Farming and Gas Fracking

frackingishell

reilig wrote: »

Might it not be worth while exploring if they actually use methods of Fracking in the North Sea without chemicals which would be useful for use in the Lough Allen Basin also?

i don't really see how introducing yet another strand of irrelevance will help what is already a fractured and at times stupid and childish debate.

Forget the North sea, keep things in Focus. Ireland, Fracking,with or without chemicals, never been done before on land, yet a smarmy guy on primetime that was laughing right through the interview says he can do it.

Discuss.

frackingishell

colrow wrote: »

its illegal, and they just use sand and water, afaik.

could you do us all a genuine favour Colrow, and confirm that? afaik isn't really good enough (just because it's at sea, and we're talking about fracking on land, and it's pointless for us to draw any meaningful use from what you're saying without concrete confirmation that it's done out there with no chemicals). This discussion is diluted enough, and there's no point diluting it further unless you have definites.
Perhaps by writing/emailing the company you work for, and getting a response from management that we could have on the record?

Would really appreciate it, thanks.

frackingishell

Username John wrote: »

I saw fracking bit on Primetime - I am not living in the North West, but watched cos I have been half following this thread.

I thought the anti-fracking rep on the show didnt do well. She seemed to not answer the questions posed, and just came across as saying "Well, whatever you say, I am not going to believe it"
Now, maybe she was justified in doing this, but I felt she didnt back it up with valid arguements.

I appreciate that it maybe a bit of a David vs Goliath battle, when debating against a CEO of a company like that, who probably has had serious media training, etc.

But I found it a bit disappointing, that it wasnt more of a debate.

Just my opinion...

john, whether she performed well or not should be neither here nor there for you. Make your own mind up.

I think the RTE host was also as much to blame for the poor debate- he seemed impatient, and hadnt done his own research, and didn't really appreciate the fact that she wasn't exactly a pr guru like that smarmy get that was laughing at us all.

In fact, the more i look back at it, the more i see that the RTE guy was like 'yes, ok, fair enough' to the tamboran person, and then VERY impatient with the anti-fracking rep. He let the tamboran guy off very easily when he said he could do it with no water. Demonstrating his own piss poor preparation. typical rte though, they do little right.

reilig

frackingishell wrote: »

i don't really see how introducing yet another strand of irrelevance will help what is already a fractured and at times stupid and childish debate.

.

Its not a debate if people only hear one side of it.

Discuss!!

garth-marenghi

reilig wrote: »

Tuppence,

That doesn't make sense to me. Can you put it in simpler language as to what the difference is between what Colrow is talking about and you are talking about?

Also, why could this process that Colrow is talking about not be used in the Lough Allen Basin and would you object to it??

What Colrow is talking about is off shore gas extraction, Tuppence is talking about onshore gas extraction that will be in very close proximity to communities. The confusion seems to be that Tamboran have stated on record that Fracking without chemicals has not take place before and they would be the first to do it. Yet a poster claims it is already happening so someone is spreaading misinformation.

With regards to fracturing without chemicals please see Dr Ingraffeas article in the anglo-celt. He is an expert with over 30 years experience in rock fracture mechanics and at the very least says 4 or 5 chemicals will be needed fo fracture. (see article).Personally I am more likely to believe this man than Tamboran who obviously have financial interests at play and are seeking to allay the fears of people and not scare away investors.

You must admit it is a little disconcerting that Tamboran have stated initially chemicals would be used to a few weeks later saying they wont be. This despite the fact that it according to them has never been done before and contradicts the opinion of Dr Ingraffea. It just seem to have been a huge technical change in the process too quickly. It all seems a little too convenient.

With regards to your question about using the process Colrow talks about in Lough Allen. Firstly there are serious doubts about whether this is possible(again see ingraffea). Perhaps there is a difference with off-shore drilling and onshore. Secondly this is not just a single issue about whether fracking will involve chemicals or not. It is about the damage done to the landscape with the wells(hundreds in Leitrim alone at short interval of a km or two.) Surely this will impact on tourism. It is about the access roads that will be needed for this. The huge volumes of traffic. The massive amounts of water that will be needed.(it is physically impossible to collect the water needed from just rainwater which Tamboran claim). Chemical free or not fracking will devastate this region and reduce the quality of life for people. So I guess what im saying is fracking off shore is totally different to doing it in very close proximity to communties.

reilig

garth-marenghi wrote: »

With regards to your question about using the process Colrow talks about in Lough Allen. Firstly there are serious doubts about whether this is possible(again see ingraffea). Perhaps there is a difference with off-shore drilling and onshore. Secondly this is not just a single issue about whether fracking will involve chemicals or not. It is about the damage done to the landscape with the wells(hundreds in Leitrim alone at short interval of a km or two.) Surely this will impact on tourism. It is about the access roads that will be needed for this. The huge volumes of traffic. The massive amounts of water that will be needed.(it is physically impossible to collect the water needed from just rainwater which Tamboran claim). Chemical free or not fracking will devastate this region and reduce the quality of life for people. So I guess what im saying is fracking off shore is totally different to doing it in very close proximity to communties.

Thank You Garth. That was clear and detailed and shows that you know what you are talking about.

I suppose on the other side of this debate then has to be the economic benefits to the area, and if these will outweigh the loss in tourism receipts?

Have there been any projected figures as to the number of people that might be employed in the initial investigation process? I wonder will it benefit local business to much of an extent?

Things are bad in leitrim at the moment. You only have to look at the club football teams in the county. Players are leaving for London, USA and OZ at a steady pace. I know a family close to me who have sold their house and are moving to OZ soon - husband, wife and 2 kids under 3. They just don't see a future in the county that they were born and grew up in.

Has anyone analysed the economic benefits of finding gas in the Lough Allen Basin?

frackingishell

reilig wrote: »

Its not a debate if people only hear one side of it.

Discuss!!

couldn't agree more reilig. But this being the internet, it's hard enough to keep things on topic as it is.

I am the most antifracking eprson you'd meet on the planet, but if it can be done with sand and water, and shown to be safe, i'd be for it. However, that comes with a big caveat- if it were up to me, the fracking company doing it with sand and water would have to allow unfettered 24 hour access to their fluid by an multiagency/multiparty independant monitoring group, FUNDED by them, in advance into a transparent account. The CEO and managers would have to put their homes and personal assets on contract as being up for confiscation if chemicals were ever used.

I want green energy. And i want to get to the bottom of all this myself. I do not trust them as far as i could throw them though, especially since the CEO of Tamboran is currently under investigation in the US, and is being sued in his capacity as former head of Southwest energy for many millions. Because he lied there.

So we've enough to discuss without bringing in the potentially irrelevant North sea. Now the North Sea would only be relevant to this discussion if we could have a DEFINTE that theyre doing it without chemicals. And even then, none of us know about the logistical differences between land and sea fracking.

So reilig, we're having a discussion here, and a debate. The north sea isn't going to change that bar diluting things, as i said. Possibly irrelevant, until Colrow can move from 'afaik' to 'definite'.

pakalasa

Colrow,
Maybe you could clarify whether chemicals are used or not? Maybe ask someone 'on the qt'.It does seem to be a significant point.
As an engineer myself (I don't work in that area), it does seem the easiest option is to use chemicals. Nighmare from an environmental point of view though.

frackingishell

garth-marenghi wrote: »

You must admit it is a little disconcerting that Tamboran have stated initially chemicals would be used to a few weeks later saying they wont be. This despite the fact that it according to them has never been done before and contradicts the opinion of Dr Ingraffea. It just seem to have been a huge technical change in the process too quickly. It all seems a little too convenient.

let's call a spade a spade here. The guy is obviously lying. if what he was saying were true and provable, he'd have this technique splashed throughout newspapers for independant verification, so he could get permission, and start making money.

He was laughing at the Irish people on rte primetime, throughout the whole interview. Literally

The current price of GAS per unit doesnt make it worthwhile for now, so he's literally taking the piss, coddling investors, trying to allay fears so he can get past the planning stage, then maybe build the wells, and use chemicals anyway, then get the gas, and f*ck off without any punishment. How WOULD we punish him? Even if he did use chemicals??

He's a liar, plain and simple, full of sh*t.

And he's laughing at us right now because we're discussing his remarks.

I repeat- if this method were viable, it would be all over newspapers, tv & online, for independant verification, so he could start making money out of it. There is an alterior motive for him saying it. make your own mind up.

reilig

Thanks Frackingishell,

It appears that you have 2 concerns or issues. The first being that of safety with the use of chemicals - I would share the same concern, as I'm sure that a lot of other people would.

The second is a mistrust of the company, tambouran, because of previous misdemeaneurs. I don't know anything about them.
Are there no laws in ireland to regulate companies like this? There is a long history of mining and exploration in ireland, and especially in the Lough Allen Basin area (where I worked myself on a drilling rig many years ago) - surely there are laws and regulations already in place or that can be put in place in order to safeguard the environment????

How did they get the licence in the first place?

Will they have to approach individual farmers in order to get permission to explore on their land?

Reilig

frackingishell wrote: »

couldn't agree more reilig. But this being the internet, it's hard enough to keep things on topic as it is.

I am the most antifracking eprson you'd meet on the planet, but if it can be done with sand and water, and shown to be safe, i'd be for it. However, that comes with a big caveat- if it were up to me, the fracking company doing it with sand and water would have to allow unfettered 24 hour access to their fluid by an multiagency/multiparty independant monitoring group, FUNDED by them, in advance into a transparent account. The CEO and managers would have to put their homes and personal assets on contract as being up for confiscation if chemicals were ever used.

I want green energy. And i want to get to the bottom of all this myself. I don not trust them as far as i could throw them though, especially since the CEO of Tamboran is currently under investigation is the US, and is being sued in his capacity as former head of Southwest energy for many millions. because he lied there.

So we're enough to discuss without bringing in the potentially irrelevant North sea. Now the North Sea would only be relevant to this discussion if we could have a DEFINTE that theyre doing it without water. And even then, none of us know about the logistical differences between land and sea fracking.

So reilig, we're having a discussion here, and a debate. The north sea isn't going to change that bar diluting things, as i said. Possibly irrelevant, until Colrow can move from 'afaik' to 'definite'.

frackingishell

alot of that info is throughout the thread reilig.

basically though, it is up to the farmer where they want to drill. But really that's irrelevant. Because fracking goes down to waater tables and destroys them, as in heh USA. If Joe the farmer says no, and Tim the farmer next door says yes, because he's broke, and the recession has hit him hard and he's no option, then everyone's water gets shagged. Agriculture is ruined. Tourism too in the area.

In the US in 2005, this first came about in the poorest areas where Cheney's company Halliburton ( through a law he enacted while in government), offered cash payments in the most disadvantaged areas in US states for Fracking rights. most of the People has no choice to accept as they were literally in poverty. Plus, they were told it was all safe and clean. Prior to 2005, Fracking had been virtually outright banned country-wide under EPA oversight (the EPA is a Federal, all US body). For obvious reasons- pumping unknown chemicals in the hundreds (no exaggeration) into watertables can't be good.

The law Cheney and Bush unbelieveably passed exempted Fracking from Federal country-wide EPA regulation, leaving it to the individual states to regulate fracking. Now we've all seen the Wire, and many know anyway how broke US states are. And also how corrupt local government can be. It was a recipe for disaster that has been borne out in whole swathes of american countryside now toxic- with cancer increased, undrinkable water, un-farmable land etc.

So government, IN THIS COUNTRY, as corrupt as it has recently shown itself to potentially be, is not an entity where i would place my faith. If there was to be government oversight of Fracking in IRELAND, would you trust our incompetant fools of politicians to manage it properly? I wouldnt.

I say again reilig, as i think it's very important. If they could do this without chemicals, it would be in the open and the method would be there for public scrutiny, so they could start making money. Especially ith a double dip recession on the cards Globally; Tamboran CEO is a liar and a cheat, he is lying, none of this adds up, and Fracking should be banned here, as in France.

i just can't work out his intentions. It's one of two things;

ONE -Has he accepted he won't get away with it here? Is that why he's saying things like' we can do it with no water' out of the blue', just to say -"feck them, this'll wreck their heads for a while, let them waste their time debating this haha". I'm dead serious here- watch the interview- he's laughing constantly, taking the piss

TWO- He's been told by someone in government that it'll get through, don't worry about it, just keep making out like things will be fine. So he's bought someone in government. And we'd never know- Swiss bank accounts are private.

one things for sure- if he really came on that tv show to seriously debate the issue, and really had worries he wouldnt be allowed to Frack here, he WOULD NOT have been laughing right the way through. He either knows he won't be allowed, or he knows he's gonna be allowed anyway. It's quite weird. NOONE laughs like that through an interview, especially not someone with his experience,and understanding how sensitive this subject is.

Something is rotten there. Big time.

reilig

Right, that doesn't really answer my question, just glosses over it and tells me that the answer can be found earlier in the thread - well I've looked, but it doesn't stand out. here it is again:

Are there no laws in ireland to regulate companies like this? There is a long history of mining and exploration in ireland, and especially in the Lough Allen Basin area (where I worked myself on a drilling rig many years ago) - surely there are laws and regulations already in place or that can be put in place in order to safeguard the environment????


Saying that you don't trust people to enact rules or laws is a personal issue for you alone rather than for all of the inhabitants of the country.

frackingishell wrote: »

alot of that info is throughout the thread reilig.

basically though, it is up to the farmer where they want to drill. But really that's irrelevant. Because fracking goes down to waater tables and destroys them, as in heh USA. If Joe the farmer says no, and Tim the farmer next door says yes, because he's broke, and the recession has hit him hard and he's no option, then everyone's water gets shagged. Agriculture is ruined. Tourism too in the area.

In the US in 2005, this first came about in the poorest areas where Cheney's company Halliburton ( through a law he enacted while in government), offered cash payments in the most disadvantaged areas in US states for Fracking rights. most of the People has no choice to accept as they were literally in poverty. Plus, they were told it was all safe and clean. Prior to 2005, Fracking had been virtually outright banned country-wide under EPA oversight (the EPA is a Federal, all US body). For obvious reasons- pumping unknown chemicals in the hundreds (no exaggeration) into watertables can't be good.

The law Cheney and Bush unbelieveably passed exempted Fracking from Federal country-wide EPA regulation, leaving it to the individual states to regulate fracking. Now we've all seen the Wire, and many know anyway how broke US states are. And also how corrupt local government can be. It was a recipe for disaster that has been borne out in whole swathes of american countryside now toxic- with cancer increased, undrinkable water, un-farmable land etc.

So government, IN THIS COUNTRY, as corrupt as it has recently shown itself to potentially be, is not an entity where i would place my faith. If there was to be government oversight of Fracking in IRELAND, would you trust our incompetant fools of politicians to manage it properly? I wouldnt.

I say again reilig, as i think it's very important. If they could do this without chemicals, it would be in the open and the method would be there for public scrutiny, so they could start making money. Especially ith a double dip recession on the cards Globally; Tamboran CEO is a liar, he is lying, none of this adds up, and Fracking should be banned here, as in France.

colrow

I'd be more concerned about about threats of subsidence than of use of chemicals, A few months ago there was a series of small earthquakes near Blackpool, and a Fracking rig was working a few miles offshore, it had to stop working ,whilst it was determined whether it caused the earthquakes.

I don't have to prove anything, its all out there in the public domain, I'm just repeating any info.

frackingishell

reilig wrote: »

Are there no laws in ireland to regulate companies like this? There is a long history of mining and exploration in ireland, and especially in the Lough Allen Basin area (where I worked myself on a drilling rig many years ago) - surely there are laws and regulations already in place or that can be put in place in order to safeguard the environment????


Saying that you don't trust people to enact rules or laws is a personal issue for you alone rather than for all of the inhabitants of the country.

reilig, i was just trying to help you get a bit of background on Fracking worldwide ok, im doing my best here. I'n mot glossin gover anything, i'm trying to help you out. NOT glossing over sh*t. There's a point to all of the above. Read it. It's only through our mistakes, that we learn as a species.

The regulation around fracking is a gray area, seeing as it's new here. I imagine stuff happens after the environmental impact study is completed. Fine gael and labour have been very quiet on the subject even when asked. Our government once again being proactive...in other words, not being helpful AT ALL.

You say "surely there are laws".

Ok, so....surely there were laws on building houses on flood plains during the boom years...surely there were laws protecting the environment in haulbowline...surely there were laws to prevent Fianna Fail making a snap decision on one night putting the country into crippling debt for generations and bailing out failed banks....surely there were laws to prevent government payoffs and corruption (the tribunals).

I'm sorry, but 'surely' is a typical Irish attitude that stinks of our 'ah sure it'll be grand', stupid retarded past and present attitudes.

i wish i had your confidence in Government to do its job properly reilig. I don't though.

Why don't you help out here, and ring the government up, and tell us what they tell you about the laws that are 'surely' in place, and what they're doing in relation to Fracking.

Oh, and there were laws in place in the places Southwestern energy Fracked in the US to say 'Don't ruin the environment with chemicals or words to that effect (Tamboran CEO's former company). Didn't stop them breaking those laws did it? Didnt stop a long running court case that;'s now happening there did it? Didnt stop their environment being ruined did it?

No. So 'surely' doesnt cut it anymore.

tuppence

reilig wrote: »

Are there no laws in ireland to regulate companies like this? There is a long history of mining and exploration in ireland, and especially in the Lough Allen Basin area (where I worked myself on a drilling rig many years ago) - surely there are laws and regulations already in place or that can be put in place in order to safeguard the environment????
.

This is from the report Impacts of Shale Gas extraction on the environment and Human Health, from the European Parliament which I linked to you earlier. Pg 77. (theres only about 4 pages..)

Existing mining laws in Europe and related regulations affecting mining activities do not take care of the specific aspects of hydraulic fracturing. There are major differences
between mining related regulations in European Member States. In many cases, mining rights are privileged over citizens’ rights, and local political authorities ofen do not have an influence on possible projects or mining sites as these are granted by national or state governments and their authorities.

Theres nothing to suggest that we are any different.

Basically they are saying theres loads of gaps and that theres no comprehensively regulations for fracking, mostly because it is such a new type of industry.

Look, We are all learning and we are reading reports, preferably peer reviewed and from the most reliable sources you can get and that where we are trying to make an informed decesion on.
If anything has shown us you dont take things at face value. We were asleep for too long. Our regulators in different areas have got it wrong in the past and still do so. This is a huge thing for them to expect to take.

We need to move away with the argument of for or against chemicals as this is loaded with misinformation and a bit of a red herring in my view.
Its about more tampering with the earth and the shown higher risk of earthquakes, its about water usage, its about radon levels in our soil, its about priortising one industry over another. Its about levels of container trucks on the roads with potential toxins and risk of accident and spillage. Its about noise pollution form those massive drills. Theres minimal money for our country out of this. And then its about values, priortising a dirty form of fossil fuel extraction with known risks to health and public safety over targets for renewable energy. And valueing the speculative quick buck with potential long term environemental and health damage There will be more people emigrating due to this if it comes in. And there wont be too many people coming to live or vist.

Perhaps you should go to the public consulation in carrick tomorrow, then go to the one by tamboran the week after. Thats about the best I can advise you can do.

tuppence

colrow wrote: »

Hi Reilig et al,

Hers a pic of the Clipper platform.

And if you look carefully you can see some poor persons house. That could be any of our houses in the next couple of years. What would that do to our house prices do you reckon.

reilig

You took bits of the question that I asked you and turned it around to suit yourself.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want information so that I can view both sides of the argument and make a decision for myself.

I also asked you if laws can be put in place to regulate it, but seeing as nobody can be trusted, well I guess they can't.

Personally, I cannot understand how the Irish Government are sitting back and allowing companies to come in and explore for gas. We should be following Norway's Oil Policy and Natural resource exploration should be done by the state - or at least contracted on behalf of the state. The government already handed over the rights to our biggest Natural Gas resource to Shell on the west coast and lost out in €Billions of revenue which could have been used to get us out of this recession

Now they are doing it all over again by handing rights over to Tamboran who's profits will only benefit the US.

frackingishell wrote: »

reilig, i was just trying to help you get a bit of background on Fracking worldwide ok, im doing my best here. I'n mot glossin gover anything, i'm trying to help you out. NOT glossing over sh*t. There's a point to all of the above. Read it. It's only through our mistakes, that we learn as a species.

The regulation around fracking is a gray area, seeing as it's new here. I imagine stuff happens after the environmental impact study is completed. Fine gael and labour have been very quiet on the subject even when asked. Our government once again being proactive...in other words, not being helpful AT ALL.

You say "surely there are laws".

Ok, so....surely there were laws on building houses on flood plains during the boom years...surely there were laws protecting the environment in haulbowline...surely there were laws to prevent Fianna Fail making a snap decision on one night putting the country into crippling debt for generations and bailing out failed banks....surely there were laws to prevent government payoffs and corruption (the tribunals).

I'm sorry, but 'surely' is a typical Irish attitude that stinks of our 'ah sure it'll be grand', stupid retarded past and present attitudes.

i wish i had your confidence in Government to do its job properly reilig. I don't though.

Why don't you help out here, and ring the government up, and tell us what they tell you about the laws that are 'surely' in place, and what they're doing in relation to Fracking.

Oh, and there were laws in place in the places Southwestern energy Fracked in the US to say 'Don't ruin the environment with chemicals or words to that effect (Tamboran CEO's former company). Didn't stop them breaking those laws did it? Didnt stop a long running court case that;'s now happening there did it? Didnt stop their environment being ruined did it?

No. So 'surely' doesnt cut it anymore.

colrow

http://www.rwe.com/web/cms/en/712084/rwe-dea/responsibility/fracing-in-conventional-natural-gas-reservoirs/faqs/


These people are the owners of the Platform, I do not work for them, or have any other interest in them, they seem open and above board to me.

Oldtree

I have a lot of information mainly on quarries in Ireland. My main concern is that the government while espousing our own and eu laws, there is next to no enforcement, and even when a council takes an enforcement issue to court and arrangement on the steps is made to circumvent the laws.

So no matter what the environment loses out to business in Ireland and I cannot see any positive movement on the enforcement side of things.

It will be interesting to see how the minister of the environment gets on with his review of the planning laws, will he get rid of the seven year rule as proposed?

frackingishell

tuppence wrote: »

We need to move away with the argument of for or against chemicals as this is loaded with misinformation and a bit of a red herring in my view.
Its about more tampering with the earth and the shown higher risk of earthquakes, its about water usage, its about radon levels in our soil, its about priortising one industry over another. Its about levels of container trucks on the roads with potential toxins and risk of accident and spillage. Its about noise pollution form those massive drills. Theres minimal money for our country out of this. And then its about values, priortising a dirty form of fossil fuel extraction with known risks to health and public safety over targets for renewable energy. And valueing the speculative quick buck with potential long term environemental and health damage There will be more people emigrating due to this if it comes in. And there wont be too many people coming to live or vist.

Amen to everything right there.

frackingishell

reilig wrote: »

You took bits of the question that I asked you and turned it around to suit yourself.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want information so that I can view both sides of the argument and make a decision for myself.

I also asked you if laws can be put in place to regulate it, but seeing as nobody can be trusted, well I guess they can't.

Personally, I cannot understand how the Irish Government are sitting back and allowing companies to come in and explore for gas. We should be following Norway's Oil Policy and Natural resource exploration should be done by the state - or at least contracted on behalf of the state. The government already handed over the rights to our biggest Natural Gas resource to Shell on the west coast and lost out in €Billions of revenue which could have been used to get us out of this recession

Now they are doing it all over again by handing rights over to Tamboran who's profits will only benefit the US.

reilig, i'm not the answer man- im not replying to anything you say to 'suit myself', so don't know what youre on about there. Im giving you a perspective as is everyone else. I tried to help you best i can so stop throwing it back at me because it doesn't have a section where i paint oil-paintings of Fracking companies to balance things out....

i agree with you on the Norwegian model and profits for us (if it ever happened) . unfortunately, we are a bit thick in this country when it comes to that stuff. Funny, when you consider how we're such cute hoors when it comes to other stuff...OR!!!! Maybe nationalising it would eliminate the bribes our politicians and those with power over approval get to their swiss bank accounts.

In fact, why else WOULDN'T they nationalise it? We need the money. Private swiss bank accounts and Irish politicians., mean seemingly ridiculous policies. Sure we don't get a penny out of the Shell to sea oil do we? I'm rambling now...but seriously, how can we have faith in our muppets in government???? It's pretty demoralising.

orangebud

been doing a bit of Google searching for the last half hour, can not find anything about fracking with out the use of chemicals. Haven't found any positive stories about fracking either

two interesting articles

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/aug/31/fracking-issues-resolve

http://technorati.com/politics/article/was-the-virginia-earthquake-related-to/

imo i would prefer to live beside a nuclear plant than have this happen in Ireland & im anti nuclear

reilig

frackingishell wrote: »

reilig, i'm not the answer man- .

Are you not curious to get answers? How can you devote so much time to a protest if you don't know everything. As I said, I like to know both sides before formulating an opinion.

On a further note, thanks to everyone for their information and their opinions today. I am somewhat more informed - but I'd still like to know more. Think I'll go to those info meetings in Carrick on Shannon. Hope they won't turn into protest meetings that wont allow those of us who want information to get it.

orangebud

be sure to tell us what went down at the meeting reilig

frackingishell

Of course i want answers- ive been trying to get them from my government but they wont give them to me. And ive found through my own research that the main guy wanting to do this in ireland is being sued in teh US for many millions for lying to them about Fracking. He also laughed at me and my country for the duration of a serious interview about a huge national issue.

I'll continue my quest for answers. And i'll continue to give people the benefit of what i've found out so far if they ask for it. Everything i've said to you so far has been the truth- bar the logical speculation.

So get off my back, and maybe be a little more graceful. Ive better things to do than write out paragraphs on bush and cheney, but you asked so i was good enough to give you some background, as noone has the exact answers on what youre looking for-thanks in part to companies that are PROVEN dodgy, and thanks in part to our suddenly secretive government.

Good luck at the meeting.

shadowninty

The reports of minor earthquakes from tracking are quote worrying. I'd also be very worried about water pollution.
That said I'd like to research it first.

tuppence

Hiya the Bush owner estimated there was 600 people at last nights public antifracking meeting In Carrick on Shannon. The place was teaming over with people, the overflow in side rooms arching to hear, people of every age and background. It was powerful to see.

Our policy makers need to step up and listen to this level of opposition.

corazon

I lived in NYC until recently and spent a lot of time in Pennsylvania and Upstate NY were the fracking debate is fairly heated. Communities seem to be divided on the issue with landowners who are benefitting from drilling at odds with anti frackers. If you drive a few miles on rural roads you will see pro- and anti-fracking signs everywhere. A lot of these areas are not very well off and you can clearly see economic improvement as huge sums of money are pouring in to areas that were very dead. NY has not approved drilling yet on their side of the state line and an EIS is due out next week. You can see a preliminary report here. I predict some interesting times ahead for Leitrim but so far the debate has more heat than light.

tuppence

corazon wrote: »

I lived in NYC until recently and spent a lot of time in Pennsylvania and Upstate NY were the fracking debate is fairly heated. Communities seem to be divided on the issue with landowners who are benefitting from drilling at odds with anti frackers. If you drive a few miles on rural roads you will see pro- and anti-fracking signs everywhere. A lot of these areas are not very well off and you can clearly see economic improvement as huge sums of money are pouring in to areas that were very dead. NY has not approved drilling yet on their side of the state line and an EIS is due out next week. You can see a preliminary report here. I predict some interesting times ahead for Leitrim but so far the debate has more heat than light.

Yes but at what cost. Havent we learnt the lessons? Its about sustainable development and not jeopardising what is already working and has the potential to work even better.
At Thursdays public meeting Councillor Martin Kenny sums it up.

He said tax incentives had helped bring a building boom, but the lesson from that was “a fast quick buck just does not work”.

He believed gas firms had met quarry owners and local trucking firms regarding potential for business. “They might think that in Leitrim we are poor, and maybe we are – but we are not cheap and we will not be bought off,” he said.

From todays Irish Times which covers a report on the Public meeting on pg 2
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0903/1224303429614.html

tuppence

Peaceful protest outside Leitrim CoCo offices, Monday 5th at 4.30pm to concide with councillors meeting with main company. All welcome. Want to focus on sustainable priorities.