Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

marno21

The only part of this line of any importance for freight is Belview-Waterford. And I presume this is being left as a railway.

Qrt

Sam Russell wrote: »

The freight train has had its last whistle.

I’m fairly sure freight traffic has been increasing on the Irish rail network over the past few years.

MJohnston

Del.Monte wrote: »

For anyone who supports the destruction of our rail network in favour of bikes - this nonsense is back in the news. Brexit, global warming , the need to get passengers and freight back on the rails just passes over the heads of the intelligentsia in Wexford County Council.

Why did the rail line close?

Del.Monte

Sam Russell wrote: »

Agree totally.

The country has invested in motorways, and not railways. If we had drive on drive off freight trains, like used in the Channel Tunnel, there could be some point, but it would be impossible to go that way now we have a very comprehensive motorway network (with a few exceptions - Cork Limerick).

Ireland is too small and the rail network is now too restricted to make it work. The ending of sugar beet removed the last bulk freight, Even the fertiliser plant in Arklow has gone.

The freight train has had its last whistle.

Tara Mines, Ballina container traffic and timber to Waterford remain.

L1011

Rosslare is a RoRo port. It does not take containers and hence fantasy container liners to it will remain fantasy

Del.Monte

MJohnston wrote: »

Why did the rail line close?

There should be more than enough for you here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64856001

roadmaster

Del.Monte wrote: »

There should be more than enough for you here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64856001

If you could pretend we are ministers and sum that thread up in a 3 line summary it would be of great benefit.

riddlinrussell

roadmaster wrote: »

If you could pretend we are ministers and sum that thread up in a 3 line summary it would be of great benefit.

Poor Scheduling, Poor Maintenance, Poor Intermediate station use, Poor prospects for freight

Del.Monte

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Poor Scheduling, Poor Maintenance, Poor Intermediate station use, Poor prospects for freight

More like: no attempt to provide a useful timetable, deliberate policy of running line down since mid-1970s, no marketing of what little service there was.....

blanch152

Del.Monte wrote: »

For anyone who supports the destruction of our rail network in favour of bikes - this nonsense is back in the news. Brexit, global warming , the need to get passengers and freight back on the rails just passes over the heads of the intelligentsia in Wexford County Council.

That's great news, we could go from a hugely expensive loss-making railway that carried 25 people a day to a revenue-generating amenity open to many multiples all year round.

Del.Monte

blanch152 wrote: »

That's great news, we could go from a hugely expensive loss-making railway that carried 25 people a day to a revenue-generating amenity open to many multiples all year round.

Your numbers are incorrect and are Irish Rail spin. Could the lack of a proper timetable, marketing, and lack of connections having anything to do with it? No, you're right, rip it up for a few cyclists and put back in 10/20 years time at vast expense.

blanch152

Del.Monte wrote: »

Your numbers are incorrect and are Irish Rail spin. Could the lack of a proper timetable, marketing, and lack of connections having anything to do with it? No, you're right, rip it up for a few cyclists and put back in 10/20 years time at vast expense.

We won't be putting it back in 10/20 years time at vast expense.

Autonomous electric vehicles, will be the final nail in the coffin of trains.

Del.Monte

Here's the link to the wonderful service that CIE provide on the remaining Waterford/Limerick Junction line: http://www.irishrail.ie/media/12_waterfordclonmellimk_valid_from_20.11.2016.pdf

Useless to almost everybody - timings don't suit people working or studying in either Waterford or Limerick. The lack of a service on Sundays and Bank Holidays makes the service useless for workers or students returning to or from home/work at weekends.

No marketing of the line in living memory.

When it closes all the usual anti-rail charlatans will be posting here that nobody used the railway or they could all have been accommodated in a couple of taxis.

Del.Monte

blanch152 wrote: »

We won't be putting it back in 10/20 years time at vast expense.

Autonomous electric vehicles, will be the final nail in the coffin of trains.

You've been watching too much SciFi.

Qrt

Del.Monte wrote: »

Here's the link to the wonderful service that CIE provide on the remaining Waterford/Limerick Junction line: http://www.irishrail.ie/media/12_waterfordclonmellimk_valid_from_20.11.2016.pdf

Useless to almost everybody - timings don't suit people working or studying in either Waterford or Limerick. The lack of a service on Sundays and Bank Holidays makes the service useless for workers or students returning to or from home/work at weekends.

No marketing of the line in living memory.

When it closes all the usual anti-rail charlatans will be posting here that nobody used the railway or they could all have been accommodated in a couple of taxis.

I watched a video of that line and it seemed a lot busier than I had always thought, definitely busier than the Ballybrophy line.

riddlinrussell

Del.Monte wrote: »

More like: no attempt to provide a useful timetable, deliberate policy of running line down since mid-1970s, no marketing of what little service there was.....

I'm on your side here, its a disgrace how it was run, maybe offer running the route to a non CIE company and see if it puts the willies up them?

blanch152

Del.Monte wrote: »

Here's the link to the wonderful service that CIE provide on the remaining Waterford/Limerick Junction line: http://www.irishrail.ie/media/12_waterfordclonmellimk_valid_from_20.11.2016.pdf

Useless to almost everybody - timings don't suit people working or studying in either Waterford or Limerick. The lack of a service on Sundays and Bank Holidays makes the service useless for workers or students returning to or from home/work at weekends.

No marketing of the line in living memory.

When it closes all the usual anti-rail charlatans will be posting here that nobody used the railway or they could all have been accommodated in a couple of taxis.

Is it 39 gatekeepers on the line? They would pay some premium to have it open on a Sunday.

marno21

L1011 wrote: »

Rosslare is a RoRo port. It does not take containers and hence fantasy container liners to it will remain fantasy

Indeed. Rail connected Dublin Port & Waterford Port, along with the planned Foynes rail line reopening for freight, and the new Port of Cork development at Marino Point are more than sufficient for any rail freight needs.

CatInABox

In a country of limited resources, it's hard to justify the subsidy needed to keep some of these rail lines open, never mind the massive increase in subsidy needed to better the service to the point where it's useful. In terms of getting the most bang for your transport buck, these lines are very far away from being the most needed.

Greenways might not be the most useful way of utilising a line, but it's better than closing a line down and leaving it to rot, or just keeping a line open with s***e service, just so a local politician can say "I kept the line open!" while no one can realistically use it.

Del.Monte

marno21 wrote: »

Indeed. Rail connected Dublin Port & Waterford Port, along with the planned Foynes rail line reopening for freight, and the new Port of Cork development at Marino Point are more than sufficient for any rail freight needs.

When is Foynes reopening, a lot of talk and little else. There's no rail development planned for Marino Point or is there?

Del.Monte

blanch152 wrote: »

Is it 39 gatekeepers on the line? They would pay some premium to have it open on a Sunday.

I'm not up-to-date as to the number of gatekeepers but how does that affect the useless timetables on the line, the lack of marketing etc...and, of course, if CIE hadn't been so determined to kill off the line for decades they could have had a gradual programme of replacing gates with automatic barriers.

marno21

Del.Monte wrote: »

When is Foynes reopening, a lot of talk and little else. There's no rail development planned for Marino Point or is there?

Design work on the Foynes line is complete, it's upto SFPC to find customers/market for it now and if there is one it'll proceed.

I'm not sure about Marino Point but the line does pass nearby so the option is there if required. Port of Cork seem to be pushing Marino as a port for bulk goods which would be the best for any potential railfreight.

Markcheese

blanch152 wrote: »

We won't be putting it back in 10/20 years time at vast expense.

Autonomous electric vehicles, will be the final nail in the coffin of trains.

Autonomous vehicles won't be the death of trains, although they could well finish off underused services... Trains around Dúblin are doing what they're supposed to... Mass transit...
Everywhere else not so much...

Zubeneschamali

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm not up-to-date as to the number of gatekeepers but how does that affect the useless timetables on the line.

Not sure if serious?

You were demanding a service on Saturdays, Sundays and earlier and later on weekdays.

So 39 gatekeepers on overtime 5 days plus 39 more hired for weekend work. All 25 passengers are going to need to win the lotto to fund this even assuming the trains, drivers, other staff and infrastructure are free.

Or spend a bazillion euros to bridge or tunnel all those 39 road crossings, I suppose.

Markcheese

Del.Monte wrote: »

When is Foynes reopening, a lot of talk and little else. There's no rail development planned for Marino Point or is there?

I've a feeling that port of Cork want the "potential" of rail connectivity at Marino point, they got shot down by an Bord pleanála in the past ón development, because ringaskiddy has no potential rail link... Well Marino point gives them potential rail connectivity... Feic all use at the moment because the road link to the mainland is awful...

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

It would take longer to load and unload a train of freight than it would be to load it onto trucks and drive the 57km

in 1970, sure.

Deleted User wrote: »

Trains make no sense for a large portion of Ireland anymore, especially for freight.

they make massive sense hence they still exist and thankfully are very well used meaning we have less congestion then we would have if we were just to rely on the roads.

Deleted User wrote: »

This has been clear for years with the dwindling freight numbers carried by rail.

actually, it's not that clear as there were many many issues involved in the causation of the downturn of rail freight.

end of the road

Sam Russell wrote: »

Agree totally.

The country has invested in motorways, and not railways. If we had drive on drive off freight trains, like used in the Channel Tunnel, there could be some point, but it would be impossible to go that way now we have a very comprehensive motorway network (with a few exceptions - Cork Limerick).

Ireland is too small and the rail network is now too restricted to make it work. The ending of sugar beet removed the last bulk freight, Even the fertiliser plant in Arklow has gone.

The freight train has had its last whistle.

the fact the country invested in motor ways and not railways as well as motor ways simply means that ireland is stuck in a 1960s mind set where road regardless of over all cost and i am not specifically refering to monitary costs, can handle transport needs.
the fact we have freight trains still proves that even with ireland being a small country and having a restricted network, it works. it also clearly debunks the statement that the freight train has had it's last whistle.

blanch152 wrote: »

That's great news, we could go from a hugely expensive loss-making railway that carried 25 people a day to a revenue-generating amenity open to many multiples all year round.

i know the area well. there is absolutely no way in hell a greenway will become a revenue generating asset. it might get a few local users if it is lucky, and aeven then that is probably an over-estimation.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Not sure if serious?

You were demanding a service on Saturdays, Sundays and earlier and later on weekdays.

So 39 gatekeepers on overtime 5 days plus 39 more hired for weekend work. All 25 passengers are going to need to win the lotto to fund this even assuming the trains, drivers, other staff and infrastructure are free.

Or spend a bazillion euros to bridge or tunnel all those 39 road crossings, I suppose.

the infrastructure will be free. there is no problem there.
the crossings can be automated. no need for bridges or tunnels. simple and can be done on a rolling basis.
where are you getting this 25 passenger figure from? and where are others getting the 39 gate keepers figure from?
can you confirm if the gate keeper number is correct del.monte?

mr spuckler

end of the road wrote: »

the crossings can be automated.

this might have reduced in the years since but at the time when my dad worked in Irish Rail automated crossings cost around €1m per crossing.

L1011

end of the road wrote: »

the infrastructure will be free. there is no problem there.

Can you direct your magic free construction firm towards the Department of Health please?

blanch152

end of the road wrote: »

the fact the country invested in motor ways and not railways as well as motor ways simply means that ireland is stuck in a 1960s mind set where road regardless of over all cost and i am not specifically refering to monitary costs, can handle transport needs.
the fact we have freight trains still proves that even with ireland being a small country and having a restricted network, it works. it also clearly debunks the statement that the freight train has had it's last whistle.



i know the area well. there is absolutely no way in hell a greenway will become a revenue generating asset. it might get a few local users if it is lucky, and aeven then that is probably an over-estimation.



the infrastructure will be free. there is no problem there.
the crossings can be automated. no need for bridges or tunnels. simple and can be done on a rolling basis.
where are you getting this 25 passenger figure from? and where are others getting the 39 gate keepers figure from?
can you confirm if the gate keeper number is correct del.monte?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-rail-gatekeeper-parks-car-on-line-80222.html

Yes, getting rid of gatekeepers and automating gates is a simple straight-forward task.