Dublin v Kerry. All Ireland Football Final 2011 *** Mod Warning Post #647 ***

keane2097

the realpigiron wrote: »

Why? I think it's fair comment. Tomas O'Se is undoubtedly a talented footballer but has in the past let himself down with thuggish behaviour. Liam Hayes criticised Jack O'Connor for allowing incidents of thuggery to happen on his watch in the past. Fair comment too I reckon.

You know you're at the cutting edge of GAA analysis when you're agreeing with Liam Hayes.

Stinicker

the realpigiron wrote: »

Why? I think it's fair comment. Tomas O'Se is undoubtedly a talented footballer but has in the past let himself down with thuggish behaviour. Liam Hayes criticised Jack O'Connor for allowing incidents of thuggery to happen on his watch in the past. Fair comment too I reckon.

What's your opinion of Paul Galvin?

JFlah

the realpigiron wrote: »

I tell you what Tomas would be well advised to leave the thuggish side out of his game on All-Ireland day. He has exhibited the thuggish side to his game more than enough in the past.




I am not at all stunned by your mendacity. You're probably a Kerry fan who will routinely swear black is white when defending a Kerry player. That doesn't deflect from the truth that Tomas O'Se most definitely has or has displayed a "thuggish edge" to his game as you put it.

I am a Kerryman true but i think i take a fair view of indiscretions by and against Kerry players and yes Galvin Tomas Aidan O M and a few more have done silly things in the past and in the former 2 cases been reprimanded and harshly dealt with , that is still not a licence to accuse them of thuggishness , in the heat of a game incidents occur thats the nature of the sport ,i would strongly disagree with you in your description of tomas as a thug however. Hard yes Thug NO!!! and this is a discussion on the upcoming AI Final not for attacks on individual players , what are your opinions of the game or are Kerry just going to thug Dublin out of it??

Daysha

The realpigiron is now banned for 10 days.

kilns

O'Gara is a poor player.

If flynn is fit and Connolly makes it, Cahill will make way for McMenamin. Cahill does not offer enough in my opinion.

If Flynn and Connolly both dont make it, then things could be interesting, in that scenario I think he will go with O'Gara at FF, McMen at CF, McAuley at WF and Fennel coming into Midfield

martyoo

If flynn is fit and Connolly makes it, Cahill will make way for McMenamin. Cahill does not offer enough in my opinion.

Doubt Connolly will be playing.

Link

kilns

Yes, but Michael Murphy had a red card recinded after the Cavan game after appealing the the CCCC. Clearing him to play in the Ulster final, so precidence is there

Stinicker

martyoo wrote: »

Doubt Connolly will be playing.

Link

Those are the rules this year and when Kevin McStay tried so hard this year to get Kieran Donaghy cited for an alleged kick, it was a case of referees decision is final. However the unfair element of it is Connolly will get 4 weeks, yet if Dublin and Donegal were first out of the pot his 4 week suspension would allow him to play and if Kerry had a man sent off last week against Mayo and got the 4 weeks he could play but the Dublin man can't as his game was a week closer to the final. Surely it should be a one match suspension and not down to weeks?

martyoo

Yes, but Michael Murphy had a red card recinded after the Cavan game after appealing the the CCCC. Clearing him to play in the Ulster final, so precidence is there

But haven't they changed the rules this year?

Examiner Article

kilns

Yes but Mayo did not do it and I think Dublin are good bit better than Mayo are

keane2097

Stinicker wrote: »

Those are the rules this year and when Kevin McStay tried so hard this year to get Kieran Donaghy cited for an alleged kick, it was a case of referees decision is final. However the unfair element of it is Connolly will get 4 weeks, yet if Dublin and Donegal were first out of the pot his 4 week suspension would allow him to play and if Kerry had a man sent off last week against Mayo and got the 4 weeks he could play but the Dublin man can't as his game was a week closer to the final. Surely it should be a one match suspension and not down to weeks?

They definitely need to change the terms of the bans alright.

kilns

The Michael Murphy incident happened this season, so after he appealed to the CCCC they allowed him to play.

I suspect the same will happen here

DDC1990

Stinicker wrote: »

Those are the rules this year and when Kevin McStay tried so hard this year to get Kieran Donaghy cited for an alleged kick, it was a case of referees decision is final. However the unfair element of it is Connolly will get 4 weeks, yet if Dublin and Donegal were first out of the pot his 4 week suspension would allow him to play and if Kerry had a man sent off last week against Mayo and got the 4 weeks he could play but the Dublin man can't as his game was a week closer to the final. Surely it should be a one match suspension and not down to weeks?

Not true by the way.

A Red Card is 4 weeks plus an automatic one match ban.

martyoo

Surely it should be a one match suspension and not down to weeks?

I agree. Would make more sense.

keane2097

I really can't see the basis for overturning the red card by the way.

Connolly thrust his two fists in the direction of the opposition player and struck him in the face. He then thrust his fist at him again and connected around the neck.

It was clearly striking, regardless of your opinion of Boyle's theatrics, and not just one either.

Mr. Incognito

Just wanted to clear up some misconceptions:

Kerry:

Have a weakness at centre back.
Eoin Brosnan has been outstanding in every single game. Not in patches, but in every minute of every game. He has punched the winning point against Cork, ratched up a few against Limerick in both games and played outstanding against Mayo. When Kerry break he has a cool head and plays the right ball into the forwards.

Have a weakness at the full back line.
Mayo scored one goal. Limerick scored 3 in the Gaelic Grounds but were about 20 points behind at that stage and no one can really say that Kerry were switched on. Cork scored a penalty.

Marc O Shea has been excellent under any high ball and Kealy imo has been instrumental in every Kerry game making fine saves in the Cork, Limerick and Moyo games.

Are an aging Team

They are an evolving team- they have lost Darragh O Shea, Tommy Walsh, Quirke, Scanlon is no longer a starter, Mike McArthy, etc. However:

Kealy 25

Tom O Sullivan 32
Marc O Shea 31
Killian Young 24

Eoin Brosnan 28
Tomas O Shea 33
Shane Enright 22

Bryan Sheehan 25
David Moran 22

Declan O Sullivan 28
Darran O Sullivan 25
Donnacha Walsh 26

Gooch 28
Donaghy 28
Kieran O'Leary 22

Impact Subs: Galvin 31 Barry John Keane 20

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is not an "Aging team"- It is a team in it's prime. It will be another three years before this team even has the start of it's decline.

Perhaps a Dublin Supporter would like to Post the ages of their starting team for the final to get a comparison.


Dublin:

Can score goals. They missed six open chances against Tyrone. They missed at least one yesterday where they player took the wrong option and gave a mis- pass and left it behing them.

Have good forwards. Dublin have one forward. Brogan. He is a star in his own right. They ran up some lovely scores against Tyrone when they had time and space. Against Donegal when they didn't they kicked the ball wide- into space and could not break Donegal down.

Kerry's backline is their primary source of possession- they turn it over and come up the field in a wave. Dublin lost ball after ball to Donegal- if they give away have of this to Kerry they are toast. Cork knew it, Mayo knew it but still weren't able to retain possession.

Cill Dara Abu

Does it really matter if Connolly is suspended or not, he done nothing of note yesterday!

The only decent game he had was against an aging Tyrone full-back line.

listermint

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Just wanted to clear up some misconceptions:

Kerry:

Have a weakness at centre back.
Eoin Brosnan has been outstanding in every single game. Not in patches, but in every minute of every game. He has punched the winning point against Cork, ratched up a few against Limerick in both games and played outstanding against Mayo. When Kerry break he has a cool head and plays the right ball into the forwards.

Have a weakness at the full back line.
Mayo scored one goal. Limerick scored 3 in the Gaelic Grounds but were about 20 points behind at that stage and no one can really say that Kerry were switched on. Cork scored a penalty.

Marc O Shea has been excellent under any high ball and Kealy imo has been instrumental in every Kerry game making fine saves in the Cork, Limerick and Moyo games.

Are an aging Team

They are an evolving team- they have lost Darragh O Shea, Tommy Walsh, Quirke, Scanlon is no longer a starter, Mike McArthy, etc. However:

Kealy 25

Tom O Sullivan 32
Marc O Shea 31
Killian Young 24

Eoin Brosnan 28
Tomas O Shea 33
Shane Enright 22

Bryan Sheehan 25
David Moran 22

Declan O Sullivan 28
Darran O Sullivan 25
Donnacha Walsh 26

Gooch 28
Donaghy 28
Kieran O'Leary 22

Impact Subs: Galvin 31 Barry John Keane 20

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is not an "Aging team"- It is a team in it's prime. It will be another three years before this team even has the start of it's decline.

Perhaps a Dublin Supporter would like to Post the ages of their starting team for the final to get a comparison.


Dublin:

Can score goals. They missed six open chances against Tyrone. They missed at least one yesterday where they player took the wrong option and gave a mis- pass and left it behing them.

Have good forwards. Dublin have one forward. Brogan. He is a star in his own right. They ran up some lovely scores against Tyrone when they had time and space. Against Donegal when they didn't they kicked the ball wide- into space and could not break Donegal down.

Kerry's backline is their primary source of possession- they turn it over and come up the field in a wave. Dublin lost ball after ball to Donegal- if they give away have of this to Kerry they are toast. Cork knew it, Mayo knew it but still weren't able to retain possession.

Okay so how do you explain Mayos ability to have had 3-4 goal chances last time round ? If they were more clinical with the final touch game over.....

Superb backline everytime.........????

King Cantona

Really looking forward to this final. Dublin have been impressive and fairly consistent this year, twice seeing out close games with only 14 men. They never give up and hopefully can be at their best to give Kerry a good game this year.

Thankfully, yesterday´s dullfest against Donegal will stop the usual Dubs hype, and we will go into the game as underdogs - and rightly so imo. Kerry are a formidable force with players that have done the business in Croke Park on many of the biggest occassions.

We all know that old saying that the Kerry team wouldn´t be able to show their faces back home if they lost to Dublin, so with that thought in mind, let´s hope come 19th of September there´ll be many a Kerryman packing his bags for a unscheduled holiday. COME ON THE DUBS

millhouse11

if flynn is out he will be a far bigger loss then connolly, very underreted player in my opinion, a tireless worker for the team, dublin will have no chance without him,

Fireball07

I think Kerry fans are being slightly over-confident tbh. I have no doubt that they have more individually talented players but that doesn't mean they will win. Dublin have a very organised defence and are stronger there than any team Kerry have met so far, and might frustrate them.

Obviously Kerry's forwards are brilliant- Cooper is the best around, the O'Sullivans will cause a constant threat, O'Leary has impressed me enormously and we all know what Donaghy can do. But if they get limited ball or are marked extremely tightly, they won't be as effective. Still, I'd expect at least one of them to have a very good game.

As for midfield, I think that Dublin play their kick-outs safe and build up from the back so the midfield battle isn't as crucial as some make it out to be. And the key point for me is that there will be space for the Dublin forwards to move. They will be marked tightly but there will be a lot more room than against Donegal. Bernard Brogan might be the only genuinely class player there, but they have others who are well capable of taking scores if they have a free shot. If they get room and their backs and midfield come up to support the attack, they will create chances and I think that's where their main hope lies, they are a very fit team.


I hope Kerry win tbh...they play the nicest brand of football about, and I believe that should be rewarded. But it will not be easy and if it comes to a fight in the last 10 minutes, this Dublin team could win it. They've ground out results up to now...I don't think they'll collapse at all.

keane2097

listermint wrote: »

Okay so how do you explain Mayos ability to have had 3-4 goal chances last time round ? If they were more clinical with the final touch game over.....

Superb backline everytime.........????

Only one of the chances Mayo missed was a gilt-edged chance, and they scored immediately after that miss.

The other two or three were difficult chances.

kilns

Ah Mr Incognito is actually Pat Gilroy.

Nice one Pat, talking the Kerry team up, they are flawless in every position and Dublin are second rate no hopers

Brain Stroking

Kerry to win. Smarter on and off the field

listermint

keane2097 wrote: »

Only one of the chances Mayo missed was a gilt-edged chance, and they scored immediately after that miss.

The other two or three were difficult chances.

I would disagree, I think other players of calibre would have taken them and taken them well. They were certain goal opportunities plain an simple. To claim that being one on one with the keeper for 2 and having one defender and a keeper for another as not a goal opportunity is silly.

hanleyc2

JFlah wrote: »

definitely from a Dublin point of view accomodate McMenamin imo a far superior team with him on the field I don,t think O Gara adds a lot and is always in danger of seeing red

Problem with McMenamin is sometimes he looks like a headless chicken, though on his day he can be very effective. O'Gara always runs the risk of getting a card alright and has contributed very little during any match time he has gotten this year.

Maybe Mossy Quinn might get a look in if both Connolly and Flynn are out.

Mr. Incognito

listermint wrote: »

Okay so how do you explain Mayos ability to have had 3-4 goal chances last time round ? If they were more clinical with the final touch game over.....

Superb backline everytime.........????

Every team will have chances in every game- what were the quality of those chances?

Eoin Brosnan (The weak link :rolleyes:) Dived onto Moran's boot for one.
Kealy saved another and the rebound was converted- is that two chances or one?

And that's all I recall. Compared to Declan O Sullivan knocking one wide in the first minute- slapping one off the goalkeepers face in the second half, Gooch burying his, Declan O Sullivan fisting a point.

Are you expecting Kerry to be invincible at the back? No team is- but they are a damn sight stronger than they have been given credit for. People are pointing to all the wrong imaginary weaknesses.

listermint

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Every team will have chances in every game- what were the quality of those chances?

Eoin Brosnan (The weak link :rolleyes:) Dived onto Moran's boot for one.
Kealy saved another and the rebound was converted- is that two chances or one?

And that's all I recall. Compared to Declan O Sullivan knocking one wide in the first minute- slapping one off the goalkeepers face in the second half, Gooch burying his, Declan O Sullivan fisting a point.

Are you expecting Kerry to be invincible at the back? No team is- but they are a damn sight stronger than they have been given credit for. People are pointing to all the wrong imaginary weaknesses.

You claimed Kerrys back line to be invincible. I was displaying that they are not.

no more no less.

keane2097

listermint wrote: »

I would disagree, I think other players of calibre would have taken them and taken them well. They were certain goal opportunities plain an simple. To claim that being one on one with the keeper for 2 and having one defender and a keeper for another as not a goal opportunity is silly.

How many forwards do you think Dublin have that are better than Andy Moran?

As for how good the chances were, I think it's safe to say Dublin missed several chances against Tyrone that were better than anything Mayo missed against Kerry.

Mr. Incognito

kilns wrote: »

Ah Mr Incognito is actually Pat Gilroy.

Nice one Pat, talking the Kerry team up, they are flawless in every position and Dublin are second rate no hopers

You know you remind me of a teenager- how old are you?

People make cogent points and instead of addressing them you come back with hyperbole (Look it up) like this.

It's "I know I am but what are you"

It's not witty. It's quite childish. Try making intelligent points or don't bother contributing.