Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

alllcounty

Psychedelic wrote: »

Shame to see Power leave the panel. Must be very frustrating for him to see someone who hasn't been on the panel in years to come in and get a place ahead of him.

He is the difference of us conceding one less goal per game based on his shot stopping ability. We were already missing cover for the corner back positions as a result of not calling up Jerome Maher who I thought did well in the league last year, the retirement of Eoin Murphy and now our best goalkeeper been overlooked again. Not looking too good to stopping the concession of goals. Iggy is too small for a goalie imo and doesn't make himself big enough for the advancing forward and SOK isn't fully matured yet and sometimes get's caught out with the ball when coming out of the goal. Not looking too good again in the early stages of this year.

suitcasepink

Ahh I think its fair to say Power had his faults too.. Shur he can make as good a save as the greats can/could but he is definitely capable of leaving in a howler.. Im sure we've all seen him get caught with the ball just dropping under the bar and he going to catch it, fumbles and the next thing it rolls quietly over the white line, not even reaching the back of the net.
Surely leaving in awful goals like that is a bigger fault than not saving the hard ones?

waterford1988

i think this is a sign of the managers lack of organisational skills.

It is now the norm for intercounty panels to have 3 keepers for training...started by donal o grady with cusack, nash and coleman each pushing each other in training.

The 3 best keepers in the county are o 'keeffe, power and iggy.

I believe the row was about michael ryan telling power to play outfield in a training match. Asking a keeper to make up the numbers outfield in training is one of the worst insults for any goalie.

This could have been all avoided if he had a goalkeeping coach and he sent power over to work one on one with the coach on a weak point of his game(catching high ball-in my opinion simply because he actually attacks the ball too much) if he had wanted a look at iggy and o'keeffe behind various defences.

It's all just poor man management/organisation in my opinion.

Mountainlad

I'd say it was inevitable anyway.

Ballyduff people were saying that Power was considering emmigrating to Australia he was so disillusioned at not getting the chance last year. He wouldn't have been satisfied to sit on the bench or wait it out. I have no idea why decided to, whether there was a row or whatever but the bottom line is he was probably going to leave sooner or later if it wasn't made clear that he was first choice, which he obviously isn't.

Mountainlad

alllcounty wrote: »

He is the difference of us conceding one less goal per game based on his shot stopping ability. We were already missing cover for the corner back positions as a result of not calling up Jerome Maher who I thought did well in the league last year, the retirement of Eoin Murphy and now our best goalkeeper been overlooked again. Not looking too good to stopping the concession of goals. Iggy is too small for a goalie imo and doesn't make himself big enough for the advancing forward and SOK isn't fully matured yet and sometimes get's caught out with the ball when coming out of the goal. Not looking too good again in the early stages of this year.

Without meaning an disrespect to him, I don't agree. He was average against Tipp, had to be taken off at half time against either Dublin or Galway, and while it was unfair on him to be thrown into the Munster Final he was out of his depth.

I've never seen him play for Geraldines but I heard he doesn't absolutely dominate. It must be extremely hard to play Senior inter county coming from a Junior Club (again no disrespect meant to any Junior clubs).

And to be fair, criticisms of Power largely centre around him rushing out with the ball. Stephen O'Keefe looked very composed to me against DLS this year and I was impressed that his immediate concern was getting rid of any danger that befell the Ballygunner goal.

Power is in my opinion the best shot stopper in Waterford but he is very dodgy under a high ball and for every brilliant save he might make, you have a lot more high balls to deal with in a match then shots on goal. My one concern about Stephen O'Keeffe would be that he's very young but we'll see how he goes if he starts in a league game.

Iggy hasn't done anything wrong in my view as yet. Any inter county player that misses from where the Cork players scored from last weekend should in my opinion hang up their boots, so I couldn't fault him for letting those goals in. People are ridiculously quick to question Keepers, it's an incredibly tough position to play when you see first hand how hard the ball travels and how small the ball is.

deisebhoy17

This could be a huge regret, the management have to get onto this straight away and get him back and give him the chance he deserves. He is the best shot stopper in the county no doubt about that and has never got a decent chance. I dont think he has ever played more than 2 consecutive games for waterford and never had the chance to grow into the position.

I know his 3rd level qualification is in construction so its obvious why he'd want to emigrate. Hes been doing a bit of DJing at weekends to keep things going theres no doubt if he was givena decent chance hed stick around for this year at least

Mountainlad

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

This could be a huge regret, the management have to get onto this straight away and get him back and give him the chance he deserves. He is the best shot stopper in the county no doubt about that and has never got a decent chance. I dont think he has ever played more than 2 consecutive games for waterford and never had the chance to grow into the position.

I know his 3rd level qualification is in construction so its obvious why he'd want to emigrate. Hes been doing a bit of DJing at weekends to keep things going theres no doubt if he was givena decent chance hed stick around for this year at least

True, I don't think I've even seen him play 2 consecutive games in a row for Waterford. He must be doing something wrong though.

deisedude

Ah lads getting worried by all this now. No smoke without fire as they so but hopefully i'm wrong

Power must be disillusioned, having served his apprenticeship under Clinton for a few years and thinking the position is his when he retires. Then you have a fella who wasn't even on the panel for the past few years coming and taking your place and seemingly O'Keefe in front of him aswell if the training ground thing is true

No disrespect to Iggy but i really don't think he is intercounty material, good club keeper no doubt. To lose a player of Power's potential strikes of bad man management to me

Cake Man

Disappointing about Power if it is indeed true. Of Power, O’Keeffe and O’Regan, the one I’d like to see number 1 is Power. Just think at present he offers the most to the position. I know his degree is in building construction and there’s not much happening at present, the first thought was that he was upping sticks to Oz/Canada etc. but it seems he has become basically p!ssed off at not getting a fair chance.
It kinda begs the question is there even a need for three keepers. I mean if there’s a training match, only two keepers can play and one loses out (in Power’s case if it is the case that he was asked to go outfield to make up numbers).
Unless I see a quote however, I’ll remain somewhat sceptical on the situation but it’s not very welcome news ahead of Sunday.

deisedude

Cake Man wrote: »

It kinda begs the question is there even a need for three keepers. I mean if there’s a training match, only two keepers can play and one loses out (in Power’s case if it is the case that he was asked to go outfield to make up numbers).

Agree exactly about the keepers. How many years was Clinton playing? Don't think he ever missed a championship game, so why would you need 2 backups?

Mountainlad

deisedude wrote: »

Agree exactly about the keepers. How many years was Clinton playing? Don't think he ever missed a championship game, so why would you need 2 backups?

2006-2011

lovelypoint

Mountainlad wrote: »

People are ridiculously quick to question Keepers, it's an incredibly tough position to play when you see first hand how hard the ball travels and how small the ball is.

In fairness, I think there are two sides to that coin, with the common wisdom being that forwards should bury any one on one with the keeper, aside from very tight angles. I would disagree with that as the best keepers, (Cusack/ Cummins/ et al), all pull off spectacular saves on occasion, which for me rubbishes the whole 'keeper had no chance for any of them' line that is trotted out a lot.

Definitely not an easy gig being an intercounty goalkeeper, but perhaps after the calamitous period of the early 2000's, we are perhaps maybe a little too fond of the pair of safe hands, and not asking for a few top drawer saves too from our keepers..

Mountainlad

lovelypoint wrote: »

In fairness, I think there are two sides to that coin, with the common wisdom being that forwards should bury any one on one with the keeper, aside from very tight angles. I would disagree with that as the best keepers, (Cusack/ Cummins/ et al), all pull off spectacular saves on occasion, which for me rubbishes the whole 'keeper had no chance for any of them' line that is trotted out a lot.

Definitely not an easy gig being an intercounty goalkeeper, but perhaps after the calamitous period of the early 2000's, we are perhaps maybe a little too fond of the pair of safe hands, and not asking for a few top drawer saves too from our keepers..

Yeah but how often do you need to pull off/can you pull off top drawer saves in a match? But that in comparison with the amount of times high balls drop in on the square.

Say Power pulled off a few top class saves, 4 in three matches, but also conceded a stupid goal by dropping the ball into the net in each of those three games, do you think people would still keep saying a safe pair of hands isn't that important?

drumhills

The Senior hurlers have a goal keeping coach i.e Pat Moore

lovelypoint

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah but how often do you need to pull off/can you pull off top drawer saves in a match? But that in comparison with the amount of times high balls drop in on the square.

Say Power pulled off a few top class saves, 4 in three matches, but also conceded a stupid goal by dropping the ball into the net in each of those three games, do you think people would still keep saying a safe pair of hands isn't that important?

In fairness, I'm not saying Power did not/ does not have some weak elements to his game, elements I would be hopeful a good manager and coach could weed out of a top notch keepers game.

As regards safe hands, I believe we need both in a keeper, a safe pair of hands and a good shot-stopper. All of the top sides have a good keeper who can pull off top-drawer saves as well as being solid, and we should aim for the same.

The blue blaa

I'v been told Power was outfield marking another goalkeeper John Coady (DLS) and Nicky Cashin got onto him an told him to put in an effort, Adrian told him to put him on the goal where he belongs an he'l make an effort and he walked off the field then. And rightly so were a joke this season. The backroom team simply are not up to it,take Pat Flanagan out of the equation an who have we exactly?? Pat Moore Goalkeeping coach i heard it all now.
I think some criticism of Iggy is bit harsh he's done nothing wrong,the management team are once again being shown up for what they are, in the space of 2 months we've had the Eoin Kelly drama,John Mullane drama,the 5 players not in league panel but still training away every week not getting any explanation as to why there not after making the panel and not receiving any gear that the other 30 got in front of them at training,the trip to Cork with no gameplan only to smack the ball as high as you can into the smallest full forward we have had in a long time plus it was under lights.The year dont look too good back the way were gone. Kilkenny will destroy us the weekend,13 yoyo's to watch a drubbin i'm in 2 minds whether it's worth going up to Walsh Park sunday..

p.s- Mullane is still training away but he's not fully back until the 26th where he will then be available for selection we'l see him in last 2 games against dublin an galway i think. We might even see him on goal yet:rolleyes:

glick6

There were 4 keepers on the training panel by the way, John Coady in there too. This wasn't the first time that two of the keepers were asked to play outfield during a training match and more often than not Adrian was in the goal, not out the field. I never played in goal myself but is it really the worst thing in the world to ask someone to occasionally play an outfield part? Maybe he was looking for some reason to pull himself if he does have emigration on his mind. I don't think it's a case of bad man management. I think Ryan and the selectors reward those who put in the effort, show heart and determination and a bit of steel. I think they are trying to get more of that mentality into this squad and it would go against everything they've laid down so far if they pander to someone who has a sense of entitlement.

In any case the big winner out of this is SOK, he's gone from three to two and will more than likely get a chance now in league at some stage. I'd like to see him do well, I do think he's a more complete goalkeeper than Iggy and has the potential to do well at this level.

deisebhoy17

Just came back to me that I i saw a glimpse of power on the bench during the Cork Waterford match and remember thinking jeez he cuts a forlorn looking figure

writing was probably on the wall

Mountainlad

glick6 wrote: »

There were 4 keepers on the training panel by the way, John Coady in there too. This wasn't the first time that two of the keepers were asked to play outfield during a training match and more often than not Adrian was in the goal, not out the field. I never played in goal myself but is it really the worst thing in the world to ask someone to occasionally play an outfield part? Maybe he was looking for some reason to pull himself if he does have emigration on his mind. I don't think it's a case of bad man management. I think Ryan and the selectors reward those who put in the effort, show heart and determination and a bit of steel. I think they are trying to get more of that mentality into this squad and it would go against everything they've laid down so far if they pander to someone who has a sense of entitlement.

In any case the big winner out of this is SOK, he's gone from three to two and will more than likely get a chance now in league at some stage. I'd like to see him do well, I do think he's a more complete goalkeeper than Iggy and has the potential to do well at this level.

Furthermore, I don't think it's the end of the world that one keeper has walked off the panel. Bit of hypocrasy from some of the boys saying they were delighted we'd three good goalkeepers vying for he number one spot and then act as if we've written off the season because one decides to walk off the panel, some faith they have in O'Regan and O'Keeffe anyway. Remember, Power didn't play at all last year either so we haven't lost anything from last year's team. Maybe he is the best keeper in Waterford but I believe there is an element of doubt over that.

I for one am more concerned about us improving outfield and ensuring that the Keeper isn't called upon too often, that is the most important thing. The Kelly situation is being used as a slight against the management and I can't see why. In terms of PR the Mullane incident was handled a little badly, but there's no issue there.

As regards extra players that don't have gear, I believe the county boards puit restrictions in place in terms of the official panel that could get gear due to our precarious financial position. Is it bad that more players are getting an opportunity to train with the team? Not in my opinion.

Look there are some aspects of the management that I'm not happy with like the gameplan and that more players didn't get a chance in the Waterford Crystal, but people are making way too much out of some things than they should. Really don't like the negativity going around. Whatever hang ups you may or may not have about the management, the team at the very least deserves a chance and saying 'ah dunno will I spend €13 to watch that shower' doesn't help anybody in anyway.

The blue blaa

Mountainlad wrote: »

Furthermore, I don't think it's the end of the world that one keeper has walked off the panel. Bit of hypocrasy from some of the boys saying they were delighted we'd three good goalkeepers vying for he number one spot and then act as if we've written off the season because one decides to walk off the panel, some faith they have in O'Regan and O'Keeffe anyway. Remember, Power didn't play at all last year either so we haven't lost anything from last year's team. Maybe he is the best keeper in Waterford but I believe there is an element of doubt over that.

I for one am more concerned about us improving outfield and ensuring that the Keeper isn't called upon too often, that is the most important thing. The Kelly situation is being used as a slight against the management and I can't see why. In terms of PR the Mullane incident was handled a little badly, but there's no issue there.

As regards extra players that don't have gear, I believe the county boards puit restrictions in place in terms of the official panel that could get gear due to our precarious financial position. Is it bad that more players are getting an opportunity to train with the team? Not in my opinion.

Look there are some aspects of the management that I'm not happy with like the gameplan and that more players didn't get a chance in the Waterford Crystal, but people are making way too much out of some things than they should. Really don't like the negativity going around. Whatever hang ups you may or may not have about the management, the team at the very least deserves a chance and saying 'ah dunno will I spend €13 to watch that shower' doesn't help anybody in anyway.

jesus Mountainlad think ya read bit too much into what i'm saying. I will be in walsh park sunday for definite wouldnt miss it for the world. I was bein sarcastic about the 13 yoyo's simply a rant my friend. I for one hope we turn things around fast but i dont think we will.. I really hope i'm wrong i'm not knockin my county i'm just in doubt

Giveitfong

Glick 6 says:
I think Ryan and the selectors reward those who put in the effort, show heart and determination and a bit of steel.

If that's the case, then why didn't he give the O'Gorman brothers a decent chance - you won't find any better to put in the effort, show heart and determination and - above all - a bit of steel.

Steel is one thing you will find nowhere in Iggy O'Regan's body. He will neither take punishment nor give it. He hit a ball out over the sideline against Cork rather than take on the incoming forwards. A few years ago he lost Mount Sion a Munster club title by turning back into his own goal and then getting blocked down rather than taking the ball out of the goal area and taking whatever hits were necessary. He made no attempt to save any of Cork's goals last week. For two of them he should at least have made the forward pay for his efforts.

You cannot take any manager seriously who would have Eoin McGrath anywhere near an intercounty team, and then stands and watches as the outfield players rain high balls down on top of him. The presence of O'Regan and McGrath on the team suggests to me that it is one of Ryan's mentors who is calling the shots and that his first priority is not what is best for Waterford.

Brad1234

I'd have to agree with Giveitfong having played infront of iggy he doesnt inspire a whole lot of confidence to be honest.. Not much of a talker and once it goes in behind 1 on 1 i wouldnt hold out much confidence that he would save it.

He is good to pick someone out but takes some awful chances and he doesnt puck it long if it needs be.. For me O Keeffe is the best we have to offer long term and he is a pretty cool individual from all the games ive seen of him..

I heard from a member of the squad the set up is a joke.. The game plan is pretty much go out and give it a lash boys and see how we go.. spray enough ball around.. I was at the cork game and it was a joke.. they had no idea as players out on the pitch as to what they were doing.. players with no composure, win it and hit it as long as you can with a toothless full line..

i believe the players see through him and certainly arent playing for him.. O Neill was the only kid that did and its probably due to the fact he was making his league debut and as any new kid would be bursting at the seems to play for waterford..

Moran, brick, the last day threw it in 10 mins into second half and maybe if the latter grew a pair and stop coming out with these soundbites for Wlr we'd be in a better place.

Brother Philip is meant to be running the show training wise.. Had him as a coach the guy treats you like your five years old and his drills are ones i did with Joey carton/peter power 20 years ago...

Im all for cutting costs but when you cut it at the top then you asking for trouble. This guy wouldnt be good enough to train at top club side no mind a top intercounty team.. You can point to DLS but once Ballygunner give them a hiding in the league stages i believe his input was minimal..

This power issue although isn't the end of the world is another poor noise to be coming from the camp and it should have been him and Soky fighting it out.. Calling in Iggy and Coady (he certainly aint up to it) was a waste of resources and now iggy is in goal which says it all.. Bro Philip Mount sion upbringing seems to have a good influence along with the goalkeeping coach who also has a fond love for a certain City team

Mountainlad

Brad1234 wrote: »

I'd have to agree with Giveitfong having played infront of iggy he doesnt inspire a whole lot of confidence to be honest.. Not much of a talker and once it goes in behind 1 on 1 i wouldnt hold out much confidence that he would save it.

He is good to pick someone out but takes some awful chances and he doesnt puck it long if it needs be.. For me O Keeffe is the best we have to offer long term and he is a pretty cool individual from all the games ive seen of him..

I heard from a member of the squad the set up is a joke.. The game plan is pretty much go out and give it a lash boys and see how we go.. spray enough ball around.. I was at the cork game and it was a joke.. they had no idea as players out on the pitch as to what they were doing.. players with no composure, win it and hit it as long as you can with a toothless full line..

i believe the players see through him and certainly arent playing for him.. O Neill was the only kid that did and its probably due to the fact he was making his league debut and as any new kid would be bursting at the seems to play for waterford..

Moran, brick, the last day threw it in 10 mins into second half and maybe if the latter grew a pair and stop coming out with these soundbites for Wlr we'd be in a better place.

Brother Philip is meant to be running the show training wise.. Had him as a coach the guy treats you like your five years old and his drills are ones i did with Joey carton/peter power 20 years ago...

Im all for cutting costs but when you cut it at the top then you asking for trouble. This guy wouldnt be good enough to train at top club side no mind a top intercounty team.. You can point to DLS but once Ballygunner give them a hiding in the league stages i believe his input was minimal..

This power issue although isn't the end of the world is another poor noise to be coming from the camp and it should have been him and Soky fighting it out.. Calling in Iggy and Coady (he certainly aint up to it) was a waste of resources and now iggy is in goal which says it all.. Bro Philip Mount sion upbringing seems to have a good influence along with the goalkeeping coach who also has a fond love for a certain City team

Who is the goalkeeping coach?

If it is Pat Moore, is he not from Abbeyside?

You wouldn't know what to believe on these sites.

There is a favouritism to Mount Sion to be seen there though, I'd agree with that. I'm not suprised anything said about the setup at the moment is negative. I heard Br. Ryan was a good trainer and that the players like him, but I've never seen any of their training sessions first hand so I can't from my own opinion on it.

zooropa2012

Just heard the Deise boys could be missing Noel Connors for 2 - 3 months, due to a bulging disc in his lumbar region, He is having physiotherapy at the moment but the worst case scenario is an operation to heal the injury, he will we sorely missed for the campaign if so....

Mountainlad

zooropa2012 wrote: »

Just heard the Deise boys will be missing Noel Connors for 6 months, due to a bulging disc in his lumbar region, He will need physiotherapy or worst case scenario operation to heal the injury, he will we sorely missed for the campaign....

I'm depressed...

drumhills

Mountainlad wrote: »

Who is the goalkeeping coach?

If it is Pat Moore, is he not from Abbeyside?

You wouldn't know what to believe on these sites.

There is a favouritism to Mount Sion to be seen there though, I'd agree with that. I'm not suprised anything said about the setup at the moment is negative. I heard Br. Ryan was a good trainer and that the players like him, but I've never seen any of their training sessions first hand so I can't from my own opinion on it.

It is Pat Moore from Abbeyside.

Cake Man

Mountainlad wrote: »

I'm depressed...

Just gets better and better, doesn't it? At least it gives someone else the chance to nail down the corner back spot (possibly Ringo or either of the Fives') but Connors would be an automatic selection if he was available.

Mountainlad

Cake Man wrote: »

Just gets better and better, doesn't it? At least it gives someone else the chance to nail down the corner back spot (possibly Ringo or either of the Fives') but Connors would be an automatic selection if he was available.

Think Ringo already had his nailed. We have very little cover for that area and Noelie is one of the best in the Country, would be a big blow to any team.

The blue blaa

Mountainlad wrote: »

Cake Man wrote: »

Just gets better and better, doesn't it? At least it gives someone else the chance to nail down the corner back spot (possibly Ringo or either of the Fives') but Connors would be an automatic selection if he was available.

Think Ringo already had his nailed. We have very little cover for that area and Noelie is one of the best in the Country, would be a big blow to any team.

Would Paidi Prendergast be an option for corner back

hurler on de ditch

The blue blaa wrote: »

Would Paidi Prendergast be an option for corner back

maybe paidi would, although the loss of conors is not to bad he has heaped an awful lot of pressure on our defence last couple of seasons with his silly almost reckless short game ,hand passing 5 yards for f%^&s sake