*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2012*

take everything

Minister Reilly is saying "HPAT should go" according the front page of the IMT.
Haven't got a link (the story doesn't seem to be up on the IMT site yet).
He talks about it creating another industry and another course.

Just Like Heaven

I don't like the hpat. I think there should be something, cause the points were ridiculous a few years ago. But, I don't know. Just not the hpat

CookieMonster.x

take everything wrote: »

Minister Reilly is saying "HPAT should go" according the front page of the IMT.
Haven't got a link (the story doesn't seem to be up on the IMT site yet).
He talks about it creating another industry and another course.

I read it. I don't belies in what he says at all. He says that the Hpat is keeping "talented young people" who get 600 points from becoming GPs. Just because someone gets 600 points it doesn't mean they will make a good doctor. While I agree that the system now is faulty, I believe it was even more faulty before. The Hpat gives a chance to those who may not get 600 points to get into medicine. I do think that the whole system (leaving cert and Hpat) should be changed. I think interviews would be so much better. It would really separate those who really want to do medicine from those who want it for money, the status or because they are being pushed into it.

Just Like Heaven

I dunno how much better interviews would be? A combination of interview, admissions test, vol work etc perhaps. But that's an awful lot of hassle for 600 places or so.

CookieMonster.x

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

I dunno how much better interviews would be? A combination of interview, admissions test, vol work etc perhaps. But that's an awful lot of hassle for 600 places or so.

There wouldn't be much point in interviews as there isn't enough places but it would let those who want to do medicine for genuine reasons in.

reznov

Interviews would be much worse than the HPAT, simply due to a chance of discrimination and bias. Although I personally hold ailments with the HPAT as a screening process, it is much more fair than an interview. For all the faults Ireland's education system may possess, it's merit is fairness. Not a single piece of personal data is handed to universities for consideration in your application to higher education. Everything is based on academic achievement and a central body (CAO) simply manages placements. Interviews would undoubtedly tarnish this positive aspect.

jumpguy

reznov wrote: »

Interviews would be much worse than the HPAT, simply due to a chance of discrimination and bias. Although I personally hold ailments with the HPAT as a screening process, it is much more fair than an interview. For all the faults Ireland's education system may possess, it's merit is fairness. Not a single piece of personal data is handed to universities for consideration in your application to higher education. Everything is based on academic achievement and a central body (CAO) simply manages placements. Interviews would undoubtedly tarnish this positive aspect.

While that personal bias isn't a factor in 3rd level entry here is obviously a major plus for the CAO, the fundamental flaw with the CAO is that it ignores every other aspect of a person that might make them suitable for a course. It also makes it a very one-way choice, i.e. the applicant decides what course is best for them, and the university doesn't decide what applicant is best for their course. In an ideal world, such a 2-way system would result in the most suitable applicants being picked, considering all aspects of the person.

I, for one, am very glad I won't be at the mercy of the CAO ever again! :P

jenny18

DepoProvera wrote: »

Has anyone done the Practice Exams yet? Would be chuffed if it were reflective of the real exam but I sincerely doubt that - Anyone who has done it previously like to comment?

i did it last year and i think there a fair representation bar exam 11&12 they are insanely hard if they came up i would cry
i got 60 64 56 overall 8oth percentile last year
my results so far are about 70 70 30
i just passed section 3 last year through lucky guesses as i ran out of time after doing 15 qs and just randomed it which i would not suggest ever

jenny18

I'm more stressed this year about hpat then last year even though i did really well last year. i didn't get points in case your wondering why the repeat. i think it was easier as i knew less about it.

reznov

Jenny, if you had done well in the HPAT, would you not consider leaving your HPAT score and simply repeating the leaving? It's valid for two years!

At this point, I am still confused as to the complexity of HPAT questions. If they are similar to Practice Tests, not bad. If they are parallel to Medical Entrance exams then oh boy it will be a "fantastic" Saturday >_<

Section 1 is what truly troubles me as practice tests heavily weigh attention on comprehension in contrast to the gigantic text MedEntrance problem solving questions.

Has anyone who completed the HPAT recently, comment on difficulty? I am aware S3 is meant to be easier on the actual exam.

deathbythelc

I have done little to no preparation for this. I'm going to have a breakdown in there.

I wish I had money to pay for prep courses.

*this is me waiting for someone to say prep courses don't help*

jumpguy

reznov wrote: »

Jenny, if you had done well in the HPAT, would you not consider leaving your HPAT score and simply repeating the leaving? It's valid for two years!

At this point, I am still confused as to the complexity of HPAT questions. If they are similar to Practice Tests, not bad. If they are parallel to Medical Entrance exams then oh boy it will be a "fantastic" Saturday >_<

Section 1 is what truly troubles me as practice tests heavily weigh attention on comprehension in contrast to the gigantic text MedEntrance problem solving questions.

Has anyone who completed the HPAT recently, comment on difficulty? I am aware S3 is meant to be easier on the actual exam.

Compared to MedÉntry, I felt the HPAT questions were more fair, especially in section 3. There was a few very challenging ones, but none that were not doable (just doing them in the time provided was the challenge...)

Section 2 is much harder in the real HPAT than in the first official ACER practice test (the oldest of the two). I think the second official practice test gets a bit closer to difficulty. The biggest problem is having two answers that seem suitable but having to pick one...I think going with your first instinct is the best way out of it - and not to stop and think and become embroiled in confusion!

Section 1 is quite challenging in the real thing I thought, but the official practice tests weren't deceivingly easy or anything. I can't really remember what it was like in comparison to MédÉntry, sorry, hard to believe my HPAT was nearly a year ago now!

Best of luck! Keep calm on the run-up and relax in the few days before the HPAT, and make keeping focussed and calm no matter what happens (having to guess a few questions or whatever) your priority in the HPAT!

QueenOfLeon

reznov wrote: »

Section 1 is what truly troubles me as practice tests heavily weigh attention on comprehension in contrast to the gigantic text MedEntrance problem solving questions.

Has anyone who completed the HPAT recently, comment on difficulty? I am aware S3 is meant to be easier on the actual exam.

I cannot comment on the difficulty in comparison to prep courses, only to the actual sample HPAT booklets given out. In 2009, Section 1 was similar to the practise booklet, (short, easier questions to start off with much longer and complicated ones later on), a little bit more complex maybe. Section 3 was slightly easier, although there are still a few tricky ones and the section is time consuming.

The biggest shock at the time was Section 2, which was hugely different to the sample booklet. The sample one was almost too easy, so maybe they have changed it in the booklet since then. The standard of vocabulary in the list of possible answers was very high - I would have been an avid reader all throughout school and even with that I had never heard of some of those words. That was the most off putting section in the whole thing.

deathbythelc wrote: »

I have done little to no preparation for this. I'm going to have a breakdown in there.

I wish I had money to pay for prep courses.

*this is me waiting for someone to say prep courses don't help*

There's no evidence to say that the prep courses make any difference. Familiarise yourself with timing, stay calm and relaxed on the day and get a good nights sleep and breakfast before going to it...don't go in feeling at a disadvantage cos loads of people have done these courses, you're all on level footing!

jenny18

reznov wrote: »

Jenny, if you had done well in the HPAT, would you not consider leaving your HPAT score and simply repeating the leaving? It's valid for two years!

At this point, I am still confused as to the complexity of HPAT questions. If they are similar to Practice Tests, not bad. If they are parallel to Medical Entrance exams then oh boy it will be a "fantastic" Saturday >_<

Section 1 is what truly troubles me as practice tests heavily weigh attention on comprehension in contrast to the gigantic text MedEntrance problem solving questions.

Has anyone who completed the HPAT recently, comment on difficulty? I am aware S3 is meant to be easier on the actual exam.

I know it's valid for two year I got 179, meaning last year I needed 550 leaving cert points minimum.
But with the extra points for maths I possibly, not saying I will, I don't know how the points will change this year, but I might need 575.
Although 179 was good last year, the year before 169 was needed with 550, whereas last year I would have needed 600 points with 169.
So by repeating the hpat and hopefully doing better and going up in my percentile rank I reduce the number of points I need in the leaving.
and as outside of science I'm really only average ie French, maths, English, The less points I need the better.
Good luck to everyone Saturday stay calm and remember there are a 100 other ways to become a doctor it is not the end of the world if you don't get it this time.

jenny18

deathbythelc wrote: »

I have done little to no preparation for this. I'm going to have a breakdown in there.

I wish I had money to pay for prep courses.

*this is me waiting for someone to say prep courses don't help*

the only prep i did last year was right before the exam i borrowed someone's acer book and i got 179.
the real advantage most people doing prep courses are there calm they have there timing worked out and know what to expect.
also if you can read fast and read a lot of fiction you're sorted for section 1 and 2. So don't stress if it doesn't happen then you can take a year out work and do prep course if you still think it would help. or just do graduate entry the worst thing you can do is stress so don't. it will all work out in the end.

Fiachra_LC12

Is anybody else really stressed out because their pres and the HPAT are clashing around the time of 20th-25th of february? I'm trying to get every shaggin' thing looked at but only getting really frustrated in the process! what a balls! Let me know if ye're in the same boat as me

Orange juice

EXACT SAME!!! :mad: I have a monday to friday of mocks this week! Contemplating missing friday so I can chillax but I'll proberly become too worried sitting at home!!!

dovahkiin

Do yourself a favour and concentrate on your HPAT, The mocks count for nothing. Your hard work after the HPAT will make up for time lost

**Timbuk2**

HPAT is essential for entry into medicine - it's a tough exam, that requires you to be focused and alert on the day.

Mocks/pres: Worth 0.00% of your LC results.

If there's anything which contributes to your chances of getting into college (HPAT/interviews/portfolios/orals etc.) then it should always take preference over the mocks. There's no point being tired and stressed from your mocks while taking your HPAT.

Fiachra_LC12

It's a bloody joke! I was told the HPAT was introduced to reduce the pressure on students to get 600 points in the Leaving Cert...All its done is made me twice as anxious and its affecting how effectively I study for everything, not to mention crushing my confidence Having a proper rant here!! :P

PictureFrame

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

HPAT is essential for entry into medicine - it's a tough exam, that requires you to be focused and alert on the day.

Mocks/pres: Worth 0.00% of your LC results.

If there's anything which contributes to your chances of getting into college (HPAT/interviews/portfolios/orals etc.) then it should always take preference over the mocks. There's no point being tired and stressed from your mocks while taking your HPAT.

Happens every year AFAIK. Happened to my cousin last year, think he got 430 in the Mocks as he wanted to focus on the HPAT, he is now half way through 1st Year Medicine in UCD.

Forget the mocks, they're a load of shíte tbh, I have mine done since last Friday and it will be probably 2 weeks more until we see one of our papers as they're being sent away!

Fiachra_LC12

Thanks timbuk2 and dovahkiin. It's good to hear a bit of advice other than from teachers

reznov

Thanks a million guys! Certainly reduces my stress. I couldn't imagine sitting through an exam which parallels Medical Entry. Would rather lock myself up on Shutter Island :mad: not really stressed, even excited! Want to witness what the convoluted Section 2 resembles.

PREP courses are not mandatory, they allow familiarisation with the exam and excellent practice for section 3. Several of my acquaintances having completed practice booklets, practically got everything right in Section 3 without any prep. After completing the actual HPAT I'll have a more enlightened opinion.

Crush525

The other problem is a lot of people from the United Kingdom may be tempted to come to Ireland, due to the fee increase there. I'm also guessing only the LC Mathematics get the 25 extra points and not Mathematics at A-Level?

In regards to the HPAT, just make sure you have good time management, don't get stressed and practice a bit. If you're the type who feels they need to do work, then do it, if you don't feel you need to, then don't. It's really all about your mindset going in.

If you don't get it this time, try next year. That's what I'm doing, after missing out on random selection (Yep, I had the points, but lost out due to random selection. Bitter disappointment). I mean a career in Medicine can last decades. What's one extra year going to matter, where you can have the time to get extra skills?

0mega

reznov wrote: »

Interviews would be much worse than the HPAT, simply due to a chance of discrimination and bias. Although I personally hold ailments with the HPAT as a screening process, it is much more fair than an interview. For all the faults Ireland's education system may possess, it's merit is fairness. Not a single piece of personal data is handed to universities for consideration in your application to higher education. Everything is based on academic achievement and a central body (CAO) simply manages placements. Interviews would undoubtedly tarnish this positive aspect.

I would love it if it were interview process. At the end of the day, when you take into the account all the people who are capable of getting this course and the fierce competition there is to get into it - I think the most important thing should be who genuinely wants it the most and why they think they are suited to the medical profession. I think an interview would be able to distinguish between these people and the people who want the course for other reasons.

I don't really see how the HPAT test determines who the best candidates for medicine are, but then again - neither does 600 points in the leaving cert.

Perhaps if an interview was introduced alongside the HPAT and the marks were split 50/50 between the two.

Just Like Heaven

Crush525 wrote: »

I'm also guessing only the LC Mathematics get the 25 extra points and not Mathematics at A-Level?

Nah they do

daithioc

You won't be regretting not studying for your mocks when your hpat results come out. Nor will you regret it next year. Nor ever.

daithioc

If they did it by interview, then interview prep courses would probably spring up. I couldn't see the situation being very dissimilar than the HPAT situation atm. A bit, but not loads.

Bbbbolger

And who would conduct the interviews? As has already been mentioned, in Ireland there's always been people using existing connections to succeed in interwiews etc. No reason why that wouldn't continue. At least with the situation as it is now we're all on an equal footing. It's definitely not a perfect system but it's better than just using L.C points alone and I think an interview based system could be even more damaging.

HCCCM

Omg pres and hpat just do not go well together it's like having I dono tea with salt lol how do u even study for hpat ?!