What really happened Osama bin Laden

Monty Burnz · 02-05-2011 5:18pm

He died years ago

nullzero wrote: »

I haven't read this whole thread, I posted and you quoted me, so I replied to that post.
If you said something I missed I apologise, but from what you said in the post where you quoted me, my questions were justified.

Fair enough. I've jumped into threads and missed stuff in the past.

We are in agreement - there should be evidence, and it should be good. The point I was making in the post you link there is that - looking at it from their perspective - they know that some people will never believe, so they may as well take their time and get the proof organised.

And of course we should bear in mind, the guy isn't dead 24 hours yet.

ACR · 02-05-2011 5:20pm

I think the taliban will be looking for revenge.

TPD · 02-05-2011 5:23pm

I don't see why the American government would announce that Osama is dead if he isn't either dead or captured. He could easily release another video if he's still at large, sowing worldwide distrust in the American government.

What would be pretty interesting is if he'd made contingency videos to be released on announcement of his death, tricking the world into thinking that he's still alive, and again causing distrust towards the American government.

nullzero · 02-05-2011 5:24pm

He is alive and well somewhere

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Fair enough. I've jumped into threads and missed stuff in the past.

We are in agreement - there should be evidence, and it should be good. The point I was making in the post you link there is that - looking at it from their perspective - they know that some people will never believe, so they may as well take their time and get the proof organised.

And of course we should bear in mind, the guy isn't dead 24 hours yet.

Gald all that misunderstanding is over.

Fvck what a small per centage of people believe in this situation.

They came out and said they killed Bin Laden.
They have to provide evidence.
I sincerely doubt that the US Government is worrying about what some conspiracy theorists think of the story because as you pointed out they wont believe it anyway.

If they want this story to be taken seriously the onus is on them to provide evidence post haste.

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 5:37pm

TPD wrote: »

I don't see why the American government would announce that Osama is dead if he isn't either dead or captured. He could easily release another video if he's still at large, sowing worldwide distrust in the American government.

What would be pretty interesting is if he'd made contingency videos to be released on announcement of his death, tricking the world into thinking that he's still alive, and again causing distrust towards the American government.

Those of us who don't believe these claims that Bin Laden was killed over the weekend are of the belief that he was in fact killed years ago. Way back in 2001 and the US kept him "alive" because he served them so well in scaring the sh!t out of the American sheeple. They'd re-release doctored and touched up videos to keep the "War on Terra" at the forefront of peoples' minds. He was the ideal bogeyman who has now outlived his purpose so they just announced now that he's been killed even though he's been dead for a decade.

Jeboa Safari · 02-05-2011 5:39pm

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Those of us who don't believe these claims that Bin Laden was killed over the weekend are of the belief that he was in fact killed years ago. Way back in 2001 and the US kept him "alive" because he served them so well in scaring the sh!t out of the American sheeple. They'd re-release doctored and touched up videos to keep the "War on Terra" at the forefront of peoples' minds. He was the ideal bogeyman who has now outlived his purpose so they just announced now that he's been killed even though he's been dead for a decade.

So why didn't the intelligence agencies of other nations call the US out on this?

namloc1980 · 02-05-2011 5:42pm

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

So why didn't the intelligence agencies of other nations call the US out on this?

Ànd how exactly would they know otherwise?

Revolution9 · 02-05-2011 5:44pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Ànd how exactly would they know otherwise?

Which begs the question, how do the people who buy the theory know otherwise?

mada999 · 02-05-2011 5:49pm

Oracle wrote: »

Not sure about the controversy over Osama but its a bravura performance from Obama:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNYmK19-d0U

eh was there not another video of him just walking up to the podium, making his speech and walking away without saying thank you or anything? how many speeches were there?

profitius · 02-05-2011 6:06pm

He is alive and well somewhere

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think you just undermined your own argument.

How?

theboss80 · 02-05-2011 6:10pm

He is alive and well somewhere

Wonder what Charlis Sheen thinks......

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 7:05pm

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

So why didn't the intelligence agencies of other nations call the US out on this?

What could they do to dispute it? If they themselves didn't have a dead body positively identified as Bin Laden then they'd just be crying into the wilderness. Besides many of the foreign intelligence services are singing from the same hymn sheet as the CIA anyway. Mossad, GCHQ, MI6 and varous European services are just as duplicitous as the CIA. They all know that people are being tortured at Guantanamo and at various other "black sites" around the world. The CIA and the State Department vehemently denies it and the intelligence agencies of other countries go along with it.

Priori · 02-05-2011 7:05pm

iamstop wrote: »

Won't be long before there is another 'face of terror'.

The Incredible Fridge wrote: »

Aliens next time!

And they'll board the mother ship on the pretext that E.T. is housing weapons of universal destruction.

Let's hope they get a good aul anal probing.

fontanalis · 02-05-2011 7:09pm

He died years ago

ACR wrote: »

I think the taliban will be looking for revenge.

Why the taliban?

Jeboa Safari · 02-05-2011 7:12pm

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

What could they do to dispute it? If they themselves didn't have a dead body positively identified as Bin Laden then they'd just be crying into the wilderness. Besides many of the foreign intelligence services are singing from the same hymn sheet as the CIA anyway. Mossad, GCHG, MI6 and varous European services are just as duplicitous as the CIA. They all know that people are being tortured at Guantanamo and at various other "black sites" around the world. The CIA and the State Department vehemently denies it and the intelligence agencies of other countries go along with it.

If they're any way good they could prove the videos were at least fake, and what about countries not as friendly to the US, like Russia and China, or even a friendlier nation like France if they thought they could gain from it.

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 7:16pm

Revolution9 wrote: »

Which begs the question, how do the people who buy the theory know otherwise?

Well it makes sense. Top CIA officials have said he's been dead for years. Now you might ask "why would I believe them over the White House?"

Good question. Well the White House and Downing street have been vomiting out lie after lie after lie since 2000 so if they were to tell me the sky was blue I'd be sceptical. It's hard to believe that an old man with hepatitis and on dialysis could survive in the wilderness for 10 years even if he had managed to avoid the bombing raids that have been constantly doled out. It's also very much the advantage of the Americans to keep the threat of him alive as they can keep people focussed on the whole War on Terror hoax. Without a credible threat of something terrible and scary like Bin Laden they can't keep the people in a state of fear and they can't justify ongoing resource wars.
When the Warsaw Pact disintegrated in 1989/90, Washington were in a state of panic because how now would they be able to justify a military budget of nearly 3/4 of a trillion dollars, a lot of it on ridiculous projects that never get off the ground but just swallow up billions of taxpayer dollars for the rich defense firms in bed with Washington?

Hookah · 02-05-2011 7:17pm

He is alive and well somewhere

I've just read my first official account.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-praises-troops-killed-osama-bin-laden/story?id=13507836

They were gonna bomb the compound, but Obama wants proof he's dead, sends in the SEALs, so we'll have proof, they match his DNA to his sister, and dump his body at sea, 1500 km away.

:pac:

You couldn't make it up.

How long does it take to test DNA?

Edit; Got it. Instant DNA testing hasn't been invented yet.

Why'd they put that crock of **** in the report?

fontanalis · 02-05-2011 7:22pm

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Those of us who don't believe these claims that Bin Laden was killed over the weekend are of the belief that he was in fact killed years ago. Way back in 2001 and the US kept him "alive" because he served them so well in scaring the sh!t out of the American sheeple. They'd re-release doctored and touched up videos to keep the "War on Terra" at the forefront of peoples' minds. He was the ideal bogeyman who has now outlived his purpose so they just announced now that he's been killed even though he's been dead for a decade.

Really; it's great to be in the know. How do I stop being one of the sheeple (coolest word ever)?

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 7:29pm

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

If they're any way good they could prove the videos were at least fake, and what about countries not as friendly to the US, like Russia and China, or even a friendlier nation like France if they thought they could gain from it.

If other countries can be bullied and coerced into handing over people who have committed no crimes like Assange, if they can be forced to adopt the same moronic security screening measures as US airports, if they can be made to hand over your banking details, your ISP activity, etc., then it's not exactly going to be difficult to have them keep quiet about the Bin Laden hoax, is it?

Besides the likes of Russia and China would only be wasting their time. They've got bigger fish to fry like trying to checkmate the US in the Middle-East and halt their intended military encirclement of China than some petty exercise in embarrassing the Americans. Washington would just deny it and people would believe them the same way as they believe all their lies and fabrications. There are people out there who are actually convinced WMDs were found in Iraq. Do you think Washington is going to lift a finger to educate these morons when they can just let them wallow in their own ignorance?

Wibbs · 02-05-2011 7:29pm

He is alive and well somewhere

God points there JB

jackiebaron wrote: »

It's hard to believe that an old man with hepatitis and on dialysis could survive in the wilderness for 10 years even if he had managed to avoid the bombing raids that have been constantly doled out.

This would resonate for me too. The man hasn't been seen in public since when? 2001? 2002 tops? The authenticity of some of the tapes is suspect, especially the one where in some weird convo he admits his part in the whole 911 gig? Eh very convenient and there are good arguments it's a fake.

This raid? It's daft enough to be true, but you would think they'd make every effort to get the guy alive. Can you imagine a shaved broken Osama in an orange jumpsuit held by Americans? Early reports were calling it a kill mission, which has been dialed back. I dunno the whole thing, especially the speed of disposal of the body, it just seems all a bit hasty for public enemy numero uno. For religious reasons? Give me an ever loving break. They know people will be asking questions. Then again Fox TV watchers won't and will just go on the streets shouting U! S! A!

It's also a nice little sabre rattling exercise against Pakistan for good measure. Pretty effin daft though when those yahoos have nukes.

fontanalis · 02-05-2011 7:40pm

He died years ago

Hookah wrote: »

I've just read my first official account.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-praises-troops-killed-osama-bin-laden/story?id=13507836

They were gonna bomb the compound, but Obama wants proof he's dead, sends in the SEALs, so we'll have proof, they match his DNA to his sister, and dump his body at sea, 1500 km away.

:pac:

You couldn't make it up.

How long does it take to test DNA?

Edit; Got it. Instant DNA testing hasn't been invented yet.

Why'd they put that crock of **** in the report?

15 minutes apparently
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=how-do-you-id-a-dead-osama-anyway-2011-05-02

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 7:43pm

Wibbs wrote: »

God points there JB This would resonate for me too. The man hasn't been seen in public since when? 2001? 2002 tops? The authenticity of some of the tapes is suspect, especially the one where in some weird convo he admits his part in the whole 911 gig? Eh very convenient and there are good arguments it's a fake.

This raid? It's daft enough to be true, but you would think they'd make every effort to get the guy alive. Can you imagine a shaved broken Osama in an orange jumpsuit held by Americans? Early reports were calling it a kill mission, which has been dialed back. I dunno the whole thing, especially the speed of disposal of the body, it just seems all a bit hasty for public enemy numero uno. For religious reasons? Give me an ever loving break. They know people will be asking questions. Then again Fox TV watchers won't and will just go on the streets shouting U! S! A!

It's also a nice little sabre rattling exercise against Pakistan for good measure. Pretty effin daft though when those yahoos have nukes.

And why couldn't they have taken him alive? What would that have involved? Sitting it out until the compound ran out of food and water? Then they would have had him cornered. Simple as that. No, this guy is already dead years ago. That's why they can say with all confidence that they killed him now. They know he's dead. If they weren't sure he was already dead they would want to be able to PROVE without a shadow of a doubt that they got him this time but they can't do that because this whole raid malarkey is a hoax. They probably didn't even conduct a raid or if they did they just fired a bit of lead about the place and then fabricated a preposterous yarn about shooting him and dumping his corpse in the ocean. It's an insult to the intelligence of anyone with an IQ above room temperature but that's Washington for you...a bastion of delusion and utter ineptitude.
It was time to close the saga on Bin Laden as they couldn't really get any more mileage out of him so they concoted this farce.

Di0genes · 02-05-2011 7:51pm

He died years ago

Wibbs wrote: »

God points there JB This would resonate for me too. The man hasn't been seen in public since when? 2001? 2002 tops? The authenticity of some of the tapes is suspect, especially the one where in some weird convo he admits his part in the whole 911 gig? Eh very convenient and there are good arguments it's a fake.

Really what are they? Nearly every news organisations like Al Jaazera are happy that they're authentic. It would be the journalistic scoop of the decade to prove otherwise.

This raid? It's daft enough to be true, but you would think they'd make every effort to get the guy alive. Can you imagine a shaved broken Osama in an orange jumpsuit held by Americans? Early reports were calling it a kill mission, which has been dialed back. I dunno the whole thing, especially the speed of disposal of the body, it just seems all a bit hasty for public enemy numero uno. For religious reasons? Give me an ever loving break. They know people will be asking questions. Then again Fox TV watchers won't and will just go on the streets shouting U! S! A!

And what should they do, parade the body about the place. Till when.

Explain exactly what the US government should have done with Bin Laden's corpse.

It's also a nice little sabre rattling exercise against Pakistan for good measure. Pretty effin daft though when those yahoos have nukes.

Thats wonderful nuanced political insight.

Di0genes · 02-05-2011 7:54pm

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

And why couldn't they have taken him alive? What would that have involved?

Potential civil war in Pakistan. US troops surrounding a compound, and being surrounded by country were both large swashes of the population and military support muslim extremism.

That'd be fun.

Hookah · 02-05-2011 7:57pm

He is alive and well somewhere

fontanalis wrote: »

15 minutes apparently
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=how-do-you-id-a-dead-osama-anyway-2011-05-02

What I said in AH.

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 8:03pm

Di0genes wrote: »

Potential civil war in Pakistan. US troops surrounding a compound, and being surrounded by country were both large swashes of the population and military support muslim extremism.

That'd be fun.

Pakistan has already agreed to cooperate in the capture of Bin Laden. They harbour a lot more resentment for American drones killing Pakistani civilians willy-nilly than they they would get upset about Bin Laden being cornered, Remember, the Taliban and Pashtun tribesmen in the borderlands of Afghanistan and Pakistan are not Arabs. Bin Laden IS. They have no great affinity for him.
If you go back to the mid-90's you will find that the Taliban have always viewed foreign Arab fighters in this region with suspicion and trepidation

nullzero · 02-05-2011 8:03pm

He is alive and well somewhere

Di0genes wrote: »

Really what are they? Nearly every news organisations like Al Jaazera are happy that they're authentic. It would be the journalistic scoop of the decade to prove otherwise.

And what should they do, parade the body about the place. Till when.

Explain exactly what the US government should have done with Bin Laden's corpse.

Thats wonderful nuanced political insight.

It's amazing how you demand proof of every CT imaginable here, but when something as dubious as this is reported in mainstream media you make yourself an apologist for the official story.

Some hard evidence is not an unreasonable request in this instance.

Di0genes · 02-05-2011 8:05pm

He died years ago

nullzero wrote: »

It's amazing how you demand proof of every CT imaginable here, but when something as dubious as this is reported in mainstream media you make yourself an apologist for the official story.

Some hard evidence is not an unreasonable request in this instance.

What hard evidence would you like.

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 8:06pm

Di0genes wrote: »

And what should they do, parade the body about the place. Till when.

Explain exactly what the US government should have done with Bin Laden's corpse.

They seemed to have no problem with doing it with the corpses of Uday and Qusay Hussein, Saddam's sons.

Di0genes · 02-05-2011 8:09pm

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Paistan has already agreed to cooperate in the capture of Bin Laden.

The government of Pakistan has, elements of the people of Pakistan have clearly been sheltering him for over a decade.

The government of Pakistan has made plenty of promises that it cannot or will not keep.

They harbour a lot more resentment for American drones killing Pakistani civilians willy-nilly than they they would get upset about Bin Laden being cornered,

Non-sequitur

Remember, the Taliban and Pashtun tribesmen in the borderlands of Afghanistan and Pakistan are not Arabs. Bin Laden IS. They have no great affinity for him.
If you go back to the mid-90's you will find that the Taliban have always viewed foreign Arab fighters in this region with suspicion and trepidation

Incorrect. Bin Laden was a Saudi who joined wiith Mujaheen fighters in the war against the Soviets, along with thousands of other Saudis.

What really happened Osama bin Laden

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