Microsoft says: "PC gamers are better than console gamers"

Retr0gamer · 09-08-2011 1:17am

It is a bit stupid that there isn't a keyboard and mouse option in games but the gulf in how good the kb + m is over the joypad would mean that the few that go for kb + m would have a seriously massive advantage over the noobpad users. The majority of users will be using a gamepad and would make games way more unbalanced. IIRC Unreal tournament on the PS3 supported keyboard and mouse, so it's doable and easily implemented.

Helix · 09-08-2011 2:16am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It is a bit stupid that there isn't a keyboard and mouse option in games but the gulf in how good the kb + m is over the joypad would mean that the few that go for kb + m would have a seriously massive advantage over the noobpad users. The majority of users will be using a gamepad and would make games way more unbalanced. IIRC Unreal tournament on the PS3 supported keyboard and mouse, so it's doable and easily implemented.

surely there could be some way of detecting who's using what and keeping them apart though

AlmightyCushion · 09-08-2011 2:22am

Helix wrote: »

surely there could be some way of detecting who's using what and keeping them apart though

Kinda defeats the purpose a little.

Helix · 09-08-2011 2:44am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Kinda defeats the purpose a little.

what purpose? using a keyboard and mouse to get loads of kills against people with joypads? surely if you wanna use keyboard and mouse you'd wanna be playing against other people using them too?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 09-08-2011 11:07am

well the numbers using a kb/mouse on a console could be very low, so the multiplayer experience for those players could suffer.. could be like assasins creed multiplayer.. having to wait ten minutes to get a game, and then half the players dropping out after a few minutes when they're not immediately winning

Helix · 09-08-2011 12:44pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well the numbers using a kb/mouse on a console could be very low, so the multiplayer experience for those players could suffer.. could be like assasins creed multiplayer.. having to wait ten minutes to get a game, and then half the players dropping out after a few minutes when they're not immediately winning

that would just point to the fact that console gamers dont want to use a kb/m combo then

Dustaz · 09-08-2011 12:52pm

Overheal wrote: »

No

Would you like to expand on that?

Funky wrote: »

Well given that the skill cap in PC gaming is so much higher than it is on consoles, it only makes sense that PC gamers are in general 'better gamers' in my opinion. Better tools allow for better understanding and the possibility to push the game to limits that mightn't have been expected.

As far as natural talent goes though, I dunno. It's a pretty impossible debate to have without a proper cross platform game to make a comparison with(with equal controls and community numbers).

Well, you can only judge whats in front of you. People dont say that the best three footballers who have ever lived are Pele, Maradonna and that guy who played down in fairview park but didnt fancy playing in a team. So the natural talent thing can't be judged unless by competition and barring the somewhat contrived mlg halo stuff, all "major league" gaming competition exists almost exclusively for pcs.

Helix wrote: »

that would just point to the fact that console gamers dont want to use a kb/m combo then

Why would they not want to use something that improves the experience?

Helix · 09-08-2011 1:06pm

Dustaz wrote: »

Why would they not want to use something that improves the experience?

i was responding to the poster who said that the uptake on kb/m based console gaming could be low. if it was low, it would mean they didnt want it. if it wasnt low, it would mean they did

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 09-08-2011 1:23pm

everyone I know in RL with a console sees themselves as gamers, but they dont neccesarily want the "best experience". They just want to lie back on the couch, relax and have fun.
I can understand where they are coming from, while i'm sitting at my desk with a kb/mouse playing skyrim for five million hours they are going to be relaxing on a comfortable couch with a joypad in hand but my game's gona look better and I'll be able to control the game better (hopefully anyway, providing the interface wasn't completely gimped for consoles).
They also buy games to play together.. just about any old ****e just so they can go on xbox live and play it together and they don't understand why I won't. Horses for courses.

hooradiation · 09-08-2011 1:28pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

everyone I know in RL with a console sees themselves as gamers, but they dont neccesarily want the "best experience". They just want to lie back on the couch, relax and have fun.
I can understand where they are coming from, while i'm sitting at my desk with a kb/mouse playing skyrim for five million hours they are going to be relaxing on a comfortable couch with a joypad in hand but my game's gona look better and I'll be able to control the game better (hopefully anyway, providing the interface wasn't completely gimped for consoles).
They also buy games to play together.. just about any old ****e just so they can go on xbox live and play it together and they don't understand why I won't. Horses for courses.

No, they do. It's just that for them the best experience isn't provided by a PC.
Shocking, i know.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 09-08-2011 1:37pm

no they want the most relaxing enjoyable experience, the best experience isn't a subjective thing.. for rts/fps etc it's having the best control in the game to play the game to the best of your ability. consoles do not offer that for rts/fps, and while they do for sports/racing games.. you can easily get a cheap controller for pc to mimic that.. and have the superior graphics/performance of a pc.

Helix · 09-08-2011 1:39pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

no they want the most relaxing enjoyable experience, the best experience isn't a subjective thing

of course "best experience" is subjective

they want to sit on a comfy couch playing a game with a joypad. that, for them, is the best experience

if they thought that playing games on pc with keyboard and mouse was the best experience, they'd be doing that

you're mistaking "best experience" with "best performance", yet they're two completely different things

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 09-08-2011 1:46pm

well i guess that's the difference between casual and hardcore gamers

jill_valentine · 09-08-2011 2:13pm

I know that Keyboard + Mouse is ideal in terms of accuracy etc, but from gameplay standpoint I can't stand it for anything but top down perspective games.

I know, rationally, that I'll get better scores and what have you playing K+M, I just prefer playing with a pad from a purely tactile point of view.

super_furry · 09-08-2011 2:23pm

I have a gaming laptop - a pretty beefy one that can run Crysis at high settings. I have an Xbox and PS3, along with a Wii that's gathering dust and a PSP that seems to be getting more game time than anything else right now.

Anyway, when I'm buying a multi-format game - I'll nearly always get the Xbox version. Most of my mates play on the Xbox so it means I get the play with and against then. I prefer lounging back on my sofa with a controller in my hands and playing on a 50 inch screen rather than being hunched over my PC monitor. Don't get me wrong, I still use my PC for games like TF2, Rift and some of the better indie games (Mount and Blade how I love you), but given the choice I'd rather be playing on my Xbox.

It's less hassle - they're no installing, searching for patches, updating drivers or constant Direct X instal loops. I buy a game, turn on the console and play it. I bought Battlefield 2 over Christmas on Steam due to the sale and still can't get it work thanks to a combination of Punkbuster, Gamespy, the game not liking Vista and god knows what else.

Dustaz · 09-08-2011 2:54pm

Helix wrote: »

of course "best experience" is subjective

they want to sit on a comfy couch playing a game with a joypad. that, for them, is the best experience

if they thought that playing games on pc with keyboard and mouse was the best experience, they'd be doing that

you're mistaking "best experience" with "best performance", yet they're two completely different things

Good point well made but the thread refers to whether pc gamers are "better" at games than console gamers. Nothing here seems to refute that point.

hooradiation · 09-08-2011 2:55pm

Helix wrote: »

of course "best experience" is subjective

This. A thousand times this.

The sooner people realise this the sooner we can stop having horrible threads that devolve into PC Vs Console pissing matches.
Or it's cancerous cousin the "casual" V "hardcore" circlejerk.

Accepting this will make you a better person, is what I'm getting at here.

noodler · 09-08-2011 2:55pm

I concede the tactical advantage for the various benefits of a controller:

1) My fingers and arms go numb after an extended session with KB&M compared to resting a controller in my hands

2) I can sit on a chair/couch/bed and relax whilst playing rather than be hunched on an uncomfortable computer chair I spend m working day on anyway

3) I can use a TV and I can be quite a distance away rather than be right up at the monitor (work again). Sure, some people will use big TVs for their PC but I don't know how they get the KB&M combo to work the way they want doing this (not sitting at a desk)

Dustaz · 09-08-2011 2:56pm

super_furry wrote: »

It's less hassle - they're no installing, searching for patches, updating drivers or constant Direct X instal loops. I buy a game, turn on the console and play it. I bought Battlefield 2 over Christmas on Steam due to the sale and still can't get it work thanks to a combination of Punkbuster, the game not liking Vista and god knows what else.

This is always a recurring theme with these sorts of threads and it honestly baffles me. The last 6 or 7 games Ive bought, Ive simply installed (direct from steam or some other online source usually) and played. ok, it takes a bit longer to install than sticking in a cd, but i cant remember the last time i had to update drivers or anything like that. Mind you i more or less exclusively play online games so theyre probably simpler affairs than the flavor of the month crysis-alike borefests.

Retr0gamer · 09-08-2011 3:03pm

I went to play Catherine last night on the PS3. I couldn't sign into PSN because I couldn't update my PS3 since the PS3 doesn't like like it when I've other machines using the same net connection and also had to sit through a 20 minute 2.5 GB install before I could play it. I'm pretty sure if I had been on PSN I would have had the joy of applying a patch that took 20 minutes to download and install as well. Consoles aren't much better in this regard.

Helix · 09-08-2011 3:04pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well i guess that's the difference between casual and hardcore gamers

i cringe when anyone calls themselves a hardcore gamer

its a f*ckin hobby lads

christ almighty its my JOB to play video games and i dont get as antsy about this crap as some

pcs = theyre good to play games on
consoles = theyre good to play games on
good games = theyre good no matter what platform
bad games = theyre bad no matter what platform
people who are a good at games = who cares once theyre having fun
people who are bad at games = who cares once theyre having fun

super_furry · 09-08-2011 3:08pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I went to play Catherine last night on the PS3. I couldn't sign into PSN because I couldn't update my PS3 since the PS3 doesn't like like it when I've other machines using the same net connection and also had to sit through a 20 minute 2.5 GB install before I could play it. I'm pretty sure if I had been on PSN I would have had the joy of applying a patch that took 20 minutes to download and install as well. Consoles aren't much better in this regard.

The Xbox is, the PS3 isn't. I'm rarely left waiting for more than 30 seconds when the 360 wants to update a game, when it comes to the PS3 it can be anything up to 30 minutes.

Kiith · 09-08-2011 3:13pm

Dustaz wrote: »

This is always a recurring theme with these sorts of threads and it honestly baffles me. The last 6 or 7 games Ive bought, Ive simply installed (direct from steam or some other online source usually) and played. ok, it takes a bit longer to install than sticking in a cd, but i cant remember the last time i had to update drivers or anything like that. Mind you i more or less exclusively play online games so theyre probably simpler affairs than the flavor of the month crysis-alike borefests.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I went to play Catherine last night on the PS3. I couldn't sign into PSN because I couldn't update my PS3 since the PS3 doesn't like like it when I've other machines using the same net connection and also had to sit through a 20 minute 2.5 GB install before I could play it. I'm pretty sure if I had been on PSN I would have had the joy of applying a patch that took 20 minutes to download and install as well. Consoles aren't much better in this regard.

I hate that people still think it's soo hard to play pc games. Once you have a decent pc, pretty much every game can be played by clicking Next 5 or 6 times. Oh god, that's difficult!

Yes issues can happen, but the vast majority of games will work on a decent system, without much, or even any, ****ing about in the settings. Hell, it's even easier with digital distribution as you don't even have to leave the house.

noodler · 09-08-2011 3:15pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I went to play Catherine last night on the PS3. I couldn't sign into PSN because I couldn't update my PS3 since the PS3 doesn't like like it when I've other machines using the same net connection and also had to sit through a 20 minute 2.5 GB install before I could play it. I'm pretty sure if I had been on PSN I would have had the joy of applying a patch that took 20 minutes to download and install as well. Consoles aren't much better in this regard.

I have missed something here:

You couldn't update your PS3 with a patch - fair enough. But why would this have anything to do with how long it takes to install the game?

Headshot · 09-08-2011 3:16pm

Im surprised that there isnt a pc gaming forum. You'd think we'd have one because we are the best of the best

jill_valentine · 09-08-2011 3:17pm

PS3 patches and installations are indeed miserable affairs. Xbox is grand, so long as your connection is decent. Both have caused me less unnecessary face-aching spec faffing than PC.

God help us all if Microsoft have the most user friendly experience, incidentally.

Retr0gamer · 09-08-2011 3:35pm

noodler wrote: »

I have missed something here:

You couldn't update your PS3 with a patch - fair enough. But why would this have anything to do with how long it takes to install the game?

I'm just commenting on how setting up your console to work on a network is far from a plug and play affair.

noodler · 09-08-2011 3:43pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm just commenting on how setting up your console to work on a network is far from a plug and play affair.

Apologies, I missed the crucial use of the word "also" in your post.

Agreed though - getting sick of these have finished games requiring updates from the get-go.

Retr0gamer · 09-08-2011 3:51pm

Slightly off topic but I think consoles are becoming more and more like PCs. You no longer just shove a cartridge in to play a game. Consoles have additional features that were normally exclusive to PCs and also there's a certain amount of technical know how required to getting online. If it gets more complicated than streamlined next generation I can see it becoming a barrier to entry for some people.

Overheal · 09-08-2011 4:00pm

Dustaz wrote:

Would you like to expand on that?

Dustaz wrote: »

Would it not be logical to suggest that the more talented and skillful gamers are drawn towards the medium that allows them to fully utilise their talent and skill?

Not trolling, just interested in opinons.

Sure!

Microsoft says: "PC gamers are better than console gamers"

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