Microsoft says: "PC gamers are better than console gamers"

Jazzy

CORaven wrote: »

SC2 is a little insane and one of the higher up in levels of micromanagement requirements. As for other RTSs I have played: AoE series*, C&C series, CoH, DoW series, Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander. They all worked fine with a controller.

they all worked fine with a controller if you are comfortable with being completely sh1t at those games yes

Azza

In the example given, If you where in such a position facing the enemy, how are you going to know the exact angle to press on the thumbstick to get to cover in the optimal time with out seeing the cover. You going to have to estimate it. Yes potentially you can get to cover at optimum speed but your probably not going to achieve that, although it might be marginally quicker than m+k.

However that minor benefit is inconsequential the vastly superior aiming precision that mouse and keyboard offers. Turn rate is also superior with the K+M.

My perfered controls of choice per genre.
FPS: K+M
RTS:K+M
RPG: K+M
Sports: Joypad
Racing: Steering Wheel
Fighting Game: Fight Stick
Flight Sim: Joystick

Overheal

To be fair I've never seen this thread devolve into this level of minutiae.

Helix

lads

seriously

have a word with yourselves will you?

Headshot

Helix wrote: »

lads

seriously

have a word with yourselves will you?

talking to yourself is a sign of madness

Grumpypants

Best Thread ever

Hank Scorpio

I think alot of posters here are unaware or have played games like Quake/UT etc to a semi decent level. It would be impossible for any player using a pad to beat even low skilled players in these games, absolutely impossible. The games derive on skills which aren't possible to do on a pad.

I think good console players could beat some PC players in games like COD though as its those games are much less skill based.

That's not saying that console players couldn't get good at ut/q3 over time using mice and keyboards on a PC.

Obvious post is obvious.

Kinetic^

cherryghost wrote: »

a bit of low level trolling.

Why not stop your poor trolling then?

Wossack

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Why not stop your poor trolling then?

he's typing it with a 360 controller - ye gotta cut him some slack

hooradiation

Helix wrote: »

lads

seriously

have a word with yourselves will you?

God, i am slowly coming around to the idea of a PC 'gamer' subform.

Just to put this kind of shit and the people who propagate it in a dark box somewhere so they can be forgotten about.

Kiith

hooradiation wrote: »

God, i am slowly coming around to the idea of a PC 'gamer' subform.

Just to put this kind of shit and the people who propagate it in a dark box somewhere so they can be forgotten about.

You're as anti-pc as others are pro-pc though. I've seen as much 'All pc users are elitist and look down on people who play consoles' as i've seen 'Pc's are much better then consoles'

The 'console' crowd are as bad as the 'pc' crowd these days.

Can't we all just get a long? :pac:

super_furry

So anyway...............PS3 joypads or 360?

:P

Retr0gamer

super_furry wrote: »

So anyway...............PS3 joypads or 360?

:P

Sega Saturn.

hooradiation

Kiith wrote: »

You're as anti-pc as others are pro-pc though.

No, i just want this nonsense to fuck off and die in a fire.
The same way if there some kind of "360 is better than ps3" nonsense I'd call them all useless shits too.


Oh, and as an aside this sentiment
"All pc users are elitist and look down on people who play consoles"
is not equal to this one
"Pc's are much better then consoles"

Kiith

hooradiation wrote: »

No, i just want this nonsense to fuck off and die in a fire.
The same way if there some kind of "360 is better than ps3" nonsense I'd call them all useless shits too.


Oh, and as an aside this sentiment
"All pc users are elitist and look down on people who play consoles"
is not equal to this one
"Pc's are much better then consoles"

I think we're all sick of the argument at this stage, but it will keep coming back.

And i know those statements aren't the same. I was just saying that 'console' users bitch about pc's as much as 'pc' users bitch about consoles these days.

hooradiation

People just need to be less insecure and butthurt over video games of all fucking things. It's a hobby goddamn it, not a lifestyle choice.

mrm

Kiith wrote: »

You're as anti-pc as others are pro-pc though. I've seen as much 'All pc users are elitist and look down on people who play consoles' as i've seen 'Pc's are much better then consoles'

The 'console' crowd are as bad as the 'pc' crowd these days.

Can't we all just get a long? :pac:

We could all get along if..... the PC users stopped invading numerous threads with this spurious 'I am better than thou' ****. Honestly, we all laughed heartly the first time but it has now become a boring quest for validation.

Just take this thread for example. An blog post is pasted here and it is about 'a leading individual in PC gaming' who is simply p*issed off that a leading console company wont support his diminishing PC gaming market; then proceeds to forward assumptions on behalf of Microsoft ('So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative' - direct quote???) with the aid of the usual 'I've heard from reliable sources':rolleyes:.......

A pc gamer reads and posts title- 'Microsoft says PC gamers are better than console gamers' (WTF) and so the same sh*t raises its unnecessary head once again. The earliest OT thread ever! At the title line FFS. This thread makes Halos circular design interesting! I still can't stop reading though.

In saying all that we are all gamers no matter what we play on, so I don't support the fractitious proposal of a separate PC forum. A lot of consistantly good posters here, I wouldn't like them to go elsewhere. Without their opinions I may not be playing STALKER: SoC at the moment....great game, no matter what format I get to play it on! I would just prefer if this sh*t topic received the same mod treatment as the equally sh*t console wars topic.

Chairman Meow

mrm wrote: »

An blog post is pasted here and it is about 'a leading individual in PC gaming' who is simply p*issed off that a leading console company wont support his diminishing PC gaming market;

You are aware PC gaming accounted for the majority of EAs revenue recently right? Should i find the link about cthulu saves the world selling more on PC in one day than it did on XBL in a year?

ríomhaire

CORaven wrote: »

Take the above scenario on the left. In this instance you are the blue circle, enemy is the red one. We will say that you need to retreat to behind that wall for cover while shooting at the red fellow. If you do it with an analogue stick you can potentially do it as the crow flies and get there asap. When using a K&M, as you are actively aiming at a guy, you are unable to readjust your movements when your aiming starts to curve you and you will hit the wall unless you release the D key.
Assuming the enemy stays still or moves in any direction other than exactly S45'E constantly, K&M will bump into the wall or take longer than the fluid movement of a gamepad.

Coward, what you should do is move towards him but slightly to the side and then circle strafe him while firing!



But yeah. There really is no argument here. For first person shooters a keyboard and mouse set up allows much faster and more precise aiming that a thumbstick can. There really isn't an argument against this. It's not a matter of preference, it's a matter of hardware. With a mouse you can aim as fast and precisely as you can move your own hand, with a thumbstick you're limited to whatever physical range the thumbstick can move in. You have a minimum and maximum speed you can aim at and it's much less precise. It's not a matter of preference in the same way whether a Land Rover or Smart Car is better for off-roading is not. It's a physical limit.

Now it's true that a keyboard set-up locks you to a four axis movement relative to the current direction where you are looking at, but I would like to name one first person shooter where the ability to walk at an angle of 15° relative to your current direction is a bigger advantage than being able to shoot the other guy faster, easier and more accurately.

And you know what's great about PC gaming? If you put in the effort you could make your won control setup with a thumbstick and mouse, getting the best of everything. Seriously. Get a Wii remote and nunchuck, a Bluetooth dongle for your PC and find drivers for it on the internet. Set up the the nunchuck for the game (most PC FPSs support thumbsticks as well as keyboards) and there you have in your left hand a thumbstick for movement and two buttons and in your right a mouse for aiming, left click, right click, mousewheel up and down, mousewheel click and whatever peripheral buttons your mouse comes with.



Edit: Now I'm not saying OMG PC BEST CONSOLES SUCK LOLOLOL. I love console games. I own a Wii and often play PS3 and 360 games (mostly my brother's) and I love them too. Pads are fine and I have nothing against them (and some types of games work much, much better with them than with mouse & keyboard). There is no better way to play video games, they're entertainment products that are used to have fun and if you're not having fun you're doing it wrong. Some people prefer just to be able to pop a game in and play and some people prefer customising the hell out of everything and some people prefer to have either option at different times. Some people prefer playing first person shooter's on a pad I have no problem with them. Whatever they find more fun they find more fun, but claiming that a thumbstick gives equal aiming or greater aiming ability, control or precision to a good mouse in a first person shooter is not a matter of opinion. It's wrong.

Again: By all means if you find playing with a pad more enjoyable continue to do so. Anyone who says that you're not having fun the right way and a keyboard & mouse is more fun and you're fool for using pad is a goddamn moron. What you prefer, you prefer and if anyone ever claims that their way of enjoying a video game is better than your way of enjoying a video game has his head up his ass. But if someone claims that the mouse gives more control and precision for aiming in a first person shooter than a thumbstick; they're 100% correct.

BlastedGlute

The advert on the foot of this page was for star wars the old republic, not uncharted 12 or whatever. Pc is alive and well. I love my Xbox but only for a couple of titles, namely gears of war so I'll be getting gow3 and leave it at that. Then it'll be battlefield 3 and skyrim for PC. I'm debating getting modern warfare 3 at all, Jesus it looks all kinds of muck. Like a map pack for call of duty 4??? But there's enough console gamers out there who don't think these things through quite as much and I'm sure it'll earn a pretty penny. Battlefield 3 looks pretty flakey on console but they needed to release it there for the loots! The pc gamer still finishes with the more complete experience.

super_furry

Chairman Meow wrote: »

You are aware PC gaming accounted for the majority of EAs revenue recently right? Should i find the link about cthulu saves the world selling more on PC in one day than it did on XBL in a year?

In fairness, with Cthulu in particular, you're not comparing like with like. On the Xbox, it's only available on the Indie Marketplaces, which is hidden away in the backend of the store. What's more, it's only available in the UK, USA, Canada and a few other European countries. Steam would have a much, much larger potential customer base, and it got quite a heavy promotional push there.

Tallon

Dear jesus, what did I start :eek:

ríomhaire

super_furry wrote: »

Steam would have a much, much larger potential customer base

Steam having a large customer base kind of proves his point anyway.

Blowfish

CORaven wrote: »

I recommend you play Halo Wars. It is nowhere near as intense as StarCraft, but the controls are very fluid and idiot proof. Using this as a base and adding concepts from other console RTSs, such as C&C:KW's radial menu to add missing standards such as squads and remote recruitment, you are on par with a K&M.

Bar maybe your first 3 games, who actually uses menu's in RTS's? Every single command is given through keyboard shortcuts as it means that you (ironically enough given your other argument) don't hinder your movement/selection with the mouse and nothing gets in the way visually.

super_furry

ríomhaire wrote: »

Steam having a large customer base kind of proves his point anyway.

Not really, Steam only has a larger customer base than Xbox Indie games. I believe that both Xbox Live and Steam have roughly around the same number of user accounts - around 35million each.

http://store.steampowered.com/news/4502/
http://majornelson.com/2011/06/03/a-few-stats-before-we-head-into-e3/

sierra117x

your all doing a horrible horrible job at defending pc's. your using generic arguments like hotkeys and graphics capabilties. at the end of the day console controles are more than functionable for playing rts but i dont believe they would ever stand up against a good keyboard and mouse. they are however much much easier to pick up and play with than a keyboard and mouse. with a controller even the stupidest most retarded individual should be able to get up to speed with all the in game controls within a few minutes of practice. but it is much harder to do that with pc controls. maybe im just a slow learner but it takes me a long long time to get to grips with shortcuts and hotkeys when i get a game. once i do however im far better off.

as for graphics well unless you have a purpose built pc(not available to everyone. i dont know the first thing about building a pc from the ground up and i dont know anyone else who does) then your looking at spending a fair bit of cash to get yourself a decent gaming pc. i forked out 7-8 hundred alongside 4 more for a hi def tv to play it on and i still cant play some of the bigger games at max capabilty

mrm

Chairman Meow wrote: »

You are aware PC gaming accounted for the majority of EAs revenue recently right? Should i find the link about cthulu saves the world selling more on PC in one day than it did on XBL in a year?

Some more miscomprehension here. I am just paraphrasing the blog post so feel free, dig up any link or isolated sales figures you want, but please send it and the simpsons gif to Mr. Rahul Sood, the author of the blog. He most likely wont view it though as he is too busy wishing that the PC had the monopoly on gaming!

I think where you aimed your response was a bit off. Were you using a gamepad? I suggest you should try a K&M.:D

Duggy747

Hands down I believe a FPS is better with a Keyboard & Mouse. I can play perfectly fine with a joypad but the K&M just has the percision and I'm able to move much quicker. Actually, I play my FPS games with my touchpad and I'm a damn sight quicker than using the average mouse :P

For everything else like racing and whatnot a gamepad is perfect. Whenever I'm not playing a FPS I always plug in my 360 controller.

I'll always be a PC player but I never look down on consoles. Some of my best years as a gamer have been spent on a console......................I'm going playing some SNES :pac:

Overheal

super_furry wrote: »

In fairness, with Cthulu in particular, you're not comparing like with like. On the Xbox, it's only available on the Indie Marketplaces, which is hidden away in the backend of the store. What's more, it's only available in the UK, USA, Canada and a few other European countries. Steam would have a much, much larger potential customer base, and it got quite a heavy promotional push there.

It's not as though Steam comes pre-installed on a new PC. You already have to be a PC gamer, with a Steam account, and be interested in running the program regularly or visiting the store page through your web browser. I know plenty of people that don't run steam only but occasionally.

Basically what you've established is that there is a healthy market of active PC gamers that perhaps support indie developers more than XBLA does.

Jazzy

if PC games are more complicated and have a higher skill curve would that not mean the people that play them and get good at them are better then someone thats just as good on a less complicated, lower skill curved game.

lil' johnny might be very good at call of duty modern black war: rise of the gummy bears but put him onto ztn in quakelive and he would be totally lost.. and then if you get big jimmy who is very good at quakelive and put him into CoD, i find big jimmy adapts far better in this comparatively simple game. ive seen this dozens of times btw