EDISION mini argus combo got back 7 day epg.

swoofer

they may not be encrypted but if they mess with the stream after the official launch and it buggers up quite a few combo boxes it might as well be encrypted. I dont think RTENL should get away with the flimsy excuse "non certified". These boxes worked fine during the test and lo and behold with the official launch they get bricked. If you consider the prog info is quite useful and quite a minor detail it should not beyond the wit of the people responsible for DTT fixing it, ie it should take all of 2 mins, its just a piece of code after all.

I have emailed every email address on the RTENL website and if more of us did the same they might sit up and DO SOMETHING.

GB--

Apogee

They aren't going to change the stream for a small number of non-certified receivers. If you want to complain, complain to Edision.

simatoel

Apogee wrote: »

They aren't going to change the stream for a small number of non-certified receivers. If you want to complain, complain to Edision.

But you can see GB's point. It worked fine just before launch. What exactly was changed and why? Did it add functionality to 'approved' boxes, or did it make any difference to them? I'd love to see a hard core technical reason for the change, what it was exactly (I think FT was on the right track with extended code characters) why it was necessary, why it has to stay. etc. Then we could ask edision to change their firmware to compensate.

Mr McBoatface

It's not just affecting the Edison and other similar combo receivers, my Mediaportal HTPC's which grab the EIT data to populate the EPG are also suffering. The problems only started just after RTE One+1 and RTE JNR where added. In my case I'm getting big gaps in the EPG and mix-up EPG info like RTE news will have the program details of Home & Away

All was fine during the Engineering test phase and the Public launch "trial" phase it's only happing since the full launch a few weeks back, surely it would be a hell of a lot easier to switch back to what the had before. It won't affect the the certified boxes and will make life alot easier for those who invested in equipment which worked (including during the public trial period) until the recent change. Lot's of people who have these combo boxes and the likes are some of RTE greatest defenders on these forums, It would be a nice gesture on the part of RTE to fix the problem and save all the hassle.

At least I can use xmltv access to digiguide to generate an EPG but others are not so fortunate.

Apogee

simatoel wrote: »

But you can see GB's point. It worked fine just before launch. What exactly was changed and why? Did it add functionality to 'approved' boxes, or did it make any difference to them? I'd love to see a hard core technical reason for the change, what it was exactly (I think FT was on the right track with extended code characters) why it was necessary, why it has to stay. etc. Then we could ask edision to change their firmware to compensate.

It's a bit like the Panasonics in the past which worked OK initially, but then fell over because they weren't fully compliant when RTÉNL changed the flags.

You simply don't have the weight of numbers to get them to change. Put pressure on the manufacturer instead who has a commercial interest in selling more receivers. Realistically, the best you can hope from RTÉNL is that they might supply you with the info as to what exactly they changed and then pass that onto the box makers.

If you're going to wait for RTÉNL to change, you'll be waiting a long time I reckon.

Sam Russell

I've noticed that channel 8 RTE 1 +1 is showing up as scrambled. The programme display, but the encrypted flag is on. I emailed RTE NL a few weeks ago but got no reply.

kierank01

simatoel wrote: »

But you can see GB's point. It worked fine just before launch. What exactly was changed and why? Did it add functionality to 'approved' boxes, or did it make any difference to them? I'd love to see a hard core technical reason for the change, what it was exactly (I think FT was on the right track with extended code characters) why it was necessary, why it has to stay. etc. Then we could ask edision to change their firmware to compensate.

We do need to find out what was changed, but the whole point of having a certification process, is so that rtenl can change something, knowing that all certified boxes will be able to cope with that change.

fat-tony

Sam Russell wrote: »

I've noticed that channel 8 RTE 1 +1 is showing up as scrambled. The programme display, but the encrypted flag is on. I emailed RTE NL a few weeks ago but got no reply.

The Service Descriptor Table contains an "encrypted" flag on RTE One+1 at the moment (18:00). RTE Jnr is showing as not-encrypted. I would assume RTENL are doing this so that something will come up on the receiver as there are no video, audio, MHEG or Teletext streams in the Program Map Table for RTE One+1 at the moment. They will switch those settings around once it comes up to 18.45 - 19.00 when RTE One+1 comes on air.

19:30 - As I thought: RTE One+1 came up with the flag set to not-encrypted and RTE Jnr reverted to encrypted flag plus no video/audio or other streams.

simatoel

kierank01 wrote: »

We do need to find out what was changed, but the whole point of having a certification process, is so that rtenl can change something, knowing that all certified boxes will be able to cope with that change.

And thats fine for new adapters of certified boxes, but early adapters, who bought now useless MPEG2 DTT boxes, Tvs with MPEG2 tuners, nearly useless Neotion cams with no HD, and so on , it's these users (enthusiasts?) who are often the biggest promoters of new technology, making the initial investments when there was no approved spec. Is it too much to ask that a technical bulletin be issued from time to time outlining changes in the stream. A rider that 'these changes will not require any reprogramming of saorview approved receivers' would suffice, while alerting us anoraks that changes may be needed. I dont expect my Edision box to retune satellite channels when they are shifted, but I do expect the BBC and others to publish their frequency changes. Perhaps RTENL could publish the changes made to their stream and the satellite streams, whose synopsis data is still readable, if only as a courtesy.

hadit2here

i got a reply from RTENL, but just someone saying they will try to find out what has changed, and get back to me ... that was a week ago !

Over a year ago I emailed Edision, and they did reply to me(not a very good answer mind you). In their reply they CC'd info AT abel.tv and theo AT ibec.de but I am not sure why ?!?

as a matter of interest, how do you guys analyse those streams ? If we record to USB does it record everything that is actually in the stream ie EPG info etc ?

swoofer

I got a reply from the Edison Greek address and it said with the latest software version loaded it would fix the prog info button.... it doesnt but what it does do is clean up the menu's ie makes them HD. There arre 2 versions in the rar file, one for SD and one for HD. I used the HD one. NB It resets the box so save your channel list first. I forgot but can do a re-scan with eyes closed now.

Here is the link.

http://www.edision.gr/downloads.html

And if it works for anyone .....

I am going to go back and say it did not work.

gb--

Macy0161

I'll try and have a look tonight, although it has the "IP" in the file name whereas I've the receiver before that, so I'm a bit suspect about using that actual update. I admit it's a while since I've done an update (it wasn't broke, so I didn't fix it) - but I thought there used to be two different firmware updates, or does anyone know am I ok to go with "IP" ones?

hadit2here

Thanks GBCULLEN

i'll try that tonite also ....


Macy0161, not sure about IP versus non IP versions ....

hadit2here

i tried it but still the same

one thing to note, in my case i took a backup first, but after the upgrade, the channel restore did not work. It never gave an error during the restoring the channel list but after reboot came the error "no channel list" .... so had to do a rescan

this could have had to do with the image i had before (an unofficial one i experimented with)

Actually i think this latest firmware is worst that what I had ... i think it tends to freeze abit when changing channels and you change to an encrypted channel

hadit2here

anybody get any reply from Edision re the EPG problem ?

simatoel

Nothing since GBCullens Greek update. Actually The HD version of this , version 1.3.45, is very nice, lots of little improvements on older versions, PVR playback is incorporated into the file manager, one stop for images, MP3 and recorded streams. The character set problem with TG4 is no more, signal info is displayed on the channel info bar, and the whole interface is pin sharp. Picture and sound remain on when you go to the menu, including program organiser, which was not the case on older versions.
If I remember, there was a bootloader change in version 1.1.74, channel lists saved from then on will be readable, but upgrades to that version onwards requires a rescan, as they cant read older channel lists. If you updated to 1.3.42, the latest from Edision Germany, (many haven't), then you will be spared a rescan as you can reload your program lists from a 1.3.42 channel backup. Still no synopsis though. I note also that there are errors in the program guide for RTE1. Previously, RTE+1 displayed 'program not available' for 'Fair City' and some others, due to some payment dispute. now the PG for RTE is also displaying this instead of 'Fair City', and its not an Edision problem, so there appears to be some teething trouble in the program guide department.

hadit2here

Pity. Emails I sent to edision.gr were returned with permanent failure !

hadit2here

Got reply from Edision

"Yes we are aware of the problem and we will try to fix it in future ugrade."

so fingers crossed

hadit2here

Is this problem also on the Edision Argus VIP2 ?

watty

simatoel wrote: »

And thats fine for new adapters of certified boxes, but early adapters, who bought now useless MPEG2 DTT boxes, Tvs with MPEG2 tuners, nearly useless Neotion cams with no HD, and so on , it's these users (enthusiasts?) who are often the biggest promoters of new technology, making the initial investments when there was no approved spec.

Actually that's nonsense as the MPEG2 TVs, MPEG4 "cams" and Boxes without HD are all obsolete technology and anyone doing the most basic research in 2006 would have concluded MPEG4 + HD as minimum and maybe MHEG5. By Feb 2008 it was official it was MPEG4 + HD + MHEG5.

Some enthusiasts and early adopters promote "new technology" but usually it's have a spec, a service and stuff in ordinary shops that makes "new technology" work.

What did "early adopters" do for OS/2, Beos, Maemo, Meego, Transputer, Archimedies ARM based PC, Sirius /Victor PC?

Everyone launching DVB-T over the last couple of years is having MPEG4 and HD as minimum spec. Now DVB-T2 and MHEG5 is getting more traction.

Every TV or box with CI+ (ordinary CI, the slot for a CAM, is obsolete) has MHEG5 too. All will be HD and MPEG4 (as well as MPEG2 backward compatibility). Some will be DVB-T, DVB-T2(supports DVB-T), DVB-c or DVB-S2 (includes DVB-S2).

Some people set up inside the last 4 years PCs with sat cards and DIDN'T buy DVB-S2 cards. (available since 2006). Now they claim it's BBC's fault they can't get HD from BBC (switched to DVB-S2 from DVB-S, as was always intended).

There are "early adopter" / Enthusiasts. Also there are people that rush out too soon, or don't research and buy basically junk because it's cheap.

Picnic box (Product dumped because Service cancelled, hence below cost). Never intended for a new rollout.

Many Combo boxes are barely operable. None do Freesat or Soarview properly. They are for a different market.

Neotion "Cam". Intended as a quick fix for pay TV operators to switch from MPEG2 to MPEG4 on existing platforms to save money or double number of channels. Could only ever be SD, never HD and only works for a hybrid originally MPEG2 service, never intended for new rollouts as a proper DVB MPEG4 flag means the existing MPEG2 TV or set-box will never tune/store the channel, thus the Neotion card has no channel to re-encode!

simatoel

watty wrote: »

Actually that's nonsense as the MPEG2 TVs, MPEG4 "cams" and Boxes without HD are all obsolete technology and anyone doing the most basic research in 2006 would have concluded MPEG4 + HD as minimum and maybe MHEG5.

No one who experimented with now semi-redundant equipment is looking for a refund. Retailers were only too happy to sell MPEG2 TVs from 2006 right up to the present. The questions being posed re. the missing synopsis are generally from enthusiasts, and a little respect for those who are willing to experiment with their own resources is all that is asked. You were present at an RTENL information session where the notion of invoking the 'fit for purpose' clause in the sale of goods legislation was mentioned, to protect consumers from opportunistic retailers who continued to sell Mpeg2 Tvs long after 2006. There was very little product or information at that time, and only MPEG2 Tvs for sale in the shop, so it was always going to be a set top box or adapter solution. No one is complaining that the stuff they bought then now requires a STB, we knew that all along. We are not looking for sympathy, just information. IF Edisdon come good on an upgrade, all will be well. There is a market for a combi box with saorview approved and a satellite receiver, but in the meantime we have to use whats available, with all the limitations implied.

watty

The only combi box worth having is one that's UK HD compatible or ideally "Freesat HD" Certified on Satellite and Irish TV compatible, ideally Saorview compatible. Actually it's a tiny market. Such a box is of interest to less than 30% of households in Ireland and almost no-one outside Ireland.

It's more probable that a high end "Freesat HD" PVR will add a small amount of SW to be Saorsat compatible as that is an incredibly minor change.

Don't expect much from "bottom end" of market Combo boxes that have no MHEG5 and are basically uncertifiable for either system. Those boxes are not mainly for an Irish market but for a small (but much larger than Ireland) continental market.

It's up to Edison to read the nordig spec. Unlike UK which uses secret D-book RTE is using an open published spec.

swoofer

@hadit2here, what email did you use to get such a good reply? If a few more emailed german edision we may get faster fix.

I had to go greek and only got that new software 1.3.45, which I think is unofficial but nice. I went back to them a few times and in the end I was referred to a greek site that was a waste of time.

@watty, have RTENL fully implemented the nordig spec now or does it allow them to change things for evermore?

and what is so good about MHEG5? ie I am getting lost

gbcullen

hadit2here

i had emailed the greek guys, http://www.edision.gr/contact.html

they came back to me looking for a bit more info which I just sent to them this morning.


so maybe give them a couple of days before hassling them too much.

hadit2here

Just an update ...

they are a bit annoyed that so many people are emailing them ... after all they never guaranteed that it would work outside of Germany

However they are hoping to get a fix. The software is written in China and so the fix has to come from there ... they could not give a guarantee as to when it would be fixed

hadit2here

ok i got this update from them ... I just done a very quick test and it seems to work fine ... can someone try it out and confirm and post back here ...

the attached file just needs to be renamed to .zip and then use winzip to extract the abs file

swoofer

well done, works a treat, just had a quick look. Did you get it from Germany?? I will have to tell RTENL that it is fixed as they were looking at a fix for edision as well or should I stay stumpf!!

gbc--

hadit2here

Ah thats good.

I got it from Greece, but apparently the software is done in China.

Not sure if you should say anything to RTENL; they done something to knock out lots of boxes including DVBViewer, but they gave me a very unhelpful reply when I emailed them about changes they made ...

I suspect Edision just made a small change to allow for inaccuracies in the RTNL stream(ie Edision compensated for RTENLs bug .... big discussion on this thread about duplicate eventids, but not 100% sure that that was screwing up the Edision

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056318166&page=2


I just hope RTENL will not be making alot more changes ....


Happy times again for the moment anyway

swoofer

i will stay quite, and well done again, i like that argus!!

gbc

hadit2here

even the Irish Fada is fixed