When atheists go too far

iamstop

dvpower wrote: »

Not another atheist bashing thread...

It is interesting how people (non atheists) have to group together a bunch of people who are completely independent of one another. I've claimed atheism for over 10 years now, never once have I been to an atheist meeting or discussion group. I couldn't give a monkey's what other atheist think or feel regarding being atheist.

Seachmall

FTGFOP wrote: »

I knew of him only as a science writer until Creationism started to be taken seriously in the US. I see his current role as an inevitable response to the rise of Creationism.

Same here.

I agree with most of his points however I don't like the fact people seem to think he represents atheists (as if that's even possible). When people I've just met hear I'm an atheist I can see their eyes flicker to images of Dawkins.

squod

amacachi wrote: »

Are militant atheists the ones who scream Allah Ackbar when they blow themselves up or the ones who blow up abortion clinics? A completely BS term invented by people like you so you can feel better than at least one group of people.

Won't be long until pigs evolve wings and we can train them into becoming little pork bombers. Until then I'll be a monkey's uncle if anyone can convince me I'm a monkey's eh.... relative.

Elliemental

sensibleken wrote: »

Religion is comedy gold. who wouldnt mock it. If people say rediclous things theyre going to be ridiculed.

Ahh! George Carlin was a comedy genius. His "Religion is Bull****" routine was just exquisite. How I miss that old guy!

iamstop

FTGFOP wrote: »

I knew of him only as a science writer until Creationism started to be taken seriously in the US. I see his current role as an inevitable response to the rise of Creationism.

It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. I know that is cliche but seriously, how wrong and backwards would it be if in 100 or 200 years time creationism was the general consensus?

biko

http://www.godlessgirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/85.jpg

Militant Atheism hasn't killed anyone, Christianity and Islam has killed thousands.

Elliemental

Here it is, enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

KnifeWRENCH

amacachi wrote: »

Are militant atheists the ones who scream Allah Ackbar when they blow themselves up or the ones who blow up abortion clinics? A completely BS term invented by people like you so you can feel better than at least one group of people.

:rolleyes:
And this a completely BS post so I have no idea why I'm even bothering to respond to it, but I'm bored so I'll take the bait.

Did I ever say I approved of religious fundamentalism? Eh, no.
I dislike atheists who actively seek out to ridicule religious people and not just ridicule their beliefs. Say what you want about the Ayatollah or paedophile priests or whatever, but there are plenty of decent religious people in this world; what's to gain by insulting them and making them out to be inferior?

And you know full well what militant atheism is, so don't try and feign ignorance by pretending you didn't know exactly what I meant just so you could come and improve your thankscount here by making me out to be some sort of religious fundamentalist sympathiser.

And "people like me"? That deserves another :rolleyes:. And I don't feel like I'm better than anyone else, unlike Hitchens and many of his fanboys.
I'm not tarring all atheists with the same brush, just referring to a small subset of them.

Chuck Stone

Christopher Hitchens on mutilating children for Gods.

I highly recommend this as it's quite jarring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZTS6iVpSPI

wild_cat

squod wrote: »

Won't be long until pigs evolve wings and we can train them into becoming little pork bombers. Until then I'll be a monkey's uncle if anyone can convince me I'm a monkey's eh.... relative.

Your a creationist?

I'm just going to leave this thread right now!

TwoShedsJackson

http://mwillett.org/atheism/no-disrespect.htm

Your religious beliefs do not deserve special respect simply because they are religious and/or strongly held.

Seachmall

steddyeddy wrote: »

I agree if a religion does or says something which will cause harm it absolutely needs to be tackled but my problem would be criticising people who do no harm to me, others or themselves through their beleifs I have no desire to crticise how they live their lives.

The issue with beliefs as rigorous as religious ones tend to be is that they're rarely open to debate. People vote based on their beliefs but if they aren't willing to debate those beliefs it causes troubles and restricts advancements.

I've never come across any religious person who has tried to force their beliefs down my throat but I'm come across plenty that hold, and vote based on, beliefs on various topics so tightly they refuse to acknowledge any arguments against them.

Of course this problem isn't exclusive to religious beliefs but it generally doesn't help the matter when someone believes their opinion is God's opinion.

Note: when I say "Religion" I'm referring to organised religion, I know a few believers who don't follow a particular religion and are more than open to debate on all topics.

Logical Fallacy

Elliemental wrote: »

But those actions are inextricably linked to the beliefs.

So? Are we to then assume that all bad actions are linked to religious beliefs? People who don't believe in any god kill and rape and steal.

The only thing that is important is that they do these things, i don't give a **** about why.

If someone wants to believe the Universes was shat out by a Cosmic Iguana...let them...if they kill someone because they think that...then yeah, deal with them for their actions, not their beliefs.

iamstop

I have to go now but I'll close with this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uOQx9DxV8Y4/TJ2LofS5XBI/AAAAAAAAARk/sGApVze_Hg8/s1600/atheist_joke_card-p137872713349332234q6k5_400.jpg

Craebear

Does the ordinary "persecuted" christian have any problem mocking scientology? I bet they wouldn't have to think twice about it.

On the bat**** crazy meter scientology and christianity both share a 10/10. So christians, if you insist of believing this utter tripe don't expect any respect for it because in my book, you're ****in' mental.

*same goes for all religion*

Dravokivich

steddyeddy wrote: »

But does that make it right that dawkins does it?

anyone taking a stance similar to the example you provided, are always right as far as they are concerned and will agressively pursue that. i didn't condone what he did, as i also said "regardless of their beliefs." that was intended to include dawkins.

Logical Fallacy

iamstop wrote: »

Ugh, semantics. It's the beliefs that lead to the actions, or inactions that cause harm. Jehovah's not allowing life saving transplants, catholics following the church and not using contraception resulting in unwanted births and diseases etc

But i pretty much guarantee you are not naive enough to think that if there had never been a religion throughout the history of man, or if we woke up tomorrow and it was all done away with that we would all be sitting around holding hands and living in peace and harmony.

People who want to be ***** will be *****, they'll find a reason to do what they do regardless.

amacachi

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

Did I ever say I approved of religious fundamentalism? Eh, no.

Did I say you did? You know perfectly well why I said it, it's a term which is meant to mirror militant religionists.

I dislike atheists who actively seek out to ridicule religious people and not just ridicule their beliefs. Say what you want about the Ayatollah or paedophile priests or whatever, but there are plenty of decent religious people in this world; what's to gain by insulting them and making them out to be inferior?

You still haven't said what militant atheism is in your eyes. Is it just people who are dicks about it? If so it's a very slightly overly loaded term no?

And you know full well what militant atheism is, so don't try and feign ignorance by pretending you didn't know exactly what I meant just so you could come and improve your thankscount here by making me out to be some sort of religious fundamentalist sympathiser.

As I said, you know fullwell that it's a term purely used to try to paint atheists as boogeymen when no such thing exists.

And "people like me"? That deserves another :rolleyes:. And I don't feel like I'm better than anyone else, unlike Hitchens and many of his fanboys.
I'm not tarring all atheists with the same brush, just referring to a small subset of them.

Gonna have to get loads of ice, two burns for the price of one! The only reason why many atheists are objecting to other atheists who dare to roll their eyes at mysticism is because they know they can object to that and feel better than if they objected to religion because they're just oh so liberal. I don't object to people believing what they want, however I reserve the right to criticise their beliefs and when their beliefs deserve ridicule I'll do it if I feel like it.

Logical Fallacy

iamstop wrote: »

I have to go now but I'll close with this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uOQx9DxV8Y4/TJ2LofS5XBI/AAAAAAAAARk/sGApVze_Hg8/s1600/atheist_joke_card-p137872713349332234q6k5_400.jpg

Ah jpegs, internet discussion would suck without them.

Dravokivich

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I don't think Dawkins is too bad, actually; he's certainly arrogant but he's tolerable. "I don't call people idiots but I do think people's views are idiotic" - that's a fair enough viewpoint to hold. Now I wouldn't go out of my way to spread that message like he does but I definitely agree with his point about indoctrinating children.

that would be on par with blurting out an insult aimed at someone who is fat. er, no sorry, commenting on their phsyique and the lack of responibilty they've had for themselves...

:rollseyes:

Seachmall

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

People who want to be ***** will be *****, they'll find a reason to do what they do regardless.

But there are good people who are told by a "higher power" that using contraception is bad or receiving blood transfusions are bad.

If people did away with religion today it would not solve all the world's issues but it would make some easier to deal with and discuss on an intelligent level.

Einhard

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Religion will allow normally moral people do dispicable things.

So does patriotism, socialism, love...

Cú Giobach

Craebear wrote: »

Does the ordinary "persecuted" christian have any problem mocking scientology? I bet they wouldn't have to think twice about it.

On the bat**** crazy meter scientology and christianity both share a 10/10. So christians, if you insist of believing this utter tripe don't expect any respect for it because in my book, you're ****in' mental.

*same goes for all religion*

Spot on.
This is something many of the religious just don't get, a cousin of mine got involved in a small cult and the comments of some of the family were very very harsh. People just couldn't see that their religion can be seen to be as ridiculous as they see others.

pragmatic1

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

But i pretty much guarantee you are not naive enough to think that if there had never been a religion throughout the history of man, or if we woke up tomorrow and it was all done away with that we would all be sitting around holding hands and living in peace and harmony.

People who want to be ***** will be *****, they'll find a reason to do what they do regardless.

It'll never be peace and harmony, but I'd say it would be a whole lot better for millions of people around the world if it stopped tomorrow. People will always do horrible things, but a belief that you have a God given right to do horrible things is very powerful.

amacachi

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Spot on.
This is something many of the religious just don't get, a cousin of mine got involved in a small cult and the comments of some of the family were very very harsh. People just couldn't see that their religion can be seen to be as ridiculous as they see others.

I love going past a Novena as it finishes with all the stalls in the car park and people buying pieces of tat and think about how many of those same people would see someone in a headscarf and think or pass comment about how "mad" it is.

Logical Fallacy

Seachmall wrote: »

But there are good people who are told by a "higher power" that using contraception is bad or receiving blood transfusions are bad.

If people did away with religion today it would not solve all the world's issues but it would make some easier to deal with and discuss on an intelligent level.

Why? Removing the cause of an irrational thought does not insure the next though will be rational.

I think that is a hole i fell into myself in the past, so maybe i just have far less faith in people now but if you remove one thing then people will replace it with another.

Remove a faith system that allows you to do something you want to do and i would put good money you will head towards something else that, in your mind, gives you the same license.

I ****ing hate to Godwin a thread, but Hitler used all kinds of (later debunked) scientific theories to justify why he did.

I'm not being an argumentative dick here...i'm just pointing out that people who want to do things will justify them by whatever means they choose, remove one of those means and they will adopt a new one.

Such is human nature.

pragmatic1

Einhard wrote: »

So does patriotism, socialism, love...

To the extent of a sky daddy who loves you and controls your fate for an eternity ?

Logical Fallacy

pragmatic1 wrote: »

To the extent of a sky daddy who loves you and controls your fate for an eternity ?

Eeeek, argument fail. Not too many religions imply or belief that their "God" controls them...merely created them. Their fate is up to them - that's one of the key strengths of religions winning people over.

Seachmall

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Why? Removing the cause of an irrational thought does not insure the next though will be rational.

I think that is a hole i fell into myself in the past, so maybe i just have far less faith in people now but if you remove one thing then people will replace it with another.

Remove a faith system that allows you to do something you want to do and i would put good money you will head towards something else that, in your mind, gives you the same license.

I'm not saying it would 'cure' irrationality but it would force people to justify their positions better. Too many people around the world fall back on "it's in the bible" when questioned about their positions. They may fall back on other rationalizations but it will at least expose the irrational positions people hold to the masses.

We can't break down every foundation people use to rationalize their positions but that doesn't mean we shouldn't address them.

pragmatic1

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Eeeek, argument fail. Not too many religions imply or belief that their "God" controls them...merely created them. Their fate is up to them - that's one of the key strengths of religions winning people over.

Fate after they die. Hence the word "eternity".