Shale Gas - Mod note post#117

frackingishell

I did oldtree- trying to organise a few quid to go over, and bring the camera gear. Should be fun too. You heading over?

Pete M.

IRLGas wrote: »

Thanks for sharing the link.

Trying to raise awareness and gather info where I live (North Leitrim)!

---

www.irelandsgasland.comIRLGas

Gasland is showing in Sligo Town in the Trades Club on Saturday 30th from 5pm.

http://www.facebook.com/TheTradesClubSligo

getz

as i said in post 35,i live in this area,poulton le flyde[near blackpool,]there is a protest meeting to-day in the town center,

tuppence

I know this has come around before but for those of you concerned pls sign and share with friends and family.
snip

Macha

<mod>Sorry tuppence, we don't allow petitions.</mod>

tuppence

Macha wrote: »

<mod>Sorry tuppence, we don't allow petitions.</mod>

Hows about a new excellent web site with loads of factual peer reviewed research reports on fracking, resources to print out including posters and the like. has the p word in there as well if people want to sign it...;)

http://frackingfreeireland.org/

There is on this site the recent European parlimant report calling for a full cost benefit analysis of any area proposed so as to assist on decesion making.
http://frackingfreeireland.org/politics-related-info/europe/

Macha

A report on fracking recently came out of the US. Would anyone have an idea of its implications?

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2011-08-12/gas-aug-13

tuppence

Now Im not an authority on this , I am learning as I go. Hopefully it shoudlnt have real clout not in comparison with the independent report that has been commissioned and is following it. It may well muddy the water of that genuine report by the Americain Environmental Protection Agency when it comes on stream.
So thats an negative outcome of its own if it does happen

The link you gave even referred to the main critism of this report as been the conflict of interest of many of the members on the panel. Even then they gave a damning warning to their own expanding industry and their imperative to catch up and try to get regulations in order because as you probably know the industry were historically given a free rein before this in America.

Moreover, with anticipated increase in U.S. hydraulically
fractured wells, if effective environmental action is not taken today, the potential environmental consequences will grow to a point that the country will be faced a more serious problem

Here is the critism of bias
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/09/fracking-panel-challenge_n_874251.html

The EPAs report is the main report and its preliminary findings I believe arent due out til next year. I think they were findng it hard to get information about their chemicals from some of the companies and had to go the legal route with them.
http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwater/uic/class2/hydraulicfracturing/index.cfm

I would have thought that the Americain model is not one to be replicated and indeed we need to learn from them. :eek: Some of those lessons might be that large corporations can never be expected to regulate themselves if the common good is at risk. The industry has a new term in Leitrim that they say they will follow here. It called 'very best practice'.........They say they want to do this because they care. They say that our concerns are paramount in their minds, that it will cost them more but they say..."what the heck". (thats a serious quote). They say that will Frack without chemicals. However Professor Ingraffea from Cornell University has come out and called their bluff as according to him they will need at least 5 chemicals at the very least for the process to be successful. Id much rather believe the word of an eminent expert in the field rather than a paid employee of a multinational with financial interests at play.

But the other lesson that maybe I am learning more and more is that risks are, but should not be allowed to be taken for jobs and profit in a recession. Risks are being and should not be taken for the sake of having an independent source of energy. (especially when there are other sources out there)

I would have thought we have learnt many lessons here in the last 10 years and I would have hoped we can get our priorities right and to me that means protecting our populations health. And if that means showing courage to follow the lead of France et al of banning it, so be it.

tuppence

Macha wrote: »

A report on fracking recently came out of the US. Would anyone have an idea of its implications?

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2011-08-12/gas-aug-13

http://www.alternet.org/environment/152000/outrage_erupts_after_energy_committee_evaluating_dangerous_gas_drilling_practice_is_stacked_with_%27experts%27_on_industry_payroll?page=1

tuppence

Do you want to learn more about how fracking could effect your livelihood, local area and health?

Mr Helmut Fehr German politician and respected authority on fracking is in the Mayflower Centre, Drumshanbo,
Co Leitrim at 3pm on Saturday the 20th August.

Come along, learn more about it.
Spread the word

garth-marenghi

tuppence wrote: »

Do you want to learn more about how fracking could effect your livelihood, local area and health?

Mr Helmut Fehr German politician and respected authority on fracking is in the Mayflower Centre, Drumshanbo,
Co Leitrim at 3pm on Saturday the 20th August.

Come along, learn more about it.
Spread the word

Got to this yesterday. A really good informative event with 2 excellent presentations, good questions and importantly was well attended. About 100 there and this despite it only been advertised on thursday. People are definitely getting organised and informed on fracking. Keep up the good work!

tuppence

Shale Gas Extraction Information Exhibition

at 1pm on Wednesday 24th August until 4pm Friday 26th, at Leitrim Sculpture Centre, Manorhamilton, Co. Leitrim.

This exhibition presents a range of information about the hydraulic fracturing process (fracking) and intends to provide an impartial view of some of the issues surrounding the proposed extraction of shale gas in Ireland.

The exhibition will include various EU and National reports on fracking, recent films on the effects of fracking, a range of web links, research tools and information, posters and prints.

What is fracking? See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

An artist led project, in association with local discussion groups and LSC.

tuppence

Fracking article on Prime Time tonight. Came down to Leitrim Manorhamilton and Drumshanbo on Tuesday. Also talked with the main company. Small studio discussion too.

Brace yourselves for the company line of wanting to do right by us....reasonabale sorts.

tuppence

For those that didnt see it, last thursdays primetime. Bout 14.55 mins into it.

http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1109605

tuppence

Lough Allen Conservation Society
is hosting a public information/discussion on the issue of 'Hydraulic Fracturing ('fracking') for shale gas in the Northwest Carboniferous Region*
Location - The Bush Hotel, Carrick-on-Shannon, Co.Leitrim.
Date/Time - Thursday, September 1st, 8pm

This is a public meeting with a short presentation and an open discussion.

All public representatives and interested groups including IFA, Waterways Ireland, Coillte etc.. have been invited to attend.

This issue is causing great concern among all sections of local communities.

Oldtree

came across this today, FIE requesting info from the gov:

http://www.friendsoftheirishenvironment.net/friendswork/index.php?action=view&id=914

the relpy when it comes should be informative and give the offical view point.

tuppence

Extremely well attended public meeting in Carrick on Shannon, by Lough Allen Conservation Society. Closer to 600 as estimated by the manager of the hotel, people teaming out the doors.
Pg 2 in todays Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0903/1224303429614.html

Peaceful demo outside council buildings at 4.30 pm Monday 5th. All welcome.

willowfarm

oil and gas companys control the world, its funny to think that all car manufactures alrady have hydrogen driven vehicles so there is really little need for fossil fuels now and in the future except, from water we can provide power no harmful waste just h20 the only problem is oil and gas and goverments dont want it why???

Oldtree

from the irish times here yesterday:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0906/1224303587751.html

Gas hunt will not involve chemicals, firm says
THE CHIEF executive of a gas exploration company which hopes to extract shale gas in the Lough Allen Basin yesterday reiterated the company’s undertaking that chemicals would not be used in the process
Richard Moorman

In reply to questions Mr Moorman admitted that no big multi-scale fracking had ever been done before with only water and sand and no chemicals. However, he said: “I intend to be the one who shows that it is no big deal.”

Begs the question that when all the infastructure is in place and the new, untested and innovative approach which has got this project through the planning phase, what will happen if the new, untested and innovative approach dosn't work, what then?

Capt'n Midnight

willowfarm wrote: »

oil and gas companys control the world, its funny to think that all car manufactures alrady have hydrogen driven vehicles so there is really little need for fossil fuels now and in the future except, from water we can provide power no harmful waste just h20 the only problem is oil and gas and goverments dont want it why???

Hydrogen is an energy store. You can't use it unless you supply energy.

Here comes a chemistry bit

H2(g) + ½ O2(g) →. . H2O(g). ∆H ° f. = -241.8 kJ/mole


To get 2 grammes of Hydrogen from water you need to supply enough energy to completely vapourise 9 times it's weight of water AND then another 242 kiloJoules to split the bonds. You then have the problem of storing hydrogen, compressing it will take about 10% of it's energy content and liquifying is even worse, in either case figure on loosing 1% a DAY through leakage unless you are using storage tanks that contain more energy than a atomic bomb.


One unit of electricity would give you maybe one ounce of hydrogen, so most hydrogen production these days is from fossil fuels mostly methane which just happens to be a major component of shale gas. But it would be more efficient to either burn the methane in a car than convert it for use in a hydrogen car or convert it to electricity for a battery car.


BTW
In chemistry you use capital letters for the elements
Big H , small 2, uppercase O

H2O

Oldtree

Cllr Gilmartin has just been on newstalk radio after attending a public meeting with Mr Richard Moorman last night. Cllr Gilmartin said that Mr Moorman stated that (despite very recent previous undertakings as noted above), it will only be the exploratory phase that will not use fracking chemicals, commercial ventures will!

Ahh the intrigue........... who do you trust?

garth-marenghi

PEACEFUL PROTEST TODAY SATURDAY 17TH SEPTEMBER. SLIGO PARK HOTEL CAR PARK, 8PM.


Pat Rabbitte Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, will be attending a function at the Sligo Park Hotel on saturday evening 17th September. We hope to make the Minister aware of the degree of local opposition to the awarding of licenses to gas companies and our opinions about hydraulic fracturing in Ireland.

Please try and attend this peaceful protest.

easychair

garth-marenghi wrote: »

PEACEFUL PROTEST TODAY SATURDAY 17TH SEPTEMBER. SLIGO PARK HOTEL CAR PARK, 8PM.


Pat Rabbitte Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, will be attending a function at the Sligo Park Hotel on saturday evening 17th September. We hope to make the Minister aware of the degree of local opposition to the awarding of licenses to gas companies and our opinions about hydraulic fracturing in Ireland.

Please try and attend this peaceful protest.

Protesting is so easy, finding solutions to access forms of energy less easy.

Presumably most of those who attended the hotel, which is probably lit using electricity powered by fossil fuels, and benefitting from air conditioned using electricity powered by fossil fuels, eating food and drink all delivered by vehicles powered by petrol or diesel, cooked and powered by power using fossil fuels, served by staff who have mainly travelled to work in vehicles powered by petrol or diesel, and all wearing uniforms which have been made and washed using machines powered by fossil fuels, all themselves travelled to the event in vehicles powered by petrol or diesel (including Pat Rabbitte).

While no one wants to destroy the environment which may be caused by fracking, it's still important to explore whether it can be done safely.

I know that many of us are suspicious these days of any projects looking for new forms of energy, but we should also be aware that we all, individually, consume vast quantities of it, and we need to ensure we can continue to explore and find new ways of finding it.

frackingishell

easychair- you're so full of crap its frightening.

djpbarry

frackingishell wrote: »

easychair- you're so full of crap its frightening.

[MOD] If you can't post without insulting others, then don't post. You've earned yourself a ban.[/MOD]

Macha

MOD NOTE:

There are a few active threads on fracking on Boards at the moment in case anyone is interested in following them:

Farming Forum: Farming and Gas Fracking

Politics Forum: Fracking in the West

tuppence

Opportunity for people to keep updated as well as take stock of the sustainable industries we already have.
Gas Mining: Our Future? Public information night on Fracking coming up in the Bee Park community centre in Manorhamiliton tomorrow Tuesday October 18th at 7.30. Speakers include

Fr AB O Shea(parish priest sooey)
Rob Doyle (local vet)
Councillor Gerry Dolan
Sean Wynn (Lough Allen Conservation Group)
Nuala Mcnulty (Eco Tourism)

Chaired by Mary Daly
Organised by the Love Leitrim group.

Oldtree

Saw this today, good for them, very proactive!

"Unanimous decision of Roscommon County Council calling for a ban on the method of shale gas extraction known as “fracking” in the county"

article here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1202/1224308473434.html

easychair

Oldtree wrote: »

Saw this today, good for them, very proactive!

"Unanimous decision of Roscommon County Council calling for a ban on the method of shale gas extraction known as “fracking” in the county"

article here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1202/1224308473434.html

I notice in the article they invite Tamboran Resources, one of two companies granted licences to carry out preliminary exploration in the Lough Allen basin, to address its February meeting. I wonder why if the have already voted and made up their minds?

A brave decision of the council might have been to vote to examine all the evidence, and decide on balance, rather than opting for the populist decision before, apparently, hearing from Tamboran Resources, for example, and others.

"Councillor Tony Aard, who proposed the ban, said he accepted the council did not have the power to decide the issue".

Consequently, one wonders why they had a vote at all, without hearing all the evidence, if it wasn't for their own populist reasons, and I wonder are there elections in the offing?

tuppence

They had a presentation from Ardcarne group against fracking. Theres been plenty of debate and other consultation out there, and yes with hundreds of people turning up at cos of the level of concern. Majority opinion from what I can see in this part of the country is for a moratorium at the very least.
Well done to Roscommon. Yes its symbolic but they are listening to their population I would suggest, and supporting them.
Ps Not all popular opinion is incorrect. Some initiatives like this I would suggest are just ethically, economically, and environmentally unsound from the beginning.