Fraher Field - Disgrace

Helpneeded86 · 11-03-2013 9:05pm #1

I was at the National hurling league game in Dungarvan yesterday. I arrived fairly early and got a seat. It was a bad day and as it got closer to throw in the steps in between seats started filling up. Basically anyone with a seat now could not see the game. There was a few exceptional cases aswell near me (Grandfather and child, 2 special needs individuals) along with several older and younger individuals.

There was no steward on our section and i went to the nearest one who said "what do you want me to do about it". He said talk to him and pointed to a person in a orange jacket. I said to that individual you cant have people standing on the steps no one can see and its a H&S issue. He nicely told me to "Fcuk off".

I returned to my seat again and as more people got frustrated I went again this time to the front gate. I was then put in contact with the event co-ordinator who had a chat with me and took my name, address and number. I asked him what he was going to do?

"What can I do the weather went against us"

"We were left down by stewards"

"I cant go up and tell them move theyl F and blind us out of it"

"Here you take the jacket and get them to move"

At this point I went back and my GF was confronting an individual who was directly in her way he told her to "fcuk off back to your seat little girl"

I then had a small shape up with him but im not exactly one for violence. I then eventually got in contact with a Gardai who seemed interested but couldnt really interfere as its not his job as such.

At the start of the second half I spotted the safety officer and took up my issues with him. He denied it was his job even tho he wore a vest with safety officer. I decided to stand in front of the Vip section ( possibly the selectors seats im not 100% sure). I made the point that if i can be moved from there why cant someone move the others. All he done was walk away and I just moved as I didnt want to act the clown altogether as the lads were apologetic.

My final straw was to confront the front gate and ask for my money back. I was told by the man on the front gate to fcuk off or.. and I said or what he replied " I know what id like to do to you".

Ive calmed a bit since yesterday but im pretty tempted to contact HSA and Munster council. Anyone think I should just leave it go? I have pictures and so on....

blackbelt · 11-03-2013 9:15pm

Post your pics.We can't have this happening at GAA grounds.Proper stewarding and H&S is a minimum requirement for GAA fans to watch and enjoy the game safely.

Helpneeded86 · 11-03-2013 9:21pm

blackbelt wrote: »

Post your pics.We can't have this happening at GAA grounds.Proper stewarding and H&S is a minimum requirement for GAA fans to watch and enjoy the game safely.

Il get the pictures up in the next hour they wont be the clearest but at least they are something.

68Murph68 · 11-03-2013 9:23pm

Definitely get in touch with the authorities.

The behaviour of the individuals in question was completely unacceptable.

You will be doing everyone who ever goes to any match in the land a favour.

Kerrydude1981 · 11-03-2013 9:51pm

Contact your county board as well,cant treat paying punters like that.

That kind of a carry on wouldn't be long putting you off going to matches

Helpneeded86 · 11-03-2013 10:05pm

This is the view from my seat. The girl you can see is where the walkway is.

Steps on the entry/exit point.

More steps been blocked.

This is a picture of the most obnoxious steward although in fairness he did not use any profanities on me. Ive broken the link as I just realised I cant really be posting pictures of him.

Helpneeded86 · 11-03-2013 10:10pm

People sitting all the way up the steps on a walkway.

Mountainlad · 11-03-2013 10:38pm

Have to say I've never experienced anything like that there before, but didn't travel to the match yesterday, pictures are pretty shocking. Shouldn't be let happen, probably something the stewards don't have to deal with very often on account of that felt they could get away with not dealing with.

Definitely have sympathy, because I'd be fierce frustrated if that happened to me. Who provides the stewards for the league, is it the County Board?

I'd definitely contact your club, the County Board (assuming it's the Cork County Board) and then the Waterford County Board if all else fails. Don't think the Munster Council would want to get involved.

Ando's Saggy Bottom · 11-03-2013 10:50pm

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Contact your county board as well,cant treat paying punters like that.

That kind of a carry on wouldn't be long putting you off going to matches

You'll be waiting a long time for the Wateford county board to give a satisfactory response tbh. Clowns one and all! The U-21 footballers aren't even meeting up to train before championship matches FFS.

68Murph68 · 11-03-2013 11:34pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

I'd definitely contact your club, the County Board (assuming it's the Cork County Board) and then the Waterford County Board if all else fails. Don't think the Munster Council would want to get involved.

If it was Munster Championship the Munster Council would definitely be the people to talk to.

However as its a league game I think it might come under the auspices of Croke Park.

I'd be surprised if Croke Park don't have an interest given they cut Newbridge's capacity to 6000 over health&safety concerns.

I think maybe either Waterford County Council or the Dept of Environment would be interested on the health & safety grounds.

Mountainlad · 11-03-2013 11:38pm

68Murph68 wrote: »

If it was Munster Championship the Munster Council would definitely be the people to talk to.

However as its a league game I think it might come under the auspices of Croke Park.

I'd be surprised if Croke Park don't have an interest given they cut Newbridge's capacity to 6000 over health&safety concerns.

I think maybe either Waterford County Council or the Dept of Environment would be interested on the health & safety grounds.

Yeah well they might be alright, but I don't think it was a case of overcrowding as there was only 2,500 people there, it was just that nobody wanted to sit in the wet seats or below the covered part of the stand and at the same time weren't prepared to sit over in the corners because they wouldnt have the same view. It just looks like a case of stewards not being prepared to do their job.

blackbelt · 11-03-2013 11:42pm

Absolutely shocking. I think these images should be forwarded to the complaints department inCroke Park.Don't think your county board will do anything other than give you a token "we'll look into this" and then don't bother.There are too many old hags working in county boards who only want to turn up to work at 10am and go home at 4.30 without having to listen to complaints or lift a finger.

Kristopherus · 12-03-2013 12:06am

Afaik, its Croke Park that have responsibility for running the National Leagues. So the OP should forward his photos to them, together with a strong letter of complaint. I'm sorry I cannot find any official listed in the GAA website, but no harm would be done if he addressed his envelope to Padraic O Dubhaigh, Ard Stiurthoir, Pairc an Crochaigh, Bale Atha Cliath 3.

Hammer Archer · 12-03-2013 2:39am

That's pretty horrendous alright.
Can't understand the double standards the GAA seem to have with some stadiums. Pairc Tailteann's capacity was cut to just 10000 for a time a couple of years back because the grass banks behind the goals were deemed to be dangerous. These were (and still are) closed off to crowds during games. However, as far as I know, Fraher Field has grass banks on three sides of the pitch which are completely open to the public. And from looking online, the capacity of Fraher Field is 15000 (though I'm not sure how accurate that is).

Mountainlad · 12-03-2013 1:53pm

Hammer Archer wrote: »

That's pretty horrendous alright.
Can't understand the double standards the GAA seem to have with some stadiums. Pairc Tailteann's capacity was cut to just 10000 for a time a couple of years back because the grass banks behind the goals were deemed to be dangerous. These were (and still are) closed off to crowds during games. However, as far as I know, Fraher Field has grass banks on three sides of the pitch which are completely open to the public. And from looking online, the capacity of Fraher Field is 15000 (though I'm not sure how accurate that is).

Not very accurate, plus there was only 2500 at the ground on Sunday.

It is not so much an issue with the stadium itself, but rather with the stewards. I wasn't there admittedly, but I would guarantee the stand wasn't full.

Realt Dearg Sec · 12-03-2013 2:52pm

Get in touch with Croke Park, it's not a provincial council issue. The notion that it is just that "the weather went against us" is ridiculous. I've been in Nowlan Park when people who arrived late wanted to sit on steps near the middle of the stand and they are shunted along in short order, and rightly so. It would be extremely dangerous in an emergency. Quite clearly the stewards at Fraher are unwilling to be stewards. I don't know if your county board are any good on these issues (the state of their two county grounds tells its own story though), but Croke Park will definitely be interested. They are safety obsessed to a fault, so they shouldn't be long responding on this. Or, if you aren't getting the response you want, newspapers will never refuse ink, send it on to somebody in a local paper (and certainly inform Croke Park in any correspondence with them that, if they don't take your complaint seriously and act on it, that there will be journalists involved soon.)

tonc76 · 12-03-2013 3:22pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Not very accurate, plus there was only 2500 at the ground on Sunday.

It is not so much an issue with the stadium itself, but rather with the stewards. I wasn't there admittedly, but I would guarantee the stand wasn't full.

The upper part of the stand was full but no-one was at the front of the stand due to the weather. There were also loads of people standing in aisles as wellas the walkway at the back of the stand. I tried to get into the stand at every access but couldn't do so as there was a crowd blocking the accesses (including the goons in "safety officer" jackets). The grass banks behind the goals had pools of mud at each of the access points and I witnessed several people slipping/falling on entry. Walsh Park is also a shambles but at least there is a covering of stone on 2 of the 3 banks which make it easier to keep your footing.

jj mo · 12-03-2013 3:34pm

blackbelt wrote: »

Absolutely shocking. I think these images should be forwarded to the complaints department inCroke Park.Don't think your county board will do anything other than give you a token "we'll look into this" and then don't bother.There are too many old hags working in county boards who only want to turn up to work at 10am and go home at 4.30 without having to listen to complaints or lift a finger.

No it's not absolutely shocking:rolleyes: but I do tend to agree with the second part of your post.

rpurfield · 12-03-2013 7:22pm

tonc76 wrote: »

The upper part of the stand was full but no-one was at the front of the stand due to the weather. There were also loads of people standing in aisles as wellas the walkway at the back of the stand. I tried to get into the stand at every access but couldn't do so as there was a crowd blocking the accesses (including the goons in "safety officer" jackets). The grass banks behind the goals had pools of mud at each of the access points and I witnessed several people slipping/falling on entry. Walsh Park is also a shambles but at least there is a covering of stone on 2 of the 3 banks which make it easier to keep your footing.

the grass banks in pairc tailteann in navan are closed off all the time for health and safety reasons like youve mentioned above.

BRAIN FEEDs · 12-03-2013 8:09pm

jj mo wrote: »

No it's not absolutely shocking:rolleyes: but I do tend to agree with the second part of your post.

Agreed,shocking and Horrendous are a small bit OTT.

OP i can understand your annoyance and well done on the pictures.

3 years ago,i was in lower Hogan croke park,25/30 minutes into the game,in steps this steward to our row and man handled this woman and daughter out of their seats to let two late comers into their seats. their were hundreds of empty seats all round us,the attendance for the game was something like 45,000 so it was well under capacity.

I emailed croke park,giving a good description of the steward,what section he was working from(i didnt have his bib number)
my grievence was the way he handled the woman,the timing(just before half time) the fact everyone around our section had to stand up while this steward made sure this woman and daughter were separated from their friends. i didnt know the woman from adam but felt compelled to mail croke park,got a response back from them and they said they would look into it:cool: whether they did or not,i dont know but it definitely deserved reporting.

i still see the same steward working there at games.

dzilla · 13-03-2013 12:20am

BRAIN FEEDs wrote: »

Agreed,shocking and Horrendous are a small bit OTT.

OP i can understand your annoyance and well done on the pictures.

3 years ago,i was in lower Hogan croke park,25/30 minutes into the game,in steps this steward to our row and man handled this woman and daughter out of their seats to let two late comers into their seats. their were hundreds of empty seats all round us,the attendance for the game was something like 45,000 so it was well under capacity.

I emailed croke park,giving a good description of the steward,what section he was working from(i didnt have his bib number)
my grievence was the way he handled the woman,the timing(just before half time) the fact everyone around our section had to stand up while this steward made sure this woman and daughter were separated from their friends. i didnt know the woman from adam but felt compelled to mail croke park,got a response back from them and they said they would look into it:cool: whether they did or not,i dont know but it definitely deserved reporting.

i still see the same steward working there at games.

I had a run in with a steward at the under21 munster fina @ dungarvanl in 2009 ... 4 turnstiles and only one open to general admission, i asked could dey open another and got threatened from him to shut up n put up

iDave · 13-03-2013 10:06am

It annoys me that Navan and Newbridge have their capacities gutted while this lark goes on elsewhere. Not just Fraher but PUC is bit of a deathtrap from what I'm told by anyone who goes there.

Mountainlad · 13-03-2013 11:59am

iDave wrote: »

It annoys me that Navan and Newbridge have their capacities gutted while this lark goes on elsewhere. Not just Fraher but PUC is bit of a deathtrap from what I'm told by anyone who goes there.

Páírc Uí Chaoimh is a shambles but it's closed for redevelopment now.

Again, I don't think the stadium's capacity was an issue at all here. There was plenty of seating around in front, and probably at the sides as well but nobody would sit there and the stewards didn't do their job. Fraher Field's official capacity is not 15000 under helath and safety regulations. It is less than Navan I'm sure, dunno anything about Newbridge.

Tom Joad · 13-03-2013 12:11pm

iDave wrote: »

It annoys me that Navan and Newbridge have their capacities gutted while this lark goes on elsewhere. Not just Fraher but PUC is bit of a deathtrap from what I'm told by anyone who goes there.

Very contradictory post there - why would it annoy you that their capacities are gutted - its for very good reason both grounds had their capacities limited for very good reason.

iDave · 13-03-2013 12:15pm

Tom Joad wrote: »

Very contradictory post there - why would it annoy you that their capacities are gutted - its for very good reason both grounds had their capacities limited for very good reason.

How is it contradictory. The real contradiction is Navan cant have grass banks but Dungarvan can. Why is it unsafe in one ground but not the other?

Mountainlad · 13-03-2013 12:28pm

iDave wrote: »

How is it contradictory. The real contradiction is Navan cant have grass banks but Dungarvan can. Why is it unsafe in one ground but not the other?

Fraher Field is never used for big championship games and it's capacity is rarely tested (and was not tested on Sunday). You'd get a big crowd for a game in Navan in the qualifiers I'd imagine? And if you don't, then I don't understand the complaint because if you can get a ticket to the match what's the issue?

Tom Joad · 13-03-2013 12:56pm

iDave wrote: »

How is it contradictory. The real contradiction is Navan cant have grass banks but Dungarvan can. Why is it unsafe in one ground but not the other?

It's contradictory becuase you call Fraher field and PUC deathtraps while bemoaning the fact that Navan and Newbridge have their attendance cut for being deathtraps.

Great attitude - if they can get away with it why can't we - never mind the dangers involved!!

Hammer Archer · 13-03-2013 12:59pm

Tom Joad wrote: »

Very contradictory post there - why would it annoy you that their capacities are gutted - its for very good reason both grounds had their capacities limited for very good reason.

I really cannot see the very good reason to be honest. I would be the first to agree that Páirc Tailteann is a kip, but that would be mainly due to the stand. Whatever about Newbridge (only been there 2 or 3 times), Navan comfortably held 20000 a few years back against Kildare. It wasn't especially crowded and it certainly wasn't dangerous, even on the grass banks. Indeed, more would have been there if the capacity wasn't limited to 20000. After this game, Croke Park then told us that the grass banks were too dangerous and ordered them to be closed off to the public, cutting the capacity once again. These are closed off all year round, even during County championship, O'Byrne Cup and League games where the crowd size would be similar to that at Fraher Field at the weekend.

So on one hand, grass banks are said to be dangerous (despite there never being an injury as long as I've been going to Navan). Yet on the other hand Fraher Field is allowed have grass banks on three sides. That's what I'm struggling to get my head around. Given Croke Park's obvious desire to build one stadium for Meath and Kildare's home games in the future, one could be forgiven for thinking that H&S wasn't the only thing on the GAA's mind when they cut the capacities of these grounds.

Tom Joad · 13-03-2013 2:55pm

1. I highlighted the contradictionary nature of the post because it comes across as "if they can get away with it, why can't we"!!

In my opinion the grass banks in the Fraher Field are dangerous and should be closed - simple as. I've been in Navan a good few times and also Newbridge - I do remember playing a qualifier against Louth in Tailteann a good few years ago on a really wet night - the banks were dangerous that night, people slipping all over the place. Given some of the horrific stadium disasters we have had in other spots, I think the GAA are right to err on the side of caution when health and safety is at play - but agree that it should equally apply to all grounds but shouldn't wait until accidents happen - the GAA have done risk assessments on this stuff.

Their used to be grass banks in Breffni and they were lethal back then - there is no place for them in modern football grounds.

As for the GAAs other motivations - we could fill a few threads on that one

Mountainlad · 13-03-2013 3:38pm

Tom Joad wrote: »

1. I highlighted the contradictionary nature of the post because it comes across as "if they can get away with it, why can't we"!!

In my opinion the grass banks in the Fraher Field are dangerous and should be closed - simple as. I've been in Navan a good few times and also Newbridge - I do remember playing a qualifier against Louth in Tailteann a good few years ago on a really wet night - the banks were dangerous that night, people slipping all over the place. Given some of the horrific stadium disasters we have had in other spots, I think the GAA are right to err on the side of caution when health and safety is at play - but agree that it should equally apply to all grounds but shouldn't wait until accidents happen - the GAA have done risk assessments on this stuff.

Their used to be grass banks in Breffni and they were lethal back then - there is no place for them in modern football grounds.

As for the GAAs other motivations - we could fill a few threads on that one

Your from Cavan, yes? How many times have you actually been to Fraher Field?

Anyone calling the place a death trap is wrong. I regularly go to the banks. The only danger I could see would be for children running around falling, but then I've seen children running up and down the steps in the stand in several stadiums and the potential for serious injury there is even greater.

Tom Joad · 13-03-2013 3:50pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Your from Cavan, yes? How many times have you actually been to Fraher Field?

Anyone calling the place a death trap is wrong. I regularly go to the banks. The only danger I could see would be for children running around falling, but then I've seen children running up and down the steps in the stand in several stadiums and the potential for serious injury there is even greater.

Yes I'm from Cavan - I've been to Fraher field twice, actually played on it too!!

I didn't call it a deathtrap - that was another poster. But I do believe that the banks are dangerous at the Fraher field as they are at other grounds - they have no place in a modern county ground. I'm not sure why they are still open if Tailteann had to close the grass banks.

Fraher Field - Disgrace

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