blanchardstown yorkies not pure bred?

Sigma Force

Bottom line op you won't get your money back, if you have no papers and no receipt it's unfortunetly it's a case of lesson learned/buyer beware and all that.
The price, the meeting in the car park for the first time would of been huge alarm bells. But it's done now just enjoy your pooch.

zookey

i can understand anyone not bringing a stranger to their house, i would do same thing, and yes the mother did have visible signs of being a new mother and constantly made contact with her new pup in the blanket, its eyes were open & it was quiet alert... i have a west highland without papers & he is a pre bred i have owned 2 boxers one without papers & they also were pure bred dogs, i dont think its necessary to have papers unless one intends to breed or show the dogs...i have never heard of puppy farms in all my years of buying dogs & i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

ppink

zookey wrote: »

i can understand anyone not bringing a stranger to their house, i would do same thing, and yes the mother did have visible signs of being a new mother and constantly made contact with her new pup in the blanket, its eyes were open & it was quiet alert... i have a west highland without papers & he is a pre bred i have owned 2 boxers one without papers & they also were pure bred dogs, i dont think its necessary to have papers unless one intends to breed or show the dogs...i have never heard of puppy farms in all my years of buying dogs & i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

Zookey you would be very surprised at what horrors exist in our little Emerald Isle. There ahve been lots of programmes done on tv about Ireland and its puppy farming.....while you are online now why dont you check out the ISPCA website and others and read for yourself.

Honey-ec

zookey wrote: »

i can understand anyone not bringing a stranger to their house, i would do same thing, and yes the mother did have visible signs of being a new mother and constantly made contact with her new pup in the blanket, its eyes were open & it was quiet alert

The mother should never have been separated from the rest of the litter while they were that young.

zookey wrote: »

i have never heard of puppy farms in all my years of buying dogs & i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

I'm genuinely not having a go here, but did you research any of your dog purchases? It would be almost impossible not to be aware of puppy farming/backyard breeding otherwise.

And no, papers aren't a necessity for a pet, but requesting them from the breeder will pretty much tell you straightaway if they're on the level and if people just refused to buy dogs without them it would make a big difference to the puppy mill industry.

liloldeme

zookey wrote: »

i have never heard of puppy farms in all my years of buying dogs & i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

I know a couple who had the same thing happen to them, they didn't know about "puppy farms" - not everyone will watch tv so not aware of it - I know I don't watch tv! Friends pup was advertised as IKC reg too - so papers do not mean everything.

I would understand people not wanting to bring strangers to their home too - if they are elderly or if they were away for a while and someone came to take the pups (happened to a neighbour of my friend - gone for 15 mins to the shop and dog (ikc reg & expensive breed) gone when they came home)

Be great if you had a number for them, or even the shop where you met - if its local enough the workers/owners of the shop may know them to see, they prob bring all their customers there!

If you love the dog and money doesn't matter great but i fully understand how annoyed you would be. Hope you get some results!

andreac

zookey wrote: »

i can understand anyone not bringing a stranger to their house, i would do same thing, and yes the mother did have visible signs of being a new mother and constantly made contact with her new pup in the blanket, its eyes were open & it was quiet alert... i have a west highland without papers & he is a pre bred i have owned 2 boxers one without papers & they also were pure bred dogs, i dont think its necessary to have papers unless one intends to breed or show the dogs...i have never heard of puppy farms in all my years of buying dogs & i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

Of course they exist, havent you seen any of the programmes on the tv or any of the reports from the ISCPA on all the dogs that are rescued all the time from these horrible people??

You did contribute to them by purchasing that pup at the side of the road. Sorry, but you really need to realise exactly what goes on with regards to puppy farmers. This was a classic example of a puppy farmer or back yard dodgy breeder.

Just so you know, a good, reputable breeder will gladly welcome you into their home to see where they are raising their beautiful puppies and see how and where they are being raised. You sarnt a stranger but a potential forever home for one of their pups they bred in their home.

Anyone that does the above that you experienced are nothing but assholes and back yard breeders who dont deserve to own, let alone even breed dogs, its a disgrace:mad:

lrushe

zookey wrote: »

i can understand anyone not bringing a stranger to their house, i would do same thing, and yes the mother did have visible signs of being a new mother and constantly made contact with her new pup in the blanket, its eyes were open & it was quiet alert... i have a west highland without papers & he is a pre bred i have owned 2 boxers one without papers & they also were pure bred dogs, i dont think its necessary to have papers unless one intends to breed or show the dogs...i have never heard of puppy farms in all my years of buying dogs & i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

Zookey, can I just tell you how I went about buying my last dog.
I researched her breed for about 4-5 years, took me about a year to find a breeder who I was comfortable with and who I felt was reputable, by the time the pups were born I wasn't a stranger to the breeder. When the litter was a week old I went to visit the breeder, I wasn't allowed handle the pups for fear of disturbing the mother or passing on an illness to the pups. I observed the litter with their mother a couple of feet back with a baby gate in between me and the whelping box in the breeder's kitchen. I did get to meet the mother again away from her pups when she was brought outside to go to the toilet. At 3 weeks old I went back to the breeder to provisional pick my pup but again I wasn't allowed to handle the pups, the breeder recommend which pups would suit me based on what we had discussed were my needs. At 5 weeks old I had my last visit to confirm which pup I wanted, only at this stage was I allowed to handle the pups. In between I was getting regular emails and pics about how my pup was getting on. Then finally at 9 weeks old my girl came to live with us I collected her, her papers, a copy of her 5 generation bloodline, her vacination card, her microchip card, a blanket with her mother's scent on it and a bag of food her breeder had been feeding her. To this day (my dog just turned 2) I can still contact her breeder should I need any advice or if I have any concerns.
Why am I telling you all this well I just want to contrast how you obtained your dog and how I obtained mine - mine would be a (condensed) example of a reputable breeder and yours would be an example of a puppy farmer / backyard breeder.
I'm not trying to rub your nose in your mistake but just trying to show you how wrong it was to obtain a pup the way you did. Hopefully you have learned your lesson and you can pass your experience onto others looking to get a pup.
Best of luck with your dog.

zoby

zookey wrote: »

i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

you have contributed .... 270 euros


:rolleyes:

DBB

Again, I find myself gobsmacked that anyone who has ever owned a dog before has not either seen TV or read the dozens of newspaper reports in the past 10 years about the scourge of puppy famring in Ireland... Or that they haven't seen posters in vet's waiting rooms, internet articles/discussion forums, even talked to other dog owners, and not somehow become aware of the extent of this problem in Ireland. I simply don't believe it!
I also have grown tired of the sympathy shown for people who fall for this trap: at the end of the day, it's all about greed. Greed on the part of the puppy farmer and BYBs, and greed on the part of the person who wants a cheap "purebred" dog and who's not prepared to wait a while for a genuine pup from a genuine breeder.
Ah yes, it's easy to forget when you have your cute (worm- and flea-ridden) fluffy bundle home from the car park that its mother is still sitting oxter-deep in her own crap and pee, churning out litter after litter, never to know the comfort of a nice home. And that your money has gone towards this misery. As long as people keep making this "mistake", the misery will never stop.
IKC papers are no guarantee of quality and neither do they pretend to be: as it stands, they simply tell you that the mother and father of your dog were of the same breed. The abuses IKC papers are open to are widespread, and just because a pup has papers is absolutely no indication that it's not puppy farmed.
The ONLY way to satisfy yourself that all is above board is to visit the puppy, see it with it's mother, and go back to collect it from the breeder when it's ready to go.
Anyone breeding dogs knows that part and parcel of selling pups is inviting new owners to meet the pups where they've been born and bred. So the explanation that some people don't want strangers coming into their house just doesn't wash. If you don't trust a person to come into your house, you certainly should not trust them with your pups.

sheenaaziz

zookey wrote: »

i can understand anyone not bringing a stranger to their house, i would do same thing, and yes the mother did have visible signs of being a new mother and constantly made contact with her new pup in the blanket, its eyes were open & it was quiet alert... i have a west highland without papers & he is a pre bred i have owned 2 boxers one without papers & they also were pure bred dogs, i dont think its necessary to have papers unless one intends to breed or show the dogs...i have never heard of puppy farms in all my years of buying dogs & i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

Responsible breeders usually want to know as much about the person their dog is going to, as well as a responsible buyer should want to know as much as possible about where the dog is coming from. Home visits by buyers are normal.

Puppy farms are Irelands darkest secret and we are number one operater of them in Europe.

It sounds to me like your whole experience sounds dodgy, learn from it and spread the word - Ireland is Europes number ONE puppy farmer.

Honey-ec

liloldeme wrote: »

I know a couple who had the same thing happen to them, they didn't know about "puppy farms" - not everyone will watch tv so not aware of it - I know I don't watch tv!

You have access to the internet, as do they presumably. The number one research tool in the world.

liloldeme wrote: »

I would understand people not wanting to bring strangers to their home too - if they are elderly or if they were away for a while and someone came to take the pups (happened to a neighbour of my friend - gone for 15 mins to the shop and dog (ikc reg & expensive breed) gone when they came home)

I don't really understand what you mean by this. Away on holidays? With a litter of puppies at home needing looking after? Did your friend go to the shops and leave a stranger alone in her house??? And I doubt there's very many elderly people breeding dogs for a living.

liloldeme

Honey-ec wrote: »

You have access to the internet, as do they presumably. The number one research tool in the world.

off the topic but unless a person knows of puppy farms how would a person come across it on the net? I know when I looked for my pets I googled about the breed, health issues, what is the best food to feed them etc,if a person doesn;t know about puppy farms its difficult for someone to find out.

[/QUOTE]I don't really understand what you mean by this. Away on holidays? With a litter of puppies at home needing looking after? Did your friend go to the shops and leave a stranger alone in her house??? And I doubt there's very many elderly people breeding dogs for a living.[/QUOTE]

For this - a friend of a friend had a very expensive breed of dog, the dog was never left alone except for one time - when all of the family were out, and the house was broken into and the dog taken. What I mean was someone maybe careful when bringing people to their home, if it was a more elderly couple or person breeding they may not want to bring the person to the house. My pup was purchased from an elderly woman who had her son there when I called. She told me she had people call asking her if she was the person breeding dogs, she had to stop as she no longer felt safe breeding.

you would know i'm not used of boards - my edit is all over the place - sorry!

Honey-ec

liloldeme wrote: »

off the topic but unless a person knows of puppy farms how would a person come across it on the net? I know when I looked for my pets I googled about the breed, health issues, what is the best food to feed them etc,if a person doesn;t know about puppy farms its difficult for someone to find out.

Because a huge number of pages on puppy ownership, etc. would have a section on puppy farmers/backyard breeders and how to avoid them.

I'm not saying you didn't come across this info, I'm just very surprised that it never once cropped up during your research.

liloldeme wrote: »

My pup was purchased from an elderly woman who had her son there when I called. She told me she had people call asking her if she was the person breeding dogs, she had to stop as she no longer felt safe breeding.

you would know i'm not used of boards - my edit is all over the place - sorry!

Well in fairness, it's just common sense to have someone else there when you're selling anything from home. If I was selling my car and someone was coming to view it, I'd make damn sure I wasn't home alone at the time.

My point is that legitimate breeders would never use the excuse of not wanting strangers in their house as a reason to meet in a car-park or somesuch. Having strangers in your house is part of the job description.

And don't worry, you'll get used to the editing function soon enough!

Cherry Blossom

zookey wrote: »

i have never heard of puppy farms in all my years of buying dogs & i'm pretty sure i have never contributed one either shocking they may be if they actually exist...

This is an incredibly naive statement to make. I owned a puppy farmed lab for 14 years. He was dumped on us by an extended family member who lived in Dublin 4 and neither he (nor his neighbours!) were able to cope with the psychological problems this pup had. The first night in our house he slept in the back hall. In the morning he had almost eaten through both the kitchen and bathroom door which were both solid wood, had pulled the skirting boards and plaster board off the bottom 4 ft of the wall all the way round and completely demolished it. The electrics and plumbing were all hanging out of the wall and the whole scene was covered in urine and extremely runny faeces. All of this without making a single sound! He lived for 14 years - for the last 11 of them he was basicly a cripple, he had every single genetic illness on the list for labradors (which is a pretty long one!).

This link gives the account of another lady's experience with 2 cavaliers that came from puppy farms, I dare you to reach the end of it with out shedding a tear.

http://www.tachnamadra.com/puppy_farming.htm
(You've no idea how long it took me to find that again, so someone better read it!)

If you are still under any illusions that puppy farms exist all you have to do is this:

http://www.google.ie/search?q=puppy+farm&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=4R7&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=L-AiTuC-LoqahQeqy5DLAw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1173&bih=512

Around 70,000 dogs are exported from puppy farms in Ireland every year.

<ETA> Forgot to add - OP if you have not already done so I suggest you get pet insurance with excellent coverage for veterinary fees as soon as possible. As soon as problems start appearing it will be too late as they will then be considered pre-existing by insurance companies and they won't pay for anything associated with that condition.

carwash_2006

If one is going to go into dog breeding then you should be prepared to have people come to your house to see the pups, it is part and parcel of the operation. If somebody is not in a position to have this happen then maybe you shouldn't breed your dogs?

Of course if you are producing mongrels but passing them off as pure breeds and selling them off for next to nothing then you may be more at risk of having some people coming over that maybe you would rather not have in your house. If you are putting care and attention into how you do it, health testing the animals etc, then you will be charging more and will put a fair few people off due to that. Also, a really good breeder is likely to expect to have more than one phone conversation with a prospective owner as they will have a fair few questions they want answered before they consider selling them a pup.

boomerang

I read it and shared on facebook

sheenaaziz

This is not the first time I have heard of Teacup yorkies being sold in car parks recently. There has been a few reports of unsatisfied customers and the situations seem similar - I wonder if it was the same "breeder"

liloldeme

Honey-ec wrote: »

Because a huge number of pages on puppy ownership, etc. would have a section on puppy farmers/backyard breeders and how to avoid them.

I'm not saying you didn't come across this info, I'm just very surprised that it never once cropped up during your research.

Well in fairness, it's just common sense to have someone else there when you're selling anything from home. If I was selling my car and someone was coming to view it, I'd make damn sure I wasn't home alone at the time.

My point is that legitimate breeders would never use the excuse of not wanting strangers in their house as a reason to meet in a car-park or somesuch. Having strangers in your house is part of the job description.

And don't worry, you'll get used to the editing function soon enough!

I will be honest in saying my research didn't, it brought a lot of breed sites I could join and get in contact with other owners. I purchased my dog off a good breeder but it is in the last year or so I actually heard of puppy farms (no tv - no time!) and I know a people who didn't know until recently.

It is common sense to have someone there but for the OP who didn't know of farms maybe it didn't seem abnormal, like not bringing the person to their house for safety, I know I wouldn't purchase unless I went to the house but we can't assume everyone knows of puppy farms and guidelines of buying a pup. IF like me they researched the breed and nothing came up about farms they wouldn't know. I agree with part of the job description etc but not everyone knows. The lady I purchased my dog off did retire, she was old, living alone and it gave her something to do, but she didn't feel safe because of people calling to the house - even when she didn;t have a litter for sale. The sooner legislation is brought in the better!

ISDW

liloldeme wrote: »

I will be honest in saying my research didn't, it brought a lot of breed sites I could join and get in contact with other owners. I purchased my dog off a good breeder but it is in the last year or so I actually heard of puppy farms (no tv - no time!) and I know a people who didn't know until recently.

It is common sense to have someone there but for the OP who didn't know of farms maybe it didn't seem abnormal, like not bringing the person to their house for safety, I know I wouldn't purchase unless I went to the house but we can't assume everyone knows of puppy farms and guidelines of buying a pup. IF like me they researched the breed and nothing came up about farms they wouldn't know. I agree with part of the job description etc but not everyone knows. The lady I purchased my dog off did retire, she was old, living alone and it gave her something to do, but she didn't feel safe because of people calling to the house - even when she didn;t have a litter for sale. The sooner legislation is brought in the better!

Sorry, but if someone wants to buy a breed that doesn't exist, why on earth would they think that a reputable breeder would have any? And to buy a dog without any papers from a car park - think of it as something other than a puppy. You want to buy a new TV, you see one for sale on an internet site. You meet the seller in a car park, give them your money and you take the TV with no receipt or guarantee. You know exactly what you're buying, its a stolen TV, from a warehouse or a shop if its still in its box. But hey, the price is right, so any scruples are forgotten.

liloldeme

ISDW wrote: »

Sorry, but if someone wants to buy a breed that doesn't exist, why on earth would they think that a reputable breeder would have any? And to buy a dog without any papers from a car park - think of it as something other than a puppy. You want to buy a new TV, you see one for sale on an internet site. You meet the seller in a car park, give them your money and you take the TV with no receipt or guarantee. You know exactly what you're buying, its a stolen TV, from a warehouse or a shop if its still in its box. But hey, the price is right, so any scruples are forgotten.

Hey hold on! I didn't say it was right at any stage so please keep comments aimed at me to yourself. I simply made a comment that the op may not have known about the farms, I didn't know they were buying a breed that doesn't exist - yorkie is the title. I at no stage said it was right or agreed to purchasing a dog from a car park either. I don't know why people on here attack people for their comments!

ISDW

liloldeme wrote: »

Hey hold on! I didn't say it was right at any stage so please keep comments aimed at me to yourself. I simply made a comment that the op may not have known about the farms, I didn't know they were buying a breed that doesn't exist - yorkie is the title. I at no stage said it was right or agreed to purchasing a dog from a car park either. I don't know why people on here attack people for their comments!

How on earth am I attacking you for your comments? I was pointing out that the OP found an ad for a breed that doesn't exist and then bought it in a car park. So obviously, no matter how much they protest, they knew there was something wrong with what they were doing. And I made the analogy with the TV to show it.

This is a discussion forum, I am discussing, nowhere in my reply did I mention you, you were saying that the OP didn't seem to know about puppy farms etc. In my opinion, and with the analogy I used, yes they did/do and just wanted a cheap puppy - like people who buy stolen TVs just want a cheap one.

Cherry Blossom

liloldeme wrote: »

I will be honest in saying my research didn't, it brought a lot of breed sites I could join and get in contact with other owners. I purchased my dog off a good breeder but it is in the last year or so I actually heard of puppy farms (no tv - no time!) and I know a people who didn't know until recently.

The link I posted on the last page is from a breeders website and I have seen information on puppy farms on an awful lot of breeders sites, there are more that have info on them than there are that don't. The one I posted was particularly memorable so I took the time to go back and find it again, if it was memorable for me it will be for others.

Elmidena

In the early days of 2009, I took a whim to get a dog online to keep Mum company while I was in college in Dublin and saw a huge range of ads that screamed scam central. I didn't want to spend a fortune on a dog and wasn't able to visit rescue centres at the time. Eventually I found a border collie/lab 8 week old pup and texted the owner to meet her. She gave me an address for Clondalkin, but after getting a wee bit lost at a roundabout she came out to Lidl carpark to give me the pup with his favourite toys.

Took the pup to Wexford the next day and to the vet a couple of days afterwards for a general MOT. At home, discovered pup was NOT housetrained as advertised, a picky eater (loves mince and Jessie...hates anything expensive ) and last but not least chewed anything to shreds when you looked away. Although my doggie was admittedly free, learnt another few things from the vet!

1."He" was a she
2. Had a hernia; not life threatening but could cause complications and recommended removing it if I ever got her spayed (once I learned I had a bítch, spaying was forefront of my mind!)
3. Was NOT 8 weeks old, more like 12-15 by vet's examinations
4. She was a pedigree border collie, not a mixbreed

I just wanted a dog and didn't hand money over, and though I've spent a fortune on replacing things she ate before she was evicted to a kennel outside, wouldn't trade her for the world. Had been eying up Yorkies to begin with and there had been ads for miniatures back then that raised alarm bells in my head; I had no desire to shell a few hundred out for a pup that no doubt was one of many mass-produced for Christmas-time scams.

I don't find anything dodgy about my "seller" meeting me in the carpark as I said, as it was to make it more convenient for me as she was familiar with that bit of Dublin and I wasn't after initially giving me her house address. Giving me the pup's toys for free was nice too, and was a way of getting the pup to feel less scared with a vaguely familiar scent/chew toy (I guess my hint for the dog being a chewer was there and fool me for not seeing it!)

You win some you lose some, but although you're miffed at losing a bit of money do you not love the dog? If you break down the €270 to a daily rate of however many cents a day for the life expectancy, then it's a very small price to pay for a member of the family. Small dogs are cheap to feed as well, so your weekly outgoings shouldn't be too much unless you're breaking out the diamond collars or the like!

andreac

Sunshine, buying a pup or dog shouldnt be convenient for anyone, either buyer or seller.
Its a living creature so lots of thought and effort needs to be put into the process and things like meeting in car parks etc to make it easier or more convenient for either buyer or seller are wrong, end of.

carwash_2006

Sorry Sunshine, but a genuine seller that had the dogs welfare at the forefront would never go to meet someone in a car park with the pup. To be honest, they would probably not let the dog go to anyone at the first visit. This should be about vetting the suitability of the dog for the home on the part of the buyer and the seller. Unless the person came to them with a recommendation from someone that was well respected by the seller only a backyard breeder, puppy farmer or someone who just wanted to get rid of a mistake would operate in that fashion.

liloldeme

ISDW wrote: »

How on earth am I attacking you for your comments? I was pointing out that the OP found an ad for a breed that doesn't exist and then bought it in a car park. So obviously, no matter how much they protest, they knew there was something wrong with what they were doing. And I made the analogy with the TV to show it.

This is a discussion forum, I am discussing, nowhere in my reply did I mention you, you were saying that the OP didn't seem to know about puppy farms etc. In my opinion, and with the analogy I used, yes they did/do and just wanted a cheap puppy - like people who buy stolen TVs just want a cheap one.

Sorry, I thought you were. No puppy should be considered cheap, different breeds will cost more, they are a living creature, part of the family as far as I am concerned as every pet should be. Sorry again - took you up wrong.

liloldeme

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

The link I posted on the last page is from a breeders website and I have seen information on puppy farms on an awful lot of breeders sites, there are more that have info on them than there are that don't. The one I posted was particularly memorable so I took the time to go back and find it again, if it was memorable for me it will be for others.

I believe it, I have read and seen stuff I wish I had not, to think it goes on makes me so angry! I cry thinking of it to be honest. The sooner something is done the better - I believe this year the breeding legislation will be brought in. I think the punishment should be harder tho.

ISDW

liloldeme wrote: »

Sorry, I thought you were. No puppy should be considered cheap, different breeds will cost more, they are a living creature, part of the family as far as I am concerned as every pet should be. Sorry again - took you up wrong.

No worries, sometimes difficult to read things the way they are meant on the internet:)

DBB

Sunshine! wrote: »

If you break down the €270 to a daily rate of however many cents a day for the life expectancy, then it's a very small price to pay for a member of the family. Small dogs are cheap to feed as well, so your weekly outgoings shouldn't be too much unless you're breaking out the diamond collars or the like!

With all due respect, this completely misses the point. That this person is down €270 is hardly the end of the world, especially as they were so easily parted with it by a conman.
The point is, every penny that a person gives to these conman "breeders" is more money supporting their business (which I seriously doubt pay a cent of tax on), and supporting the wretched broodstock left behind to continue the cycle of misery.
Personally, I couldn't give a hoot that the OP, or any other person looking for a cheap deal, has lost their money. Serves them right, quite frankly. But I do care that they are funding such a horrendous trade. It's worse than buying hooky DVDs and "designer" clothes, because as has been pointed out, these are living creatures that are suffering because of human ignorance, stupidity and greed.

zookey

sheenaaziz wrote: »

This is not the first time I have heard of Teacup yorkies being sold in car parks recently. There has been a few reports of unsatisfied customers and the situations seem similar - I wonder if it was the same "breeder"

was it in the blanchardstown area, near aquatic center?