Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

robopaddy

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

RIP Tony Mansfield. A true servant to Waterford G.A.A over the years.

This only a couple weeks after John A Murphy. We have lost 2 great characters with an unbelievable wealth of knowledge in Waterford GAA. a huge void has been left.

RIP

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Second piece of business - complete disaster for the footballers in London. Can anyone shed any light on where they went wrong? They're definitely not out of the running - every team have lost twice except Limerick who have a 100% record and London who have lost three, but now they can't afford any more slip ups. A couple of years ago they blew promotion in London, and it was largely due to the professionalism around Kiely's management at the time - what happened this time.

look it in fairness you cant expect to keep shipping the beatings we have been getting at minor and u21 level over the last number of years and at the same time expect miracles at senior level. winning the first 2 games was brilliant but all it seemed to do was give people here false hope. The past 2 games have been a reality check and in truth a more realistic level of where were at. Yes we should be beating London but should we really be beating Tipp when you consider the underage success theyve had in comparision to ours?
Im not saying we dont have a chance of promotion and shouldnt be aiming for it, as in division 4 every team is capable of beating each other. But we need to be realistic when were beaten and stop trying to look for excuses and reasons and just accept where we are. The real issue lies with the development and promotion of the game at schools and underage level.

deisedude

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Anybody know if the Waterford V Kilkenny game is live on TG4 next week? I see it's down to be broadcast next Monday but wasnt sure if it's the live game at 2 or the deferred game at 4?

Deferred according to the Gaa website. Galway Tipp is the live game

cleaboy boy

Cheers Deisedude, that'll be a test of mettle for our younger players next week in Nowlan Park. Another step in the learning curve.

There's room for all sorts of permutations in the next 3 weeks, here's hoping we can get another win or two on board and qualify for the semi finals.

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

look it in fairness you cant expect to keep shipping the beatings we have been getting at minor and u21 level over the last number of years and at the same time expect miracles at senior level. winning the first 2 games was brilliant but all it seemed to do was give people here false hope. The past 2 games have been a reality check and in truth a more realistic level of where were at. Yes we should be beating London but should we really be beating Tipp when you consider the underage success theyve had in comparision to ours?
Im not saying we dont have a chance of promotion and shouldnt be aiming for it, as in division 4 every team is capable of beating each other. But we need to be realistic when were beaten and stop trying to look for excuses and reasons and just accept where we are. The real issue lies with the development and promotion of the game at schools and underage level.

Any lads aged 25-29 grew up on teams which would have been beating every other county except Cork and Kerry. Guys 29+ may have won a Munster U21.

We've been able to add the odd player every year after that, but it won't be another couple of years until the lack of underage success will start to make a more serious impact.

With current squad, you'd expect to beat London. Leitrim have lost 99 club players, 14 of whom were intercounty players to emigration. That's our competition at the moment.

Crusty Blaa

Apparently some of the U21 footballers only found out they were on the starting 15 to play Tipp on Wednesday through Facebook. Absolute shambles and we wonder why our footballers are losing to London.

hardybuck

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

Apparently some of the U21 footballers only found out they were on the starting 15 to play Tipp on Wednesday through Facebook. Absolute shambles and we wonder why our footballers are losing to London.

Are the local media picking up on this at all? It's an absolute outrage that this is happening, 10 years after winning a Munster title at this level. Can you imagine if this happened with hurling!?

Black Suir

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

Apparently some of the U21 footballers only found out they were on the starting 15 to play Tipp on Wednesday through Facebook. Absolute shambles and we wonder why our footballers are losing to London.

If this is true, its shocking. Is there a link to such info available or it it someone saying something and others then adding their bit to it.

Crusty Blaa

Black Suir wrote: »

If this is true, its shocking. Is there a link to such info available or it it someone saying something and others then adding their bit to it.

I heard it from one of the panellists fathers so there must be some form of truth in it. I wouldn't like to give names on here as it wouldn't be fair on him.

As you said if it is true, it's a disgrace. Given the fact that someone above mentioned a few pages back that they aren't even training and availability was only being asked recently, it wouldn't be at all surprising. The whole setup seems to be a farce.

Hopefully someone like Dermot Keyes has got some more confirmed info on the whole thing and writes about it in the Munster this week.

Mountainlad

The worst thing about it all is that they actually have quite a good team out for the u21s but will in all likelihood get a big beating, through no real fault of their own.

1. Sean Barron Ardmore
2. Lorcán Ó Corraoin An Rinn
3. Darren Foley Clashmore/Kinsalebeg
4. Conor Sheridan Dungarvan
5. Ross Dunford Ballinacourty
6. Ronan Sheehan Ballinacourty
7. David Hallahan Kilmacthomas
8. Kevin Phelan Ballinameela
9. Ray Ó Ceallaigh An Rinn
10. Gavin Nugent Rathgormack
11. Donie Breathnach An Rinn
12. Kevin Sheehan Sliabh gCua
13. Michael Kiely Sliabh gCua
14. Paul Whyte Kilrossanty
15. Shane Ryan Nire

I'm sure some of these are in college with or know some of the Tipp lads. If they do get beaten well then the abuse they'll get afterwards would be sure to discourage them from playing for Waterford again. The problem is that we do have good footballers but they're given no incentive to play, and while I can't speak for the current management team (seem to be doing a reasonable job I would have thought, think Carew is a man with decent expertise) over the last number of years it's almost as if anyone who wanted to represent Waterford at Senior level has been punished with conditions that are probably only really comparable with the teams in the lower echelons of the Inter-County Hurling. Important to acknowledge that this did improve a bit under John Owens, maybe partially to do with the sponorship deal with 3. I would say though that the lads didn't do themselves any favours by losing to London last weekend, even if they are a greatly improved side.


It's really a shame, but a sign that the board are cutting whatever they can get away with to save costs, and there's no doubt they'll get away it because once the immediate farce blows over we'll all be talking about the hurling again.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

The worst thing about it all is that they actually have quite a good team out for the u21s but will in all likelihood get a big beating, through no real fault of their own.

1. Sean Barron Ardmore
2. Lorcán Ó Corraoin An Rinn
3. Darren Foley Clashmore/Kinsalebeg
4. Conor Sheridan Dungarvan
5. Ross Dunford Ballinacourty
6. Ronan Sheehan Ballinacourty
7. David Hallahan Kilmacthomas
8. Kevin Phelan Ballinameela
9. Ray Ó Ceallaigh An Rinn
10. Gavin Nugent Rathgormack
11. Donie Breathnach An Rinn
12. Kevin Sheehan Sliabh gCua
13. Michael Kiely Sliabh gCua
14. Paul Whyte Kilrossanty
15. Shane Ryan Nire

I'm sure some of these are in college with or know some of the Tipp lads. If they do get beaten well then the abuse they'll get afterwards would be sure to discourage them from playing for Waterford again. The problem is that we do have good footballers but they're given no incentive to play, and while I can't speak for the current management team (seem to be doing a reasonable job I would have thought, think Carew is a man with decent expertise) over the last number of years it's almost as if anyone who wanted to represent Waterford at Senior level has been punished with conditions that are probably only really comparable with the teams in the lower echelons of the Inter-County Hurling. Important to acknowledge that this did improve a bit under John Owens, maybe partially to do with the sponorship deal with 3. I would say though that the lads didn't do themselves any favours by losing to London last weekend, even if they are a greatly improved side.


It's really a shame, but a sign that the board are cutting whatever they can get away with to save costs, and there's no doubt they'll get away it because once the immediate farce blows over we'll all be talking about the hurling again.

is that the actual team?

surprise surprise no one from any city club, Gaultier or Tramore (a so-called football town). As usual its up to the smaller rural clubs to put in the hard graft to keep the football flame burning in the county.

Deise Doodler

robopaddy wrote: »

is that the actual team?

surprise surprise no one from any city club, Gaultier or Tramore (a so-called football town). As usual its up to the smaller rural clubs to put in the hard graft to keep the football flame burning in the county.

perhaps the truth is that the majority of people in the county just prefer hurling both to support and play, which they are entitled to do, because a minority have an intrest in the game and wish to keep the flame burning (as they are entiled to do) should not mean that everyone else has to bend to their will, i

Straight Talker

Going from the reaction on the PROC Rebel GAA and on here it seems both sets of fans are reasonably happy with the result.Going in at half time 10 points to 2 down and considering the weather it would have been easy for our fellas to say to hell with this let's get the bus back home!Instead they knuckled down and put themselves into a position where they were winning the game with minutes to go.Credit to Waterford for making a draw of it in the end.From our perspective im happy enough with the start of the league and im hopeful that we can have a good crack at winning a munster title.Anyone who thinks Waterford are an easy proposition can think again.They are very strong from positions from 1-9 and they have a fair few promising forwards as well.It's look like there is life after John Mullane after all!

jive

robopaddy wrote: »

is that the actual team?

surprise surprise no one from any city club, Gaultier or Tramore (a so-called football town). As usual its up to the smaller rural clubs to put in the hard graft to keep the football flame burning in the county.

Tramore were playing on Sunday as were John Mitchel's, Rathgormack and Kilmacthomas and I believe trials were held later that day .... could have something to do with it. Also it looks like 13/15 are from the west (I stand to be corrected on that). It's clearly an issue with how the whole process is carried out and not the fault of any of the clubs; the fact that they won't even have trained prior to the Munster championship is testament to this. When you look at last year's result (WATERFORD 1-4 V 4-26 KERRY) is it any wonder that people would be reluctant to play with such poor preparation again?

Edit: Just looking at the odds on Paddy Power - Tipp are 1/50 for the win, says it all really.

seananigans

Straight Talker wrote: »

Going from the reaction on the PROC Rebel GAA and on here it seems both sets of fans are reasonably happy with the result.Going in at half time 10 points to 2 down and considering the weather it would have been easy for our fellas to say to hell with this let's get the bus back home!Instead they knuckled down and put themselves into a position where they were winning the game with minutes to go.Credit to Waterford for making a draw of it in the end.From our perspective im happy enough with the start of the league and im hopeful that we can have a good crack at winning a munster title.Anyone who thinks Waterford are an easy proposition can think again.They are very strong from positions from 1-9 and they have a fair few promising forwards as well.It's look like there is life after John Mullane after all!

While I have great time for Muller, I can't help but feel theres a whole new lease of life in the forwards,maybe it's the fact that the no.13 is no longer a foregone conclusion,and I have to saw prender is best i ever seen him.

While the last 5 years were amazing ,I like the fact that there is a changing lineup and real competition,not to mention the use of highball has improved 10fold

Mountainlad

seananigans wrote: »

While I have great time for Muller, I can't help but feel theres a whole new lease of life in the forwards,maybe it's the fact that the no.13 is no longer a foregone conclusion,and I have to saw prender is best i ever seen him.

While the last 5 years were amazing ,I like the fact that there is a changing lineup and real competition,not to mention the use of highball has improved 10fold

The ball into the forwards was always the main issue we had under Davy. We can say what we like about the forwards, but they have to be given the chance to contest it at least. Seems to be imrpoving now though as there's smarter use of possession, and even the inter play in the forwards is really good. Up against the two best defences in the next two games, it will be interesting to see how much change we get out of them.

tramoreabu

jive wrote: »

Tramore were playing on Sunday as were John Mitchel's, Rathgormack and Kilmacthomas and I believe trials were held later that day .... could have something to do with it. Also it looks like 13/15 are from the west (I stand to be corrected on that). It's clearly an issue with how the whole process is carried out and not the fault of any of the clubs; the fact that they won't even have trained prior to the Munster championship is testament to this. When you look at last year's result (WATERFORD 1-4 V 4-26 KERRY) is it any wonder that people would be reluctant to play with such poor preparation again?

Edit: Just looking at the odds on Paddy Power - Tipp are 1/50 for the win, says it all really.

There were no players from the east even contacted for the trial, only those eastern that were already on the senior panel. Even players who played last year were not asked to the trial. Eamon Cahill of Rathgormack who is a fantastic goalkeeper was not asked even though he is a senior goalkeeper and also apart of the Rathgormack u21 team that will contest this years county final. Very political.

Mountainlad

tramoreabu wrote: »

There were no players from the east even contacted for the trial, only those eastern that were already on the senior panel. Even players who played last year were not asked to the trial. Eamon Cahill of Rathgormack who is a fantastic goalkeeper was not asked even though he is a senior goalkeeper and also apart of the Rathgormack u21 team that will contest this years county final. Very political.

Sounds pretty awful because those Rathgormack lads would be good. Didn't realize there was anything like that considering Gavin Nugent is on it. Bad form, I wonder could they have done any worse than this if they actually made a plan on how to organize this team as badly as they possibly could!

seananigans

Mountainlad wrote: »

The ball into the forwards was always the main issue we had under Davy. We can say what we like about the forwards, but they have to be given the chance to contest it at least. Seems to be imrpoving now though as there's smarter use of possession, and even the inter play in the forwards is really good. Up against the two best defences in the next two games, it will be interesting to see how much change we get out of them.

I had great time for Davy, but i also had probnlems with him,I found him passionate and driven,but limited

I also felt he was too slow to change, he would come up with a game plan,fair enough if we needed an edge,but if it didnt work, he would stick wit it for a lot loner than he should,no plan b, whether he was sussed or not,he ploughed on.

the other thing was he never made sube until they were too late, he seemed to have more respect for the ego of his plan than the match day conditions .

tramoreabu

Mountainlad wrote: »

Sounds pretty awful because those Rathgormack lads would be good. Didn't realize there was anything like that considering Gavin Nugent is on it. Bad form, I wonder could they have done any worse than this if they actually made a plan on how to organize this team as badly as they possibly could!

Yes they beat my own in the eastern final just last week. We were a bit unlucky to be fair and had we not had injuries we would have been closer. But that's not to take away from them that they have some very good players capable of playing at u21 county level, as do Tramore. Both clubs have represented the county well at underage over the past few years and the fact that they weren't even acknowledged this year was a disgrace.

hardybuck

What did people think of Fraher Field on Sunday? One poster here has started a thread about it he is so enraged by the venue. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056900592

A lot of people here are fond of claiming it to be our best venue, but with nothing but grass banks on three sides of the field it's a very poor option if there is any rain. Seemingly standing in the aisles was an issue on Sunday.

I also read Jimmy Barry Murphy's comments that he thought the pitch was unplayable, Michael Ryan mentioned standing water in places.

If this happened in Walsh Park we'd have lads saying a match should never be played there again, it's an aul bog with terrible access etc..

Whatever about the pitch, this posters comments about stewarding should be taken quite seriously by the County Board.

robopaddy

seananigans wrote: »

While I have great time for Muller, I can't help but feel theres a whole new lease of life in the forwards,maybe it's the fact that the no.13 is no longer a foregone conclusion,and I have to saw prender is best i ever seen him.

While the last 5 years were amazing ,I like the fact that there is a changing lineup and real competition,not to mention the use of highball has improved 10fold

Id agree. In a way I think its a bit of blessing in disguise that Mullane has moved on. Now the younger lads simply have to step up to the plate and in fairness youd have to say that they have done that so far. It was way too easy to sit back and wait around for mullane to do all the work and last year I think there was a bit of an attitude that 'mullane will be back later in the league anyway'. Also I think kelly moving on has helped matters. I dont want to be too unfair on him as he gave some unbelievable performances for us down through the years but the last couple years he was just a negative distraction knocking around the place who was just being accommodated based on past reputation. I know weve won nothing yet but the early signs are promising and its all about building for the future and to do that you need to rid any of the old baggage. Thats what JBM has been trying to do in Cork too.

As for Davy well Im glad hes Clare's problem now and not ours. Dont think hes a a very good coach he did ok with us for a few years with an aging team and in fairness kept us competitive during a period of transition. But I dont think hes the right man to have when there are a lot of young players coming through who need proper coaching and guidance.

Crusty Blaa

hardybuck wrote: »

What did people think of Fraher Field on Sunday? One poster here has started a thread about it he is so enraged by the venue. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056900592

A lot of people here are fond of claiming it to be our best venue, but with nothing but grass banks on three sides of the field it's a very poor option if there is any rain. Seemingly standing in the aisles was an issue on Sunday.

I also read Jimmy Barry Murphy's comments that he thought the pitch was unplayable, Michael Ryan mentioned standing water in places.

If this happened in Walsh Park we'd have lads saying a match should never be played there again, it's an aul bog with terrible access etc..

Whatever about the pitch, this posters comments about stewarding should be taken quite seriously by the County Board.

Shur look, both Fraher and Welsh Park should have been sold years ago and a proper stadium should have been built when it could have been. They are both a disgrace and the worst in the country for playing surface, facilities, access etc.. Even fecking Leitrim have 10 times the facilities in Carrick on Shannon and they can barely field a football team. Wasn't there proposals rejected by the County Board for a pitch and stadium in Butlerstown or was it the now Carraiganore venue? Unfortunately Waterfords County Board are stuck in the 50's.

hardybuck

tramoreabu wrote: »

Yes they beat my own in the eastern final just last week. We were a bit unlucky to be fair and had we not had injuries we would have been closer. But that's not to take away from them that they have some very good players capable of playing at u21 county level, as do Tramore. Both clubs have represented the county well at underage over the past few years and the fact that they weren't even acknowledged this year was a disgrace.

This is really poor. Football in the East, particularly at underage, can be very good. It's bad for all concerned that there isn't more representation from the area.

There seems to be an extremely ignorant attitude that there is no interest in the game down there and no players as a result. The reality is that quite often there are a lot of talented kids who become frustrated with the structures around them and feck off to play other sports.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

What did people think of Fraher Field on Sunday? One poster here has started a thread about it he is so enraged by the venue. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056900592

A lot of people here are fond of claiming it to be our best venue, but with nothing but grass banks on three sides of the field it's a very poor option if there is any rain. Seemingly standing in the aisles was an issue on Sunday.

I also read Jimmy Barry Murphy's comments that he thought the pitch was unplayable, Michael Ryan mentioned standing water in places.

If this happened in Walsh Park we'd have lads saying a match should never be played there again, it's an aul bog with terrible access etc..

Whatever about the pitch, this posters comments about stewarding should be taken quite seriously by the County Board.

The issue seems to be more to do with stewarding. Walsh Park's stand is a little bigger but I reckon you'd have had the same problem there because youd have had the same stewards. Nobody wanted to be out in the wind and the rain and nobody wanted to be stuck in the corner.

How can you blame the stadium for the weather conditions? There was pools of water in the dugout, hardly affected the game?

The surface kicks the s**t out of Walsh Park's, there really is no disputing that. If the match was on in Walsh Park, it would have been lifeguards they'd have needed, not stewards because everyone would have been drowning.

The facilities are pretty much one in the same, neither are great. But the pitches aren't comparable.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

This is really poor. Football in the East, particularly at underage, can be very good. It's bad for all concerned that there isn't more representation from the area.

There seems to be an extremely ignorant attitude that there is no interest in the game down there and no players as a result. The reality is that quite often there are a lot of talented kids who become frustrated with the structures around them and feck off to play other sports.

It's pretty bad alright. In fairness, it does seem that this is the worst run team that we've put out. Shame for all the lads involved.

Dunno who the responsibility lies with, probably the County Board who presumably told the management there'd be no funds made available for training.

cleaboy boy

Was present at the match as well on Sunday and would agree with most of the comments, it was a disgrace that people were left watch the match on the steps while blocking other supporters views. The stewards that were present wouldnt organise a few sociables in a brewery.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

The issue seems to be more to do with stewarding. Walsh Park's stand is a little bigger but I reckon you'd have had the same problem there because youd have had the same stewards. Nobody wanted to be out in the wind and the rain and nobody wanted to be stuck in the corner.

How can you blame the stadium for the weather conditions? There was pools of water in the dugout, hardly affected the game?

The surface kicks the s**t out of Walsh Park's, there really is no disputing that. If the match was on in Walsh Park, it would have been lifeguards they'd have needed, not stewards because everyone would have been drowning.

The facilities are pretty much one in the same, neither are great. But the pitches aren't comparable.

• This pitch was subject to a large investment to ensure it had excellent drainage. If it is being described by Cork players as the worst they've ever played on, perhaps it's not as good as people make out.
• Walsh Park stand is a good bit bigger, everyone who was standing on the steps would have been seated quite easily
• The grass banks on three sides are not options for supporters. Walsh Pk's 'terrace' isn't brilliant, but it does at least have metal posts to lean on.
• Stewarding is clearly a big issue and needs to be addressed

All of the above are factors which are controllable, and our county board should address.

Given that all the other messing that's going on, I think we can all agree that nothing will be done to improve things.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

• This pitch was subject to a large investment to ensure it had excellent drainage. If it is being described by Cork players as the worst they've ever played on, perhaps it's not as good as people make out.
• Walsh Park stand is a good bit bigger, everyone who was standing on the steps would have been seated quite easily
• The grass banks on three sides are not options for supporters. Walsh Pk's 'terrace' isn't brilliant, but it does at least have metal posts to lean on.
• Stewarding is clearly a big issue and needs to be addressed

All of the above are factors which are controllable, and our county board should address.

Given that all the other messing that's going on, I think we can all agree that nothing will be done to improve things.

The last issue is the key one, and it would have been the same in Walsh Park. I don't think it was an issue with the size of the stand just people trying to get away with standing in the aisles if they could.

There's no allowances for the conditions there though to be fair, they're saying that probably with respect to how bad a day it was. Sure the rest of the country was hardly in pristine condition on Sunday.

It's still a much better pitch, investment or no. I mean that's a petty enough argument like, because I could make the argument that the County board invested in those rails where they chose not to in Fraher Field!

For the amount of games Fraher Field holds in a year it's pretty incredible, but the stadium itself is poor for an Inter-County stadium.

And I agree, the County Board probably won't be proactive but I'd say it will be a while again before they have to face a situation like that.

alllcounty

The steward's on duty at the game were at fault. Nobody should have being allowed to stand between the rows of seats as it is clearly a health and safety violation. The attitude of the stewards was appalling, to tell patrons that have paid to come through the gates to '**** off' or 'you know what i would like to do with you' is disgusting behaviour.

Our own county secretary holds up games to remove excess panel members and people from the sidelines to the stands before senior club games begin which is fair. But what happened in Fraher field on sunday is a disgrace and tarnishes the reputation of the county outside the county. It goes against the policy of removing excess people from the sideline when you have a situation of excess people standing on the steps in the stand.

What should be done next is for our county board to apologise to the lad that travelled from cork who was abused by officials on duty that day and for all stewards to be brought in and instructed their behaviour is not acceptable and in future to do their job if they are in a similar situation again.