Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

zol 2

Bad news for both club and county,both u21 and senior. DLS looked impressive tonight. It's going to take a serious team to beat them on this performance. Jack Kennedy looks to be the final piece in the jigsaw

KevIRL

Jesus thats terrible news for young Mahony. Hope he recovers well.

deisedude

KevIRL wrote: »

Jesus thats terrible news for young Mahony. Hope he recovers well.

Is Phillip injured too does anyone know. Heard he had a groin injury?

KevIRL

Here's a very interesting championship preview from RTE featuring Liam Griffin, Justin McCarthy and Eddie Brennan. Big discussion about the general health of hurling as welll and what can be done to improve it. Very interesting to hear some in depth thoughts from the most interesting hurling people about over the past few years imo (Griffin and McCarthy), also Brennan makes plenty of good points too



http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/319743/

The blue blaa

zol 2 wrote: »

Bad news for both club and county,both u21 and senior. DLS looked impressive tonight. It's going to take a serious team to beat them on this performance. Jack Kennedy looks to be the final piece in the jigsaw

I thought Eoin Madigan,Dean Twomey and Jake Dillon were immense for DLS.. As for Mount Sion John dee was very impressive especially at sideline balls. Mount Sion were very poor overall.

Cake Man

The blue blaa wrote: »

I thought Eoin Madigan,Dean Twomey and Jake Dillon were immense for DLS.. As for Mount Sion John dee was very impressive especially at sideline balls. Mount Sion were very poor overall.

Agreed, all the above did very well. DLS half back line of Madigan, Moran and Daniels dominated. Dillon did well up front and must have got about 2-6. Jack Kennedy looks to have slotted in nicely too with a good display.
John Dee did well for MS, great sideline balls but their attack was so limited, they couldn't make much use of anything going in there. Martin O'Neill did well I thought, good from dead balls and made some nice catches.

Unfortunate to hear about Paudric Mahony but look it, it's probably for the best he just gets it done with now. Heard he's been fairly burnt out in the last year with senior and U21 for club and county, (BG playing up to Xmas nearly) pre-season with Waterford and Fitzgibbon with UCC and then straight back into the national league with Waterford. Couldn't have helped the injury.

deisebhoy17

The blue blaa wrote: »

As for Mount Sion John dee was very impressive especially at sideline balls. Mount Sion were very poor overall.

And he a portlaw man, tells u all u need to know

deisebhoy17

KevIRL wrote: »

Jesus thats terrible news for young Mahony. Hope he recovers well.

I genuinely feel and have for a while, that players just out of minor should not be picked for the co. senior hurling panel. They should be given a years rest to concentrate on u21 and club commitments in order to tackle the player burnout issue.I know its hard to say it now when weve lads like Jake Dillon and Gavin O'Brien there at the moment who we all want to see week in week out but the amount of hurling some of these lads have played in the last few years in colossal and cant be that good in the long run.
Paudi Mahony was thrown straight into it by last years management and while he ended up being nominated for young player of the year Im not sure it was right to do for him with the responsibility of being the freetaker ect. Since 07 when DLS won their first AI colleges Paudi has been on the go literally 24/7 with school, college club and county. Did he really need to be going straight into the intense county senior hurling training as soon as he was out of minor? I see Noel Connors is also struggling this year, Brian O'Hallaron has struggled for the last 2 years. These lads have a phonomenal amount of sport played even at this early stage for their careers. I know players are going to get injured but they need to be given the best possible chance aswell, otherwise they'll be washed up in their mid-twenties.
Maybe not the best example but Joe Canning took a year out after minor when the entire country was waiting anxiously to see him and it turned out to be a very smart decision for him, even if his teamates have constantly under-achieved.

Orizio

Is it true the Waterford Minor hurlers goalkeeper has been dropped by his club for not playing in a challenge game for them five days before the Clare game?

KevIRL

Orizio wrote: »

Is it true the Waterford Minor hurlers goalkeeper has been dropped by his club for not playing in a challenge game for them five days before the Clare game?

I read that on AFR, nutty if true.

The blue blaa

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

KevIRL wrote: »

Jesus thats terrible news for young Mahony. Hope he recovers well.

I genuinely feel and have for a while, that players just out of minor should not be picked for the co. senior hurling panel. They should be given a years rest to concentrate on u21 and club commitments in order to tackle the player burnout issue.I know its hard to say it now when weve lads like Jake Dillon and Gavin O'Brien there at the moment who we all want to see week in week out but the amount of hurling some of these lads have played in the last few years in colossal and cant be that good in the long run.
Paudi Mahony was thrown straight into it by last years management and while he ended up being nominated for young player of the year Im not sure it was right to do for him with the responsibility of being the freetaker ect. Since 07 when DLS won their first AI colleges Paudi has been on the go literally 24/7 with school, college club and county. Did he really need to be going straight into the intense county senior hurling training as soon as he was out of minor? I see Noel Connors is also struggling this year, Brian O'Hallaron has struggled for the last 2 years. These lads have a phonomenal amount of sport played even at this early stage for their careers. I know players are going to get injured but they need to be given the best possible chance aswell, otherwise they'll be washed up in their mid-twenties.
Maybe not the best example but Joe Canning took a year out after minor when the entire country was waiting anxiously to see him and it turned out to be a very smart decision for him, even if his teamates have constantly under-achieved.

I agree with you there. Jake has been dropped off senior panel but if he keeps performing like he did last nite he'd have to be called back especially with Paidi Mahoney out now for possibly 3 months.

glick6

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

I genuinely feel and have for a while, that players just out of minor should not be picked for the co. senior hurling panel. They should be given a years rest to concentrate on u21 and club commitments in order to tackle the player burnout issue.I know its hard to say it now when weve lads like Jake Dillon and Gavin O'Brien there at the moment who we all want to see week in week out but the amount of hurling some of these lads have played in the last few years in colossal and cant be that good in the long run.
Paudi Mahony was thrown straight into it by last years management and while he ended up being nominated for young player of the year Im not sure it was right to do for him with the responsibility of being the freetaker ect. Since 07 when DLS won their first AI colleges Paudi has been on the go literally 24/7 with school, college club and county. Did he really need to be going straight into the intense county senior hurling training as soon as he was out of minor? I see Noel Connors is also struggling this year, Brian O'Hallaron has struggled for the last 2 years. These lads have a phonomenal amount of sport played even at this early stage for their careers. I know players are going to get injured but they need to be given the best possible chance aswell, otherwise they'll be washed up in their mid-twenties.
Maybe not the best example but Joe Canning took a year out after minor when the entire country was waiting anxiously to see him and it turned out to be a very smart decision for him, even if his teamates have constantly under-achieved.

Research coming out in the past few years points to high load and intensity of training between the years of 15-18 as being at the root of player burnout. Its during these ages when young lads bodies are still growing and maturing that they are most susceptible to chronic overuse leading to injuries. I wouldnt have as much of issue with bringing 18 year olds into the senior panel, id have more of an issue with the likes of Harty etc increasing the load on younger players while they're still growing. You can have a very good 16 year old playing juvenile and minor club, county, schools etc. Throw in a bit of football on top of that too. Unless they have perfect biomechanics they'l pick up some niggle along the way. Absolutely crazy stuff. If you want to compare training load and intensity to say, youth professional soccer players in academies across the water. Rest days and prolonged rest periods, couple with set, determined times away from the gym/weights room are enforced with the simple aim of allowing growing bodies the time to actually rest and recover, sometimes less is more when it comes to performance.

Black Suir

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Repeating myself here but Just thinking if Cork came through the backdoor surely they cant meet limerick again? so we would meet cork or limerick? Wouldnt mind avoiding Tipp tbh

First Round draw and semi final draws are made in the late autumn/early winter months of the previous years. Who played who in the first round has no bearing on the semi final draws. There is nothing to stop teams that met in the first round doing so again in the semi finals. Didnt Clare beat Waterford in Fraher Field in 09 and Waterford having beaten Limerick in the play offs went on to play CLare in the semi finals at Ennis where we beat them before going on to win the Munster Final.

zol 2

Orizio wrote: »

Is it true the Waterford Minor hurlers goalkeeper has been dropped by his club for not playing in a challenge game for them five days before the Clare game?

I heard this aswell,the missus is from up that direction and when i was up there earlier i spoke to some of the "natives"and they said that it is strongly rumoured but that the team isn't being announced until tomorrow. If this is the case it's a disgrace in my opinion especially when i heard that no issue was taken with lads playing soccer final's that couldn't tog out for a challenge game the night before it in case of injury! I've actually met Seanie on several occasions and you wouldn't meet a more nicer,determined 17 yr old anywhere. He,through his own dedication and personal training has lost over 2 stone over the winter period and if this is the case tomorrow il really feel for him. He has played all there games up to now so you would imagine even from a team point of view it won't settle their backline,puckouts etc. It is an interesting one alright.

Black Suir

Giveitfong wrote: »

It is noteworthy that twelve different clubs were represented in the starting line-up, with four additional clubs featuring among the substitutes used. Nine of the 16 clubs in question are non-senior clubs. This points to the role of both Bord nÓg and the county’s secondary schools in allowing talented players from smaller clubs to come to the fore.

Well said. And to listen to some from some associated with some of the bigger clubs (not the clubs themselves) we should feel privilaged for the players they are supplying to the different county teams. Many of these players from the non senior teams at this point could go on to be vital to Waterfords hopes in the future.

Black Suir

zol 2 wrote: »

Giveitfong i must congratulate you on an absolutely brilliant summing up of the game. I was in Ennis and i have to agree with every single description you have made of it. The Austin Gleeson not starting,the Tom Tobin not being used as the fullback so as to release Tadgh De Burcha,and finally,the placing of Conor Sheehan at cornerback at the start of the second half all need to be seriously questioned. All was not well in the camp as late as 3 weeks ago and only for the players looking for more hurling to be done in training they would have been turned in to marathon runners! I seriously feel they need to bring in an established hurling coach for the next 8 weeks,someone who will get the maximum hurling wise out of these bunch of dedicated players and help us play our BEST team and play to our best potential. A lot of things i feel going on behind the scenes that are for personal club glory and anti Harty Cup rather than the betterment of the team will eventually cause the downfall of these minors if its not acted on ASAP.
WELL DONE AGAIN GIVEITFONG.

Have to agree and at the risk of getting shot here, I would say that man would be Peter Power. A Few years back, Dungarvan CBS and Colaiste na nDeise brought him in to look after their teams and they have not looked back since.

Black Suir

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

I dont know the ins and the outs but this isnt good if true. Young lads want and need to hurl. Theres enough politics and player revolt at senior level. Is it the same management as last year?

No changed again. Is this the fourth year in a row we have different selectors. Maybe there might be one or two that was involved two years in a row, but the majority are changed.

Black Suir

Orizio wrote: »

Is it true the Waterford Minor hurlers goalkeeper has been dropped by his club for not playing in a challenge game for them five days before the Clare game?

Rumour has it he is Lismore's first choice keeper this year an Brendan Landers is playing in the forwards.

Mountainlad

Black Suir wrote: »

Rumour has it he is Lismore's first choice keeper this year an Brendan Landers is playing in the forwards.

:eek:

Cake Man

Mountainlad wrote: »

:eek:

:eek: also! When did "Cider" start playing in the forwards!? To be fair, it wouldn't be a bad thing for Seanie Barry to become established no.1 and get more games, that's of course if he gets the go ahead. :rolleyes:

suitcasepink

Black Suir wrote: »

Rumour has it he is Lismore's first choice keeper this year an Brendan Landers is playing in the forwards.

I heard that also.. Wing forward they were supposedly playing him!
Be interesting to see how it fairs out

redlead

Did anyone head down to Fraher last night? The first game was very poor. Roanmore have a serious amount of work to do if they want to stay at senior. Hard judge fourmile but they looked very sharp in the first half. Jamie Barron is some player, that was the first time Ive seen him play in the forwards and he didn't disappoint. It will be interesting to see where he ends up for Waterford.

The second match was a much more interesting affair but wasn't great either to be honest. Its only the start of the championship I suppose so both teams should improve considerably.

Can someone post up the score of the Mount Sion DLS game please?

Cake Man

redlead wrote: »

Did anyone head down to Fraher last night? The first game was very poor. Roanmore have a serious amount of work to do if they want to stay at senior. Hard judge fourmile but they looked very sharp in the first half. Jamie Barron is some player, that was the first time Ive seen him play in the forwards and he didn't disappoint. It will be interesting to see where he ends up for Waterford.

The second match was a much more interesting affair but wasn't great either to be honest. Its only the start of the championship I suppose so both teams should improve considerably.

Can someone post up the score of the Mount Sion DLS game please?

DLS 3-16 Sion 1-13

Good to hear Barron doing well, did he score much? Always thought he was a bit wasted at corner back for the county in recent times and offers more in attack. One of those players though that you could play him anywhere and he'd look good. How did Shane Walsh and Gavin O'Brien get on?
Any sign of Foley back for Abbeyside?

redlead

Cake Man wrote: »

redlead wrote: »

Did anyone head down to Fraher last night? The first game was very poor. Roanmore have a serious amount of work to do if they want to stay at senior. Hard judge fourmile but they looked very sharp in the first half. Jamie Barron is some player, that was the first time Ive seen him play in the forwards and he didn't disappoint. It will be interesting to see where he ends up for Waterford.

The second match was a much more interesting affair but wasn't great either to be honest. Its only the start of the championship I suppose so both teams should improve considerably.

Can someone post up the score of the Mount Sion DLS game please?

DLS 3-16 Sion 1-13

Good to hear Barron doing well, did he score much? Always thought he was a bit wasted at corner back for the county in recent times and offers more in attack. One of those players though that you could play him anywhere and he'd look good. How did Shane Walsh and Gavin O'Brien get on?
Any sign of Foley back for Abbeyside?

yeah Foley was playing wing back. He had an alright game without being spectacular. Hes a great player though and hopefully he'll be back to his best soon.

Gavin O'Brien played as well as he could considering Roanmore just didn't show up. He spent a lot of time around midfield trying to get their attack going. They are relying a lot on him.

I don't mean any offence to the lad but Roanmore had a lad playing at full forward who must have been 20 stone at least. Im shocked that a senior team can have someone so unfit playing for them.

I wasnt keeping very good track of the scorers so this is by no means accurate but I'd say Baron finished with about 1-3.

Mountainlad

redlead wrote: »

yeah Foley was playing wing back. He had an alright game without being spectacular. Hes a great player though and hopefully he'll be back to his best soon.

Gavin O'Brien played as well as he could considering Roanmore just didn't show up. He spent a lot of time around midfield trying to get their attack going. They are relying a lot on him.

I don't mean any offence to the lad but Roanmore had a lad playing at full forward who must have been 20 stone at least. Im shocked that a senior team can have someone so unfit playing for them.

I wasnt keeping very good track of the scorers so this is by no means accurate but I'd say Baron finished with about 1-3.

To be fair to the lad full forward, he got on a decent bit of ball. Saw him play before, he has a great shot and he's not as immobile as you'd think he'd be.

Barron finished with 1-2 from play I think.

Roanmore's best player were Eoin Madigan and I suppose Gavin O'Brien though I think he was well contained generally.

Fourmilewater played quite well first half, they declined a lot second half but I suppose that's natural. Not great preparation for them for next week against De La Salle though.

As for Roanmore, well they'll probably avoid relegation on account of Dunhill being a poor outfit too, though the scoring potential of Eamon Murphy and Shane Casey could cause trouble. I think one of those two will go down.

For anybody that's wondering the scores from yesterday in Fraher Field were:

Fourmilewater 3-12 Roanmore 0-7

Ballygunner 0-17 Abbeyside 0-12

tus.maith

Weekend results

Group 1
Lismore 1-20 Dungarvan 1-17
Ballygunner 0-17, Abbeyside 0-12
Passage 1-13, Ballyduff Upper 0-15

Group 2
Tallow 2-16, Dunhill 1-13
Fourmilewater 3-12, Roanmore 0-7
De la Salle 3-16, Mt. Sion 1-13


Overall nothing to be enthused about. Lismore, Dungarvan was the only really competitive game of the weekend. Ballygunner still look good, but not firing on all cylinders, just doing enough to tick over. Roanmore and to some extent Dunhill well out of their depth. FMW looking impressive, touch and hurling better than most teams, but need to be judged against better opposition. DLS still look the team to beat though.


Next weeks games:
Sat 12th, Abbeyside, v Passage, 7:30 Walsh Park

Sat 12th, FMW v De la Salle, 6:00, Fraher Field
Sat 12th, Tallow v Roanmore, 7:30, Fraher Field

Sun, 13th, Mt Sion v Dunhill, 2:00, Walsh Park
Sun 13th, Ballygunner v Dungarvan, 3:30 Walsh Park

Sun 13th, Lismore v Ballyduff, 7:00 Fraher Field


A few good games in prospect, but in reality the championship is seriously lacking any edge. Most teams could in effect lose 3 games and still make it to the quarter finals. There were very poor crowds at most of the games this weekend. A change to a knock-out system, where you get one more chance if you lose, is badly needed.
As it stands we have round after round of meaningless games. It is clear now that there's no doubt but that Dunhill and Roanmore will not qualify from group 2, and will receive beating after beating.

Finally, the most worrying aspect of the weekend was the average to poor standard of hurling in most games, in fact some of the intermediate games looked better than some of the seniors.

Not a great weekend of hurling, here's hoping for better next weekend.

abbeysideFB4L

What were the intermediate games like over the weekend? who looks strong?

tus.maith

Re Western Intermediate Games

West Intermediate Hurling Championship Group 1

Modeligo 1-12 vs 3-14 Clashmore/Kinsalebeg
An tSráidbhaile 0-13 vs 0-6 Tourin Ballinwillin
Cappoquin Affane 1-18 vs 0-6 Shamrocks


Group 2
Abbeyside 4-11 Brickeys 2-13
Ballinameela 2-10 An Rinn 2-22


Clashmore looking good against Modeligo, they've alot of work done, with football especially, but have some good hurlers, including Brian O Halloran.

Stradbally had a good victory against a weakened Tourin team. Tourin of course beaten Intermediate champions last year, short the sevies of 3 or 4 regulars. Cappoquin never in doubt against the Shamrocks.

Group 2 saw a good win for Abbeyside's second 15 while an Rinn put in a good hour against last years junior champions Ballinameela. An Rinn v Ardmore next weekend will be a crucial game in that group.

Overall, Ardmore, Cappoquin, Tourin, Stradbally should be in with the best chance of winning what is one of the most competitive championships in Waterford.

Interesting to note there was almost a bigger crowd in Lismore for the Shamrocks Cappoquin game than the senior double header in Dungarvan. The gate was almost 700, which only had a €5 and €3 entrance.

Lesson maybe for the County Board, where €8 for a single senior game is a bit too much in these days. Lower it to €5 and you get a bigger crowd and still make the same money.

Mountainlad

tus.maith wrote: »

Weekend results

Group 1
Lismore 1-20 Dungarvan 1-17
Ballygunner 0-17, Abbeyside 0-12
Passage 1-13, Ballyduff Upper 0-15

Group 2
Tallow 2-16, Dunhill 1-13
Fourmilewater 3-12, Roanmore 0-7
De la Salle 3-16, Mt. Sion 1-13


Overall nothing to be enthused about. Lismore, Dungarvan was the only really competitive game of the weekend. Ballygunner still look good, but not firing on all cylinders, just doing enough to tick over. Roanmore and to some extent Dunhill well out of their depth. FMW looking impressive, touch and hurling better than most teams, but need to be judged against better opposition. DLS still look the team to beat though.


Next weeks games:
Sat 12th, Abbeyside, v Passage, 7:30 Walsh Park

Sat 12th, FMW v De la Salle, 6:00, Fraher Field
Sat 12th, Tallow v Roanmore, 7:30, Fraher Field

Sun, 13th, Mt Sion v Dunhill, 2:00, Walsh Park
Sun 13th, Ballygunner v Dungarvan, 3:30 Walsh Park

Sun 13th, Lismore v Ballyduff, 7:00 Fraher Field


A few good games in prospect, but in reality the championship is seriously lacking any edge. Most teams could in effect lose 3 games and still make it to the quarter finals. There were very poor crowds at most of the games this weekend. A change to a knock-out system, where you get one more chance if you lose, is badly needed.
As it stands we have round after round of meaningless games. It is clear now that there's no doubt but that Dunhill and Roanmore will not qualify from group 2, and will receive beating after beating.

Finally, the most worrying aspect of the weekend was the average to poor standard of hurling in most games, in fact some of the intermediate games looked better than some of the seniors.

Not a great weekend of hurling, here's hoping for better next weekend.

Some people saying we haven't enough competitive games, some people saying the amount needs to be cut. I don't Dunhill and Roanmore will get better with less games, nor will any team for that matter. The early rounds of any championship will have some dead rubbers, I'd say the attendance at club games in Tipp is easily worse.

I like this system, at least you get the opportunity to see a few good games. I thought Mount Sion v DLS would be a good game but obviously that's not how it transpired. FMW v DLS should certainly be a good game, Lismore v Ballygunner as well whenever that is, and I'm sure there'll be a few more.

They say that the all-ireland doesn't start til the quarter finals, so probably a bit much to expect fireworks in the first round of the county championship, I'd say the game will do most teams good.

Cake Man

^^
I'd agree with that, less games isn't going to make things better. Lads training all winter for championship are not going to want to have one or two games and their summer is over. I think the way it is is fine, as the group games get played off, we'll get a better idea of who's in the mix up for quarter finals and there should hopefully be some good games then when teams will be going out needing a win to get a QF place.
Would agree with tus maith though that €8 for a single senior game is a bit much, a fiver would be more appropriate and would bring a bigger crowd.

So did Seanie Barry start in goal for Lismore yesterday after the whole being dropped saga?