Freeman Megamerge

littlemac1980

DesolateWinter wrote: »

I have to say that although the Freeman arguments may be considered odd or eccentric by most people, the underlying concept of questioning the status quo and the powers that be is healthy and indeed a necessity in any democracy. It's quite pathetic to listen to brain-washed Irish people - the same people that willingly take it up the arse from their government and bail out the elite and pay arbitrary tax every time the overpaid fools in the Dail demand it. Those same people have not the courage or conviction to challenge the motives of the ruling elite, be it politicians or the legal system. They Sleep walk their way through an economic nightmare wondering 'when did I sign up to this' For all your laziness and political lethargy, fellow country men, don't belittle those that have the courage to question those things that you can't muster the energy to question. Ignorance is bliss. But don't ever think that means we all should be suburban zombies. This state was built by people that questioned and were dissatisfied with what was dictated to them.

Playing World of Warcraft for 24 hours straight is a more compelling argument against corruption and the ruling Elite than the nonsense these people are spouting.

I'm all for checks and balances, but suggesting I should have to bash the best part of my brain with a hammer for 4 hours a day until I'm capable of Rowing-in behind a bunch of Numpties with nothing better to do with themselves insults all true reformists and revolutionaries.

ronan45

Ben Gilroy and the unlawful Arrest of John Squires ?

What the Hell is this about ?!?? talk about wasting garda time and resources

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXSp0OQ8whc

hullaballoo

There is an overwhelming number of people posting on that facebook page who are incapable of spelling their own names.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Robbo

hullaballoo wrote: »

There is an overwhelming number of people posting on that facebook page who are incapable of spelling their own names.

They don't want to end up owing themselves €25k for misuse of their trademarked name, do they?

"I accidently my own name"

johnnyskeleton

Robbo wrote: »

They don't want to end up owing themselves €25k for misuse of their trademarked name, do they?

"I accidently my own name"

Speaking of trademarking a name, if this case succeeds maybe the freemen will be proved right after all:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/singer-sues-rt%C3%A9-over-use-of-damo-in-tv-series-1.1523914

Singer sues RTÉ over use of ‘Damo’ in TV series
Court hears claim name was breach of trademark

A singer/songwriter is suing RTÉ and comedian Andy Quirke for alleged copyright infringement over their use of the name , ‘Damo’ in the forthcoming TV show.
The action was brought in the High Court today by Damien O’Regan who claims he registered the name ‘Damo’ with the Irish Patents Office several years ago in relation to entertainment services, music and lyrics he provides.

Marve

I had a look in on the 'Protests,Meetings,Marches across Ireland' fb page.

https://www.facebook.com/ProtestsMeetingsMarchesIreland

Brace yourselves:

Protests, meetings, marches around Ireland shared a link
.3 hours ago
''Wonders will never cease... Newstalk have contacted Tony Rochford and tomorrow morning at 10am Hörður Torfason will have an interview with Pat Kenny. It's hitting the mainstream media...''

Many of the wizards believe this is a set up, another would like to charge Newstalk so they can raise funds, for the lockout sept 18th. (insert blank look here) lol

BornToKill

DesolateWinter wrote: »

Those same people have not the courage or conviction to challenge the motives of the ruling elite, be it politicians or the legal system. They Sleep walk their way through an economic nightmare wondering 'when did I sign up to this' For all your laziness and political lethargy, fellow country men, don't belittle those that have the courage to question those things that you can't muster the energy to question. Ignorance is bliss. But don't ever think that means we all should be suburban zombies. This state was built by people that questioned and were dissatisfied with what was dictated to them.

Um, you know what people want better than they do themselves? A dangerous line of argument, with a deeply flawed pedigree. Have you considered the possibility that, rather than being down to a lack of energy or sheer ignorance, people may have considered the issues and consciously opted for a course of action other than the one you arrived at? You can disagree with them of course but it is patronising to belittle them and their choices.

Marve

''Wonders will never cease... Newstalk have contacted Tony Rochford and tomorrow morning at 10am Hörður Torfason will have an interview with Pat Kenny. It's hitting the mainstream media...''

Protest,meetings and marches posted few hrs later.....
Well.... It appear wonders will cease after all!!! They wanted full control of the interview and the ability to edit out as fitted their needs... So the revolution will not be televised (or broadcast)!!! The initial plan was that he was going to go on live - someone thought this wasn't a good idea... Via Tony Rochford


what Tony said:

"Pat Kennys newstalk were back on they wanted us in 1 hour earlier to prerecord interview I declined their offer they would have edited everything out about the 18th"

status at> https://www.facebook.com/tony.rochford

Losty Dublin

Marve wrote: »

''Wonders will never cease... Newstalk have contacted Tony Rochford and tomorrow morning at 10am Hörður Torfason will have an interview with Pat Kenny. It's hitting the mainstream media...''

Protest,meetings and marches posted few hrs later.....
Well.... It appear wonders will cease after all!!! They wanted full control of the interview and the ability to edit out as fitted their needs... So the revolution will not be televised (or broadcast)!!! The initial plan was that he was going to go on live - someone thought this wasn't a good idea... Via Tony Rochford


what Tony said:

"Pat Kennys newstalk were back on they wanted us in 1 hour earlier to prerecord interview I declined their offer they would have edited everything out about the 18th"

status at> https://www.facebook.com/tony.rochford

So they turned down a prime interview slot with Ireland's most respected current affairs broadcaster because they won't ask him about what he wants to talk about :rolleyes:

ezra_pound

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So they turned down a prime interview slot with Ireland's most respected current affairs broadcaster because they won't ask him about what he wants to talk about :rolleyes:

It's actually because they won't talk about something that never happened.

The 18th of September -the great revolution which didn't happen.

Losty Dublin

ezra_pound wrote: »

It's actually because they won't talk about something that never happened.

The 18th of September -the great revolution which didn't happen.

I appreciate that, good man, but normally you'd think that it's no better chance for their message in general to be raised on a reputable fora and that they'd bite the hand off for such exposure.

Personally speaking, I feel that they feared a lamb type slaughter had they have gone on with PK.

Apparently Gilroy and co. didn't attend Court this morning.

He did put this out though.

http://www.tnsradio.com/4/post/2013/09/ben-gilroy-charlie-allen-news-bulletin.html

General Zod

Gilroy (tm) is going to turn into the Scarlet Pimpernel, dashing across the countryside, the scourge of the banking aristocracy, ready to assist repressed downtrodden stud farmers wherever they may be.

jd

Bench warrant issued for Gilroy and McDermott - wonder what story is with Charlie Allen

Losty Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

Apparently Gilroy and co. didn't attend Court this morning.

He did put this out though.

http://www.tnsradio.com/4/post/2013/09/ben-gilroy-charlie-allen-news-bulletin.html

I went to look at said website. The office net nanny won't allow me to view it as it's considered to be a "Malicious Website"

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

DesolateWinter

Playing World of Warcraft for 24 hours straight is a more compelling argument against corruption and the ruling Elite than the nonsense these people are spouting.

I'm all for checks and balances, but suggesting I should have to bash the best part of my brain with a hammer for 4 hours a day until I'm capable of Rowing-in behind a bunch of Numpties with nothing better to do with themselves insults all true reformists and revolutionaries.

This is ridiculous, were does this vitriol stem from? Your're angry at a group of lay people that are trying to empower themselves by learning law. Law, a subject which is the preserve of the elite. Does it scare you, the idea of non-lawyers/ ordinary people studying the law and trying to understand their rights without paying astronomical amounts to the coffers of the law society? Ok they may make mistakes and misinterpret things, that's a given. But why detest people like this? Ultimately they're trying to counter the fog of ignorance and lack of knowledge that the average person has when it comes to the law and their rights. That's a noble cause in my mind. Why should people be dependent on overpaid lawyers to defend themselves, this dependency affirms that justice is in the hands of those that can afford the best lawyers and that's not just.

Pro Hoc Vice

DesolateWinter wrote: »

Playing World of Warcraft for 24 hours straight is a more compelling argument against corruption and the ruling Elite than the nonsense these people are spouting.

I'm all for checks and balances, but suggesting I should have to bash the best part of my brain with a hammer for 4 hours a day until I'm capable of Rowing-in behind a bunch of Numpties with nothing better to do with themselves insults all true reformists and revolutionaries.

This is ridiculous, were does this vitriol stem from? Your're angry at a group of lay people that are trying to empower themselves by learning law. Law, a subject which is the preserve of the elite. Does it scare you, the idea of non-lawyers/ ordinary people studying the law and trying to understand their rights without paying astronomical amounts to the coffers of the law society? Ok they may make mistakes and misinterpret things, that's a given. But why detest people like this? Ultimately they're trying to counter the fog of ignorance and lack of knowledge that the average person has when it comes to the law and their rights. That's a noble cause in my mind. Why should people be dependent on overpaid lawyers to defend themselves, this dependency affirms that justice is in the hands of those that can afford the best lawyers and that's not just.

Would you say the same to a person who believed that attaching a tadpole to their forehead would cure their cancer. No you would not. So who when someone sprouts rubbish law do you say a well they are trying. My issue with the arguments I have seen put forward by these freemen is that they prey on the vulnerable in society, the people who are on the brink of disaster, and they offer a solution for €250 and then get thousands to sign up.

People who have good cases can get lawyers up and down the country to take cases on no foal no fee any day of the week. I and other lawyers take on cases with no hope of getting paid because its the right thing todo. But don't be surprised when people laugh at the guy who says he studies and says the earth is flat. Will I be angry at their stupidity, dam right I will.

DesolateWinter

Great quip. Now spend some of your time attempting to understand the nuances of law that these 'tin hat' people have spent years studying. Then you can provide a factual constructive deconstruction of their arguments and show what idiots they are.

DesolateWinter

I've a great imagination but it's a stretch for me to imagine what a 19th century philosopher would 'think' about anything, especially given that they're dead. Does your interpretation of what a 19th century philosopher would make of my argument validate your claims? If so, well done.

Pro Hoc Vice

DesolateWinter wrote: »

Great quip. Now spend some of your time attempting to understand the nuances of law that these 'tin hat' people have spent years studying. Then you can provide a factual constructive deconstruction of their arguments and show what idiots they are.

I have spent 7 years studying law, and 10 years in practice, is that enough to say that I have not seen one logical, or factual or legal argument from a freeman. I have researched in detail, the Magna Carta, the common law, and have still not found one tiny shrewd to back up their claims. I even went to the trouble of downloading Blacks law dictionary to prove they spout crap.

Do I respect people who try and learn the law, yes, do I try and help people in trouble with the law yes, but I will not sit by while charlatans rob vulnerable people.

DesolateWinter

People who have good cases can get lawyers up and down the country to take cases on no foal no fee any day of the week. I and other lawyers take on cases with no hope of getting paid because its the right thing todo. But don't be surprised when people laugh at the guy who says he studies and says the earth is flat. Will I be angry at their stupidity, dam right I will.

They prey on the vulnerable? Really, how? Why not give examples to prove this point. They offer a solution for €250 really, who offers this €250 solution? I've never heard of such a thing. If you are a lawyer (which I doubt) then it's clear from what you've written that in a way you've proven the reason this whole movement exists. Arrogance. Do you think that learning the law is beyond the intellectual capacity of anyone other than a trained lawyer? Making such a moronic analogy is to say an ordinary man learning the law is akin to someone in the dark ages trying trying to determine the earth is not flat. What arrogance. Lawyers are not some special sub species with some divine understanding of knowledge. Law books exist, intelligent people exist that can read those books. Hence non-lawyers can learn the law.

Pro Hoc Vice

DesolateWinter wrote: »

People who have good cases can get lawyers up and down the country to take cases on no foal no fee any day of the week. I and other lawyers take on cases with no hope of getting paid because its the right thing todo. But don't be surprised when people laugh at the guy who says he studies and says the earth is flat. Will I be angry at their stupidity, dam right I will.

They prey on the vulnerable? Really, how? Why not give examples to prove this point. They offer a solution for €250 really, who offers this €250 solution? I've never heard of such a thing. If you are a lawyer (which I doubt) then it's clear from what you've written that in a way you've proven the reason this whole movement exists. Arrogance. Do you think that learning the law is beyond the intellectual capacity of anyone other than a trained lawyer? Making such a moronic analogy is to say an ordinary man learning the law is akin to someone in the dark ages trying trying to determine the earth is not flat. What arrogance. Lawyers are not some special sub species with some divine understanding of knowledge. Law books exist, intelligent people exist that can read those books. Hence non-lawyers can learn the law.

If you had followed any of this thread you would have come across this http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/inistioge-man-behind-controversial-trust-1-5474414

The fee is here http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/trust-helping-borrowers-in-trouble-unlikely-to-work-29538376.html

I never said what you claim, read it again. I clearly said I respect anyone who attempts to learn the law, in fact I respect anyone who says they would like a libertarian freeman world, but please don't tell me that freeman stuff is the law it is not, nor has it ever been.

I might respect you if this was more than your 6th post. Fine if you don't want to believe what I say, thankfully I don't have to prove myself to you or any member if boards.

DesolateWinter

I have spent 7 years studying law, and 10 years in practice, is that enough to say that I have not seen one logical, or factual or legal argument from a freeman. I have researched in detail, the Magna Carta, the common law, and have still not found one tiny shrewd to back up their claims. I even went to the trouble of downloading Blacks law dictionary to prove they spout crap.

Do I respect people who try and learn the law, yes, do I try and help people in trouble with the law yes, but I will not sit by while charlatans rob vulnerable people.

I agree with you. I don't condone Charlatans. I've spent the last four years studying law as a lay person and I'm talking about traditional law ; contract, tort, constitutional law etc. I even read Irish high court cases in my spare time. I believe that there are a lot of muppets out there that are getting disinformation from youtube sources and other websites. I understand that. These same folks are probably appearing in court and making silly arguments and trying to get out of their social responsibilities. I don't condone that. My point is, that I believe that this movement has created a new interest in law and an awareness of rights and in many ways is the impetus for people to educate themselves in law. That is a good thing in my opinion and makes for a healthier democracy and society.

Pro Hoc Vice

DesolateWinter wrote: »

I have spent 7 years studying law, and 10 years in practice, is that enough to say that I have not seen one logical, or factual or legal argument from a freeman. I have researched in detail, the Magna Carta, the common law, and have still not found one tiny shrewd to back up their claims. I even went to the trouble of downloading Blacks law dictionary to prove they spout crap.

Do I respect people who try and learn the law, yes, do I try and help people in trouble with the law yes, but I will not sit by while charlatans rob vulnerable people.

I agree with you. I don't condone Charlatans. I've spent the last four years studying law as a lay person and I'm talking about traditional law ; contract, tort, constitutional law etc. I even read Irish high court cases in my spare time. I believe that there are a lot of muppets out there that are getting disinformation from youtube sources and other websites. I understand that. These same folks are probably appearing in court and making silly arguments and trying to get out of their social responsibilities. I don't condone that. My point is, that I believe that this movement has created a new interest in law and an awareness of rights and in many ways is the impetus for people to educate themselves in law. That is a good thing in my opinion and makes for a healthier democracy and society.

Fine as long as people learn what is real not phony. By all means I have no issue with a person saying I want the law to be x or y. As long as the person accepts what the law is.

The law is changed by ordinary people with ordinary cases with either the help of lawyers or sometimes even by themselves. But don't be surprised when a lawyer calls a muppet a muppet.

I have witnessed lay litigants in court, only one of the many impressed me. He also impressed the SC. the rest with their bogus arguments and no understanding just annoy everyone.

DesolateWinter

infosys wrote: »

If you had followed any of this thread you would have come across this http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/inistioge-man-behind-controversial-trust-1-5474414

The fee is here http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/trust-helping-borrowers-in-trouble-unlikely-to-work-29538376.html

I never said what you claim, read it again. I clearly said I respect anyone who attempts to learn the law, in fact I respect anyone who says they would like a libertarian freeman world, but please don't tell me that freeman stuff is the law it is not, nor has it ever been.

I might respect you if this was more than your 6th post. Fine if you don't want to believe what I say, thankfully I don't have to prove myself to you or any member if boards.

Please see my last message. I do not condone people trying to shirk their social responsibilities. Indeed, I think in many ways we're on the same page. My whole point has been that I don't think those that try to educate themselves in law should be lauded as eccentric or 'special'. I think this way of thinking is healthy and good. Like all movements there will always be people that take advantage, the ones to offer a silver bullet solution - at a price. I believe this is wrong. My wish is for more people to make an effort to educate themselves on their rights because it seems to me the majority of people are in complete ignorance. It amazes me that schooling in Ireland doesn't bother to concern itself with teaching it's students the constitution and the law.

ezra_pound

DesolateWinter wrote: »

Please see my last message. I do not condone people trying to shirk their social responsibilities. Indeed, I think in many ways we're on the same page. My whole point has been that I don't think those that try to educate themselves in law should be lauded as eccentric or 'special'. I think this way of thinking is healthy and good. Like all movements there will always be people that take advantage, the ones to offer a silver bullet solution - at a price. I believe this is wrong. My wish is for more people to make an effort to educate themselves on their rights because it seems to me the majority of people are in complete ignorance. It amazes me that schooling in Ireland doesn't bother to concern itself with teaching it's students the constitution and the law.

If you're suggesting that what the freemen preach is education then you need to be rebooted wiped and loaded with a fresh install of windows.

Schools do some kind of social science course which includes introduction to constitution. Better than anything you'll learn from the Looney brigade.

johnnyskeleton

DesolateWinter wrote: »

Please see my last message. I do not condone people trying to shirk their social responsibilities. Indeed, I think in many ways we're on the same page. My whole point has been that I don't think those that try to educate themselves in law should be lauded as eccentric or 'special'. I think this way of thinking is healthy and good. Like all movements there will always be people that take advantage, the ones to offer a silver bullet solution - at a price. I believe this is wrong. My wish is for more people to make an effort to educate themselves on their rights because it seems to me the majority of people are in complete ignorance. It amazes me that schooling in Ireland doesn't bother to concern itself with teaching it's students the constitution and the law.

If you read back though this thread (something that is well worth doing) you'll see that many posters share the same view that it is good that people think critically about the law.

Equally, if people believe freman law is how the country should be run, that's also a valid if eccentric view to hold.

But these people like gilroy and Allen who make up the law as they go along and charge money for it do not fall into either category but try to convince people that they have hidden legal secrets which they sell for financial gain. They are rightly criticised for doing that.

NoQuarter

DesolateWinter wrote: »

Do you think that learning the law is beyond the intellectual capacity of anyone other than a trained lawyer? .

How would that work then?