Snake not eating?

Degsy

Friend of mine has a Burmese Python which has completely lost interest in food.
It hasnt actually eaten anything in nine months and nothing seems to work.
Anybody got any ideas?

rachaelc

He might be getting ready to eat your friend :eek:

Silverfish

Snakes can stop eating if their environment isn't right - not warm enough - too warm, not humid enough, not dark enough, things like that.

But not to eat for 9 months is a bit much, might be worth a trip to the vet.

Is he fed live or frozen food, do you know?

Degsy

Silverfish wrote: »

Snakes can stop eating if their environment isn't right - not warm enough - too warm, not humid enough, not dark enough, things like that.

But not to eat for 9 months is a bit much, might be worth a trip to the vet.

Is he fed live or frozen food, do you know?

He's fed on frozen rats but nowadays he wont even eat mice.

buzz

That is one of two things.

1) the snake is not happy with his enviornment, as said too warm, or too cold etc

Or

2) he is saving himself for something bigger!

What size is the snake now?

What kind of enclosure is it in?

Degsy

buzz wrote: »

That is one of two things.

1) the snake is not happy with his enviornment, as said too warm, or too cold etc

Or

2) he is saving himself for something bigger!

What size is the snake now?

What kind of enclosure is it in?

Hi..the snake is 5' long and the enclosure is about 3'x 3' glass viv with a heat lamp a tree-branch type thing

Degsy

I've been talking to my friend..if anybody wants to swap the snake for a Bearded Dragon or similar PM me..maybe one of you can get him eating again!

caspa307

tell your friend be very careful when trying to feed him

Degsy

caspa307 wrote: »

tell your friend be very careful when trying to feed him

He's given up..gonna get rid of it before he dies

Cass

Had a common Boa Constrictor for years. He stopped eating for months also. I brought him to the vet and in fairness she was a little nervous and didn't do too much.

I built him a custom tank with new lamp, heat pad, water dish, covering/bedding, and climbing pieces. The old tank was 2.5' x 1.5' x 3'. The new one was 6' x 3.5' x 2.5'.

Within a forthnight he was eating again, but he did go "off" frozen mice and would only take live. He also became "moody" and hard to handle. A friend took him off me a year later as i was moving and with a young child in the house and him reaching 5 foot (the sanke, not the child ) i was nervous.

Honey-ec

Degsy wrote: »

He's given up..gonna get rid of it before he dies

Tell him to ring Ben in Reptile Haven in Fishamble St. and see if he'll take him. Please don't let him give him away to just anyone, the snake clearly isn't happy about something and is going to need an experienced handler.

One last thing that might be worth trying is to go back to much smaller food items. If the snake hasn't eaten in nine months, then his stomach will have shrunk considerably and he won't even consider taking larger prey. Your friend may need to go right back to wiener rats or even pinkies, depending on the size of the snake.

I really wouldn't recommend trying live prey, the snake is already stressed about something and putting live mice or rats into the tank with him is only likely to stress him out even more.

Degsy

Well i took the snake in the end..first thing i did was clean out the Viv...switched on the heat pad and changed the water.He seemed to be a bit wary alrite but had a good drink of the water.

i noticed he had been kept on the floor in the corner of a room which was pretty dingy and didnt get much natural light.
So i'm gonna leave the viv near the window where it tends to get a lot of sun(if we get any) and see does that improve his mood a bit.

caspa307

hope it works out for ya mate best of luck

Dutchology

Have you got any info as to the size of the enclosure and how it's heated? If it's just the heatmat, it may not be enough. With a heatmat, you will probably need a bulb in there as well to boost the temperatures as the snake will need a very warm basking spot. With both of these heat sources, especially the heatmat, you need a thermostat to control the temperature so as not to burn the snake.

Try a variety of foods - gerbils, hamsters, mice, rats, chicks.

Make sure the snake has a secure hiding area in there and to keep the humidity at a good level, mist daily and perhaps try bedding on repti bark if that's not already what's being used.

Don't handle the snake until it has eaten.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

tallus

I'd just make sure too that the enclosure doesn't get direct sunlight as it will heat up rapidly.

edit:
Fair play to you for "rescuing" the snake Degsy.
/edit.

Degsy

Dutchology wrote: »

Have you got any info as to the size of the enclosure and how it's heated? If it's just the heatmat, it may not be enough. With a heatmat, you will probably need a bulb in there as well to boost the temperatures as the snake will need a very warm basking spot. With both of these heat sources, especially the heatmat, you need a thermostat to control the temperature so as not to burn the snake.

Try a variety of foods - gerbils, hamsters, mice, rats, chicks.

Make sure the snake has a secure hiding area in there and to keep the humidity at a good level, mist daily and perhaps try bedding on repti bark if that's not already what's being used.

Don't handle the snake until it has eaten.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

He has a heatmat that i switched on this morning but it didnt seem to have warmed up at all by this afternoon.There's a heat lamp in there which is working fine and the snake is currently basking directly under it.

I'm using beech chips as bedding..are they sufficient?
I'll fashion somewhere for him to hide in later..at the moment there's only a branch and a climby-wall-type thing.

Should i leave him to settle in before trying to feed him or will i try straight away?


Here's a pic of the current set-up

Degsy

another pic

tallus

I'd cover at least two sides of the tank with dark paper if possible or at least put it into a corner, I'm pretty sure the snake must feel exposed with only one side of the tank/viv having an opaque backing on it, and no hide. Maybe a few more branches might help too.
Doesn't look to be too small for the snake by the looks of it.
I'd say adding a decent hide would be most important to be honest. (there may be one in the viv but I can't see it, so apologies if there is one)

Degsy

tallus wrote: »

I'd cover at least two sides of the tank with dark paper if possible or at least put it into a corner, I'm pretty sure the snake must feel exposed with only one side of the tank/viv having an opaque backing on it, and no hide. Maybe a few more branches might help too.
Doesn't look to be too small for the snake by the looks of it.
I'd say adding a decent hide would be most important to be honest. (there may be one in the viv but I can't see it, so apologies if there is one)

I'll sort out a hide as soon as i can..whats the best way to make one?

tallus

Degsy wrote: »

I'll sort out a hide as soon as i can..whats the best way to make one?

I used to use plastic tubs. Admittedly I had smaller critters, mainly geckos, but anything that can keep light out should suffice. Margarine tubs were pretty handy as they are usually pretty opaque, or the plastic biscuit containers are handy too, and it's easy to cut a hole into one.
You should be able to get a custom made one pretty cheapish in any of the pet stores.
I'd use newspaper as a substrate too.. it's easy to dispose of and clean & cheap. Plus, you get to see any "emissions" that come from the snake
Fair play to you for taking the snake on dude.
edit

You probably don't need a heat mat if you have the heating overhead dude... it's not that big a viv and shouldn't take too much to heat it up. Is the overhead heater a ceramic ?

Degsy

tallus wrote: »

. Is the overhead heater a ceramic ?

Yep..i expected it to light up like a bulb but it dont!

tallus

Degsy wrote: »

Yep..i expected it to light up like a bulb but it dont!

It'll provide ambient heat.

Apparently when the Burmese are young, they are semi arboreal and spend a lot of time in trees, so the heat mat wouldn't be a huge pre-requisite to be honest, and in a setup of that size, the ceramic should provide ample heat. I'd just make sure that the snake can't come into contact with it as it will burn.
If you could place it high in one of the corners, and surround it with chicken wire etc, to prevent contact it would probably be ideal. I'd say if you had a temperature gradient from about 21C at the bottom of the viv, to around 27-30C nearer to the ceramic, it should aid thermoregulation and digestion.

Just took a look at a Wikipedia Link they can grow quite large..and need a large enclosure.

Degsy

tallus wrote: »

It'll provide ambient heat.

Apparently when the Burmese are young, they are semi arboreal and spend a lot of time in trees, so the heat mat wouldn't be a huge pre-requisite to be honest, and in a setup of that size, the ceramic should provide ample heat. I'd just make sure that the snake can't come into contact with it as it will burn.
If you could place it high in one of the corners, and surround it with chicken wire etc, to prevent contact it would probably be ideal. I'd say if you had a temperature gradient from about 21C at the bottom of the viv, to around 27-30C nearer to the ceramic, it should aid thermoregulation and digestion.

Just took a look at a Wikipedia Link they can grow quite large..and need a large enclosure.

Sorry man..meant to say its apparantly a Ball Python..not a Burmese...sorry.

Cameron Poe

That looks like a corn snake in the picture.

tallus

Degsy wrote: »

Sorry man..meant to say its apparantly a Ball Python..not a Burmese...sorry.

Ah that's better so ... at least they don't grow as large as a Burmese.

They do have a reputation for being bad feeders.

Good link Here for general husbandry.

edit

yeah I thought you said Burmese in your OP.

/edit.

tallus

We could probably do with a sticky thread here detailing some of the basics regarding reptile husbandry.

tallus

Cameron Poe wrote: »

That looks like a corn snake in the picture.

I thought that myself too when I saw the photo's.

Degsy

He almost took a chick!! First time i was waggling it and when he went to strike i got a bit of a fright and dropped it..i tried again and he started to wind around the chick but didnt actually bite down..i may be getting there lol

Edit..

Tried a bit more and eventually he took,it,wrapped around it and wolfed it down!

caspa307

can u get a pic ofthe snake cos it looks very much like a cornsnake

Degsy

caspa307 wrote: »

can u get a pic ofthe snake cos it looks very much like a cornsnake

Okies here's a couple..sorry bout the quality i didnt wanna disturb him too much.

theg81der

OMG I feel sick after reading this thread thats me not going to sleep tonight! I saw the title and all I was going to say was if your friend has a kid or anything that size get them out of the house clearly getting ready to eat something.

Cameron Poe

Looks like a texas rat snake. I doubt it's a corn.

Cameron Poe

theg81der wrote: »

OMG I feel sick after reading this thread thats me not going to sleep tonight! I saw the title and all I was going to say was if your friend has a kid or anything that size get them out of the house clearly getting ready to eat something.

Nonsense. Hilarious though.

tallus

It's not an Royal Python that's for sure, deffo looks like a rat snake of some sort.

Hellrazer

tallus wrote: »

It's not an Royal Python that's for sure, deffo looks like a rat snake of some sort.

Yep definately a Rat Snake--shouldnt really be trying chicks though.

Heres a post I made regarding Royals a while back.Same stuff applies to any snake not eating.

Royals have a habit of just going off their food for no reason whatsoever.


Picky little feckers they can be.

Few things to try.

1.Get different coloured mice.Black,brown etc.Sometimes this is all it takes to get them back eating again.

2.Brain the mouse--cut into the head with a sharp blade until the brain is exposed.The brain smell can also stimulate feeding.

3.Rub the mouse off a lizard,snake or other reptile.Again this can start a feeding response.

If all this fails and only if you notice weight loss then force feeding is recommended.If youve never done this before then get help.

Bear in mind that Royals usually start feeding again on their own without any of the above help and its only if you notice weight loss then a vets help is needed to force feed.

Hope this helps,

Richie.

Degsy

Hellrazer wrote: »

Yep definately a Rat Snake--shouldnt really be trying chicks though.

Hehe..i related this fact to the previous owner with great relish..he was obvioulsy sold the snake by a less than scrupulous dealer!

Why is it not good to give it chicks though?

Hellrazer

Degsy wrote: »

Hehe..i related this fact to the previous owner with great relish..he was obvioulsy sold the snake by a less than scrupulous dealer!

Why is it not good to give it chicks though?

The hint is in the name of the snake

Seriously though a chick wont usually have enough calcium for a snake.And its better to feed mice/rats though for a more balanced diet.

Hellrazer

Degsy--where are you based?
I think you might need more intervention.

Ive just been thinking about this and a comment Tallus made earlier in the thread and it may be down to the colder weather we`re having.

Up the temps a bit in the viv and see if it makes any difference.

Nine months is a very long time for a Ratsnake not to eat and Id start being concerned.

I have only ever force fed one snake in my life and it was a nasty horrible job but if you know what what youre doing its not too hard to do.

tallus

Kudos to Cameron Poe for spotting the snake wasn't a Royal Python to begin with.

I have to agree with Hellrazer on the force feeding thing, I saw a Royal Python being force fed around 20 years back and it was deffo a nasty thing to have to do, the snake died not long after.
It's also an excellent sign that you have the snake feeding Degsy so at least you're doing more than your mate did.
I meant to ask, does that Ceramic heater have a thermostat connected Degsy? if not it could be very problematic, as they do get really hot if not regulated.

Cameron Poe

I agree about the ceramic. Chances are it's too hot with a ceramic in that size tank. Do you know what the temperature is? Are you leaving the food in overnight after it's refused. If not give that a go. If you want to go the force feeding route I'd be inclined to drop it in to one of the better shops overnight and have them do it. I'm sure Ben in Reptile Haven or the lads in Fins,Fur,Feathers wouldn't have a problem doing it for you. It doesn't look particularly underweight but it's hard to tell from the pictures.

Hellrazer

Cameron Poe wrote: »

I agree about the ceramic. Chances are it's too hot with a ceramic in that size tank.

Being hot speeds up a snakes metabolism--Ive never seen a snake that was too hot refuse food--they usually are more active and are looing for feed outside their normal feeding schedule.

Do you know what the temperature is?

Always worth knowing^ exact temps.Id actually change the ceramic for a spot bulb.Some ceramics are Infrared based and will only raise the snakes temps by a couple of degrees and not the actual air temperature which is what you want.Easier to tell if its working aswell.I never ever trusted ceramics and only ever use spot bulbs(40-80watts) on a timer switch--12hrs on and 12 off with the heat mat on at night--this should give a decent gradient..

Are you leaving the food in overnight after it's refused. If not give that a go.

Agreed--leave it in an open paper bag over night and check in the morning.

If you want to go the force feeding route I'd be inclined to drop it in to one of the better shops overnight and have them do it. I'm sure Ben in Reptile Haven or the lads in Fins,Fur,Feathers wouldn't have a problem doing it for you.

Both of these know their stuff more than anyone else I could recommend.

It doesn't look particularly underweight but it's hard to tell from the pictures.

Can we get more pics by any chance degsy?

tallus

He could easily get a ballpark temp with those aquarium gradient type stickers if he put one at the top of the viv and one at the bottom, I also think the feeding isn't going to be a huge issue now as the snake has already taken a chick.
Does the ceramic have something similar to the items listed here.
Usually, if there's a thermostat present, there will be a black probe on the end of it that you can "dangle" near the ceramic to regulate the temperature. I didn't notice one in the photos.

Cameron Poe

It may increase their metabolism but a snake kept too hot over a long period can not only cause it to stop feeding but can also kill it (depending how hot it is obviously). I've seen this happen.

I also disagree on the ceramics. I've used these for over 10 years and their main benefit is that they do heat the air temperature, making them desirable for larger vivs. They will also dry the air out dropping humidity to very low levels. I agree with Tallus though that they should only really be used in conjunction with a thermostat.

A thermometer is most definitely needed to see exactly what the story is anyway. From the pictures it also looks like there is no hide present. I'd get one in so as the snake feels more secure.

Hellrazer

Cameron Poe wrote: »

It may increase their metabolism but a snake kept too hot over a long period can not only cause it to stop feeding but can also kill it (depending how hot it is obviously). I've seen this happen.

Ive only ever seen it happen with a faulty stat.Otherwise with a decent gradient and a supply of water then even higher temps can be ok.

I also disagree on the ceramics. I've used these for over 10 years and their main benefit is that they do heat the air temperature, making them desirable for larger vivs. They will also dry the air out dropping humidity to very low levels. I agree with Tallus though that they should only really be used in conjunction with a thermostat.

We`ll agree to disagree so--Ive had nothing but bother with ceramic both for snakes and other herps.Ive always found bulbs easier to use--maybe thats just me though<<<I like to be able to see whats heating my animals.Then again Im not fond of heat mats either after seeing one overheat.

A thermometer is most definitely needed to see exactly what the story is anyway. From the pictures it also looks like there is no hide present. I'd get one in so as the snake feels more secure.

Couldnt agree more--a thermometer is a definate must and a hide even an empty butter container with one side cut out of it would do the job.

Degsy

Hi folks..the temp with the heatlamp on seems to stay around 26 degrees...it certainly doesnt feel too hot under the lamp.
Anyway..i tried the snake last night with a mouse and he wolfed it!

aboutimeilogin!

thats a bullsnake by the way and a longer viv would be better to create a heat gradient.
deffo stick a thermostat on that ceramic. high temps can and do kill snakes!
do not force feed this snake as there are too many reasons why it may not feed.
i see it has eaten for you, leave it alone for a week or so before you offer food again.

tallus

If you could lie the viv on it's side, it might suit better short term either way Degsy.
Congrats getting the snake to feed. You're probably safer disconnecting that ceramic and just relying on a heat mat.

Degsy

Gave the snake another mouse on wednesday and this time he wasted no time at all..i also noticed he has become much more placid and easier to handle..whatever his problem was he seems to be over it!:)