England v India 2011

dfx-

JustinDee wrote: »

Thankfully India don't agree with your sentiments on the matter.

Under what conditions is Bell not out or justified in his not out claim?

booth70

400+ Runs today and 170 runs in the last session....

India have taken an absolute hammering today and will have to chase 450+ to win or more realistically hope to bat out 5 sessions to save this game.....can't see them doing either....the series seems to be over as a contest even before it appears to have started:(

This England team with their depth in batting and the quality of their bowling attack is easily the best team in the world at the moment

Royale with Cheese

dfx- wrote: »

Under what conditions is Bell not out or justified in his not out claim?

It's somewhat similar to the bowler running somebody out when they're backing up at the non strikers end (no idea what the current rule is on that).

To the letter of the law you'd be out if the bails were taken off, but it was always considered to be seriously bad form to do that without at least giving the batsman a warning.

JustinDee

dfx- wrote: »

Under what conditions is Bell not out or justified in his not out claim?

Did you watch the panel discussing it? Or the interview with Dravid? Explained perfectly there.

TrueDub

I'm very surprised none of the commentators have mentioned this: the umps could have said not out, because Bell left his crease "under a misapprehension".

Essentially the umps could have reprieved him because he didn't understand what went on, and thought the ball was dead when it isn't.

nompere

TrueDub wrote: »

I'm very surprised none of the commentators have mentioned this: the umps could have said not out, because Bell left his crease "under a misapprehension".

Essentially the umps could have reprieved him because he didn't understand what went on, and thought the ball was dead when it isn't.

It was discussed - and Michael Holding (fast bowler) pointed out to David Lloyd (once a first class umpire) that the law refers to leaving the wicket when the batsman is under the misapprehension that he is out, and not when he's under the misapprehension that it's tea-time.

Giggsy11

booth70 wrote: »

400+ Runs today and 170 runs in the last session....

India have taken an absolute hammering today and will have to chase 450+ to win or more realistically hope to bat out 5 sessions to save this game.....can't see them doing either....the series seems to be over as a contest even before it appears to have started:(

This England team with their depth in batting and the quality of their bowling attack is easily the best team in the world at the moment

Had the series was played in sub continent with Sehwag, Gambhir, Zaheer playing, maybe, maybe you wouldn't have said that..

ClareVisitor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Had the series was played in sub continent with Sehwag, Gambhir, Zaheer playing, maybe, maybe you wouldn't have said that..

Well that just shows that India have a great first XI, but not much after. England have a first choice bowler out and Trott batting down the order because of a damaged shoulder and still made 400 with more to come. And if I'm not mistaken didn't England draw their last series in India 1-1?

Great sportsmanship from Dhoni and the Indian team, but it does open up the question of the next time an Indian batsman is given out lbw after an inside edge a la Harbhajan. If they appeal and a decision is given against the Indian batsman it's going to cause some bad blood.

Giggsy11

ClareVisitor wrote: »

Well that just shows that India have a great first XI, but not much after. England have a first choice bowler out and Trott batting down the order because of a damaged shoulder and still made 400 with more to come. And if I'm not mistaken didn't England draw their last series in India 1-1?

Great sportsmanship from Dhoni and the Indian team, but it does open up the question of the next time an Indian batsman is given out lbw after an inside edge a la Harbhajan. If they appeal and a decision is given against the Indian batsman it's going to cause some bad blood.

Well we are just not talking about just a first team players, they are Key players. Sehwag and Zak are very very imp players.

Who is that bowler? England first choice..

ClareVisitor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Well we are just not talking about just a first team players, they are Key players. Sehwag and Zak are very very imp players.

Who is that bowler? England first choice..

Tremlett is sitting this one out with Bresnan coming in. And I think Trott could be described as a "very important" player as well, he must have the highest average of any current international players for players who've played more than a handful of games. The current number 9 ranked bowler and number 2 ranked batsman in the world. Zaheer is at 5, Sehwag at 10 and Gambhir at 25 in their respective rankings, so much of a muchness there I think with the players missing out, it's just that England's replacements come in more seamlessly.

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/

Giggsy11

ClareVisitor wrote: »

Tremlett is sitting this one out with Bresnan coming in. And I think Trott could be described as a "very important" player as well, he must have the highest average of any current international players for players who've played more than a handful of games. The current number 9 ranked bowler and number 2 ranked batsman in the world. Zaheer is at 5, Sehwag at 10 and Gambhir at 25 in their respective rankings, so much of a muchness there I think with the players missing out, it's just that England's replacements come in more seamlessly.

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/

Oh going by Rankings.. Well I didn't remember Tremlett so asked who was the first choice bowler..

Edit: How many test matches did Trott play? Some 20 odd isn't it. Will see what will be his average when he plays colse to 50..

ClareVisitor

I wasn't thinking of rankings in my original post, but put in the rankings information to show that Tremlett and Trott could easily be described as "key" or "important" as much as Sehwag, Zaheer and Gambhir. And I think we can safely say Tremlett is first choice at this stage, although the strength of England's fast bowling department means that they all have to keep on their toes. Bresnan is doing himself no harm either, chipping in with the bat as I type.

ClareVisitor

Here's that stats, Trott is keeping some pretty exalted company there.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282910.html

Giggsy11

ClareVisitor wrote: »

I wasn't thinking of rankings in my original post, but put in the rankings information to show that Tremlett and Trott could easily be described as "key" or "important" as much as Sehwag, Zaheer and Gambhir. And I think we can safely say Tremlett is first choice at this stage, although the strength of England's fast bowling department means that they all have to keep on their toes. Bresnan is doing himself no harm either, chipping in with the bat as I type.

I dont know how important Trott is for England, but Sehwag is one of the best batsman in the world. If I'm not wrong Anderson is the main bowler, for us its Zaheer. I'm not just complaining about the players who are missed but also playing in England and dominating is completely different from doing the same in sub continent.

ClareVisitor wrote: »

Here's that stats, Trott is keeping some pretty exalted company there.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282910.html

I can't open the link. Like I said we will see where he will end up by the time he plays close to 50 games.

JustinDee

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Had the series was played in sub continent with Sehwag, Gambhir, Zaheer playing, maybe, maybe you wouldn't have said that..

A top side wins away series. India can't play every test at home. A top side must also have depth. India certainly isn't doing the former very well this tour and doesn't have the latter. In a couple of years, they will be down by a couple of more key batsmen and at least one bowler.

Gambhir is overrated (by a million or two in the fixed and bent player IPL player draft for a start). Zaheer Khan is injured ... again. Because of the thin depth of players, he played while injured. As has Harbhajan Singh. Sehwag good of course but hardly the most reliable and in English conditions, would be a risky choice.

As their test record will show, England are one of the most difficult sides to beat in their own patch. No, I don't like that either but its nice to see the BCCI see its darlings be on the receiving end of drubbing. Outplayed in almost every facet of the game this tour.

mike65

I think England should show some of the generous spirit of India by declaring. 514-7, 447 lead.

ClareVisitor

That's not England's way Mike, they're generally very conservative with their declarations. If they haven't been bowled out, I epxect them to come out after luch, get the lead up to way above 500 so all India can do is draw and then have a bowl.

Giggsy11

JustinDee wrote: »

A top side wins away series. India can't play every test at home. A top side must also have depth. India certainly isn't doing the former very well this tour and doesn't have the latter. In a couple of years, they will be down by a couple of more key batsmen and at least one bowler.

Gambhir is overrated (by a million or two in the fixed and bent player IPL player draft for a start). Zaheer Khan is injured ... again. Because of the thin depth of players, he played while injured. As has Harbhajan Singh. Sehwag good of course but hardly the most reliable and in English conditions, would be a risky choice.

As their test record will show, England are one of the most difficult sides to beat in their own patch. No, I don't like that either but its nice to see the BCCI see its darlings be on the receiving end of drubbing. Outplayed in almost every facet of the game this tour.

If anything England played only away series in Australia when we have travelled to NZ, WIndies, England too..

Gambhir is overrated, Zak is ****. I love it.

When Australians were level or 2 above every cricketing nation they couldn't beat us in India. That didn't make us THE BEST TEAM at that time.. Like I said will see how this series goes and how England plays away from home..

Sehwag has done well in every conditions. Dont know what makes him not reliable against England at England.

ClareVisitor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If anything England played only away series in Australia when we have travelled to NZ, WIndies, England too..

Gambhir is overrated, Zak is ****. I love it.

When Australians were level or 2 above every cricketing nation they couldn't beat us in India. That didn't make us THE BEST TEAM at that time.. Like I said will see how this series goes and how England plays away from home..

Sehwag has done well in every conditions. Dont know what makes him not reliable against England at England.

England last lost a series (home or away) in 2008-2009 in the West Indies. They've been to Australia and South Africa since then and they've just battered the Indian attack, such as it is.

mike65

Oooooooooooooh! India in and England drop the first wicket chance with the first ball bowled.

ClareVisitor

Someone in the Indian batting lineup will have to step up now "The Wall" is gone.

Giggsy11

ClareVisitor wrote: »

England last lost a series (home or away) in 2008-2009 in the West Indies. They've been to Australia and South Africa since then and they've just battered the Indian attack, such as it is.

When was the last time India lost the series? I dont remember actually. So I'm asking..

ClareVisitor

India last lost a test series in Sri Lanka in 2008, 2-1 to Sri Lanka in a three test series.

Giggsy11

ClareVisitor wrote: »

India last lost a test series in Sri Lanka in 2008, 2-1 to Sri Lanka in a three test series.

That was the last? If so brilliant record.

ClareVisitor

Yep a great run, 8 wins and 3 draws in that sequence.

JustinDee

Giggsy11 wrote: »

That was the last? If so brilliant record.

Yes its an excellent record. Doesn't detract from England's record though. They're quite rightly regarded as a bloody good side. Their record speaks for itself.
I never said Khan was rubbish. I said he was injured and because of lack of depth in strike bowlers, they needed him to play.
And yes, Gambhir overrated, in my opinion. His IPL price was a joke compared to the other batsmen in the IPL. Still, that draft system won't be investigated. Too much money at stake.

India 2-14 at the mo. Well under the cosh.

JustinDee

India buggered. 6-55 after Dhoni goes shoulders and arms to Bresnan who is on a hat-trick

Dozen Wicked Words

Short stuff has been brilliant from England. Sachin is going to get left high and dry by the look of it.

JustinDee

Looks like it. Big performance from England.

ClareVisitor

Well one end is open now. The end is nigh for India.