The Walking Dead - Season 2 [AMC - US] *Spoilers*

DeepBlue

expectationlost wrote: »

The signs of life that darryl found out in the woods

remind me

Daryl is out looking for Sophia and comes across a house which he investigates and finds signs that someone was sleeping in a closet and there was *I think* signs of some eaten food. This was earlier on in the season before the mid-season break.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i assumed that sophia bunked there for a night and then ran off/got bitten

although i do remember people saying the timeline didn't fit

Psychedelic

uncleoswald wrote: »

Dramatic license, but I don't know ANY film/show that doesn't take license when it comes to timing coincidences. Also all other zombies transformations we have seen have come from deaths caused by been bitten, and we really don't know what the virus does to the brain in death. So not to sound too scientificy, maybe Shane was deader then others we have seen?

Dramatic license is fair enough, but we saw a few episodes ago the 2 bad guys who Rick killed in the bar, and all the dead people in the cars on the highway in the first episodes. How come none of them turned into zombies?

uncleoswald wrote: »

Are you saying it was a coincidence?

It was very convenient that they have now all moved into and barricaded the house, just before a load of zombies find the farm.

retalivity wrote: »

Herschel barricaded them in because they (mistakenly) believed randall was loose with a gun.

No, Hershel invites them into the house and talks about barricading up the house before the hostage got free. It's at the very start of the episode (not counting the intro bit).

CastorTroy

Didn't get through the whole thread so sorry if repeated points:
Yeah Hershel was letting them into the house and setting up the barricade due to the swamp getting hard and the stream or something drying up, so there was easier access for the zombies and it was easier to keep people safe.

I personally believe T-Dog is somehow orchestrating the deaths. After last week's death, look how many lines he got this week. So imagine how big a role he'll have next week after this week's death.

And I think Carl is more dangerous than Shane. First he's responsible for what happened last week and now it seems to be his gunshot that attracted the zombies for next week.

uncleoswald

Psychedelic wrote: »

Dramatic license is fair enough, but we saw a few episodes ago the 2 bad guys who Rick killed in the bar, and all the dead people in the cars on the highway in the first episodes. How come none of them turned into zombies?

That is why I asked if Rick shot those two in the head. When we find out more about the virus we can call plot-hole, of which I'm sure there will be a few.

Psychedelic wrote: »

It was very convenient that they have now all moved into and barricaded the house, just before a load of zombies find the farm.

No, Hershel invites them into the house and talks about barricading up the house before the hostage got free. It's at the very start of the episode (not counting the intro bit).

I think it was mentioned that the swamp was drying up so it would no longer protect the farm like it had in the past. Also Otis is no longer rounding up loose walkers around the farm so when they got stuck in the mud they would attract others. The increased zombie danger was also highlighted by the zombies at the start of the episode. I'm happy to presume Herschel knew this.

briany

It would be nice if the show gave some more back story to the entire situation they find themselves in. Telling that tale, both from the broad perspective of how it got started and individuals recounting what the outbreak was like for them, how they wound in the situation where we first meet them would at least give the viewer some of what they crave while listening to the daily chats on the farm. Flashbacks are a little bit too "Lost" maybe but it's a good alternative to the boredom and ennui that takes up half of every episode.

And boredom is the last thing that these people should be facing because by the logic of the last episode's closing moments, zombies are attracted by loud noises such as gunfire. That sounds reasonable enough but it's certainly not the first time guns have gone off in or around the vicinity of the farm. In fact, since one shot seems to attract so many, the relative regularity of gunfire in the series should see them under constant assault. It begs the question as to whether the writers have ever thought about any consistent behavior patterns for the zombie hordes. I think since 28 days later came out, writers in the zombie genre don't know what they want theirs to be. Do they want slow, shambling, soulless, brainless creatures who overpower you with numbers and a grim relentlessness or the 'fast' zombie who is vicious, who can sprint and snarl and who possesses a kind of intelligence. You can't have it both ways, and trying to do so makes suspension of disbelief nigh on impossible.

expectationlost

they been wandering around, i think they put enough into the start of the episode about the desperate zombies going after all their cows

PhiloCypher

ladysarastro wrote: »

Maybe they're trying to show the zombie genes eating the healthy living genes...?

I fail to see how its only 14 days since Carl has been shot. Like the little brat was on deaths door and now he's running around being annoying. Surely he'd need more time to recuperate.
Also it seems to have gone from being scorching with them dripping sweat to them all wearing thermals and jackets.
How long is it since the original outbreak?

The most obvious explanation for the zombie flashes is as I already said their life (under constant threat of being attacked by zombies) flashing before their eyes. It's nothing more complicated then that imo.

As for Carl's recovery I'm with ya there, it would have been fair enough if they had followed the comic where the bullet passed all the way through his shoulder and there were no real complications , but here he was on deaths door , that said I found the lori Bedside sobbing scenes tedious so I'm kinda glad they weren't uber realistic.

MungBean

Was Shane nailing wooden planks to the steel bars of the windmill at one stage ?

constitutionus

Princess Peach wrote: »

Well I thought that was a brilliant ep! Nail biting at the end, I'm all shivery and need a cup of tea :pac:

Terrified also. I was very suspicious when Randal came back as a zombie, not eaten or anything. Kinda saw the end bit coming then but was still brilliant. Has to be a new thing though cause Dale didn't come back... but he was shot in the head though. We will see how this works soon I guess.

Season started off slow but the last few episodes were great. Can't wait for the finale!

when they first copped that people come back after dying whether they were bitten or not in the comics rick went back to shanes grave (as he'd been dead for ages in them) to dig him up and kill him again as he couldnt take the idea of him being "alive" in a grave.

i was kinda hoping they could do the same with dale here but as ya said he's been shot in the head by daryl so no coming back for him.

littlejp

We should have a seperate thread titled: "Pick holes in The Walking Dead".

Can some people not just enjoy it for what it is?
I've been loving the last few episodes after I found the first half of Season 2 quite boring. It's building up to a great last episode.

constitutionus

on the infection thing this is the way i see it.

everyones infected so if they kick the bucket in anyform from a heart attack or old age they turn.

a bite catalyses the infection so it kills you but it takes time, like scepticemia.

so its a fever, you then die, and then come back .

the comics do show that ya can avoid that if you take drastic action fast but in the main its lethal to be bit.

in fact i'd wager you come back no matter HOW badly youve been mutilated as long as the heads in one peice.

i think that may explain the "half a girl" rick encounterd in episode one.

on the "flashes" to me its the onset of the zombie hunger illustrating why when ya come back its with a mad on for flesh straight off the batt. a bit like the hallucinations you get with fever . its more an indication of how far gone you are than anything you experienced in life.

wonderfullife

Psychedelic wrote: »

Dramatic license is fair enough, but we saw a few episodes ago the 2 bad guys who Rick killed in the bar, and all the dead people in the cars on the highway in the first episodes. How come none of them turned into zombies?


It was very convenient that they have now all moved into and barricaded the house, just before a load of zombies find the farm.


No, Hershel invites them into the house and talks about barricading up the house before the hostage got free. It's at the very start of the episode (not counting the intro bit).

Rick definitely shot the big dude in the head execution style after already putting 2 bullets in him. At the time i just thought it was him becoming more of a bad-ass. As for the guy behind the bar i'll have to rewatch it but i think it was a head shot.


Snipped from Robert Kirkman interview: (dont think it needs tagging but i'll edit it if anybody does)

TVLINE | Shane turning into a zombie in the end pretty much confirms that everyone’s already infected. Can you confirm that that’s what Jenner whispered in Rick’s ear?

[Hesitates] Well, I can’t confirm that. But what I can say is that Shane turning after being stabbed definitely does inform Rick revealing what Jenner whispered,

in the next episode.

TVLINE | Does Rick debate sharing this newfound intel with the others, or does the approaching zombie stampede delay that?

Yeah, there’s sh-t ton of zombies on the way to the farm, so he’s not going to have a lot of time for that.

TVLINE | This does raise the question about the dead bodies in the season-opening traffic jam — why hadn’t they all been turned?

I think if you go back and watch that [sequence you'll see] we were very careful to have them be in cars that were in accidents, so the brain would’ve had trauma. Or they had some kind of wounds somewhere on their heads to show that their brains had been killed, like somebody came across and killed them. We knew that we were building to this throughout the entire season.


*Meh that last answer may smack of convenience that so many people flat out died in a huge pile up.....but it's better than complete contradictory nonsense.

As for the barricades.....It may be convenient but it was dumb not to do it before now.....anyway i personally dont see them going down to the basement to hide for 3 days!!

ladysarastro wrote: »

Maybe they're trying to show the zombie genes eating the healthy living genes...?

I fail to see how its only 14 days since Carl has been shot. Like the little brat was on deaths door and now he's running around being annoying. Surely he'd need more time to recuperate.
Also it seems to have gone from being scorching with them dripping sweat to them all wearing thermals and jackets.
How long is it since the original outbreak?

To be honest, it's in Atlanta, Georgia, their climate does range from very hot to very cold. But assuming that time-line is accurate......it wouldnt be the biggest stretch to believe they had a few scorchers in autumn/winter. The hottest day of the year in Ireland in 2011 was September 28th.....

Carl recovering in 2 weeks? Meh bit of a stretch but nothing major. Kids recover quicker but yeah maybe 4-6 weeks would be more realistic.

red dave

I think the second half of this season has been huge improvement to the first half. With Darabont's leaving (or fired) just before the mid-season point does anyone know if the episodes after his leaving were already written?

constitutionus

just got through watching the ending again.

i was leaning on the side that the stuff the doc said in the CDC to rick was about lori being up the duff. after all that would show up in a blood test.

but considering rick did seem to be hanging around for a fair bit just standing around looking at shane , maybe he did tell him that they were all infected already and he was waiting for him to turn.

certainly he didnt seem all that shocked and seemed to be more interested in seeing if carl got a clean head shot than anything else.

OctavarIan

MungBean wrote: »

Was Shane nailing wooden planks to the steel bars of the windmill at one stage ?

Was he not nailing them to each other? I didn't look closely mind.

briany wrote:

it's certainly not the first time guns have gone off in or around the vicinity of the farm. In fact, since one shot seems to attract so many, the relative regularity of gunfire in the series should see them under constant assault. It begs the question as to whether the writers have ever thought about any consistent behavior patterns for the zombie hordes.

This was all hinted to over the last few episodes. Zombies are moving from the cities out into the countryside in search of food. The creek and riverbed are drying up and hardening, meaning less zombies will get stuck in the mud. The cows out in the fields are an inviting buffet. This is a recent development, hence why the gunshots attracted the walkers. However no-one on the farm was expecting a herd that size to be so close, so soon.

wonderfullife

constitutionus wrote: »

just got through watching the ending again.

i was leaning on the side that the stuff the doc said in the CDC to rick was about lori being up the duff. after all that would show up in a blood test.

but considering rick did seem to be hanging around for a fair bit just standing around looking at shane , maybe he did tell him that they were all infected already and he was waiting for him to turn.

certainly he didnt seem all that shocked and seemed to be more interested in seeing if carl got a clean head shot than anything else.

Hindsight is a great thing but when Jenner took the blood tests he was asked were they ok and he replied "nothing unusual"...... which at the time obviously we assumed it meant none of them were infected. Looking back, it probably meant all of them were infected and his search for someone "immune" to it goes on.

I agree Rick kept looking back at shane until Carl showed up and startled him. I think it's all pointing towards Rick knowing.....shooting the guy in the head at the bar, telling shane the 2 zombie cops "probably had scratches", the reason he decides to shoot Randall as opposed to hanging him......

MungBean

OctavarIan wrote: »

Was he not nailing them to each other? I didn't look closely mind.

He was hammering the top of the planks which were laying on a steel frame.

Dempsey

I reckon Jenner was telling Rick that Shane was the father of the baby.

littlejp

wonderfullife wrote: »

I think it's all pointing towards Rick knowing.....shooting the guy in the head at the bar, telling shane the 2 zombie cops "probably had scratches", the reason he decides to shoot Randall as opposed to hanging him......

Totally agree.

CastorTroy

red dave wrote: »

I think the second half of this season has been huge improvement to the first half. With Darabont's leaving (or fired) just before the mid-season point does anyone know if the episodes after his leaving were already written?

Reading an interview with Robert Kirkman after, I think, the 18 Miles Out episode, it was brought up about the fact that Rick just came out and said to Shane exactly what he thought. And Robert said that this was due to the new showrunner not wanting these things to drag out. So Darabont was there for the first half but after he left, if episodes were written they were probably rewritten.

wonderfullife

Dempsey wrote: »

I reckon Jenner was telling Rick that Shane was the father of the baby.

That's impossible unfortunately.....

Most paternity tests are done after the baby is born but there are 2 specific tests that can be done whilst pregnant to determine paternity and both require needles and an ultrasound.

More to the point, pregnancy doesnt actually show up in routine blood testing.... pregnancy is determined by HcG levels in urine (why girls pee onto sticks) it can be specifically tested for in the blood but wouldnt show up otherwise.

Even more to the point, when lori tells rick she's preggo, he does seem taken aback by it but handles it in a good way. I'd be very surprised if thats what was said by Jenner.

_blank_

wonderfullife wrote: »

the reason he decides to shoot Randall as opposed to hanging him......

so why make a noose in the first place?

wonderfullife

Des wrote: »

so why make a noose in the first place?

you could see Rick trying to think when he was at the top of the loft....will this height snap his neck, will it affect brain function...... at the end of the day even if he knows the dead reanimate anyway, regardless of bites, it's still a case of learning more as he goes on...

its either that or just so he can stand around looking busy (a la Shane nailing wooden planks down) so Lori could come talk more nonsense and avoid parenting duty!

briany

OctavarIan wrote: »

This was all hinted to over the last few episodes. Zombies are moving from the cities out into the countryside in search of food. The creek and riverbed are drying up and hardening, meaning less zombies will get stuck in the mud. The cows out in the fields are an inviting buffet. This is a recent development, hence why the gunshots attracted the walkers. However no-one on the farm was expecting a herd that size to be so close, so soon.

You'd think they would have heard a herd of that size at that distance. With the amount of noise they make even in an unprovoked state with their general snarling and groaning especially in a large number, they have little license to believably sneak up on anyone, except maybe the deaf and even then with the state that some of those walkers look to be in, there's every chance the deaf would smell them a way off still.

I find the series' inconsistency on the walkers generally to be quite frustrating. They just are as a scene needs them to be really. They're noisy but they're quiet, they shamble but can also sprint, they appear aimless but have direction, they attack anything that moves except each other, they cannot be killed by a shot to their body but can be killed by a shot to the head even though most of their brain is dead anyway so it shouldn't matter, they have locomotion yet basic biology tells us that should be impossible.

The series has a great opportunity to take the tropes found in zombie movies, to expound on them and give them a continuity, a logic but why do that? That might actually be compelling and a good use of the opportunity the series has.

wonderfullife

briany wrote: »

You'd think they would have heard a herd of that size at that distance. With the amount of noise they make even in an unprovoked state with their general snarling and groaning especially in a large number, they have little license to believably sneak up on anyone, except maybe the deaf and even then with the state that some of those walkers look to be in, there's every chance the deaf would smell them a way off still.

I find the series' inconsistency on the walkers generally to be quite frustrating. They just are as a scene needs them to be really. They're noisy but they're quiet, they shamble but can also sprint, they appear aimless but have direction, they attack anything that moves except each other, they cannot be killed by a shot to their body but can be killed by a shot to the head even though most of their brain is dead anyway so it shouldn't matter, they have locomotion yet basic biology tells us that should be impossible.

The series has a great opportunity to take the tropes found in zombie movies, to expound on them and give them a continuity, a logic but why do that? That might actually be compelling and a good use of the opportunity the series has.

Before Season 1 even begun, AMC tweeted the following.....now bare in mind this is AMC who have dropped numerous clangers with this show, i.e. the dvd extras but anyway:

Zombie Rule #1: Ability to run is based on the amount of time a zombie has been undead, and how much decay has set in.

Zombie Rule #2: Zombies decay but at a much slower rate than humans, and it's still possible to differentiate between young and old zombies.

Zombie Rule #3: Zombies are like lions: if they've eaten, you can walk by them without fear, but a pack of hungry zombies will attack you.

Zombie Rule #4: The quickest speed of any zombie is a shambling run. see Night of the Living Dead. NO sprinters exist.

Zombie Rule #5: Zombies are not dexterous. They cannot pick up or use any items more complex than a rock or a stick.

Zombie Rule #6: Zombies have poor eyesight but they do have a strong sense of smell.

Zombie Rule #7: Zombies cannot speak but can communicate by pack mentality. The herd tends to move together if they sight food.

Zombie Rule #8: There is no overt recognition of people or places, there is a sense of familiarity that can dictate where a zombie moves.

Zombie Rule #9: There's no known cause of the zombie mutation, but it's suspected to be a virus or infection.

Zombie Rule #10: Once you're bitten you'll die and reanimate as a walker. How long it takes is related to the nature your bite.


I know a couple of these rules have been contradicted. In season 1 when the guts, blood and intestines were washed off, the zombies seemed to smell Rick and Glenn....yet if that was the case they should have smelled them hiding under cars.

I think , in general, they havent used too much artistic license. we can nitpick here and there on things but i think continuity and logic, for the most part, is pretty good (as good as it can be really when dealing with zombies).

Ultimate Ultan

wonderfullife wrote: »

Zombie Rule #4: The quickest speed of any zombie is a shambling run. see Night of the Living Dead. NO sprinters exist.

Zombie Rule #5: Zombies are not dexterous. They cannot pick up or use any items more complex than a rock or a stick.

Both of these points make me think that Zombies aren't as big a threat as the fear of Zombies makes them. I know this isn't TWD related, but here's an interesting take on the Zombie Apocalypse:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html

Plenty of contradictions but sure its a Zombie TV show. I can live with things not entirely adding up - what I find really distracting is when characters make incredibly stupid decisions (Lori driving to town, Carl never being supervised etc etc).

In terms of the Infection / Renner issue. My feeling is that most people are infected (perhaps some are not) with some kind of underlying infection that is dormant (think herpes / cold sore).

When you die your immune system no longer suppresses this and you turn. When you get bitten / scratched you are infected with un-suppressed version of the virus and slowly turn.

I think Renner either told Rick that Lori was preggers or that everyone was infected. If it is the latter, I think Rick is saying nothing so that people do not despair and this is why he has avoided the issue / made excuses.

Regarding the zombies in the wood - I would say they have slowly been moving in on the farm. Either following in the direction of the cars - chasing far away gunshots or perhaps have been directed there by the other survivors. Who knows - but I don't think it was Just Carls gunshot, I think that was just the last Marco Polo.

wonderfullife

Deleted User wrote: »

Plenty of contradictions but sure its a Zombie TV show. I can live with things not entirely adding up - what I find really distracting is when characters make incredibly stupid decisions (Lori driving to town, Carl never being supervised etc etc).

In terms of the Infection / Renner issue. My feeling is that most people are infected (perhaps some are not) with some kind of underlying infection that is dormant (think herpes / cold sore).

When you die your immune system no longer suppresses this and you turn. When you get bitten / scratched you are infected with un-suppressed version of the virus and slowly turn.

I think Renner either told Rick that Lori was preggers or that everyone was infected. If it is the latter, I think Rick is saying nothing so that people do not despair and this is why he has avoided the issue / made excuses.

Regarding the zombies in the wood - I would say they have slowly been moving in on the farm. Either following in the direction of the cars - chasing far away gunshots or perhaps have been directed there by the other survivors. Who knows - but I don't think it was Just Carls gunshot, I think that was just the last Marco Polo.

good post. i really like your infection idea, sounds good/plausible to me!!

as for bolded bit....i think, in general, people would make silly decisions under the stress of a zombie apocalypse. The fact Carl is seemingly never watched (despite someone always saying 'watch carl!!!') is bordering on an in-joke at the mo!! then again, they cant watch the kid 24-7 either. Lori driving after Rick.....doesnt seem that bad. she's in a car, has no idea of the situation Rick, Hershel and Glenn are in....and wants to find her husband. it's not like she was randomly searching, she knew where she was going.

wonderfullife

Also, people speculating about the preggo thing...... would that really fit the scene? Season 2 opened with Rick on the radio talking to Morgan, and he said "I met a doctor, he told me something [pause] that doesn't matter...."

1. why would Jenner feel its his place to tell a random person his wife is pregnant?

2. why would rick feel the need to almost tell another semi-random person his wife is pregnant?

3. when Jenner whispered in his ear, he looked visibly taken aback, i doubt it's anything to do with pregnancy - rick seemed shocked when lori told him.

Throw in other factors, like pregnancy not showing up in routine blood tests....i'd say it's nigh-on-impossible its pregnancy related.