Where do you find rest?

AhSureTisGrand

You only think everyone has a God-shaped hole in their hearts because you believe in God

AhSureTisGrand

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

You only think everyone has a God-shaped hole in their hearts because you believe in God

I have a coffee handle shaped space in my hand, clearly I was born to drink coffee :cool:

Beruthiel

b318isp wrote: »

I agree that there is little fulfilment in material things.

Oh I donno. A great film on a home cinema surround sound system turned up loud is pretty awesome!

Beruthiel

Beruthiel wrote: »

Oh I donno. A great film on a home cinema surround sound system turned up loud is pretty awesome!

Or driving with the top down :D

AhSureTisGrand

b318isp wrote: »

I agree that there is little fulfilment in material things. It's what we do and how we do it that counts.

Isn't everything material though, ultimately?

5uspect

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

You only think everyone has a God-shaped hole in their hearts because you believe in God

Is that you, Derren?

Doctor DooM

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Isn't everything material though, ultimately?

What about finding joy in music?

I mean there's nothing there, other than fleeting soundwaves.

AhSureTisGrand

5uspect wrote: »

Is that you, Derren?

You were watching Channel 4 as well last night :L

AhSureTisGrand

Doctor DooM wrote: »

What about finding joy in music?

I mean there's nothing there, other than fleeting soundwaves.

And the brain is stimulated and releases endorphins which make us feel happy

axer

Doctor DooM wrote: »

What about finding joy in music?

I mean there's nothing there, other than fleeting soundwaves.

They have actually seen the effect of music on the brain via MRI so it is proven to give joy to some people.

5uspect

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

You were watching Channel 4 as well last night :L

Yes, depressing stuff.

Doctor DooM

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

And the brain is stimulated and releases endorphins which make us feel happy

Of course the reaction is totally material (as it is for those who get joy out of thinking about the big G too. )

But the stimulus which causes it exists as a bitstream on a disc, not as the music which caused the reaction.

Of course I could be looking at this the wrong way because the disc does have to exist

axer wrote: »

They have actually seen the effect of music on the brain via MRI so it is proven to give joy to some people.

again missing my point- the music which causes the reaction doesn't actually exist. Im not debating whether it generates joy, was just wondering if you could argue it's something immaterial which creates joy.

magicbastarder

axer wrote: »

What about the vatican then? They are supposed to have a god but yet seem to have a need for wealth, expensive art, accomodation etc. Is god not enough for them?

to be fair to the OP, (s)he never specifically mentioned catholocism, so it's not really a point against it.

b318isp

Beruthiel wrote: »

Oh I donno. A great film on a home cinema surround sound system turned up loud is pretty awesome!

Ah, but you're getting value from the film and the sound! The HT is not much use without those! It's the end, not the means, that is important.

BTW, Pink Floyd's Pulse gave my HT a real workout on Sunday.

b318isp

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Isn't everything material though, ultimately?

Of course, but the OP, I think, is pointing out the fallacy of those who focus on material goods for the sake of the goods themselves. Their motivation is the possession, not the use.

rainbow kirby

Where do I find rest? My bed. Duh.

b318isp

b318isp wrote: »

Of course, but the OP, I think, is pointing out the fallacy of those who focus on material goods for the sake of the goods themselves. Their motivation is the possession, not the use.

OP might do well to look in the buddhism forum then :pac::pac:

sensibleken

The only way i can fill my inner void* is with delicious delicous baby

*teeheehee

axer

Doctor DooM wrote: »

again missing my point- the music which causes the reaction doesn't actually exist. Im not debating whether it generates joy, was just wondering if you could argue it's something immaterial which creates joy.

and I was backing up you assertion that music can cause joy - not debating it.

bazman05

Donatello wrote: »

I wonder where folks who do not believe in God find rest, peace, joy?

I think that the most convincing proof that there is a God is the spiritual void that is in each person. Material goods, drugs, sex, alcohol - none of these things are effective remedies against the emptiness that is inside. Yes, they feel good in the moment, but they do not endure. They exhaust themselves, and the soul grows bored.

If you have a lot of money, you can buy distractions - cars, for instance, or houses. Or women. Whatever.

But you are just distracting yourself. You have the money to do it. Great. But even then, you are fooling yourself if you think this is some kind of permanent solution or an effective remedy.

I see the emptiness of the people around me. I see them doing what I do when I stray from my walk with God. They seek to lose themselves in whatever distractions they can find.

But only in my walk with God have I experienced true joy - an up-welling in my soul of pure joy. This is not something that comes from myself, but rather it comes from my closeness to God and is a gift from Him. If I walk with God, I experience His joy. When I stray from Him, I feel the pull of materialism and sensuality - the desire to fill myself with whatever I can find. I seek to fill the emptiness some other way, though I know it is futile. Only God satisfies.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this, for those of you who do not believe in God.

“O Lord, you have made us for yourself, and our hearts are restless until they find their rest in you.”
- St. Augustine of Hippo

Why should you care what we think? Just because you need to believe in fantasy (it's a nice thing to believe to cope with reality better, but so is the idea of having super powers), doesn't mean you have to either take digs at Atheist's and Agnostics or just spark a heated debate where theirs no winner.

Religions are man made constructions and with every version of it comes a different interpretation of the after-life, so how do you know your version is the right one?

When you die, you're dead, you're worm food. I couldn't care less. That's my reality and I don't need fantasy to hide from that fact.

axer

magicbastarder wrote: »

to be fair to the OP, (s)he never specifically mentioned catholocism, so it's not really a point against it.

It doesn't matter since the likes of the pope claim to have god in their lives but still seem to have a strong need for a lot of money in their banks and nice palaces etc. Does that mean that god is incapable of fulfilling their lives?

liamw

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Of course the reaction is totally material (as it is for those who get joy out of thinking about the big G too. )

But the stimulus which causes it exists as a bitstream on a disc, not as the music which caused the reaction.

Of course I could be looking at this the wrong way because the disc does have to exist



again missing my point- the music which causes the reaction doesn't actually exist. Im not debating whether it generates joy, was just wondering if you could argue it's something immaterial which creates joy.

I still don't see which part isn't material here.

The pits on the disc are material. The reading head and software used to decode the bitstream is material. The output of the speakers in the form of soundwaves at different wavelengths and frequencies is material. The interpretation of the sounds as a musical tune by the brain is material. Electro-chemical reactions in the brain recalling memories is material. The release of dopamine and endorphines making you feel happy is material.

Perhaps, we have different interpretations of the word material. Do material and immaterial entities both lie inside the natural world for you?

magicbastarder

i suspect the debate lies more in the difference between material and ephemeral?

seamus

liamw wrote: »

Perhaps, we have different interpretations of the word material.

Probably. In a religious context when the word comes out, it's usually being used in the hippie context where anyone who wants "material" things is someone who pays money for things to make themselves happy rather than be content to live in straw huts and live on the wonder and joy that is their own spiritual musings.

This is distinct from the philosophical meaning, where "material" is synonymous with "tangible".

Of course the hippie meaning is new-age guff usually used in the same context as "globalisation" and "sheeple".

Galvasean

Where do you find rest?

On a big pile of money with lots of pretty ladies

Galvasean

Donatello wrote: »

Material goods, drugs, sex, alcohol - none of these things are effective remedies against the emptiness that is inside. Yes, they feel good in the moment, but they do not endure. They exhaust themselves, and the soul grows bored.

If you have a lot of money, you can buy distractions - cars, for instance, or houses. Or women. Whatever.

Are you calling women objects?

sensibleken

Galvasean wrote: »

Are you calling women objects?

He's also never heard of acid flashbacks!

Dr. Loon

Am I the only person who finds the OP's insinuations and assumptions mildly insulting? Who are you to assume we - meaning non-religious people - have any emptiness? I genuinely feel pity for you OP. In the facking sack.

By the way, ever since embracing my lack of belief, I've never felt happier. What a weight off the shoulders. Am I deluding myself? No. There's a lot to be said for being good just for the sake of goodness alone, and not because I'm scared of the sky wizard damning me to hell.

Shenshen

I absolutely love how the OP assumes that since he (or she, who knows?) feels empty and disillusioned, obviously so does the rest of the world. It can't possibly just be him, can it? Everybody has to be exactly the same, only they don't know it. Only he knows.

Childish, and kind of sad, I think.

Turtwig

Donatello wrote: »

I wonder where folks who do not believe in God find rest, peace, joy?

I think that the most convincing proof that there is a God is the spiritual void that is in each person. Material goods, drugs, sex, alcohol - none of these things are effective remedies against the emptiness that is inside. Yes, they feel good in the moment, but they do not endure. They exhaust themselves, and the soul grows bored.

If you have a lot of money, you can buy distractions - cars, for instance, or houses. Or women. Whatever.

But you are just distracting yourself. You have the money to do it. Great. But even then, you are fooling yourself if you think this is some kind of permanent solution or an effective remedy.

I see the emptiness of the people around me. I see them doing what I do when I stray from my walk with God. They seek to lose themselves in whatever distractions they can find.

But only in my walk with God have I experienced true joy - an up-welling in my soul of pure joy. This is not something that comes from myself, but rather it comes from my closeness to God and is a gift from Him. If I walk with God, I experience His joy. When I stray from Him, I feel the pull of materialism and sensuality - the desire to fill myself with whatever I can find. I seek to fill the emptiness some other way, though I know it is futile. Only God satisfies.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this, for those of you who do not believe in God.

“O Lord, you have made us for yourself, and our hearts are restless until they find their rest in you.”
- St. Augustine of Hippo

Well all of life is distracting yourself from your own mortality until you die. I'm at peace with that. For the record, I don't drink, smoke or take drugs and I love walks along the coastline for that lovely sense of serenity I feel. As for the emptiness, the only time I feel that emptiness is when people like you spout such crap with the best of your good intentions. People often mean well but the goods are rarely delivered. I don't need God, but if He's the anchor that holds your own world together then I don't begrudge you of having Him just try to understand that I don't want Him. Neither of us can know which way of life is better so why not just leave it there?