Formula 1 2011: Round 06 - Monaco Grand Prix

hoarder

For me Hamilton is a massive draw for F1 fans. He is also one of the best two drivers today in my opinion in terms of out and out talent and raw speed, Vettel being the other (obviously this is subjective). I am not a particular fan but dont mind seeing him doing well because he is exciting and talented. He has the most fantastic car control and arguably if the tyres were not as soft as they are it would play into his hands, as his style works them very hard.

However, I feel that since he let his father go (would love to know what happened between them) that he has become less controlled as a person and as a racer, and it has been to his disadvantage. I think he appears more prone to error now, more on edge, and suffering from a lack of mind management.

mickdw

How did rosberg end up behind schumacher today up to when schumi retired

Top Dog

mickdw wrote: »

How did rosberg end up behind schumacher today up to when schumi retired

Ummm - he didn't

Rosberg finished in 11th, Schumacher was classified 22nd having retired at 32 laps.

Andrew76

Top Dog wrote: »

Ummm - he didn't

Rosberg finished in 11th, Schumacher was classified 22nd having retired at 32 laps.

Schumacher was ahead until he retired. I think it was just because he was forced to pit early (because of the front wing damage at the first corner that killed his rear tyres) and was out of sync with the rest. Rosberg might have passed him later on when it was his turn to be on fresher tyres.

Tea 1000

mickdw wrote: »

How did rosberg end up behind schumacher today up to when schumi retired

Schumacher passed him on track, when Rosbergs tyres were gone off.

dastardly00

Just in case anyone didn't see it yesterday, EJ and DC ended up in the pool with Vettel during the post-race celebrations.

DC really didn't want to be thrown into the pool! He made every excuse he could think of! :pac:

..... no, no , no, I have my white jeans on....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LliFXvZ7kzs

Top Dog

Anyone any idea what happened to Schumachers car to cause it to grind to a halt right by the pit entry?

Andrew76

Top Dog wrote: »

Anyone any idea what happened to Schumachers car to cause it to grind to a halt right by the pit entry?

A fire inside the airbox according to this.

GiftGrub100

If you didn't see the F1 forum and enjoyed the above clip, watch the longer clips on youtube, never knew Eddie Jordan loved the water so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU9i4OkabEY

Around 6.15 something interesting is said that the presenters find very funny.

mickdw

Top Dog wrote: »

Ummm - he didn't

Rosberg finished in 11th, Schumacher was classified 22nd having retired at 32 laps.

If you read my post properly, I clearly said - up to when schumacher retired.

So what is so confusing about that?

steve9859

Andrew76 wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on Webber this year? Very nice chap but getting dominated by Vettel in the same machinery.

Really like Webber. Really sound guy with his feet on the ground. He just simply isnt as good as the top guys. He reminds me a lot of Coulthard (and not just cause of the jawline!!). He, like coulthard was, is a solid team driver who will win the odd race, consistently pick up points, but almost always will be second best to someone. Coulthard won 13 races, and had 3 or 4 third place finishes and 1 second place in the championship. I would bet that Webber finishes with the same kind of record (maybe less wins but is probably a deeper pool of talent in F1 now). Then becomes a commentator for aussie TV, and generally well liked guy. If that is how it pans out for him, I dont think he will be that disappointed!!

Top Dog

mickdw wrote: »

If you read my post properly, I clearly said - up to when schumacher retired.

So what is so confusing about that?

If you look at the time I posted it might give you a hint - was in the process of waking up so speed read

vincenzolorenzo

steve9859 wrote: »

Petulant and childish as well as arrogant. It's all going to his head. *sshole!! I've never been a massive fan, but I have never disliked the guy either. Until now. As long as he keeps this "me against the world" mentality he is going to continue to p*ss off the stewards and the other drivers.

+1. I admired hamilton in his debut season cos I thought he drove incredibly well for a rookie. But i've grown to dislike him intensely in the intervening years and after his behaviour in Monaco he really did show himself up as the being petulant and childish.

Andrew76 wrote: »

Losing a lot of respect for Hamilton this year, his attitude getting even worse of late. He seems to think just because he "tries his best" on track that he should be given the right of way when trying to pass or that he deserves victories every week. His raising the hand when finally getting past Schumacher was typical of this and his comments about Massa and Maldonado both turning into him were laughable - in neither case was he anywhere near along side for them to see him. You'd expect those crazy moves from a rookie. His public slating of the team again was very poor form, question decisions and give out all he wants behind closed doors - not on live tv. Seems he can't get a handle on his emotions in and out of the cockpit which will ultimately only cost him and the team.

In general he's a very good overtaker but his moves on massa and maldonado just weren't on. Sure he was only up to massa's rear wheel at Loews ffs and not much further ahead on Maldonado. He seems to have this sense of entitlement that just irritates me hugely! And he just lets himself down in that interview with the BBC. Complete tit :mad:

Ghost Train

GiftGrub100 wrote: »

If you didn't see the F1 forum and enjoyed the above clip, watch the longer clips on youtube, never knew Eddie Jordan loved the water so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU9i4OkabEY

Around 6.15 something interesting is said that the presenters find very funny.

I guess it relates to eddies wig

Watching it back David has his arm wrapped around the railing very early and doesn't have much to say, you can see he knows they're going to try get him into the pool

Crasp

Ghost Train wrote: »

I guess it relates to eddies wig

Watching it back David has his arm wrapped around the railing very early and doesn't have much to say, you can see he knows they're going to try get him into the pool

I heard Jake pissing himself when I was watching it live, but I missed the bit just before it, now I know why he was laughing

frostie500

It’s been a while since I posted any thoughts I have following a race but after a superb Monaco Grand Prix I think that…..

This was the best race in Monaco in years! Whereas in the past Monaco has been known for its lack of overtaking and runaway leaders this year’s edition was undoubtedly the most exciting race in the Principality in years. With drivers battling hard at the front, overtaking in the midfield and lots of strategy at play throughout the field this was a race that showed just how superb Formula 1 is in 2011.

The last two races, Barcelona and Monaco, were always likely to be the harshest test of the new regulations and the new Pirelli tyres. Could the sport produce good racing on these notoriously difficult to overtake circuits? The last week has affirmed just how successful the regulations have been in succeeding their pre-stated goals of improving the show and producing exiting racing.

After the fantastically close and competitive Spanish Grand Prix, last weekend’s race in Monaco continued where Barcelona left off. Right from the start of the race the battling throughout the field was thrilling. With lots of wheel to wheel racing and numerous successful, and unsuccessful, overtaking maneuvers this race added a thrilling fight for the win to the usual glitz and glamour of Monaco.

The red flag prematurely ended a great fight for the win The only negative of the race was that the late race red flag robbed fans of the spectacle of what was sure to be the most intense final eight laps in Monaco since the 1982 race. Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button were running nose to tail when they came across a gaggle of drivers set to be put one lap behind the leader. The midfield runners were consumed with their own fights and were unwilling to concede an inch to their rivals as they let the leaders through.

Ultimately there was little surprise when an accident ensued. Unfortunately for the fans this crash involving four drivers led to the late race red flag which robbed the fans of the true spectacle of a late race fight for the win.

Even though Vettel was leading the race with only a handful of laps left there was doubt as to who would actually stand on the top stop of the rostrum. Button, running third, had the freshest tyres and had easily closed on Alonso and Vettel and while it would have been very difficult for the McLaren to find his way past both his rivals there is little doubt that between him and Alonso there was the potential for a late race change of positions.

Strategic variety made this race thrilling The variety of strategies throughout the field in 2011 has been one of the key differences between this year and previous seasons. Obviously the Pirelli tyres are clearly the key element to this development and Monaco proved to be no exception, even if some of the variety was assisted by a mistake by Red Bull at Vettel’s pit stop.

On lap 16 the Red Bull stormed into the pit lane and there was mass confusion outside the Red Bull garage. The team has quite clearly been the slickest in the pit lane throughout the last year and as a result it was exceptionally surprising to see the team rattled. Vettel lost time and in the confusion was put onto prime tyres instead of options in the stop.

This mistake was to prove the making of Vettel’s race and instrumental in him winning the race. The reigning champion had planned to make an additional stop but the race played out perfectly to let him make the single stop. A mid race safety car and the late red flag allowed Vettel’s tyre to cool down during the race and be replaced before the race restarted.

Button, three stopping, had looked to have jumped Vettel prior to the safety car after a stunning second sector when the former champion maximised the advantage of the super-soft tyres and opened a commanding 15s lead at the front of the field. The 2009 Monaco winner stopped just before the safety car and nullified his advantage over Vettel.

While everyone expected the Red Bull to peel into the pit lane he stayed out on track, ultimately surprising everyone by single stopping.

Alonso was running third and because Button still needed to switch to the harder prime tyres it seemed that the race was perfectly placed for all three drivers to make their final stops and battle to the flag.

Button was first to dive into the pits for his final set of tyres. Unfortunately for Englishman both Alonso and Vettel would not make another trip into the pits. The race panned out with Vettel’s lead being closed by Alonso and with Button catching the pair hand over fist. The strategy battle that played out at the front of the field was thrilling and showed how even though overtaking was possible on Sunday track position was still the key factor.

Even with a significant speed advantage track position is still key at Monaco With the race entering its closing stages Vettel was clearly hamstrung by his ailing tyres but even though Alonso and Button had closed down the German with ease it was far from a foregone conclusion that either would be able to find a way past.

Prior to the late race red flag memories of the 1992 Monaco Grand Prix, when Nigel Mansell closed in on Ayrton Senna by four seconds per lap, came flooding back to many. Senna managed to hold Mansell at bay, just as Vettel was doing on Sunday, but with the late race halting fans were robbed of the spectacle of seeing three of the world’s best drivers going toe to toe for the victory.

Changes to cars should not be allowed during a red flag The battle at the front of the circuit was blunted by the red flag. Not only did it mean that there was a delay to the thrilling battle it also meant that teams were allowed to change the tyres on their cars.

The key weakness to Vettel quite clearly his tyres and when the Red Bull driver was able to make, what effectively was, a free pit stop there was little doubt as to who would win the race.

Alonso and Button’s key advantage was immediately taken away from them and Vettel was given an easy run to the victory. The fact that drivers were able to change tyres and, in the case of Lewis Hamilton, have their damaged cars fixed made a mockery of this race.

The irony that cars are placed in parc ferme conditions from the end of qualifying yet are able to, presumably, get a complete rebuild during the race is quite startling. It is unfortunate that this loophole in the regulations came to light but hopefully it can be closed and this situation can be rectified so that races red flagged can still have fluidity when they resume.

The accidents will lead to changes at Monaco Monaco has a special place on the calendar with every driver enjoying the challenge that driving around the street circuit presents. Unfortunately the weekend was marred by some near misses and bad crashes.

Sergio Perez suffered a sizeable crash coming out of the tunnel. The Mexican lost control of his Sauber as he crested the hill and his car bounced over the bumps that have developed in recent years. He lost the back end of the car and it snapped into the Armco barriers leaving Perez a passenger as he headed for the barriers protecting the walls at the chicane.

Suffering a sizeable crash and concussion meant that there was little option but for Perez to spend a night under observation in hospital. Following his first points scoring finish in Spain Perez was clearly exceptionally confident heading into the weekend and getting through to Q3 showed just how much progress he is making in his rookie season.

The fact that Nico Rosberg narrowly avoided a similar crash in FP3 showed just how dangerous this section of the track can be. That is not to say that I believe, as some writers have stated in recent days, that Monaco is an antiquated circuit or that its place no longer deserves to be on the calendar.

It is clear that something will need to be done at this area of the circuit and that the possibility of accidents such as these, or indeed recent ones that befell David Coulthard and Button, needs to be minimised.

Whether this is done by moving back the cranes, which the barriers protect, is probably not sufficient. The track surface is what is causing the issue and it is this that should be looked at in the near future.

There is no need for drastic changes at Monaco but the fact that Vettel’s pole lap was a new lap record could play a crucial role in the arguments from people that changes need to made to the circuit.

amacachi

I assume the red flag rules are something to do with being allowed to change the car in changing weather conditions.

Just out of interest, does anyone know what Canada is meant to be like on the Pirellis? Obviously it's been hard on tyres recently but so has Monaco. Wonder if the reasons for the toll taken on tyres may be different in each place but I don't know.

Glico Man

amacachi wrote: »

I assume the red flag rules are something to do with being allowed to change the car in changing weather conditions.

Just out of interest, does anyone know what Canada is meant to be like on the Pirellis? Obviously it's been hard on tyres recently but so has Monaco. Wonder if the reasons for the toll taken on tyres may be different in each place but I don't know.

From what I remember (so probably wrong ) Canada is hard on tyres and brakes. Most of the corners at Montreal are very hard braking corners so I wouldn't be surprised to see a few lock up their brakes and flat spot their tyres so that could add another element to the race. Hammy has been particularly bad this season for flat spotting.

Love Canada, always one of my favorite races. Other than Spa, it's the one track I want to visit.

amacca

frostie500 wrote: »

This was the best race in Monaco in years!

hope they don't mess up a winning formula too much when they consider rules/regulations changes next season

frostie500 wrote: »

The red flag prematurely ended a great fight for the win The only negative of the race was that the late race red flag robbed fans of the spectacle of what was sure to be the most intense final eight laps in Monaco since the 1982 race.

totally agree.......I felt sick when they said they could work on the cars and that included changing tyres - did not necessarily want to see Vettel lose it but wanted to see the fight and wanted to see him live with the consequences of choosing to stay out from early on on those tyres......not receive a get out of jail free pass......would have been a hell of an achievement if he did

---

from not really liking him much I have to admit I'm becoming a Vettel fan which is unusual for me because I usually root for the underdog.


having said that hope Vettel fails to score points soon so its not a runaway championship for him

Ironically, as good as the racing has been the drivers championship looks like it could be put to bed tragically early this season?

amacachi

aaronh007 wrote: »

From what I remember (so probably wrong ) Canada is hard on tyres and brakes. Most of the corners at Montreal are very hard braking corners so I wouldn't be surprised to see a few lock up their brakes and flat spot their tyres so that could add another element to the race. Hammy has been particularly bad this season for flat spotting.

Love Canada, always one of my favorite races. Other than Spa, it's the one track I want to visit.

Yeah I know Canada is usually bad for tyres but so is Monaco, yet this year it was fine. It's one of those odd things that a low-grip surface can either be very hard or soft on tyres, same with the high-grip ones. I know Monaco and Montreal wouldn't be too grippy but I was surprised at how easy Monaco were on the tyres this year.

amacca

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah I know Canada is usually bad for tyres but so is Monaco, yet this year it was fine. It's one of those odd things that a low-grip surface can either be very hard or soft on tyres, same with the high-grip ones. I know Monaco and Montreal wouldn't be too grippy but I was surprised at how easy Monaco were on the tyres this year.

this could be way off the mark but I was wondering if the new tyres could be more susceptible to wear on very high speed fast flowing type corners than last years tyres...maybe the lateral g..side slipping going through long high speed corners affects these tyres a little more than braking hard in a straight line into a tight corner and going at a relatively slow speed through it (assuming you dont lock a brake and flat spot it)

maybe the necessarily "lowish" cornering speed at mirabeu, portier, rascasse, noghes did not affect these tyres as much

seems to me if they were designing these tyres to wear at a certain rate then they would design them to wear at that rate on the types of conditions prevalent at the more typical/numerous tracks on the calendar - perhaps its not surprising that the tyres didnt wear as expected, monaco not being one of those typical tracks?

then again....what I've written above could be and probably is just ill informed ramblings

amacachi

amacca wrote: »

this could be way off the mark but I was wondering if the new tyres could be more susceptible to wear on very high speed fast flowing type corners than last years tyres...maybe the lateral g..side slipping going through long high speed corners affects these tyres a little more than braking hard in a straight line into a tight corner and going at a relatively slow speed through it (assuming you dont lock a brake and flat spot it)

maybe the necessarily "lowish" cornering speed at mirabeu, portier, rascasse, noghes did not affect these tyres as much

seems to me if they were designing these tyres to wear at a certain rate then they would design them to wear at that rate on the types of conditions prevalent at the more typical/numerous tracks on the calendar - perhaps its not surprising that the tyres didnt wear as expected, monaco not being one of those typical tracks?

then again....what I've written above could be and probably is just ill informed ramblings

Just had a thought and may be well off the mark :pac: For Mercedes in Monaco the tyres were killed due to poor traction and I noticed in Spain (off the top of my head, possibly elsewhere) that traction was where the tyres were worst. I'm wondering if the extremely high downforce aided the tyres in traction for most teams while on other tracks so far there's been a few traction zones on low-ish downforce set-ups that may be having the effect. If what I've said is right then one would expect Montreal to be awful on tyres subject to management.

God I can waffle on a tangent. :pac:

freestyla

frostie500 wrote: »

....but the fact that Vettel’s pole lap was a new lap record.....

that was amazing pace by Vettel 1:13.556.. remember staring at sure must have working kers and drs and what else??

almost a second off kimi's and schumi's previous 14:4s :eek: