Shale Gas - Mod note post#117

NewVision

Last not least => Fracking causes serious health and environmental problems - report

garth-marenghi

Bhopal, the leaks and the Legacy: Lessons for Leitrim?

A public meeting, organised by Afri in association with Love Leitrim and
featuring two survivors of the Bhopal disaster will take place in the Glen
Centre in Manorhamilton on Thursday, September 27th at 8pm. The meeting
will hear first-hand accounts of the world’s worst industrial disaster from
Balkrishna Namdev and Safreen Khan who have come to Ireland to highlight
the continuing effects of this catastrophic event.

The Bhopal disaster resulted from a leak at a Union Carbide plant in Bhopal
which caused the deaths of 3,800 people instantly and at least 8,000 in the
longer term, while many people continue to suffer health affects until
today. The Company immediately tried to disassociate itself from legal
responsibility for the disaster.

Balkrishna Namdev was a Union organiser before the disaster and
subsequently set up the Gas-Affected Destitute Pensioner’s Front and
continues to work with Bhopal’s most vulnerable survivors.

Safreen Khan is 19 years old and inherited the disaster from her
gas-exposed parents and has lived with the effects of the disaster, which
Dow refuses to clean up.

The meeting will look at the on-going campaign by victims of the disaster
and will explore if Leitrim’s burgeoning anti-fracking campaign might learn
any lessons from Bhopal.



Further information:

Joe Murray

086 394689

nedzer2011

garth-marenghi wrote: »

Bhopal, the leaks and the Legacy: Lessons for Leitrim?

A public meeting, organised by Afri in association with Love Leitrim and
featuring two survivors of the Bhopal disaster will take place in the Glen
Centre in Manorhamilton on Thursday, September 27th at 8pm. The meeting
will hear first-hand accounts of the world’s worst industrial disaster from
Balkrishna Namdev and Safreen Khan who have come to Ireland to highlight
the continuing effects of this catastrophic event.

The Bhopal disaster resulted from a leak at a Union Carbide plant in Bhopal
which caused the deaths of 3,800 people instantly and at least 8,000 in the
longer term, while many people continue to suffer health affects until
today. The Company immediately tried to disassociate itself from legal
responsibility for the disaster.

Balkrishna Namdev was a Union organiser before the disaster and
subsequently set up the Gas-Affected Destitute Pensioner’s Front and
continues to work with Bhopal’s most vulnerable survivors.

Safreen Khan is 19 years old and inherited the disaster from her
gas-exposed parents and has lived with the effects of the disaster, which
Dow refuses to clean up.

The meeting will look at the on-going campaign by victims of the disaster
and will explore if Leitrim’s burgeoning anti-fracking campaign might learn
any lessons from Bhopal.

I could be completely in the wrong here..... but could someone please explain how the Bhopal disaster is relevant to this discussion? Trying to convince poeple that the risks are comparable?

NewVision

=> Bhopal disaster

Macha

NewVision wrote: »

=> Bhopal disaster

[mod]Please do more than just link to a story or wiki page. There should be a proper debate, not just link swapping. Thanks![/mod]

nedzer2011

..and it doesn't actually answer the question!!

NewVision

US: Government Study Shows Evidence Of Fracking Contaminating Groundwater

Business Insider, 27 September 2012

The EPA has confirmed a new USGS report published today supports an earlier study that groundwater near a Wyoming town may contain chemicals associated with fracking.
It would be the first time a government report directly linked fracking to groundwater contamination.

EPA representative Alisha Johnson said the new findings are consistent with results that agency published in December that found contamination:

EPA’s analysis of samples taken from the Agency’s deep monitoring wells in the aquifer indicates detection of synthetic chemicals, like glycols and alcohols consistent with gas production and hydraulic fracturing fluids, benzene concentrations well above Safe Drinking Water Act standards and high methane levels.

Quite consistent with Josh Fox' findings as well.

Also => THE SKY IS PINK

tuppence

nedzer2011 wrote: »

I could be completely in the wrong here..... but could someone please explain how the Bhopal disaster is relevant to this discussion? Trying to convince poeple that the risks are comparable?

Yep I went to it. No one was saying it was directly comparable. However there are lessons to be learnt from what can be be described as the disaster of Bhopal. I think that was what Afri intended to draw on when approaching the antifracking movement on this talk.

Really the link is human rights/environmental rights and corporate responsibility. The surivivors have learnt that the company cared more about its profits rather than the people it impacted on with the leak. Up to 10,000 people died from the initial leak but the companies practices had been poor between the time it came in and hadnt been monitored, ie since the 1960's up to the disaster of 1984. Land and water supplies was been polluted by the company then and the residue is still there. There was mimimal compensation to the people by the company in 1984. The government too were complicit in not taking care of its people and putting company interest before citiizens interest . There was no compensation for the environemenal harm it caused including polluting the water supply and land, and none for the people its impacting on now. People are still being effected physically, either genetically through birth defects or chronic ill health though the polluted water supply that has not been properly cleaned up. Issues that came up were also the non disclosure by the company of its activities and its risks- the people living beside the plant belived it to be producing pesticide. (similar problems about non disclosure are apparent with fracking etc etc)


So broad brush strokes from above, the importance of vigilance, governement accountaibilty, corporate responsibility etc. And fundamentally the importance of people to show solidarity and get out of their chairs and do something and desist from fault finding those who are active cos thats too easy. (And it'l be too late if that tendency persists)


One of the survivors who was there and suffers chronic ill health daily said. "the lucky ones were the ones that died that night" How bad it must be for those who have not felt listened to, have felt powerless to the interests of those with money and political power. Plenty of lessons there alright.

tuppence

Sorry about the late notice about this but only informed about this event yesterday, so anyone near Athlone, please try to get to this event if interested:

AN INTRODUCTION TO HYDRAULIC FRACTURING (FRACKING) by HELMUT FEHR, German geoscientist &well-respected authority on HYDRAULIC FRACTURING ---Where: HODSON BAY HOTEL, ATHLONE---When: THURSDAY, 18th OCTOBER at 8:00 pm---AN INFORMATION ROOM WILL BE AVAILABLE FROM 7:00 pm

ambrose21

Last week the gas price in the USA was $3 per BTU, compared to almost $15 per BTU in Japan.

Gas prices in the USA are roughly one third of gas priced in Europe.

Dow Chemical is shutting operations in Belgium, Holland, Spain, the UK, and Japan, but pouring money into a propylene venture in Texas where natural gas prices are a fraction of world levels and likely to remain so for the life-cycle of Dow's investments. Some 50 new projects have been unveiled in the US petrochemical industry with a $30bn investment underway in ethelyne and fetilizer plants alone.

The American Chemistry Council said the shale gas bonanza has reversed the fortunes of the chemical, plastics, aluminium, iron and steel, rubber, coated metals, and glass industries. "This was virtually unthinkable five years ago," said the body’s president, Cal Dooley.

Machinery, electrical products, transport equipment, furniture, and other industries - are "re-shoring" back from from China to the US. PricewaterhouseCoopers calls it the "Homecoming".

The US energy department said last week that the country will produce 11.4m barrels a day (b/d) of oil, biofuels, and liquid hydrocarbons next year, almost as much as Saudi Arabia.

This is largely due to hydraulic fracturing - blasting rock with water jets - to extract shale gas and oil, though solar power and onshore wind are playing their part.

Europe is going in the opposite direction, drifting towards energy suicide with every higher energy bills.

The gas differential with Europe and Asia will narrow gradually over time but there is no genuine global market for gas. Prices are local, dictated by pipelines. In Europe’s case they are dictated by Gazprom. Germany imports 36pc of its gas, Poland 48pc for Poland, 60pc for Hungary, 98pc for Slovakia, and 100pc for the Baltics.

Shale has made the US self-sufficient in gas almost overnight. The new twist of course is shale oil. Output has jumped to 2m b/d from almost nothing eight years ago.

Macha

ambrose21 wrote: »

Europe is going in the opposite direction, drifting towards energy suicide with every higher energy bills.

Funnily enough, this is largely due to higher gas prices.

NewVision

Macha wrote: »

Funnily enough, this is largely due to higher gas prices.

Who says that?

NewVision

ambrose21 wrote: »

Last week the gas price in the USA was $3 per BTU, compared to almost $15 per BTU in Japan.

Gas prices in the USA are roughly one third of gas priced in Europe.

Dow Chemical is shutting operations in Belgium, Holland, Spain, the UK, and Japan, but pouring money into a propylene venture in Texas where natural gas prices are a fraction of world levels and likely to remain so for the life-cycle of Dow's investments. Some 50 new projects have been unveiled in the US petrochemical industry with a $30bn investment underway in ethelyne and fetilizer plants alone.

The American Chemistry Council said the shale gas bonanza has reversed the fortunes of the chemical, plastics, aluminium, iron and steel, rubber, coated metals, and glass industries. "This was virtually unthinkable five years ago," said the body’s president, Cal Dooley.

Machinery, electrical products, transport equipment, furniture, and other industries - are "re-shoring" back from from China to the US. PricewaterhouseCoopers calls it the "Homecoming".

The US energy department said last week that the country will produce 11.4m barrels a day (b/d) of oil, biofuels, and liquid hydrocarbons next year, almost as much as Saudi Arabia.

This is largely due to hydraulic fracturing - blasting rock with water jets - to extract shale gas and oil, though solar power and onshore wind are playing their part.

Europe is going in the opposite direction, drifting towards energy suicide with every higher energy bills.

The gas differential with Europe and Asia will narrow gradually over time but there is no genuine global market for gas. Prices are local, dictated by pipelines. In Europe’s case they are dictated by Gazprom. Germany imports 36pc of its gas, Poland 48pc for Poland, 60pc for Hungary, 98pc for Slovakia, and 100pc for the Baltics.

Shale has made the US self-sufficient in gas almost overnight. The new twist of course is shale oil. Output has jumped to 2m b/d from almost nothing eight years ago.

Calm down. That hype in the US won't last long => Fracking - A Boom and Bust

ambrose21

It's unusual now to see argument by cliched thinking, and I can't imagine many people here will be persuaded by sloganising.

NewVision

ambrose21 wrote: »

It's unusual now to see argument by cliched thinking, and I can't imagine many people here will be persuaded by sloganising.

What do you mean with "sloganising"? Fracking - A Boom and Bust?

NewVision

Risk and Responsibility: Farming, Food, and Unconventional Gas Drilling (Independent Science News, 12 November 2012)

Extraction of hydrocarbon gas from tight shale formations using horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing has been advertised as a path toward energy independence for the United States and is being promoted worldwide. This is tempered by environmental and societal concerns that have led to banning the practice in some countries (e.g., France), at least one state in the U.S. (Vermont), and numerous towns and cities in the United States. In the United States, the process itself is largely regulated at the state level, with exemptions from federal laws regulating air, drinking water and hazardous waste disposal. Regulation at the state level varies considerably among states with significant shale deposits, as does the level of enforcement of regulations. The argument often given to suggest that the process is safe cites the fact that in the sixty years since the first gas well was hydraulically fractured, the industry has not found proof it finds acceptable that drinking water has been contaminated. This assertion is not universally accepted because of at least two factors.

First, it is based on a narrow definition of hydraulic fracturing, that is, solely the process of stimulation of the well; whereas, the public and many in academia are more concerned with the entire life-cycle of the drilling and extraction process with many possible routes of environmental contamination. The second issue is the burden of proof. Is it the public or the government that bears the burden of proving that environmental harm has occurred or should the industry be required to provide scientifically acceptable proof of the safety of the process? In this paper, we will discuss regulation briefly followed by a more detailed discussion of health effects of shale gas extraction, and possible impacts on food safety.

...

Conclusions

The unconventional gas-drilling boom has swept across the globe in recent years without evidence that environmental and public health can be protected. In the United States, the industry enjoys extensive subsidies, which include, among many others, exemptions from federal laws regulating clean air, clean water, and the disposal of toxic substances. A patchwork of state regulations allow secrecy rather than disclosure of substances used in all steps of the process, and nondisclosure agreements have been used to block access to information on specific cases that could provide meaningful public health information. Without complete transparency (disclosure of all chemicals used and outlawing nondisclosure agreements in cases involving public health) and complete testing, science cannot proceed unimpeded. Without careful science demonstrating, not the absence of proof of harm, but rather the clear absence of harm to public health, neither state nor federal regulations can assure that the food supply and the health of individuals living near gas drilling and processing operations will be protected.

Until we can protect public health with greater certainty, unconventional shale gas extraction should be severely limited or banned, using the subsidies currently provided to support this industry to instead develop and deploy renewable forms of energy.

NewVision

What else than toxic chemicals can we find in the brine coming back with the fracking fluids?

Fracking – The Elephant in the Gas

Like the “elephant in the room” saying means something which needs to be addressed is in fact being ignored, the Elephant in the fracking room is in the Gas. Specifically – Radiation.

Radioactivity (NORM – Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials) exist in shale formations. When disturbed by human activity it becomes known as TENORM (Technologically Enhanced Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials).TENORMS are found in the drill cuttings, returned Frackwater, Produced Brine, “re-cycled” frackwater, and the natural gas itself. Equipment, such as drills, drill bits and other equipment used over and over again to created gas wells may also become contaminated with radiation due to repeated exposure. Radiation has also been detected in water wells which have been contaminated by drilling activities.

See: The Elephant in the Gas for more information.

NewVision

Food & Water Europe has published a report which shows that the industry's speaking point about a 100 year supply of natural gas for the US is bogus. This report questions the assumptions behind the 100 year claim.

=> U.S. Energy Insecurity: Why Fracking for Oil and Natural Gas Is a False Solution

NewVision

WWF supports IEA conclusion: two thirds of fossil fuel reserves must be left underground

Two thirds of all proven fossil fuel reserves must stay in the ground if the world is serious about avoiding dangerous climate change, according to the International Energy Agency in its World Energy Outlook 2012 report released today.

"The IEA's conclusion reflects sound science. CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels are destabilizing our climate. We cannot burn fuels like coal and oil indefinitely without paying the price in the form of climate instability, droughts, heat waves and super storms. The IEA has done the only responsible thing by prominently highlighting this in its report," says WWF's Global Climate and Energy lnitiative leader Samantha Smith.

"This scientific and blunt assessment should be clearly heard by all countries, investors and the fossil fuel industry itself. This is not only about stopping all new large-scale fossil fuel exploration, such as those in the Arctic; this is about retiring existing dirty energy infrastructure as well, and it is the price to pay to avoid global climate disaster. We quickly needed to transition our energy economies if we are to avoid a climate catastrophe," she says

NewVision

No fracking of shale gas in Luxembourg

NewVision

How Unconventional Gas Threatens our Water, Health, and Climate

• The Myth that Gas is "Clean Energy"
• The Dangers Of Gas Drilling
• Big Oil's Takeover of the Gas Industry
• Gas Politics Are Polluted
• Gas Industry Lobbying Muscle
• Conclusion & Credits

• Download the PDF Version

NewVision

Why the War Against Fracking May Be Our Most Crucial Conflict, Fracking could ruin Ireland warn experts


Rural Ireland should be very wary of shale gas industry - Childers

NewVision

A Tour of Pennsylvania Hydrofracking Sites

NewVision

First Study of Its Kind Detects 44 Hazardous Air Pollutants at Gas Drilling Sites

According to a peer-reviewed study in the journal Human and Ecological Risk Assessment, more than 50 NMHCs [non-methane hydrocarbons] were found near gas wells in rural Colorado, including 35 that affect the brain and nervous system. Some were detected at levels high enough to potentially harm children who are exposed to them before birth.

SiegfriedsMum

NewVision wrote: »

First Study of Its Kind Detects 44 Hazardous Air Pollutants at Gas Drilling Sites

According to a peer-reviewed study in the journal Human and Ecological Risk Assessment, more than 50 NMHCs [non-methane hydrocarbons] were found near gas wells in rural Colorado, including 35 that affect the brain and nervous system. Some were detected at levels high enough to potentially harm children who are exposed to them before birth.

From your contribution to this thread so far, I think we can all see that you are not unpartisan, and are coming here with an agenda. Hence there seems little point engaging with someone who seems to want to lecture everyone else as opposed to engage in any meaningful or interesting discussion.

Fracking is an interesting subject, and has the potential to have a good discussion here, but this thread has been, alas, hijacked by a cheerleader for one position.

NewVision

SiegfriedsMum wrote: »

From your contribution to this thread so far, I think we can all see that you are not unpartisan, and are coming here with an agenda. Hence there seems little point engaging with someone who seems to want to lecture everyone else as opposed to engage in any meaningful or interesting discussion.

Fracking is an interesting subject, and has the potential to have a good discussion here, but this thread has been, alas, hijacked by a cheerleader for one position.

What a reply to my post about Hazardous Air Pollutants at Gas Drilling Sites.

Feel free to challenge points made here. Be a "cheerleader" yourself...

Mycroft H

SiegfriedsMum wrote: »

From your contribution to this thread so far, I think we can all see that you are not unpartisan, and are coming here with an agenda. Hence there seems little point engaging with someone who seems to want to lecture everyone else as opposed to engage in any meaningful or interesting discussion.

Fracking is an interesting subject, and has the potential to have a good discussion here, but this thread has been, alas, hijacked by a cheerleader for one position.

It's hard to have balanced debate on this issue, believe me, I've tried and given up.

NewVision

BX 19 wrote: »

It's hard to have balanced debate on this issue, believe me, I've tried and given up.

First you need information.

Macha

[mod]Hi all, can we try to get a debate going about shale gas, rather than just information updates? Sharing links ≠ debate. thanks.[/mod]

NewVision

Britain is hitting for fracking. But it will be more expensive than renewables.

Gas 'will add more to energy bills than renewables' – government advisers

Finding by Committee for Climate Change contradicts coalition's line on energy, despite using government's own research.

Household energy bills will be about £600 higher per year in the coming decades if the UK relies increasingly on gas, the government's climate advisers warned on Thursday.

But the Committee on Climate Change found that bills would only be £100 higher than today's average dual fuel bill of about £1,300, if the country concentrated on renewable power generation, such as wind power.

The committee's findings rebuff the government's argument that gas will in future provide a cheap source of electricity and heating – and the findings are based on the government's own research.