Gardai should be armed?

Heckler

As a licenced firearms holder I gotta say the ignorance regarding irish law on firearms control in this thread is a bit frightening.

Granted if you don't shoot theres no reason why you should know what the law is but some of the opinions..........

Yes. You can legally own a handgun in Ireland. Although at the moment a rimfire .22 is the most you'll get.

No. You are not entitled to own a handgun (or any firearm for that matter) for the purpose of self-defence.

mattjack

nobody move or I,ll shoot..don,t say nothing either

irishgirl19

In one frame of mind I am thinking yes definately,the drug lords they have to deal with have an advantage with weapons and the junkies who come at garda with syringes wouldn't do it if they had a gun.
But there is the risk that some garda will abuse there power.

charlemont

They have guns alright, Several years back in the late 90's a few of us were having a session at a mates house and at 8 the morning I woke up with Guards in the bedroom with guns, Seems my mates nephew had been involved in something and they wanted him but the funny part was I was in the bed with him and two women !! Great session though..

Another time roughly 6 months later, I was drinking cans with my girlfriend and friend at the end of a street and we spotted an unmarked car coming opposite up the 1 way street, And a second car appeared at the crossroads, They pulled out guns and had me against the wall while another Guard had a look around the place, They searched us and then put the guns back into the boot of the unmarked car and explained a nearby off-license was robbed, In fairness they knew pretty quickly we had nothing to do with it..

mattjack

Heckler wrote: »

As a licenced firearms holder I gotta say the ignorance regarding irish law on firearms control in this thread is a bit frightening.

Granted if you don't shoot theres no reason why you should know what the law is but some of the opinions..........

Yes. You can legally own a handgun in Ireland. Although at the moment a rimfire .22 is the most you'll get.

No. You are not entitled to own a handgun (or any firearm for that matter) for the purpose of self-defence.

what ignorance..?..on one or two occasions in the past private Irish citizens were issued with handguns for personal protection..the one person I know of was a northern politician who looked for election here as the president.

LighterGuy

I thought about this before and one of the reasons I can only think of to as why they dont carry guns is because of the initial problems...

Lets take the states. Law enforcement has been carrying weapons for over 100 years. Sheriffs in the western times and all that ...

But think about it, you equip joe-gardai with a weapon. Theres bound to be a few "mistakes" (for a lighter word) happening initially.

angelfire9

realies wrote: »

There are already many armed garda units.

I don't know about arming all the garda maybe the use of tasers guns is the way to go,We wouldn't want another situation like the one that happened in longford a few years ago,(forget the name)

The incident you are referring to is Abbeylara I presume?
The one where the ERU the most highly trained gardai in the country were involved?
My opinion on Abbeylara is not a popular one I'm afraid :rolleyes:
You shoot at Gardai you deserve everything you get

And I say that as the daughter of a retired cop & wife of a serving member

Solnskaya wrote: »

Personally, I've a firearms licence(so I can't be a complete nutter, apparently), and I like having a gun. It's a nice fall back. So maybe the cops here should be armed, if only because all the health and safety/training courses they would have to attend would mean they had less time available to hassle me about car tax and tyres etc.

Generally speaking the ones that "hassle you" about car tax & tyres etc are traffic corps who don't in the general run of things deal with armed robbers etc so even if the Gardai were armed the TC would still be out checking for tax, insurance, NCT & bald tyres! That (and speeding and other Road Traffic offences) is what they are there for :rolleyes:

In answer to the OP personally I don't think Gardai should be armed
At the moment a certain type of scumbag in Ireland is armed (the Martin Cahill/Dessie Dundon type)
If the smaller scum (those on a smaller scale not those vertically challenged) knew that Gardai were armed en masse then they would start arming themselves as standard and the levels of gun crime would sky rocket IMHO

Tasers would be my preferred option
Both the extendable batons & the pepper spray that members are currently armed with require the Garda to be fairly up close & personal with the scum before using the baton or the spray
Tasers shoot 15 feet

vampire of kilmainham

LC2010HIS wrote: »

Yeah Audrey, exactly! I want to join when they recruit again (and after I attend college) and to be honest, the more I imagine myself in their shoes, the more unsafe I'd feel up against certain situations.

I'm not saying, they should pull a gun on a petty thief in a supermarket but like, if others were about to be harmed by someone or if Gardai were about to be attacked etc etc

And even at that, shooting would be a last resort?

To be honest, I was very surprised the political visits went off without incident because If I was a criminal, "unarmed police force" would be cake?

there are special units that are armed like the ERU and all detectives and plain clothes officers on crime prevention are as well if the uniform gardai were to be armed it would require a lot of wepons training and cost a fortune..

vampire of kilmainham

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

As far as I am aware most garda stations have a gun press and also have specially trained (usually detectives) to use them if needs be.

detectives carry guns all of the time usually in a side holster cliped unto a belt they carry a sig saur 9mll automatic pistol google the armed units and you will see the variety of wepons used

vampire of kilmainham

realies wrote: »

There are already many armed garda units.

I don't know about arming all the garda maybe the use of tasers guns is the way to go,We wouldn't want another situation like the one that happened in longford a few years ago,(forget the name)

abbeylara was the place and the gardai were right to shoot him he was coming at them with a loaded shotgun they did warn him first

vampire of kilmainham

Chief--- wrote: »

About a quarter of them are armed.

You just will never see their guns. They keep them covered and are in plain clothes.

Unless they are on jobs


Armed response units all over the country too with the ERU based in Dublin.

I do think motorcyclists should be armed though, they work alone and can be first at scene due to their speed and ability to get through traffic fast.

they dont allways keep the guns conceled iv seen severel gardai maybe just in jeans and a top especially in hot weather and their side arm is clearley visible only seen a women cop in my local garage last nite and she had her gun clearly visible the holster cliped to her jeans

vampire of kilmainham

thecornflake wrote: »

They're too quiet. Gun or no gun any cop in the states will demand respect. They just don't have the right attitude. Perhaps they should try being more aggressive (not hitting people) , shout, don't take crap, make an example of people.

If someone does something wrong no matter how small they should be flagged for it and told what they did was wrong.

Cops in the states take "J walking" very seriously and make an example of you if you do it, compare this to a guard I saw a few years back. A man crossed Eden quay without a green man and with a guard directing traffic. She shouted at the man who was in a suit and he just ignored her and walked straight past her.She then turned around as he was walking past her and infront of everyone she did a weird dance/tantrum move like a child, rolled her eyes up to heaven and continued on.

I couldn't take her seriously. Could you ?

:D:D:D:D:D

vampire of kilmainham

Fremen wrote: »

To come up with a sensible answer to that question, you first need to ask "How often does a Garda find himself in a situation where he actively needs a gun?".

I would say very rarely. Gardai would usually arrive at the scene of a serious crime after it has taken place, rather than witnessing it occuring. Their job is to track criminals down, rather than catch them in the act.

Most rank-and-file gardai wouldn't see much more than a standard public order offence anyway. In the worst case, they might take a smack or two, but that's nothing a baton couldn't take care of, and the law is heavily on their side.

On those grounds, I'd say the risks outweigh the benefits.

uniform gardai arrive to many situations where the act is taking place when they get there often some very vicious stuff and their job is to catch them in the act as well and they often do.

vampire of kilmainham

easygoing39 wrote: »

Nope,our guards have trouble keeping a simply yoke like a mondeo on the straight and narrow,give them a gun and there will be dead citizens all over the country.Just look at how the guards battered innocent people on the may day parade a few years ago,now think off all the dead people that would have littered dublin city center if these thick rambo cops had of hand guns!!! It would have of been like Tiananmen Square for God's sake.

i seen plenty of armed detectives at that parade and nobody got shot but a lot of gardai acted like thugs that day toooo

vampire of kilmainham

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

so its alright to shoot an animal so long as you dont use a bow or crossbow? where the hell is the sense in that god this country is so turned around its not even funny,

on gardai with guns, one part of me is saying yes they should have them, i see gardai abused an awful lot where im from, people just dont fear or respect them on the other hand there are some really stupid gardai around, remember that protest a year or so ago by students at some government building? ended with the students getting beaten up for no damn reason

police in other countries are not respected either and the uniform cops are armed it makes no difference

sollisb

The problem is not one of 'trusting' the Gardai but one of our economic climates and judicial system.

They trust 19 yr old soldiers with a lot more armament than the guards have..

We have no jobs in which to employ people, we have no outlet for teenage testosterone, so what's left but to walk the streets, get into trouble or meet up with even more dangerous types. Leading to mass court appearances with no room in which to segregate the 'good going bad' from the 'bad going evil'.

No decent jobs, no decent judicial system, no decent government....

Armed Gardai won't change a thing but invite the scum to take pot-shots.

Just my ever decreasing 5 cents worth.

vampire of kilmainham

Blay wrote: »

A lot of hunters uses moderators to control the sound of their rifle, bow hunting would probably be seen as inhumane as the animal may not die straightaway, a rifle can sometimes wound an animal and they can walk for a few yards before dying, arrows would leave more of a margin for error. Hunters consider the animal first before how much of a challenge it is, they try to kill animals cleanly and not leave them lingering.[/QUO
its iligal to use a supressor to silence a wepon in this country..

Solnskaya

sollisb wrote: »

They trust 19 yr old soldiers with a lot more armament than the guards have..

.

but they then have the good sense to keep them somwhere safe, like in a barracks, or Africa, or the Leb. They don't like having them wandering around the streets(unless there's big money involved-ie the money train)

It wasn't me!

vampire of kilmainham wrote: »

its iligal to use a supressor to silence a wepon in this country..

No, it's not. It requires a notation on the certificate for the firearm in question, but it is absolutely not illegal.

Italia

I was a police officer for almost 22yrs (I'm not Irish). Started off on the beat and had stints in various units including SWAT, before I got promoted to Senior Superintendent.
I worked in what is probably the murder capital of the world, where violence is a daily occurrence and life is really cheap (should be fairly easy to figure out the place). My standard issue weapon was a Beretta SB92 9mm parabellum and in the patrol car I carried a Galil MAR rifle.

My experience has been that the vast majority of situations can be resolved without the use of firearms. Most situations I resolved simply by talking. Where that didn't work, my baton and a can of CS resolved the rest.

Apart from some very specific instances (eg: bank robberies & hostage taking), during my service, I've only ever had to draw and use my firearm 2 times.
If you draw your weapon, you MUST be prepared to use it and you MUST be prepared to take the other person's life. If in any doubt, leave the damn thing in its holster.
If you draw it and hesitate, you either make a bad situation REALLY REALLY bad or you land up dead.

Just to dispel some myths -
No one runs around after the baddies firearm drawn like in the movies. Its a potential receipe for disaster.
The average firefight lasts somewhere between 2 and 5 seconds. It is rare for it to last any longer. Shootouts like in the movies are exceptionally rare.

So, back to the OP's question - should Gardai have firearms? IMHO - yes, but they're not for everyone.
Some people are just not psychologically suited to carry one. That is where proper psych and stress evaluations need to take place at academy level. A person can be an excellent police officer but really dangerous when issued with a firearm...

Paparazzo

Italia wrote: »

I was a police officer for almost 22yrs (I'm not Irish). Started off on the beat and had stints in various units including SWAT, before I got promoted to Senior Superintendent.
I worked in what is probably the murder capital of the world, where violence is a daily occurrence and life is really cheap (should be fairly easy to figure out the place). My standard issue weapon was a Beretta SB92 9mm parabellum and in the patrol car I carried a Galil MAR rifle.

My experience has been that the vast majority of situations can be resolved without the use of firearms. Most situations I resolved simply by talking. Where that didn't work, my baton and a can of CS resolved the rest.

Apart from some very specific instances (eg: bank robberies & hostage taking), during my service, I've only ever had to draw and use my firearm 2 times.
If you draw your weapon, you MUST be prepared to use it and you MUST be prepared to take the other person's life. If in any doubt, leave the damn thing in its holster.
If you draw it and hesitate, you either make a bad situation REALLY REALLY bad or you land up dead.

Just to dispel some myths -
No one runs around after the baddies firearm drawn like in the movies. Its a potential receipe for disaster.
The average firefight lasts somewhere between 2 and 5 seconds. It is rare for it to last any longer. Shootouts like in the movies are exceptionally rare.

So, back to the OP's question - should Gardai have firearms? IMHO - yes, but they're not for everyone.
Some people are just not psychologically suited to carry one. That is where proper psych and stress evaluations need to take place at academy level. A person can be an excellent police officer but really dangerous when issued with a firearm...

Other "baddies" do! I was in amsterdam one time and there was a shooting. Some guy ran around a corner, another guy after him shooting at him. Actually, he may have stopped to shoot. Think it was 2 drug dealers or something.

Celly Smunt

arming the police force is arming every single citizen in Ireland

arybvtcw0eolkf

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

lol, no they should not be armed, I wouldnt trust the average garda with a gun.

Do you trust members of the defence forces with guns?.

Members of the DF are routinely armed and on our streets, and our naval service police our coast lines and sea's with small arms (pistols, rifles and medium machineguns) to 40mm canon.

I don't see the difference tbh, the DF are not a special breed so what makes members of AGS different in your eyes?.

Witcher

vampire of kilmainham wrote: »

its iligal to use a supressor to silence a wepon in this country..

Nice knowledge of the firearms laws:rolleyes:

Italia

Hogwash.
You have firearm control legislation. Why would arming the Gardai change anything?
Or are you saying that the Gardai are so incompetent that they would willingly lose or give away their weapons to anyone walking past?

pmcmahon wrote: »

arming the police force is arming every single citizen in Ireland

Italia

You took what I was saying completely out of context.:rolleyes:
Criminals are not (for the most part) trained nor have they any sort of scruples. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

Paparazzo wrote: »

Other "baddies" do! I was in amsterdam one time and there was a shooting. Some guy ran around a corner, another guy after him shooting at him. Actually, he may have stopped to shoot. Think it was 2 drug dealers or something.

Bosco boy

Most gardai do not want to carry a firearm, the regional support units that have been introduced are excellent and if they were increased it would be adaquate. Currently over 5000 gardai carry firearms and in the long run this wlll be reduced with mainly RSU left with firearms and highly trained. Considering there are 5000 out there with guns the theory they can't be trusted is lazy!

Mully_2011

No if the normal Gards where armed every little 15 year old scumbag would start buying up guns to "protect" themselves from the Gards the place would go ****ing mental.

Tasers would be a better job

daveharnett

LC2010HIS wrote: »

I'm not saying, they should pull a gun on a petty thief in a supermarket but like, if others were about to be harmed by someone or if Gardai were about to be attacked etc etc

And even at that, shooting would be a last resort?

Here's the thing: if you've got the gun on you, your options are limited by it.

That drunken muppet in templebar? Now instead of tackling him and sitting on him until the paddywagon arrives, you've got to taze him 20 times because he won't stay down and you can't risk getting into any kind of scuffle with a firearm on your belt.

Celly Smunt

Italia wrote: »

Hogwash.
You have firearm control legislation. Why would arming the Gardai change anything?
Or are you saying that the Gardai are so incompetent that they would willingly lose or give away their weapons to anyone walking past?

I have spent time working with the gardaí and have never met a single member who wishes to be armed,holding a gun is holding a weapon that could be used against you,opening firefights isn't policing.