RTE 2 Broadcasting in HD now

The Dark Knight

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Sky do the same. If the studio isn't HD then the game isn't. Must be a valid reason for it.

Maybe they don't want to show up their lack of investment in HD studios.....
May be seen as a weakness in the all conquering and perfect Sky :rolleyes:

subway

Comparing the rte and sky broadcast tonight of the super cup and rte seems ever so slightly slightly softer than sky. Colors more washed out too.
The scoreboard dog is also noticeably sd.

Technically, is there a difference?

Kensington

subway wrote: »

Comparing the rte and sky broadcast tonight of the super cup and rte seems ever so slightly slightly softer than sky. Colors more washed out too.
The scoreboard dog is also noticeably sd.

Technically, is there a difference?

Sky are running at 1920x1080 vs RTÉ at 1440x1080.
Sky are also running at about twice the average bitrate of RTÉ.

mossym

rte showing block noise now that the smoke has been let off in the stadium, it's minor but present

The Cush

subway wrote: »

Comparing the rte and sky broadcast tonight of the super cup and rte seems ever so slightly slightly softer than sky. Colors more washed out too.
The scoreboard dog is also noticeably sd.

Technically, is there a difference?

Kensington wrote: »

Sky are running at 1920x1080 vs RTÉ at 1440x1080.
Sky are also running at about twice the average bitrate of RTÉ.

Less bitrate available to RTÉ2 tonight compared to a Saturday/Sunday afternoon when neither RTÉjr nor RTÉ1 +1 are on air taking up some of the available capacity. Might be different after next Thur Sept 1st when Mux 2 is required to be on-air with RTÉ2 and RTÉjr/RTÉ1 +1, loads of capacity until new services are launched.

DeepBlue

Are today's GAA matches in Full HD or upscaled HD?
The minor match so far seems to be upscaled HD unless I'm mistaken. The studio coverage so far has also been upscaled HD.

STB

DeepBlue wrote: »

Are today's GAA matches in Full HD or upscaled HD?
The minor match so far seems to be upscaled HD unless I'm mistaken. The studio coverage so far has also been upscaled HD.

HD. RTE broadcast in HD in 1440x1080 res.

DeepBlue

Yep, now they're broadcasting in Full HD. Up until the 10th minute in the minor match they were broadcasting in upscaled HD.

The RTE guy that mans the button to switch between Full HD and upscaled HD probably suffers from narcolepsy and the unions won't allow him to be replaced by someone competent or else he's a blood relative of some bigshot in RTÉ and therefore untouchable - a bit like Ryan Turbridy. :pac:

The Dark Knight

DeepBlue wrote: »

Yep, now they're broadcasting in Full HD. Up until the 10th minute in the minor match they were broadcasting in upscaled HD.

The RTE guy that mans the button to switch between Full HD and upscaled HD probably suffers from narcolepsy and the unions won't allow him to be replaced by someone competent or else he's a blood relative of some bigshot in RTÉ and therefore untouchable - a bit like Ryan Turbridy. :pac:

Reckon its the union.....he is probably looking for more money due to the stress of RTE2 changing to HD!!!!

Stinicker

Fairly amateur editing work there on the previews of Dublin and Donegal, both Dublin's Leinster Final and Quarter Final against Tyrone were shown in High-Def yet they decided to show those highlights of them in SD with one or two close ups in HD, why not show the highlights in High-def when they clearly had the footage to do so. RTÉ are such amateurs. 2 secondary school geeks with the same gear would produce something massively superior to this.

seanp_25

I've noticed in the past few weeks that when RTE are showing something in full HD, there's a very narrow line to the right of the RTE TWO HD logo.

It's way over at the very right of the picture, the same height as the DOG. It's just one or two pixels from the edge of the picture, so most TV's mightn't show it as it's in the overscan area.

Seems to be a definitive way of telling if something is HD or upscaled SD (instead of subjectively trying to tell if the picture is extra crisp or not).

byte

seanp_25 wrote: »

I've noticed in the past few weeks that when RTE are showing something in full HD, there's a very narrow line to the right of the RTE TWO HD logo.

It's way over at the very right of the picture, the same height as the DOG. It's just one or two pixels from the edge of the picture, so most TV's mightn't show it as it's in the overscan area.

Seems to be a definitive way of telling if something is HD or upscaled SD (instead of subjectively trying to tell if the picture is extra crisp or not).

Yes, I noticed that wee line you speak of alright.

seanp_25

It got me thinking, why does overscan still exist on new HD TVs? I had to go into a setting on my Samsung TV and change from "16:9" to "Just Scan" to turn it off.

I thought this was only needed for older CRTs.

If the TV is overscanning, then you're actually getting a slightly upscaled picture all the time (image is being cropped to, say, 1900x1060 and then upscaled to fill the 1920x1080 pixels on your TV).

The problem isn't that you're losing a few pixels around the edge of the screen, it's that if you resize something to even make it one pixel larger or smaller, you lose significant amounts of sharpness and detail due to resampling methods (I think? Someone else might know better and can comment?)

Machinehead

byte wrote: »

Yes, I noticed that wee line you speak of alright.

I get that "wee line" also. Can't check right now without a HD programme, but on my 42" it will appear when I select a certain aspect ratio (overscan off). I think it shows up on 16:9 ratio. When I switch to "Auto" the little bar disappears.

NUTZZ

Does anyone know if the Ireland v Slovakia game on Friday will be shown in HD or just up-scaled?

An Tarbh

NUTZZ wrote: »

Does anyone know if the Ireland v Slovakia game on Friday will be shown in HD or just up-scaled?

well it's being shown in HD on Sky and since RTÉ are host broadcasters they should be broadcasting in HD if they're providing a HD feed to international broadcasters.

It did originally say on the RTÉ website that the Russian game would be in HD but that's been removed now and Sky's EPG is saying the game won't be in HD either.

*Edit* Now saying on RTÉ website that the match will indeed be shown in HD.

Machinehead

NUTZZ wrote: »

Does anyone know if the Ireland v Slovakia game on Friday will be shown in HD or just up-scaled?

Got this email from RTÉ this morning, comfirming what The Bull has already posted.
"I can confirm that the game will be shown in HD. Unfortunately from what I understand due to technical difficulties it is not possible to include the (HD) data on EPG on Sky or UPC. However if you look at RTÉ Sport on the RTÉ websiteunder Live Sport on RTÉ.ie as below, it tells you whether a programme will beshown in HD."
I does mention the game in HD here:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/sportontv.html
but not on this press release here (the one I looked at):
http://www.rte.ie/sport/2011/0803/rte_hd_sport.html

tolosenc

Is it in the plans that RTE 2 will ever broadcast solely in HD?

And why is the HD content 1080i and not 1080p?

The Cush

tolosenc wrote: »

Is it in the plans that RTE 2 will ever broadcast solely in HD?

And why is the HD content 1080i and not 1080p?

If the source material is HD I assume it will be transmitted as such otherwise it will be upscaled from the SD source material. Once the pre-recorded playout system is installed in RTÉ we'll see new season US series in HD as announced last month by RTÉ.

1080i vs. 1080p requires twice the bandwidth I believe. No broadcaster is using that I know of. The UK ruled out including 1080p as part of its DVB-T2 HD spec last year.

icdg

Machinehead wrote: »

Got this email from RTÉ this morning, comfirming what The Bull has already posted.
"I can confirm that the game will be shown in HD. Unfortunately from what I understand due to technical difficulties it is not possible to include the (HD) data on EPG on Sky or UPC.

Not sure what the point is there. RTÉ Two is not available in HD on either Sky or UPC, so why would they list it on the EPG. If/when RTÉ Two HD does become available on Sky or UPC it will be a seperate channel to RTÉ Two SD unlike on Saorview.

Sam Russell

icdg wrote: »

Not sure what the point is there. RTÉ Two is not available in HD on either Sky or UPC, so why would they list it on the EPG. If/when RTÉ Two HD does become available on Sky or UPC it will be a seperate channel to RTÉ Two SD unlike on Saorview.

That is not necessarily so, there is no RTE 2 SD, it is all RTE 2 HD. The SD version is made available to Sky and UPC, but the HD version is also available to them. There is nothing to stop UPC from adding the two muxes to their 'analogue' offering as two additional channels and the subscriber decoding them with a Saorview box or iDTV.

At some time, like last May 26th, RTE should begin to consider Saorview as THE service, and analogue as a legacy service, with all promo activity and schedules taking the lead with Saorview. They have yet to mention the existance of RTE News Now.

Minstrel27

Sam Russell wrote: »

They have yet to mention the existance of RTE News Now.

They have a few times that I can remember. For some news conference, an important Dáil debate and their pathetic coverage of Oxegen 2011.

icdg

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is not necessarily so, there is no RTE 2 SD, it is all RTE 2 HD.

That's only true on Saorview.

While all Saorview-approved boxes can view MPEG4 HD channels (downscaled if you connect to an SD TV via SCART), you cannot view an MPEG4 HD channel on an SD UPC or Sky box. UPC boxes don't pick them up at all, they are invisible. On Sky boxes they are listed in the EPG but cannot be viewed. So if RTÉ Two HD was made available on Sky/UPC, it would have to be parallel to RTÉ Two SD, on a separate channel on the EPG. Otherwise non-HD viewers would lose RTÉ Two. Nobody wants that.

The SD version is made available to Sky and UPC, but the HD version is also available to them.

They can't just broadcast it, they need permission from RTÉ. Otherwise it would be on UPC (at any rate) already.

There is nothing to stop UPC from adding the two muxes to their 'analogue' offering as two additional channels and the subscriber decoding them with a Saorview box or iDTV.

While that's an interesting idea, I don't see what UPC have to gain from it, other than confusing the viewer further. It might have the undesired effect of prolonging the life of UPC's analogue service beyond what UPC would like. It would act as a disincentive for viewers to switch to UPC digital. UPC's business is pay-TV, not free TV.

Sam Russell

icdg wrote: »

While that's an interesting idea, I don't see what UPC have to gain from it, other than confusing the viewer further. It might have the undesired effect of prolonging the life of UPC's analogue service beyond what UPC would like. It would act as a disincentive for viewers to switch to UPC digital. UPC's business is pay-TV, not free TV.

What UPC have to gain from putting Saorview unaltered onto a channel (two channels when mux2 starts having content) is as follows:-

1. There is no confusion, it is a signal on the cable that the subscriber can use if it can be tuned by their equipment. If they do not have the equipment they do not get to see it.

2. They can claim to have RTE 2HD, RTE News Now, and other channels as they are added.

3. They can migrate their other analogue (basic service) channels onto DTT and free up bandwidth so they can migrate other (encrypted) channels onto HD.

4. No-one gets the basic service for free, they pay for it. It acts as a limited 'free' multiroom for subscribers.

5. It would allow UPC to terminate the analogue service in line with ASO, (and free up bandwidth) more cleanly than any other way as they would simply lining up with RTE NL and follow the industry. Their STB offering could be lined up to give both Saorview and their own flavour of digital.

I think it would be a winner for them. Four or five muxes would carry Saorview and all their analogue channels and free up more than 10 channels for more encrypted digital content. I cannot understand why they do not do it. Saorview is a 'must offer' from RTE, and would cost then (next to) nothing.

Kensington

Sam Russell wrote: »

What UPC have to gain from putting Saorview unaltered onto a channel (two channels when mux2 starts having content) is as follows:-

1. There is no confusion, it is a signal on the cable that the subscriber can use if it can be tuned by their equipment. If they do not have the equipment they do not get to see it.

2. They can claim to have RTE 2HD, RTE News Now, and other channels as they are added.

3. They can migrate their other analogue (basic service) channels onto DTT and free up bandwidth so they can migrate other (encrypted) channels onto HD.

4. No-one gets the basic service for free, they pay for it. It acts as a limited 'free' multiroom for subscribers.

5. It would allow UPC to terminate the analogue service in line with ASO, (and free up bandwidth) more cleanly than any other way as they would simply lining up with RTE NL and follow the industry. Their STB offering could be lined up to give both Saorview and their own flavour of digital.

I think it would be a winner for them. Four or five muxes would carry Saorview and all their analogue channels and free up more than 10 channels for more encrypted digital content. I cannot understand why they do not do it. Saorview is a 'must offer' from RTE, and would cost then (next to) nothing.

That's a logistical nightmare and doesn't make any sense from UPC's point of view.

When they're ready to offer SaorView content, they'll encode it and inject it into the network themselves.

Once they feel analogue is no longer viable for them, they'll stop offering it.

It would also require duplication, as the Saorview muxes would have to be put on the cable system as DVB-T for Saorview boxes and DVB-C for paying subscribers.

Machinehead

The Cush wrote: »

1080i vs. 1080p requires twice the bandwidth I believe. No broadcaster is using that I know of. The UK ruled out including 1080p as part of its DVB-T2 HD spec last year.

I remember reading around the time of the NHK World HD launch a few months ago that Super HD had started in Japan. Not sure if it's actually 1080p & I think NHK are the only network using the system. The slow take up is due again to bandwidth issues.

mossym

The Cush wrote: »

The UK ruled out including 1080p as part of its DVB-T2 HD spec last year.

didn't stop them broadcasting it though, and causing trouble with TV's that weren't expecing on the fly resolution changes from the tuner

seanp_25

Machinehead wrote: »

I remember reading around the time of the NHK World HD launch a few months ago that Super HD had started in Japan. Not sure if it's actually 1080p & I think NHK are the only network using the system. The slow take up is due again to bandwidth issues.

BBC had some Wimbledon 2011 games broadcast in 1080p.

Sam Russell

Karsini wrote: »

It would also require duplication, as the Saorview muxes would have to be put on the cable system as DVB-T for Saorview boxes and DVB-C for paying subscribers.

All subscibers are paying subscribers.

The current 'basic' package (analogue) is carried on a pay basis and allows subscribers to pass it around the house to allow ordinary TVs to receive it. This gives a limited multiroom facility. By adding Saorview, those with compatible TVs or STBs can receive it freely. By migrating their current analogue channels to DTT, they could free up about 15 channels currently carrying those channels.

Logistically, it would cost UPC next to nothing to carry Saorview as is and yield bandwidth if they carry all current 'in the clear' channels that way. To carry the same channels on their encrypted system, every TV in a subscribers house would require to be equipped with a UPC STB. That would be challenging, particularly as they only get €5 per TV.

It would be an edge on Sky, and be quite popular once ASO becomes well understood.