The Walking Dead - Season 2 [AMC - US] *Spoilers*

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html

if anyone's too lazy


also, going back a bit.. but didnt rick set the barn on fire as a signal fire to the people in the house? a "we're here" sort of thing

MungBean

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html

if anyone's too lazy


also, going back a bit.. but didnt rick set the barn on fire as a signal fire to the people in the house? a "we're here" sort of thing

He had three guns though. His, Shane's and Carls. Surely he could have fired off a shot instead of setting fire to the building he was in ?

uncleoswald

Psychedelic wrote: »

Why did Rick open up the barn to the zombies and then set fire to them and the barn? He could've just pulled up the ladder and stayed up there.

I thought it was fairly obvious that he set the barn on fire in order to kill as many zombies as possible without wasting any ammo. Something that you then go on to criticise the show for, so they really can't win can they? At this stage he would still have been hoping to save the farm and he felt the horde would rip through the barn pretty quick and then the house. So lure them in and then burn them. I like his plan better then yours to be honest. What would they do once the ladder was up?

MungBean wrote: »

Would if the writers had of put a bit of effort into it instead of taking the lazy options. Could have had them surrounded and caught unaware so they had no choice but to fight their way out. Standing on the porch looking at hundreds of zombies coming towards you and deciding to go out and shoot as many as possible before legging it is just stupid. Ammo is their most important resource and was scarce anyway, they must have nothing now.

They should be put in situations where their actions are reasonable and makes good TV, not put themselves unreasonably into situations to make good TV.

It's very dark so they would not immediately know how many zombies there were, once it became apparent how hopeless it was they all wanted to scarper, except Herschel who found it hard to let go of his farm.

MungBean wrote: »

Like I said earlier a slow moving car would draw them off. I'd either try to lure them all off first or leg it and wait until they fcuked off.

I like that plan, but there were so many zombies that would have to start a fair bit away to make sure the car wouldn't be immediately overrun and a hell of a lot of zombies would have stayed at the house were there was more fresh meat. But I'm sure the survivors will begin to devise some plans like this in the future, I mean what is it? Only 8 weeks in?

faceman wrote: »

I did have an issue with the "Lori hates Rick for killing Shane" scene. There was a scene not too long ago where it was spelt out by her that she wanted Rick to kill Shane. Lady Macbeth style. It was disappointing to have her go rasher

When he told the group he killed Shane, Lori followed to support him, she only reacted once he said Carl shot zombie Shane. This scene was a disaster though I'll give you that.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

lol how would seeing all your favourite moments from the comic brought to screen be boring ,

Well the show isn't been made simply to satisfy fans of the comics. The only obligation they have is to make a good show that feels like the comic without been a slave to it.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

yes fair enough you can change stuff like adding Daryl to the mix or having shane survive longer (as they expanded story possibilities) but you don't substitute and you don't subtract from the source material.

Says who? Lot's of great things have come from changing the source material and lot's of faithful adaptations have fallen very flat because, although they get everything crammed in, they seem to lose the themes and feelings from the original material. I think TWD has done a fair job adapting to tv and it's budget constraints.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

I seriously doubt the Readers of GRRM's a song of Ice and fire series(Game of thrones) are finding hbo's faithful adaption boring.

There were changes in the show, not as many as TWD but some important ones to character motivations etc...

MungBean

uncleoswald wrote: »

It's very dark so they would not immediately know how many zombies there were, once it became apparent how hopeless it was they all wanted to scarper, except Herschel who found it hard to let go of his farm.

They could see what we seen and Darly even said a herd of that size would rip the house apart. So they knew they were dealing with a massive amount of zombies.

I like that plan, but there were so many zombies that would have to start a fair bit away to make sure the car wouldn't be immediately overrun and a hell of a lot of zombies would have stayed at the house were there was more fresh meat. But I'm sure the survivors will begin to devise some plans like this in the future, I mean what is it? Only 8 weeks in?

Well all of them would have to get in the cars, last one back draw the zombies by firing a few shots while the rest get to safety. Get them moving in the same direction at least. As it was they all drove off in different directions firing off rounds which was never going to help with their plan of trying to lure them away.

I dont understand how Rick had to hide in the barn either, he was between the zombies and the house and zombies are slow movers, when the others came out the zombies were still coming toward the house and Rick had locked himself in the Barn which has to be 30 seconds run from the house. Seeing as the rest came out when they heard the shot Rick would have been within eyesight and shouting distance of the rest of the group when he got to the barn. "Get the cars!!!" "OK!" *Vrrrrrooooommmmmmmmmmm* trouble avoided.

Psychedelic

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

also, going back a bit.. but didnt rick set the barn on fire as a signal fire to the people in the house? a "we're here" sort of thing

He could've just shouted over, or let off a gunshot? Maybe light a piece of wood or something to use a torch? No need to light up the whole barn.

uncleoswald wrote: »

I thought it was fairly obvious that he set the barn on fire in order to kill as many zombies as possible without wasting any ammo. Something that you then go on to criticise the show for, so they really can't win can they? At this stage he would still have been hoping to save the farm and he felt the horde would rip through the barn pretty quick and then the house. So lure them in and then burn them. I like his plan better then yours to be honest. What would they do once the ladder was up?

How many zombies did he kill, a dozen? Why not just keep the doors closed? I suppose the zombies would've just crumbled the barn door like dust though. Once the ladder was up they could wait for help (like the RV). By setting fire to the barn he would've had to get out of there pretty soon or else get burned alive. No fire and he could wait hours till daylight, wait for an opportunity to escape or rescue.

And sure when the RV came along he just climbed down outside the barn where all the zombies were in the first place!

Hygro

The exact lines spoken about how they were trying to cope with the herd coming towards them was as follows

Daryl - "I got the numbers, it's no use"
Herschel "You can go if you want"
Daryl - "You'll take them all on?"
Herschel - "We'll take them on, we've guns, we've cars"
Andrea - "We'll kill as many as we can and use the cars to lure the rest away from the farm"
Daryl - "are you serious?"
Herschel - This is my farm, I'll die here"
Daryl - "Alright, it's as good a night as any"

al28283

Psychedelic wrote: »

He could've just shouted over, or let off a gunshot? Maybe light a piece of wood or something to use a torch? No need to light up the whole barn.


How many zombies did he kill, a dozen? Why not just keep the doors closed? I suppose the zombies would've just crumbled the barn door like dust though. Once the ladder was up they could wait for help (like the RV). By setting fire to the barn he would've had to get out of there pretty soon or else get burned alive. No fire and he could wait hours till daylight, wait for an opportunity to escape or rescue.

And sure when the RV came along he just climbed down outside the barn where all the zombies were in the first place!

Did you watch it with the sound on? He said lighting the barn on fire would attract the zombies and lead them away from the house

Pepe LeFrits

But I suppose he is Sherlock Holmes...

Psychedelic

al28283 wrote: »

Did you watch it with the sound on? He said lighting the barn on fire would attract the zombies and lead them away from the house

Fair enough if that's what he said. That's still a pretty stupid idea though, and it didn't work because the zombies were all around the house anyway and weren't attracted to the barn on fire, especially with Herschel launching hundreds of shotgun blasts at them all.

How did all the zombies just appear between Rick and the barn/house by the way? One minute they are all approaching from one side, next minute there's hundreds of them in the area between where Rick killed Shane and the barn/house.

Ah I give up. Some people don't mind these things but it just does my head in.

PhiloCypher

batm!ke wrote: »

1) Fair point! The forum seems to criticise more than celebrate though unfortunately. The Walking Dead forum over in the Zombie Survival forum in Rec seems less negative altogether.

2) Nothing wrong with "favourite moments", I said a shot-by-shot remake.

1) Well I guess it's always been easier to tear something down then build them up , which is not to say the criticisms of this show are all pedantic and invalid just that it is sometimes easier to point out glaring flaws then to figure out what it is exactly you like about the show if anything. It is something I've no doubt been guilty of at one time or another , tho while I've likely been more critical of this show then others due to my familiarity with the source material I've not been without praise when the show has earned it in my eyes as in the pilot and more recently the bar standoff episodes .

I've just found the whole ' why watch it then' argument tiresome to the point that I'm seriously considering making a separate Walking dead thread for critical discussion if it comes up again.

2)Shot for shot no but character for character yes. If I was to list and spoiler tag all the cool moments from the comics that will likely never happen now due to premature deaths or because the characters haven't even been introduced there would be a wall of black below.

uncleoswald wrote: »

I thought it was fairly obvious that he set the barn on fire in order to kill as many zombies as possible without wasting any ammo. Something that you then go on to criticise the show for, so they really can't win can they? At this stage he would still have been hoping to save the farm and he felt the horde would rip through the barn pretty quick and then the house. So lure them in and then burn them. I like his plan better then yours to be honest. What would they do once the ladder was up?

Would fire even kill a zombie ? surely you're just turning them into movable incendiary devices.

Adolf Hipster

PhiloCypher wrote: »

batm!ke wrote: »

1) Fair point! The forum seems to criticise more than celebrate though unfortunately. The Walking Dead forum over in the Zombie Survival forum in Rec seems less negative altogether.

2) Nothing wrong with "favourite moments", I said a shot-by-shot remake.

1) Well I guess it's always been easier to tear something down then build them up , which is not to say the criticisms of this show are all pedantic and invalid just that it is sometimes easier to point out glaring flaws then to figure out what it is exactly you like about the show if anything. It is something I've no doubt been guilty of at one time or another , tho while I've likely been more critical of this show then others due to my familiarity with the source material I've not been without praise when the show has earned it in my eyes as in the pilot and more recently the bar standoff episodes .

I've just found the whole ' why watch it then' argument tiresome to the point that I'm seriously considering making a separate Walking dead thread for critical discussion if it comes up again.

2)Shot for shot no but character for character yes. If I was to list and spoiler tag all the cool moments from the comics that will likely never happen now due to premature deaths or because the characters haven't even been introduced there would be a wall of black below.

uncleoswald wrote: »

I thought it was fairly obvious that he set the barn on fire in order to kill as many zombies as possible without wasting any ammo. Something that you then go on to criticise the show for, so they really can't win can they? At this stage he would still have been hoping to save the farm and he felt the horde would rip through the barn pretty quick and then the house. So lure them in and then burn them. I like his plan better then yours to be honest. What would they do once the ladder was up?

Would fire even kill a zombie ? surely you're just turning them into movable incendiary devices.

Surely fire would eventually incinerate their muscles, zombie or not, no muscles means no movement.

uncleoswald

I think we have to remember that Zombie fiction doesn't really exist in their world, any zombie fan worth a damn will have gone over these scenarios a thousand times and think about things like their favourite weapons and where they would hide out etc... Rick and co. don't have that mythology to fall back on and are learning and making it up as they go. Anyway it's all well and good coming up with perfect ideas on paper but I'm pretty sure they would fall apart pretty quickly in the middle of a surprise Zombie attack in the middle of the night. Like with everyone saying they would use swords etc... and not their guns. I say in that position it would be too tempting to use a long range weapon and keep the diseased corpse away from you, once it is close enough to you to use an armed weapon things could go wrong rapidly, particularly if there is more then one.

I've panicked while playing paintball ffs, I'd be f*cking mess in a zombie apocalypse.

Psychedelic wrote: »

Once the ladder was up they could wait for help (like the RV). By setting fire to the barn he would've had to get out of there pretty soon or else get burned alive. No fire and he could wait hours till daylight, wait for an opportunity to escape or rescue.

Psychedelic wrote: »

Fair enough if that's what he said. That's still a pretty stupid idea though, and it didn't work because the zombies were all around the house anyway and weren't attracted to the barn on fire, especially with Herschel launching hundreds of shotgun blasts at them all.

As I said it was also to kill a fair few zombies, at least 20 I'd say and maybe he hoped for more. If they had stayed up there and everyone else was killed they would then be trapped, that would be a pretty stupid idea as well then.

MungBean wrote: »

They could see what we seen and Darly even said a herd of that size would rip the house apart. So they knew they were dealing with a massive amount of zombies.

Daryl knew but they don't all have one hive-mind. It's kind of depressing to think survivalist hicks would be most suited to surviving a zombie apocalypse. Good spot by the makers of the tv show that.

Psychedelic wrote: »

Ah I give up. Some people don't mind these things but it just does my head in.

Well that's not the issue, there issue is whether these really are plot holes or just nitpicking. I can't believe you looked at the comics with the same critical eye and didn't find similar faults. But then they are very different mediums.

Psychedelic wrote: »

Would fire even kill a zombie ? surely you're just turning them into movable incendiary devices.

Adolph answered this one smarter then I ever could. What Rick might not know is the zombies are probably afraid of fire (going by Romero myth.)

ricero

why didnt jimmy just start driving when rick and carl jumped on the roof of the rv and they could of just held on ?

Basq

Gave up after episode 8 this season..

.. but went and watched the final 5 this season.

Far far better than what went before it this season.. It felt like a brand new exciting show for the first time in close to 20 episodes .

I've read the graphic novels up to about issue 50 so I know what's to come somewhat.. but good to see the comic storylines and TV originial storylines somewhat loosely come together.

Glad to see we only have to wait til Fall for new episodes too.

constitutionus

in regards to the barn thing i thought it was obvious that the point was to kill as many of them as possible without firing a shot and alert the others to where rick and carl were plus the sheer scale of the threat.

remember it was at night.

without that thing blazing away the people in the house would have no idea if they were dealing with 20 or 200 coming out of the treeline.

as already stated by other posters herschel STILL thought he could handle it.

could daryl have done the maths without that fire ?

TBH starting the fire was the smartest thing they did. its certainly more believable as a tactic than the miraculous head shots everyone was suddenly capable of.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Basq wrote: »

Gave up after episode 8 this season..

.. but went and watched the final 5 this season.

Far far better than what went before it this season.. It felt like a brand new exciting show for the first time in close to 20 episodes .

I've read the graphic novels up to about issue 50 so I know what's to come somewhat.. but good to see the comic storylines and TV originial storylines somewhat loosely come together.

Glad to see we only have to wait til Fall for new episodes too.

hang your head in shame

Basq

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

hang your head in shame

I don't think it's the first time you've expressed your "disgust" over this..

.. meh!

wonderfullife

The head shots are just a bit of dramatic license, i think it's safe to assume they are not all SAS/Navy Seal/Delta Force skilled shots, i dont think the scene would have been enhanced in a greater way to show the shots they missed with (or to show them missing with shots)..... more to the point shooting from cars they are in no present danger, so it didnt serve any dramatic purpose to see them miss. Whereas in the penultimate episode, when Daryl missed with his crossbow (shocking!) it did serve some dramatic purpose!

I'm not a comic book fan but i read somewhere that they devoted a whole issue to gun training (open to correction), that simply wouldnt work in the tv show. I'd rather watch a moralistic do-we-dont-we lose our humanity Dale episode than them holed up in the woods shooting targets!

ryoishin

Some of the events that people are complaining about are pivitol to bring about the madness that happens in the prison. Im not sure how to spoiler so I wont say anything.

Regarding setting the barn on fire. Rick had 2 things to worry about, his son and his pregnant wife. The fire both alerted the others and helped to draw some of the herd to the barn and also helped to protect his son. He would run out of ammo very quickly if he just started shooting.

Lori is a muppet and I think they re writting her that way. Also shes pregnant and pregnant women do crazy things ha!

In regards to using a sword. Take it from someone who trains in a Japanese sword art, they dont last long without needing repair and head shots tend to break the kantanna blade. A bludgoning weapon would be better.

Also if they were to make the show exactly like the comics it would never get shown. If you have nt read the comic its crazy, no character is safe and mad stuff happens to them that would never be allowed on tv.

Hygro

ryoishin wrote: »

Also if they were to make the show exactly like the comics it would never get shown. If you have nt read the comic its crazy, no character is safe and mad stuff happens to them that would never be allowed on tv.

I agree with this, I'm sure that (what I think is the major part in the whole comic storyline) will not happen.

retalivity

Hygro wrote: »

I agree with this, I'm sure that (what I think is the major part in the whole comic storyline) will not happen.

This show is now a huge moneyspinner for AMC....not a chance they will risk it by putting in some of the more....shall we say risque elements that happen in the comic

PhiloCypher

retalivity wrote: »

Hygro wrote: »

I agree with this, I'm sure that (what I think is the major part in the whole comic storyline) will not happen.

This show is now a huge moneyspinner for AMC....not a chance they will risk it by putting in some of the more....shall we say risque elements that happen in the comic

If amc don't have the balls to at least attempt the as you say more risque elements they shouldn't have bought the tv rights in the first place and kirkman shouldn't have sold them.

Hygro

PhiloCypher wrote: »

If amc don't have the balls to at least attempt the as you say more risque elements they shouldn't have bought the tv rights in the first place and kirkman shouldn't have sold them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they told him "we wanna make this into a tv show, but see this bit right here, we won't be doing that".

Then he said "show me the money"!

tommy2bad

I duno if it would be that big a deal,

closing shot of a bound silhouette and threatening shadow in door frame with some bad dialog " funtime girly"

Cut to credits.
Note to the makers of Walking dead, if you happen to be reading, I'm available to write/right this stuff

Hygro

tommy2bad wrote: »

I duno if it would be that big a deal,

closing shot of a bound silhouette and threatening shadow in door frame with some bad dialog " funtime girly"

Cut to credits.
Note to the makers of Walking dead, if you happen to be reading, I'm available to write/right this stuff

Oh that'll be in it alright, I meant something else

DyldeBrill

I'm still wondering who that hooded person was...wrecking my head...actually tempted to look at a spoiler but so far I've been holding strong

expectationlost

DyldeBrill wrote: »

I'm still wondering who that hooded person was...wrecking my head...actually tempted to look at a spoiler but so far I've been holding strong

she's just another survivor

expectationlost

wonderfullife wrote: »

The head shots are just a bit of dramatic license, i think it's safe to assume they are not all SAS/Navy Seal/Delta Force skilled shots, i dont think the scene would have been enhanced in a greater way to show the shots they missed with (or to show them missing with shots)..... more to the point shooting from cars they are in no present danger, so it didnt serve any dramatic purpose to see them miss. Whereas in the penultimate episode, when Daryl missed with his crossbow (shocking!) it did serve some dramatic purpose!

it would serve the purpose to showing that they can't shoot dead all the zombies, what about the long term threat of zombies for now they can still over run.

retalivity

retalivity wrote: »

This show is now a huge moneyspinner for AMC....not a chance they will risk it by putting in some of the more....shall we say risque elements that happen in the comic

I have no idea how risque the elements you're referring to are, but I'd be surprised if that were the case - remember they're the same crowd that do Breaking Bad, so they do have balls.

tommy2bad

Hygro wrote: »

Oh that'll be in it alright, I meant something else

I'll have to read the comic again, cant think of any other stuff that would be beyond the pale and any I can think of are ruled out by the change in the cast of characters.