Microsoft says: "PC gamers are better than console gamers"

Tallon

Title changed, I wasn't the one who said 'PC gamers were better'

I was merely quoting the article

ShadowHearth

jaykhunter wrote: »

Any chance of moving it to the PC forums? I hate getting harangued about how awful my gaming system is. I don't care, please leave me alone. Nothing positive can come out of a trolling title like that.

there is no PC gamer forum. which is prety weird to be honest...

i dont know about trolling by OP, tallon. Just some boardsies cant have a good discussion and it will end up in handbag duels across the board.

Auvers

DarkJager wrote: »

I'd class myself as being a fairly good fps player with a controller (*don't use autoaim) and I'm pretty sure I'd give anyone with a mouse + kb a good run for their money.

I never get involved in these pissing matches but that statement is frankly ridiculous, an average FPS player with key\mouse would trounce the best FPS console pad player every time

I actually don't know how anyone plays FPS games with a controller, I just cant get used to the restrictions of a pad



*I didnt know there was even autoaim on console FPS games

jaykhunter

Ah lol, not accusing talon of trolling at all! the title can be easily misconstrued to put peeps in a bad mood. Although I don't use mouse & keyboard I imagine that it's a better control input for accuracy/quickness etc than a gamepad. Maybe MS says : PC controls > Console controls?

I can't believe there isn't a PC subsection in boards! Are there not that many of ye?

ShadowHearth

jaykhunter wrote: »

Ah lol, not accusing talon of trolling at all! the title can be easily misconstrued to put peeps in a bad mood. Although I don't use mouse & keyboard I imagine that it's a better control input for accuracy/quickness etc than a gamepad. Maybe MS says : PC controls > Console controls?

I can't believe there isn't a PC subsection in boards! Are there not that many of ye?

to be honest, there is nowhere for PC geeks to go lol. just here! i dont mind. community get shattered with too many subforums.

FPS and RTS is better with K+M. Racing games are just brutally anal job to play on K+M thought. i am looking to buy myself a racing wheel or xbox pc controller soon enough, just because its crap steer car with keyboard.

hooradiation

ShadowHearth wrote: »

there is no PC gamer forum. which is prety weird to be honest...

This is the PC gamer forum. You can tell by all the childish whining about "consoles" and "dumbing down".

Skerries

oh there are just as many pc players i'd imagine on here as there are console players
but we don't go bragging about it

also a lot of pc players would also have one or more consoles
generally all the pc stuff goes into this forum or the dedicated forums like Starcraft or RPG

Tallon

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i dont know about trolling by OP, tallon.

I am not trolling, if you have a problem with my post, report it.

This is the second time you have brought this up in this thread, so drop it

jaykhunter

i can't help but chuckle at your posts with your avatar tallon

DarkJager

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


Sounds like someone needs to plug a 360 pad into his pc and join a quake 3 deathmatch server for a wake up call.

With a pad its not just aiming, your entire range of movement is limited. The speed at which you can turn around and so forth. With a mouse your only limitation is your own reaction speed.

Theres a reason we're not using controllers to use windows.

Nope those settings can be adjusted for a pad as well so it's also down to reaction speed. A **** player is a **** player regardless of what he is using. To think m +kb is without question the bigger advantage seems to be a bit of a superiority complex rather than solid fact.

I'd love a chance to prove my theory but as has been said already, there aren't many games allowing cross platform play to do it.

o1s1n

DarkJager wrote: »

Nope those settings can be adjusted for a pad as well so it's also down to reaction speed. A **** player is a **** player regardless of what he is using. To think m +kb is without question the bigger advantage seems to be a bit of a superiority complex rather than solid fact.

I'd love a chance to prove my theory but as has been said already, there aren't many games allowing cross platform play to do it.

Think of it this way. With a keyboard and mouse, you're inputting with multiple fingers on your left hand. You're then using multiple fingers with your right hand too, while using your right arm and wrist to move the mouse around.

With a control pad you're pretty much just using your thumbs your index fingers.

To me it comes down to just that, with a keyboard and mouse you have more opportunity to control things..and will be faster are you're using more digits/arms etc to input commands.

Same thing with arcade games and comparing a pad to a stick.

Dustaz

DarkJager wrote: »

Nope those settings can be adjusted for a pad as well so it's also down to reaction speed. A **** player is a **** player regardless of what he is using. To think m +kb is without question the bigger advantage seems to be a bit of a superiority complex rather than solid fact.

It is a solid fact. When it comes to FPS games, It is a rock solid, irrefutible fact.

What you are saying equates to claiming that an escort will out perform a ferrari in a straight line.

Wossack

Anyone know if its possible to plug a 360 controller into a pc and play COD (etc) online with it?

Dustaz

Helix wrote: »

theyre not better, they just have more suitable tools for the task at hand

This is interesting. Following this line of reasoning, would it not be fair to say that because they chose the correct and superior tools for the task, this makes them better?

super_furry

DarkJager wrote: »

Nope those settings can be adjusted for a pad as well so it's also down to reaction speed. A **** player is a **** player regardless of what he is using. To think m +kb is without question the bigger advantage seems to be a bit of a superiority complex rather than solid fact.

You're still restricted by using thumbsticks. It doesn't matter how sensitive you make them, they have roughly a 6 centimetre range of movement in all direction. Compared that to a mouse which is pretty much limitless and also lets you tweak the sensitivity.

To think that gamers are naturally more talented or skillful because they use a particular platform is daft.

Wossack wrote: »

Anyone know if its possible to plug a 360 controller into a pc and play COD (etc) online with it?

Yep, quite easily but no-one does it for FPS because they'd be deliberately handicapping themselves.

Auvers

Dustaz wrote: »

It is a solid fact. When it comes to FPS games, It is a rock solid, irrefutible fact.

I was just about to post something similar, afraid to say you are deluded on this matter Dark


simple test on youtube

ShadowHearth

Tallon wrote: »

I am not trolling, if you have a problem with my post, report it.

This is the second time you have brought this up in this thread, so drop it

in all fairness i was not accusing you of trolling Tal. first one was messing around and a joke... second one was more on your side as it wasnt trolling, but whatever bud...

Hercule

I swear this argument discussion is doomed to repeat itself periodically every few months - can we not learn from the lessons of the past?

my post on this from another forum (like 5 years ago):

I sit firmly on the PC side of this discussion now but before I got into PC gaming I was a big console gamer (previous generation). Any gamer that believes they can emulate the movements of even a mid-level quake or UT player using a controller is simply deluded - humans are simply not dextrous enough to match the level of control that a m+kb offers in the form of a dual analogue controller. (even after years of practice using an unnecessarily handicapped method of control I don't believe they could match the mouse+kb)

A large portion of the discussions here and other forums seem to focus around the call of duty series as a "multiplatform neutral standard" to judge which control method is better and why - This game is a bad benchmark since the game (at least for the last few iterations) is designed to be played on Xbox/consoles - in MW2 and black ops you would be forgiven for thinking a frag video from consoles shows PC gameplay and vica-versa (if it weren't for obvious telltale signs) - the difference in control schemes is marginalised by bigger hitboxes/auto-aim/slower movement/bigger bullets/less recoil on both console and PC versions of the game.

The aforementioned quake series or UT games are a testament to the massive gap in performance when the two methods are compared - and as mentioned before this is a irrefutable fact

Dave_The_Sheep

Dustaz wrote: »

This is interesting. Following this line of reasoning, would it not be fair to say that because they chose the correct and superior tools for the task, this makes them better?

I was going to say something similar. The keyboard and mouse are far superior tools compared to an Xbox controller, for example, when it comes to FPS. Similarly, someone playing WoW using a keyboard stocked with macro keys within easy reach, etc is odds on better at the game than someone who uses a bog standard keyboard and with less buttons which are harder to access quickly.

I'd go so far as to say that in FPS games, using a keyboard and mouse against a console controller would be almost an illegal advantage, much like having Jonah Lomu in your U-12 rugby team. You might as well be playing different games.

And then I thought, given the disparity in the two, you practically are playing different games. So much so, that it's completely unfair to compare the two in a competitive sense.

Cuddlesworth

DarkJager wrote: »

Nope those settings can be adjusted for a pad as well so it's also down to reaction speed. A **** player is a **** player regardless of what he is using. To think m +kb is without question the bigger advantage seems to be a bit of a superiority complex rather than solid fact.

I'd love a chance to prove my theory but as has been said already, there aren't many games allowing cross platform play to do it.

When I was playing towards the upper level of skill on Counter Strike it was not uncommon to twitch shot. This involved moving the cursor across the screen and hitting a headshot within a split second. Faster then the eye can see or the screen could register. And that was on the lower end of what a appropriate use of the mouse and keyboard could do. Quake and Unreal games would have put me to shame at that time.

You should try one of the mouse and keyboard converters for the xbox/ps3 to have a rough feel of how easy it is to play a fps against console controllers. And they are still gimped versions of the actual proper setup.

mrm

Tallon wrote: »

Title changed, I wasn't the one who said 'PC gamers were better'

I was merely quoting the article

Well it is Your title, and nowhere in the article is it explicitly stated that 'PC gamers were better' players. So it is either trolling or a necessity for a revised title of 'PC gamers struggle to fully comprehend article written in their native language'.:D

It is unquestionable that the PC controls vs console controls will always end in a favourable result for the PC player, no matter what skill difference exists between the players (within reason- no grandma vs professional gamer scenarios). What is strange here is that Microsoft partook in this test, and appeared to dislike the result so much that they didn't proceed with the project (according to the PC person quoted in the article). What were they expecting and to what purpose? A little deluded they are methinks! Maybe the accurate title is 'console companies are more stupider than PC companies'.

On a side note, by the time I had finished my second runthrough of Crysis 2 on a console (I did so by putting the game in and playing it) the PC gamers on the Boards thread were still playing about with the settings and arguing/ discussing DX9 vs 10 vs 11 and rabbiting on about the first game and boasting about their rig at the time. Have any of you PC'ers actually started playing the second game yet?:rolleyes:

Hercule

On a side note, by the time I had finished my second runthrough of Crysis 2 on a console (I did so by putting the game in and playing it) the PC gamers on the Boards thread were still playing about with the settings and arguing/ discussing DX9 vs 10 vs 11 and rabbiting on about the first game and boasting about their rig at the time. Have any of you PC'ers actually started playing the second game yet?

theres a bit of unnecessary venom in this post - not all PC gamers are all elitist douchebags - its the equivalent of PC gamers assuming all console gamers are all casual game playing kids, the waffle about DX levels was something EA/Crytek did to convince PC gamers that what they were buying was made with them in mind (when it blatently wasn't). Besides Crysis 2 runs great on most current gen PCs,Is easy to setup too (very restrictive options) - its just a pity the game is a dull, remarkably linear shoi (with nice graphics)

Dustaz

super_furry wrote: »

To think that gamers are naturally more talented or skillful because they use a particular platform is daft.
.

Would it not be logical to suggest that the more talented and skillful gamers are drawn towards the medium that allows them to fully utilise their talent and skill?

Not trolling, just interested in opinons.

Overheal

On a side note, by the time I had finished my second runthrough of Crysis 2 on a console (I did so by putting the game in and playing it) the PC gamers on the Boards thread were still playing about with the settings and arguing/ discussing DX9 vs 10 vs 11 and rabbiting on about the first game and boasting about their rig at the time. Have any of you PC'ers actually started playing the second game yet?

I was interested in Crysis 2 for Crytek 3 Engine, and it's DX11 Rendering. I really wasn't in it for the gameplay. Incidentally I just overclocked my rig and to celebrate I started playing Simcity 4.

Dustaz wrote: »

Would it not be logical to suggest that the more talented and skillful gamers are drawn towards the medium that allows them to fully utilise their talent and skill?

No

super_furry

Dustaz wrote: »

Would it not be logical to suggest that the more talented and skillful gamers are drawn towards the medium that allows them to fully utilise their talent and skill?

I don't know if I'd put it that was. However a point could be made that because PC gaming has a higher entry barrier that console gaming - in both cost and technical knowledge needed - only the more dedicated gamers persevere.

Funky

Dustaz wrote: »

Would it not be logical to suggest that the more talented and skillful gamers are drawn towards the medium that allows them to fully utilise their talent and skill?

Not trolling, just interested in opinons.

Well given that the skill cap in PC gaming is so much higher than it is on consoles, it only makes sense that PC gamers are in general 'better gamers' in my opinion. Better tools allow for better understanding and the possibility to push the game to limits that mightn't have been expected.

As far as natural talent goes though, I dunno. It's a pretty impossible debate to have without a proper cross platform game to make a comparison with(with equal controls and community numbers).

Overheal

super_furry wrote: »

I don't know if I'd put it that was. However a point could be made that because PC gaming has a higher entry barrier that console gaming - in both cost and technical knowledge needed - only the more dedicated gamers persevere.

Not really.

Assuming you already own a Desktop that has been purchased in the last few years. and you didn't buy junk: so you at least have 2GB of Ram, a Dual Core processor of at least 2.0 Ghz, and an IGP. All thats required is to upgrade the power supply (50 euro) and a graphics card (80-150 euro).

Non-PC Gamers assume that you *have* to have a Quad+ core with 3.0ghz speeds, 6GB of Ram and a 200 euro graphics card. Thats simply not true. To get maximum specs on the latest of games (BF3 etc) then sure. But those specs far, far exceed the output of any of the consoles, and they aren't necessary if you are just interested in playing some games. I mean if you just want to start playing Sims 3 you can get your PC working it for under a hundred. Same goes for call of Duty if you don't mind that your graphics settings say "Low" or "Poor" in places - even though in reality thats what it would say on a console too if you were allowed to access the graphics menu.

Thats not a bash on consoles, thats a statement of fact that you've purchased a 250 euro PC essentially. You get what you pay for. Processor, Ram, Graphics, Hard Drive, Motherboard, Power Supply, Disc Drive, Game controller, etc.

Grumpypants

I'm surprised PC gamers have a chance to play any games at all in-between all the time they spend telling us how great they are.

Overheal

Grumpypants wrote: »

I'm surprised PC gamers have a chance to play any games at all in-between all the time they spend telling us how great they are.

We type faster. Who knew?

Technically speaking I could play TF2 and post on Boards between respawns, thank you steam browser!

CORaven

It is a pity they dropped this as there are more genres than just shooters.
I would have liked to have the option of playing some racing or beat-em-ups against some PC friends. Even a RTS could potentially work on a console and be on near equal level to a PC player [tweak a Halo Wars/C&C3:KW hybrid style control system].