublin to about that they will win it easily.

Okay so on that analysis. Kerry have zero weakness Backline , Midfield and obviously the uncriticiseable front line...

Great Analysis there Incognito... Very insightful stuff.

Mr. Incognito

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Debate for another forum but....

Kealy 25 - Real questions about him, especially under the high ball

HA HA HA Cork tried that for the first Half Hour in Killarney- you know what they got- Nothing, not a thing- they only got change in the second half running at Kerry

Tom O Sullivan 32 - Twilight of his career
Marc O Shea 31 - Twilight of his career
Killian Young 24

Eoin Brosnan 28 - More like 30, Twilight of his career
Tomas O Shea 33 - Twilight of his career
Shane Enright 22

Bryan Sheehan 25
David Moran 22 - Hopefully he come back from injury

Declan O Sullivan 28 - getting on, 40+ championship appearances
Darran O Sullivan 25
Donnacha Walsh 26 - Always been an average playerLol- This comment highlights how little you know about Gaelic football- he is the type of player that Dublin are missing- A link between midfield and the forward line- he contributes the most- wins dirty ball, draws defenders and releases other players around him


Gooch 28 - getting on, 50+ championship appearances
Donaghy 28
Kieran O'Leary 22

Impact Subs: Galvin 31 -Twilight of his career
Barry John Keane 20 - Not a great player Are you having a giraffe? He is 20- and has ten years of intercounty play ahead of him- added to that he was the top scorer in the minors and you are taking the ritz here pal
Hardly in their prime, their prime was '09.

So Gooch and Declan are "tired" are they? Don't make me laugh. The Prime for a Gaelic Footballer is 28-32.

Look at any player of the year- and this is when they have the right mix of experience and athleticism. Most of Kerry's marque players are just hitting the start of their prime now.

TouchingVirus

martyoo wrote: »

But haven't they changed the rules this year?

Examiner Article

TheScore says:

Although some changes were proposed to the disciplinary process at the 2011 Congress, no change was made to Rule 7.3 (p) which allows the player the right to appeal a decision.

kilns

The Prime for a footballer is 28 -32 :eek:

King Cantona

keane2097 wrote: »

Tomás Quinn is a dreadful player and should be nowhere near starting in an AI Final.

O'Gara is average at best but he's still a long way ahead of Quinn.

He´s far from a terrible player. Granted, his club form is a lot better than any performance he has put in wearing the county colours, but Mossy is a top class forward. Like Connolly, every at Vincents knows what he´s capable of, he just needs things for him to click early on in a game to get his confidence up. He has bags more talent than O´Gara, who at best, is a limted footballer that only offers something different through his strenght and unpredictablity (as he doesn´t know what he´s doing himself)

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Debate for another forum but....

Kealy 25 - Real questions about him, especially under the high ball
Having a super year

Tom O Sullivan 32 - Twilight of his career
Will probably go after next year, unlikely to retire this year
Marc O Shea 31 - Twilight of his career
Has shown no signs of even the slightest fall off in performance. Will player three more years easily.
Killian Young 24

Eoin Brosnan 28 - More like 30, Twilight of his career
I'd imagine it's 30 rather than 28 alright, can and probably will play for two more years
Tomas O Shea 33 - Twilight of his career
Has never played better, will play at least one more season imo
Shane Enright 22

Bryan Sheehan 25
David Moran 22 - Hopefully he come back from injury
He's back doing a bit of running, I assume he meant to include Maher, who is also a young player

Declan O Sullivan 28 - getting on, 40+ championship appearances
lol, has five more years if not more left
Darran O Sullivan 25
Donnacha Walsh 26 - Always been an average player
Average compared to who? Would get on every single team in the country

Gooch 28 - getting on, 50+ championship appearances
Again, has five years or more left
Donaghy 28
Kieran O'Leary 22

Impact Subs: Galvin 31 -Twilight of his career
Could play on for several years considering his style, but will probably quit sooner rather than later
Barry John Keane 20 - Not a great player
He's 20, and you're basing your opinion of him off of probably 100 minutes of playing time which is the absolute max you've seen of him

Hardly in their prime, their prime was '09.

There is no drop off in level from 09 to now. The forwards are much better than two years ago and are getting better. The backs are better this year than they were in 09 as well.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

So Gooch and Declan are "tired" are they? Don't make me laugh. The Prime for a Gaelic Footballer is 28-32.

Look at any player of the year- and this is when they have the right mix of experience and athleticism. Most of Kerry's marque players are just hitting the start of their prime now.

Gooch has been playing senior for 10 seasons now, in those 10 seasons they have gone the distance 8 times, that many games takes it's toll, no way he is good for another 4 years.

Declan has been playing senior for 9 seasons now, in those 9 seasons they have gone the distance 7 times, that many games takes it's toll, no way he is good for another 4 years.

Brain Stroking

King Cantona wrote: »

Oh great, it´s this Troll again

Hang on why are you calling me a troll? I amnt trolling. People may not agree with your point mate, doesnt mean i am trying to derail anything.
And if we are talking about trolling then you'll be interested to hear that i was enjoying the Dublin-Donegal thread and had tried to put an idea forward for beating the blanket defence only to return from lunch to see two pages dominated by threads from you and then the thread was closed.
So, nice one numpty. A thread on one of the most interesting and fascinating tactical games of football in years closed less than 24 hours after the game ends due to people like you kicking off because everyone wouldnt say "Dublin are great". And now you are at it here again. Maybe you are trolling?

As for my opinion on this, well it stands as is. Dublin showed that when they are faced with any sort of tactical nous it takes them too long to work it out. Marc O'Shea will snuff Brogan and that will be that. Kerry's forwards will run riot against some of those Dublin defenders. Ger Brennan on Declan O'Sullivan? Paul Galvin will be back and chomping at the bit.
Jack O'Connor is as shrewd as they come. Kerry will win on and off the line.

But hey, cos i disagree with Cantona i'm a troll :rolleyes:

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Gooch has been playing senior for 10 seasons now, in those 10 seasons they have gone the distance 8 times, that many games takes it's toll, no way he is good for another 4 years.

Declan has been playing senior for 9 seasons now, in those 9 seasons they have gone the distance 7 times, that many games takes it's toll, no way he is good for another 4 years.

This is all very good as a theory, unfortunately reality has a good laugh when it hears it and wants to know what you think of Gooch in the semi-final.

When you see these guys start to slow down you can start to write their eulogies, all you're doing here is thinking wishfully.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

There is no drop off in level from 09 to now. The forwards are much better than two years ago and are getting better. The backs are better this year than they were in 09 as well.

Sorry for going off topic

Time will tell, but I certainly believe that this Kerry team is past it's prime and from what I have seen there is not a whole lot coming through to replace them.

Samich

After yesterdays showing, I want Dublin to lose, Kerry play football.

elguapo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Gooch has been playing senior for 10 seasons now, in those 10 seasons they have gone the distance 8 times, that many games takes it's toll, no way he is good for another 4 years.

Declan has been playing senior for 9 seasons now, in those 9 seasons they have gone the distance 7 times, that many games takes it's toll, no way he is good for another 4 years.

I respectfully disagree. If they were players whose games primarily depended on raw speed they would struggle to remain effective, but these guys are so good because of their skills. Barring injury, I think they'll both be playing, and playing well, in 2015.

kilns

Nowadays it is very unusual for players to carry on after they reach 30.

The commitment that is given every season takes its toll, physically and mentally.

And there comes a time when the body cant take the punishment anymore, it would be different if a player was professional as they would get the sufficient rest time but does not happen.

So I would not be surprised to see a Kerry team without Tom O'Sullivan, Marc O'Se, Brosnan, Tomas O'Se, Galvin.

Gooch, Declan O'Sullivan and Donaghy will stay for a few years but wont be the same players they are now.

Every team goes through it, it has been happening to Tyrone for the last 2 years. Dublin in 1995 were very lucky as that team were on the edge.

cianisgood

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I was half hoping Donegla would win yesterday but after the cynical fouling I changed by tune and was delighted to see Dublin win.

Dublin have had a soft run to the final and will get eaten alive in Croke Park.

Kerry have 6 forwards and another one in the centre of the half back line. Dublin have one. What happens when Brogan is stopped- Dublin scored two points from play.

It was pathetic to watch. If you go back and watch the Down game where they beat Kerry they kicked phenominal scores from 40-50 yards out- shots they kicked wide against Cork in the final.

Dublin had some atrocious wides yesterday- there was no-one on the team that could take a point on either team from beyond the 40 yard line. Even Donaghy for Kerry kicked one from 50 yards out the last day.

Kerry will win midfield- they won midfield against Mayo who have a better midfield than Dublin. Kerry will win the breaking ball.

The last time Kerry played Dublin they targeted Dublin's short kick outs and won by 17 points.

I can't see any template for Dublin to turn over Kerry.

Dublin have stopped the short kick outs

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic

Time will tell, but I certainly believe that this Kerry team is past it's prime and from what I have seen there is not a whole lot coming through to replace them.

I wager you've seen nothing tbh. How many Kerry u21 games have you been to or how many Strand Road games have you gone to watch BJ Keane playing in?

You're opinions on Kerry were shown to be deluded in the Mayo game, but you're still coming out with the same garbage.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

I wager you've seen nothing tbh. How many Kerry u21 games have you been to or how many Strand Road games have you gone to watch BJ Keane playing in?

You're opinions on Kerry were shown to be deluded in the Mayo game, but you're still coming out with the same garbage.

As stated by someone earlier under-age performance apparently means nothing so I do not see how it is relevant.

I'll be at a few county championship games this year and I will see from that, plus next years league.

As I said time will tell.

D'Agger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic

Time will tell, but I certainly believe that this Kerry team is past it's prime and from what I have seen there is not a whole lot coming through to replace them.

D'Agger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'll be at a few county championship games this year and I will see from that, plus next years league.

I thought you said you were going by what you've seen so far there fella??

listermint

Samich wrote: »

After yesterdays showing, I want Dublin to lose, Kerry play football.

Insightful, And Dublin played against Tyrone ? Basketball ? no no Tennis ?

Wait have it.... Playstation yeah playstation....

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'll be at a few county championship games this year and I will see from that, plus next years league.

As I said time will tell.

It'll be good to have you coming back with opinions that have an actual basis instead of you just spunking out whatever nauseating rubbish happens to drift across your transum.

King Cantona

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Hang on why are you calling me a troll? I amnt trolling. People may not agree with your point mate, doesnt mean i am trying to derail anything.
And if we are talking about trolling then you'll be interested to hear that i was enjoying the Dublin-Donegal thread and had tried to put an idea forward for beating the blanket defence only to return from lunch to see two pages dominated by threads from you and then the thread was closed.
So, nice one numpty. A thread on one of the most interesting and fascinating tactical games of football in years closed less than 24 hours after the game ends due to people like you kicking off because everyone wouldnt say "Dublin are great". And now you are at it here again. Maybe you are trolling?

As for my opinion on this, well it stands as is. Dublin showed that when they are faced with any sort of tactical nous it takes them too long to work it out. Marc O'Shea will snuff Brogan and that will be that. Kerry's forwards will run riot against some of those Dublin defenders. Ger Brennan on Declan O'Sullivan? Paul Galvin will be back and chomping at the bit.
Jack O'Connor is as shrewd as they come. Kerry will win on and off the line.

But hey, cos i disagree with Cantona i'm a troll :rolleyes:

Comments like "stick to watching manchester united" and "Kerry are smarter than Dublin on and off the pitch" are clearly demeaning comments aimed at rising a response. Unless i´m mistaken and you have knowledge of all the Dublin players IQs. Either that or you´re simply trolling and / or have a chip on your shoulder about the capital.

Another humdinger of a quote from you here: "only to return from lunch to see two pages dominated by threads from you and then the thread was closed."

1. I haven´t created any threads today.
2. Check my post history is the Dublin v Donegal thread and you´ll see I wasn´t dominating any thread "mate", I posted less than 3 times.

People would be willing to have a sensible debate with you if you left out the petualant name calling and belittling comments.

Mr. Incognito

kilns wrote: »

The Prime for a footballer is 28 -32 :eek:

Yes- Bernard Brogan is having his best year- He is 27.

Here are the footballers of the year and it's easy to see that they all had consistently brilliant seasons after these accolades. The footballer of the year is usually picked from the All Ireland winners with Brogan somehow getting it last year for sfa.

All Star Footballer of the Year
2010- Brogan 26 :rolleyes:
2009 Paul Galvin 30 A forward but his ability to win breaking ball was crucial not his scoring ability.
2008 Sean Cavanagh 25
2007 Marc O Shea 28
2006 Kieran Donaghy 23
2005 Stephen O Neill 26
2004 Tomas O Shea 26
2003 Stephen McDonnell 24
2002 McGeeney 31
2001 P Joyce 25
2000 S Moynihan 28

For defenders their peak is always later when their positional sense is more keen due to experience- for forwards they get better with age due to experience also. So all this "aging back line" twlight is nonsense. People are spouting some ****e around here