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Have you ever been ridiculed for your beliefs?

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    #62
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    nullzero wrote: »
    How am I ridiculing people based on my comments about religion?
    I said I feel religion is a waste of time and I don't believe in it.
    I then said I would never ridicule somebody who chooses to believe in religion.
    There is a clear statement there telling the reader that I am not ridiculing people for their religious beliefs.
    If you think that there is some way that could be seen as ridicule then you should go back, read it again and pay attention this time before you get up on your high horse.

    You're so desperate to be "right".
    You came here saying certain people deserve to be ridiculed.
    Then you try to accuse me of hypocrisy and in your last post your'e falsely stating that what wrote about religion could be viewed as ridicule which makes you a hypocrite seeing you're defending the right of people with religious views to be free from ridicule when you're more than happy to ridicule someone for believing in CT's.

    I've already explained how it could be construed as ridicule (note: see 'fairies').

    I'm not desperate to be right - I just don't like when people tell lies which is essentially what conspiracy theorists do.

    My belief is that conspiracy theorists should be ridiculed when they are known to be spouting falsities. I've already told you the difference between religion and conspiracy theories. Religion serves a purpose whereas conspiracy theories do not and if anything do more bad than good.


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    #63
    Undergod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    Di0genes wrote: »
    Comedy and ridicule are important.

    Believes should be able to stand up to mockery and laughter.

    And furthermore no one should be so po faced that they should not be able to accept a degree of mockery and laughter.

    Beliefs shoudl not be respected to the point that it is illegal and immoral to mock them.

    I firmly belief that the church's authority in Ireland was kept in place by the inability to mock them.

    Ridiculing beliefs is important.

    And let's remember, there's a difference between ridiculing a person and ridiculing their beliefs.


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    #64
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Jive, I'm at a loss as to how you can condemn conspiracy theories but have no problem with religion. Belief in a conspiracy does not automatically line the pockets of those who sell DVD's, much in the same way as giving money to a church on Sunday isn't paying off child molesters. Personally, I'd have more time for someone who talks about a conspiracy than I would for someone who talks about an invisible space pixie.

    Oh, and there's plenty of conspiracies that have been proven. Wikileaks exposed a few, most notably the US attack chopper that killed some reporters in either Iraq or Afghanistan. There was a conspiracy to cover it up, and it was exposed.

    There will always be people who ridicule beliefs. The only thing you can really do about it is ignore those who ridicule you, or be able to argue your point in a manner that would explain why you believe.

    Earlier in this thread was a perfect example:
    Wolfe Tone wrote:
    Mentioned UFOs to a mate the other day, cue much laughter.
    Tuxy wrote:
    How can anyone argue against the existence of flying objects that may not be identifiable?
    It's all about how you describe these things. If, in the above example, Wolfe Tone said to his mate that he saw an alien space ship, it would generally be expected that he wouldnt' be believed. But if he said he saw something flying in the sky and didn't know what it was, then that can begin a conversation as to what it could possibly have been.

    That's the problem with conspiracies (and religion) in general. Lots of people automatically assume a position and argue from that point. And the more fervent you are that you're right, the more others who don't share your belief will want to prove you wrong. It's a truly bizarre situation that results in people being anonymous on the net, yet still not wanting to lose face.

    The whole point of conspriacy theories is that you pretty much don't know if it's real or not. Sometimes you can come up with an answer, but most of the time it's just speculation. If people can keep in mind that they may not always be right, they can try and find the answers instead of trying to force their belief onto others.


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    #65
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    jive wrote: »
    I've already explained how it could be construed as ridicule (note: see 'fairies').

    I'm not desperate to be right - I just don't like when people tell lies which is essentially what conspiracy theorists do.

    My belief is that conspiracy theorists should be ridiculed when they are known to be spouting falsities. I've already told you the difference between religion and conspiracy theories. Religion serves a purpose whereas conspiracy theories do not and if anything do more bad than good.

    You spouting an awful lot of falsities there yourself Jive. Do I have your permission to ridicule you?


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    #66
    Di0genes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    nullzero wrote: »
    I agree with the above, and I never argued that people should be humourless and take offence at everything. Look back over my posts, pay attention and you'll see as much.



    Nullzero you are humourless and take offence at every perceived slight.

    Your attempt to bait me was what I called pathetic.

    See?


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    #67
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    humanji wrote: »
    Jive, I'm at a loss as to how you can condemn conspiracy theories but have no problem with religion. Belief in a conspiracy does not automatically line the pockets of those who sell DVD's, much in the same way as giving money to a church on Sunday isn't paying off child molesters. Personally, I'd have more time for someone who talks about a conspiracy than I would for someone who talks about an invisible space pixie.

    Oh, and there's plenty of conspiracies that have been proven. Wikileaks exposed a few, most notably the US attack chopper that killed some reporters in either Iraq or Afghanistan. There was a conspiracy to cover it up, and it was exposed.

    There will always be people who ridicule beliefs. The only thing you can really do about it is ignore those who ridicule you, or be able to argue your point in a manner that would explain why you believe.

    That's the problem with conspiracies (and religion) in general. Lots of people automatically assume a position and argue from that point. And the more fervent you are that you're right, the more others who don't share your belief will want to prove you wrong. It's a truly bizarre situation that results in people being anonymous on the net, yet still not wanting to lose face.

    The whole point of conspriacy theories is that you pretty much don't know if it's real or not. Sometimes you can come up with an answer, but most of the time it's just speculation. If people can keep in mind that they may not always be right, they can try and find the answers instead of trying to force their belief onto others.

    By giving their websites hits you are lining their pockets, yes. If you go to church and give the church money then yes you are essentially funding an organisation which has been shown to protect rapists which I also wouldn't agree with. I have a lot of problems with religion but the fact of the matter is it is inherent in society now and you can't do anything about it. It's a story for another day but like I said at least it serves a purpose. Sitting around on your laptop debating about subjects the person has little knowledge about (e.g. how many engineers were familiar with the steel that was in the twin towers and how much heat would be generated from a plan crash and also what structural damage a commercial plane would cause and trained to work out this kind of stuff - I'll hazard a guess at none)

    My problem with conspiracy theorists on the internet is this : they cannot admit they are wrong. They are proven wrong but just choose to ignore it and continue to spread lies. Wikileaks exposes war crimes among other things, and they actively going out seeking documents and releasing them for the world to see. Conspiracy theorists are typically uneducated in the field they are arguing and it shows. From reading this forum they appear to lack common sense and as a result I can't take any conspiracy theorists seriously. I'm sure there are some sensible and well knowledgeable ones but the conspiracy theorist community as a whole is filled with pseudo-intellectual morons.

    My opinion isn't going to change so I'll stop posting here as I think I've made my point clear.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You spouting an awful lot of falsities there yourself Jive. Do I have your permission to ridicule you?

    Yeah feel free to highlight them and ridicule them as you wish. If not then don't mention them and not elaborate.


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    #68
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,336 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Jive banned for one week.


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    #69
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,486 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Di0genes wrote: »
    Nullzero you are humourless and take offence at every perceived slight.




    See?

    Are you serious?

    I said previously that people shouldn't take offence all the time, read over my posts.

    As for your "See?" Comment,
    you were asking me if I lie eSouth Park, I didn't see what the relevance was to this topic, another poster said that because South Park ridicule people for their beliefs your question was valid.
    I then said, (and you have yet to correct me on this) that you were trying to see if I'd say the things I said about ridiculing people for their beliefs and then in the next breath say that I like South Park, which would cast me in the mould of a hypocrite.

    I'm not humourless.
    You're just assuming I am.
    I simply stated that ridiculing people because of their beliefs is wrong, which is true.

    I haven't taken offence to anything you've said to me.
    You attempted to bait me with the South Park thing and that was a pathetic attempt at baiting me, I wasn't in the least bit offended.


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    #70
    Di0genes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    nullzero wrote: »
    What a statement.
    This is of course in your own opinion.
    We can't make people agree with us, we have to accept that others will take a different viewpoint, otherwise you'd spend your life taking offence.

    When I see somebody come out with a statment like that highlighted above it does serve to make the person making the statement look like quite a judgemental person lacking somewhat in terms of tact.


    I for instance don't agree with religious beliefs of any kind. The fact that religious beliefs are to my mind highly illogical and the fact that people allow themsleves to be dicatated to by their religious leaders is from a neutral perspective tantamount to a form of insanity does not make me feel that all or any people with religious beliefs are deserving of ridicule.

    The world we live in is enriched by the diversity of beliefs and peoples all around us. It should be obvious to see ridiculing somebody for any reason which might cause offence is highly immoral and something to be avoided by those wishing to be part of an understanding, informed and inclusive society.
    nullzero wrote: »
    Are you serious?
    I said previously that people shouldn't take offence all the time, read over my posts.
    You also said
    Ridiculing people for their beliefs is wrong, plain and simple.
    I don't feel that anyone is deserving of ridicule.

    I can't keep track of your paradoxical statements.

    As for your "See?" Comment,
    I'm not humourless.
    You're just assuming I am.

    You're not shattering that illusion of mine.
    I haven't taken offence to anything you've said to me.
    You attempted to bait me with the South Park thing and that was a pathetic attempt at baiting me, I wasn't in the least bit offended.


    No nullzero you're not humourless, you're about to embark on a three week sell out tour of Vulcan comedy clubs.


    (that's a joke btw)


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    #71
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,486 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    I'd like to state that the long winded posts I wrote previously were discussing the morality of ridiculing people for their beliefs.

    I'd also like to state that having a sense of humour about your beliefs is what I would regard as critically important.
    Making fun of something when everyone involved is consenting is fine, purposely going out to hurt somebody through ridicule is something different altogether.

    I just wanted to clarify my stance, this post is not made in response to anyone or with the intention of being argumentative.


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    #72
    ed2hands
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    jive wrote: »
    By giving their websites hits you are lining their pockets, yes. If you go to church and give the church money then yes you are essentially funding an organisation which has been shown to protect rapists which I also wouldn't agree with. I have a lot of problems with religion but the fact of the matter is it is inherent in society now and you can't do anything about it. It's a story for another day but like I said at least it serves a purpose. Sitting around on your laptop debating about subjects the person has little knowledge about (e.g. how many engineers were familiar with the steel that was in the twin towers and how much heat would be generated from a plan crash and also what structural damage a commercial plane would cause and trained to work out this kind of stuff - I'll hazard a guess at none)

    My problem with conspiracy theorists on the internet is this : they cannot admit they are wrong. They are proven wrong but just choose to ignore it and continue to spread lies. Wikileaks exposes war crimes among other things, and they actively going out seeking documents and releasing them for the world to see. Conspiracy theorists are typically uneducated in the field they are arguing and it shows. From reading this forum they appear to lack common sense and as a result I can't take any conspiracy theorists seriously. I'm sure there are some sensible and well knowledgeable ones but the conspiracy theorist community as a whole is filled with pseudo-intellectual morons.

    My opinion isn't going to change so I'll stop posting here as I think I've made my point clear.



    Yeah feel free to highlight them and ridicule them as you wish. If not then don't mention them and not elaborate.


    Hi Jive, i don't want to ridicule you, rather would like to educate you or at least give you my opinion on Wikileaks. I may be leaving myself open to ridicule myself on this but what the hey ....

    Wikileaks may be a psy-ops CIA fronted and controlled "limited-hangout of information" organisation. One of it's founders was none other than Cass Sunstien (currently the administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in the Obama administration. Anyway thats by-the-by:)
    My point being that in the geo-politics world, nothing (or very little) is as it seems and alternative theories and discussions are worthwhile and essential, however far-fetched the subject. It's our right.


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    #73
    uprising2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    Rds1989 wrote: »
    One of my closest friends mentioned in passing that he believed 9/11 was an inside job, straight away my other 3 friends ganged up on him calling him insane if he believes that sort of stuff and referring to Reptllians and Jim Corr. I said i believed it was too giving them some of the facts, they didn't even attempt to engage with it. Have you ever experienced this sort of reaction?

    RDS you will always be ridiculed for any alternative belief, I had a quick look through this thread first 3 pages or so, but you need thick skin to talk about any alternative type of thinking, some of it I don't get and never will, some I do and some is inbetween.

    I have stated her numerous times that I believe in God, I say it to anybodys face aswell, I believe in some conspiracies, I believe 9/11 was an inside/outside job committed by America/Israel to further their goals.

    Get a copy of "Operation Northwoods" its a conspiracy fact, declassified top secret document that shows USA's joint chief of staff's were about to cause terror in the USA to get the public behind a war with Cuba, and very possibly
    USSR, here just incase your a lazy git I'll fetch it for you.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/NorthwoodsMemorandum.jpg

    http://www.rense.com/general18/harm.htm

    But never let anybody tell you how to think, many here will say "what a hypocrite, the church has him brainwashed", they haven't, I hate the church and general religion, religion is used to divide and conquer.
    My family are not religious, I wasn't ever sent to church, I say what I have to say about whatever I feel, I have been told I'm off the head, but in a nice way, I have my reasons to believe in God that I will not discuss here, but as humaji said earlier he has no belief in a space pixie, I think "so what", thats his entitlement (althogh I wouldn't like to be him when he's being dragged screaming saying "Sorry God, honest"). That last bit you can take as me being a little sarcastic.

    As I said you need a bit of thick skin to get through life with alternative thoughts, you will always get the Jim Corr or Alien prodding remarks, sometimes I have reacted to them, well a lot, but the new me here will be a good boy from now on, promise mods!(they probably have more belief in blood sucking alien gods dressed as Caroline Corr than that last bit), but I will be a good boy!;)

    OP just believe what you want, you own your thoughts, not anybody else, some may call you crazy, some may agree, others will be somewhere in between.

    I dont know where this post will land as I havent read to the last page and only skimmed over the first 3 avoiding most the big post's like this one, but yes if you have any idea's away from the norm you will always be critizised even from those, or especially from those closest to you, either don't mention it if you can't handle a bit of stick, or do and don't back down, but try do it in a nice way.

    Espinolman thats sick what happened to your head at 18, almost killing you for having alternative thoughts, a lot of the time I must admit I don't get some of your theories, but WTF?, leaving you for dead because you think different than them.

    Anyway welcome to the nuthouse OP, you can leave at any time and go back to what it was you were doing, but don't get too bogged down in conspiracies, they can take over your mind and lead you to very strange places you never knew exist,(EDIT) and probably don't!


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    #74
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    uprising2 wrote: »
    RDS
    Welcome back. It's not the same here without you so try and keep the head in future :pac:


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    #75
    Di0genes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    espinoalman what were the beliefs that got you so badly injuried?


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    #76
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    uprising2 wrote: »
    Espinolman thats sick what happened to your head at 18, almost killing you for having alternative thoughts, a lot of the time I must admit I don't get some of your theories, but WTF?, leaving you for dead because you think different than them.
    If what he says is true, then it is indeed horrific. I hope and presume the attackers would have done jail time.


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    #77
    uprising2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Welcome back. It's not the same here without you so try and keep the head in future :pac:

    Haha thanks Bomber, I will, I'm a changed man(I had a shave).


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    #78
    uprising2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    Di0genes wrote: »
    espinoalman what were the beliefs that got you so badly injuried?

    It doesn't really matter does it?, there are pricks that will do that to you if they want to be bullies and think you are a soft target or simply outnumbered, it happens all the time.

    A fella I know in Finglas got blasted a few nights ago, he's not into anything criminal activity whatsoever, was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's part of life around these parts, it was mistaken identity.


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    #79
    Di0genes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    uprising2 wrote: »
    It doesn't really matter does it?, there are pricks that will do that to you if they want to be bullies and think you are a soft target or simply outnumbered, it happens all the time.

    A fella I know in Finglas got blasted a few nights ago, he's not into anything criminal activity whatsoever, was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's part of life around these parts, it was mistaken identity.

    I'm curious to know what you say and and do that makes violence such a sudden reaction.


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    #80
    uprising2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    Di0genes wrote: »
    I'm curious to know what you say and and do that makes violence such a sudden reaction.

    Sometimes it takes you to be walking down the street and say hello to a group of scumbags, then smack bam, head cracked and a few idiots running away laughing.

    This doesn't answer your question, but no matter what his beliefs he shouldn't have got his head cracked.

    It doesn't really matter what his beliefs are or were at the time, I'm 99% sure he would have still got the same treatment even if he had the exact same beliefs as them.


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    #81
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    uprising2 wrote: »
    It doesn't really matter what his beliefs are or were at the time, I'm 99% sure he would have still got the same treatment even if he had the exact same beliefs as them.
    In that case, he wouldn't have been suffering due to his beliefs. I am also curious as to what beliefs would set off a bunch of scumbags to nearly kill somebody.


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    #82
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Rds1989 wrote: »
    One of my closest friends mentioned in passing that he believed 9/11 was an inside job, straight away my other 3 friends ganged up on him calling him insane if he believes that sort of stuff and referring to Reptllians and Jim Corr. I said i believed it was too giving them some of the facts, they didn't even attempt to engage with it. Have you ever experienced this sort of reaction?

    Rds people are conditioned to not question, at least not beyond the parameters of what is "acceptable". They are given the illusion of thinking as long as they don't upset the apple cart. The hostility your friend received is part of this conditioning. It makes people fearful to express their own conclusions (right or wrong) that are outside these parameters because most are subject to the brainwashing that makes them automatically ridicule any ideas that the media doesn't discuss. I don't know you or your friends but I'd be shocked if your friend didn't know a lot more about 9-11 that the other lads. Jim Corr isn't 100% on the facts but I guarantee you he knows a lot more about 911 than your mates who were taking the piss.

    The reason for this conditioning is that conspiracies do happen. I'm sure your mates never heard about Gladio, Operation Susannah, Iran-Contra and so on. That doesn't mean everything is a conspiracy, including 911 but if they can put a negative label on someone who genuinely questions official stories they can beat them into silence effectively and they can act unchallenged. Overall the media is useless, if anything is a propoganda tool. You just have to look at how little they have questioned the whole Bin Laden fiasco. The CIA's annual black budget is over 1 TRILLION dollars. God knows what they use it for.


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    #83
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    I have been threatened and then ridiculed by i think it is the MIB on a free energy forum yesterday .


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    #84
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    espinolman wrote: »
    I have been threatened and then ridiculed by i think it is the MIB on a free energy forum yesterday .
    Espinolman, can you give us a little more information about the time those idiots attacked you? I'd be more interested in the events that lead up to the attack rather than the attack itself, which I'm sure you don't enjoy thinking about.


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    #85
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Espinolman, can you give us a little more information about the time those idiots attacked you? I'd be more interested in the events that lead up to the attack rather than the attack itself, which I'm sure you don't enjoy thinking about.

    http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=86494#86494

    Here is the link to the post , it is very subtle the way he is doing it , but many posters on that forum will be afraid after reading that .
    I had to delete posts there just before that , because they went berserk when i posted it .
    Some of us have solved the bessler wheel , we have been told not to tell anyone .


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    #86
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    espinolman wrote: »
    http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=86494#86494

    Here is the link to the post , it is very subtle the way he is doing it , but many posters on that forum will be afraid after reading that .
    I had to delete posts there just before that , because they went berserk when i posted it .
    Some of us have solved the bessler wheel , we have been told not to tell anyone .
    I meant the physical attack you mentioned earlier in the thread, but I'll have a look at that link anyway.


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    #87
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    I meant the physical attack you mentioned earlier in the thread, but I'll have a look at that link anyway.

    Oh sorry , i thought you meant the previous post .


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    #88
    Di0genes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    espinolman wrote: »
    Oh sorry , i thought you meant the previous post .

    Yeah we're still waiting.

    seriously espinolman you're killing us here.


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