Topgifts.ie gone into liquidation

clsta

maxer68 wrote: »

clsta - you don't have much knowledge of company law, (not expected to either) so be careful what / how you say things.
Most companies are Limited Lability companies - this includes the smallest and the Largest companies in Ireland.
Limited Liability means the directors liability is limited to the shareholders funds UNLESS reckless / fraudulent trading is PROVEN.

Unless a director has been restricted or banned - they can operate any other company they wish. Mistakes are made and many of today most successful companies have been built up after another compay went bust - including Dell Computers! If the mistakes / losses are made due to normal trading or overly optimistic forecasts, then there's nothing wrong - analysts gets things wrong, forecasters get things wrong, we all get things wrong.
If however there wa s aconcerted plan to knowlingly take money out of the company in the knowledge that the company could not pay other commitments, then there is a case for fraud and it has to eb investigated - a thorough investigation can take 18 months. - Any faster and mitakes are made and people walk away.

You may be unhappy about the loss of the voucher, but getting worked up about it won't bring it back.

yes you are correct I dont no anything about company laws, but I do know that I am owed e250 by this company so why should I be careful as I have every right to retrive my money without laws and excuses put in my way. And if you dont mind me saying so who broke the law here not me.and I also have the right to get as angry and as worked up as I want, maybe I wont get it back but justice needs to be served, if I took e250 out of your wallet and walked away and I told you [dont get worked up about it you wont be getting it back????

whippet

clsta wrote: »

I am owed e250 by this company

this is the key here, you are owed money by the company, who now no longer exist. A liquidation takes place and the company ceases to exist.

clsta wrote: »

I have every right to retrive my money without laws and excuses put in my way.

Actually you don't have the right to anything with out legal resource. The Law is there for a reason and as a citizen of this country you must abide by these laws.

clsta wrote: »

And if you dont mind me saying so who broke the law here not me.

If you feel a law was broken and can actually prove it, that would be a different matter. Accusing someone on a public forum of breaking a law without any real evidence based in company law couldn't be condoned on any website.

clsta wrote: »

and I also have the right to get as angry and as worked up as I want, maybe I wont get it back but justice needs to be served,

You do have the right to be angry, but unless you can prove that there was fraudulent trading going on I don't think you will see the "justice" that you desire.

clsta wrote: »

if I took e250 out of your wallet and walked away and I told you [dont get worked up about it you wont be getting it back????

A business transaction can't be compared to a mugging.

While I sympathize with your situation, the reality is that this is a common occurrence in these economic times.

The small company I work for has lost the guts of €300,000 from customers who have gone in to liquidation and us as unsecured creditors had no option but to swallow it. €300,000 to a SME is the difference between job security and social welfare for many staff.

It's not a nice situation for yourself to be in, but you must look at it rationally rather than assume that you are entitled to something.

Wellmum

I've just found out that at least one of the owners of Topgifts and Naturally Irish is now running another business from that premises called <SNIP>.
I am outraged that this should be allowed to happen.
After all <SNIP>, why should <SNIP> be allowed to set up another business <SNIP>
Grrrrrrrrr, soooooo angry!! :mad:

clsta

whippet wrote: »

this is the key here, you are owed money by the company, who now no longer exist. A liquidation takes place and the company ceases to exist.



Actually you don't have the right to anything with out legal resource. The Law is there for a reason and as a citizen of this country you must abide by these laws.



If you feel a law was broken and can actually prove it, that would be a different matter. Accusing someone on a public forum of breaking a law without any real evidence based in company law couldn't be condoned on any website.



You do have the right to be angry, but unless you can prove that there was fraudulent trading going on I don't think you will see the "justice" that you desire.


A business transaction can't be compared to a mugging.

While I sympathize with your situation, the reality is that this is a common occurrence in these economic times.

The small company I work for has lost the guts of €300,000 from customers who have gone in to liquidation and us as unsecured creditors had no option but to swallow it. €300,000 to a SME is the difference between job security and social welfare for many staff.

It's not a nice situation for yourself to be in, but you must look at it rationally rather than assume that you are entitled to something.

this is my answer to you,if you want evidence AND I am abideing by the law, What transaction the money was paid and nothing in return, that is not a transaction prove read on This is a general email being sent out to those who have emailed info@topgiftsvouchers.comThis email address was set up to try to determine the number of unredeemed TopGifts vouchers that exist in the marketplace and this will probably be expanded to include advertising in the national press in order to understand the scale of the problem.You are probably aware that TopGifts Corporate Event Limited had ceased trading as of Wednesday 27th April owing most, if not all, of their partner companies a significant amount of money. Their business model was based on taking payment for the gift vouchers up front and then passing on the payment, less commission, to the activity providers after the activity had taken place. This means that the activity partners have not received ONE CENT for vouchers that have not been used. Once it was clear that TopGifts were not paying their partners for activities that had already taken place, it was only natural that the partners started to refuse to accommodate those holding TopGifts vouchers.In terms of your unused vouchers, we would suggest applying for a chargeback with the credit card company if they were purchased by that means. Unfortunately, those who paid by other means i.e. cheque, cash, Laser or Mastercard debit do not have that avenue available to them.There has been a creditors meeting called for Friday 13th May at Wynns Hotel, 35-39 Lower Abbey Street, Dublin 1. We are anticipating that this meeting will not be allowed to proceed, as the vast majority of the creditors i.e. the unredeemed voucher holders, have NOT been informed of the meeting, as required by law, forcing an adjournment.As an prior activity partner of TopGifts, we have teamed up with other partners and plan to include the services of an insolvency lawyer at that meeting to represent our interests.Those tuning into Joe Duffy’s show last week would have undoubtedly heard many stories of the TopGifts staff/directors telling outright lies to the voucher holders in a bid to have them not partake in their activity, many of whom now have expired vouchers. There are significant irregularities in the filed accounts with the CRO. They have stated on their filed B1 forms that they hold no other directorships, yet they continue to operate as Naturally Irish Gifts Limited, out of the same office at D9 Southern Link Business Park Naas and have filed a similar B1 form for that company. These premises belong to the three directors and are leased to TopGifts. They have also claimed sizeable ‘leasehold improvements’ on their accounts. Details of their accounts can be downloaded, for a small cost, from www.cro.ieThe directors of TopGifts are <SNIP>. This information is in the public domain and available on their filed B1 form with the CRO, available as above.A file is being prepared for the ODCE (Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement) in relation to TopGifts trading practices.We hope to shortly have a website available where voucher holders can provide more information regarding their voucher purchase and any dialogue relating to their communication with TopGifts when trying to partake in their chosen activity.We will provide further updates as they become available.Just to reiterate, we have no connection with TopGifts, other than being a former activity partner who is owed a substantial amount of money from TopGifts for activities already provided and not paid for.

dudara

Addresses removed - I don't care if this information is in the public domain. I have removed it here before and I will remove it again. If people feel inclined to harass the directors, they can damn well go find the information themselves rather than obtaining it through Boards.

Directors exist as separate legal individuals to the companies on which they sit. Until fraudulent trading is proved, they are free to start new businesses and trade. Please respect that fact on this forum, no matter how strongly you feel about it.

dudara

clsta

dudara wrote: »

Addresses removed - I don't care if this information is in the public domain. I have removed it here before and I will remove it again. If people feel inclined to harass the directors, they can damn well go find the information themselves rather than obtaining it through Boards.

Directors exist as separate legal individuals to the companies on which they sit. Until fraudulent trading is proved, they are free to start new businesses and trade. Please respect that fact on this forum, no matter how strongly you feel about it.

dudara

you are right let justice take its course

maxer68

clsta wrote: »

yes you are correct I dont no anything about company laws, but I do know that I am owed e250 by this company so why should I be careful as I have every right to retrive my money without laws and excuses put in my way. And if you dont mind me saying so who broke the law here not me.and I also have the right to get as angry and as worked up as I want, maybe I wont get it back but justice needs to be served, if I took e250 out of your wallet and walked away and I told you [dont get worked up about it you wont be getting it back????

So far no-one has PROVEN that any law has been broken. It is up to the liquidator to get the evidence.

If you lodge a claim with the liquidator you will be clasified as a creditor of the company and you will receive the liquidator reports and details of what the directors say.

Of course you're angry, but being angry won't get money back. I can get angry because various companies oweing me over €20,000 have gone bust over the years - most from pure bad luck and thew recession, a couple because the operators was scammers. - I have to accept these losses and learn from them (currently I do not extend credit to any customer - but in exchange dropped prices). But c'est la vie - there are risks out there and if wrong doing is proven the ODCE WILL take action - they have been known for taking very strong action where frauldulent trading is concerned and directors very often land in the High Court.

mmid

Just found out top gifts are gone when i logged on to redeem a present! Any updates?

clsta

bumpydog wrote: »

Whilst I agree with some of your points, I do not believe for one minute that TopGifts suffered as much as they might suggest with their Christmas sales. We are (were) one of their high-ticket partners and we saw maybe a 5% drop in direct sales over Christmas, which leads me to believe that those who purchased vouchers from them at Christmas have been given the same run-around which is frequently being heard from the holders of said vouchers. We have not received a single enquiry since Christmas and I know that one TG voucher holder (who purchased their voucher last July) has been given countless excuses as to why they cannot partake in the activity, all of which were clearly untrue.

It is my firm belief that the three directors of TopGifts should be held *personally* responsible for their work practice and ethics (or lack of). Watch this space!

Malcolm.

I agree with above any more on this

clsta

bumpydog wrote: »

OK, keep an eye on boards.ie and, possibly, the national press. I think that you'll find that this debacle isn't over just yet. I understand that there will be a request put out for all TopGifts voucher holders to complete a questionnaire to be followed by potential action against the 3 directors. Further details will become available following expert legal advice.

Malcolm.[/QUOTE
What further action has been taken against these directors would like anyone to give update on anything that has to do with this mess

clsta

shayleon wrote: »

Many of my clients also told me that TG told them that I was busy and couldn't accept them, even though I was not. I also chased them for months and even asked them whether they are going out of business, which they denied. They lied to many people many times.

yes lies lies is this not cause for concern when these people are still operating under a different company name going to trade events promoting thier products.???

clsta

lucyfur09 wrote: »

If you didn't do it the first time send the copy again by registered post. Very easy for someone to say they didn't receive something.

it wont do you any good I spoke to the liquidator and he said nothing left
in this company look at what others are saying you may find it very entresting (directors of topgifts)

bumpydog

I am still awaiting a response from the liquidator as, I believe, he has to make his filing to the ODCE within 6 months of the creditors meeting ( or is it from the actual liquidation date?)

Either way, based on the many reports of deceipt and the inexplicable accounts and fraudulent returns to the CRO, we have filed our own detailed complaint with the ODCE and have received a reply stating that all of our details have been noted and will be taken into account in the context of their offices examination of the behaviour of the directors under the section 56 reporting mechanism.

If the liquidators report hasn't already been filed, it should be done shortly.

Now, I'm sure that Jane/Jaqueline/James are watching this thread....have a great Christmas!!

Love, Malcolm.

bumpydog

>>If you feel a law was broken and can actually prove it, that would be a different matter. Accusing someone on a public forum of breaking a law without any real evidence based in company law couldn't be condoned on any website.

The law has been broken and there is clear proof. For example, they are bound by law to invite ALL known creditors to the creditors meeting. More than 50% of the creditors by value (<SNIP>) were not invited or made aware of the creditors meeting. Sadly, the 'penalty' for this crime is a fine, not exceeding €100. Secondly, anyone can download their filed B1 forms from cro.ie which will show that they failed to identify themselves as directors of any other company (on *both* company B1 returns!)

The issue of fraudulently providing a service with no intention to provide is a different issue which I am sure will be addressed in due course.


Malcolm.

Grizz

Hi just discovered I have a voucher worth €250. I had tried to redeem it years ago but they kept saying the company (a make over company) couldnt take a booking for another few months. I gave up in the end.
Has anyone got their money back from them?

Mightycraic

From Topgifts? No. Only those who managed to get a refund from their credit card providers. They spun that story with most voucher holders to avoid them being used.

I believe that the issue with ODCE vs TopGifts still has yet to be fully addressed.

shayleon

Grizz, i provided services worth over 800 euro. gave it up .
no chance. don't waste your time.