Dole claimants who refuse offers of work will have payments cut

tommy21

I think they should work it out on a length basis. E.g. what percentage have been on the dole

30 years
25 years
20 years

etc.

And work downwards. If someone has been on it from 1 day up to 2 years, you can understand, but thereafter more stringent measures are required. Anyone who has been on it for years and years should be ashamed of themselves.

Savage93

Clareboy wrote: »

Full Employment! What a Joke! There were over 160,000 Irish people who could not get a job in their own country during the so called boom!

I put it to you that the bulk of that figure were either (a) unemployable or (b) had no interest whatsoever in getting work, the system encourages people NOT to work or seek work!!:mad:

Lockstep

EarlERizer wrote: »

Sorry,where is it that i'm saying give people money for nothing? like i said,I AGREE with your point! ....... now here's the line your missing "In my opinion minimum wage is modern day slave labour" it's just my opinion based on the current cost of living vs minimum wage.

p.s. my opinion is based on experience.

Yes, I also have a lot of experience on the minimum wage. Granted i dont have a mortgage or kids but it was liveable as long as you budget. To compare this to slave labour is an awful lot of hyperbole.

Boskowski

end a eknny wrote: »

funny when there was work they didnt bother now when there is none they bring this forward

Well I imagine it goes hand in hand with there being no money in the state coffers either while we all know what the last government was best at; throw our money at anything that may get complicated.

Also the np jobs argument goes out the window when they are actually offering one. I't doesn't say go and find yourself a job or else it says 'who refuses'.

jank

Lockstep wrote: »

Yes, I also have a lot of experience on the minimum wage. Granted i dont have a mortgage or kids but it was very liveable as long as you budget. To compare this to slave labour is an awful lot of hyperbole.

Agree, getting "paid" for slave labour is just a none sense argument.

loldog

Getting people mad at the unemployed is a great way to divert the taxpayer's attention away from how severely they are being shafted by the billionaire oligarchy.

This policy would make some sense in an economy with near to full employment, but makes no sense now. The same thing is going on in the UK, the Tories are attacking people on incapacity benefits, aided by the right wing and Murdoch press.

It's the shock doctrine in action - making use of a fake, synthetic recession to roll back the progress made in the 20th century until we're in a state of neofeudalism.

.

Mawbish

As person who's been searching high and low for work for almost two years now I'm delighted with this move!

I finally got a job on the CE Scheme 19.5hours per week for E208.00 but nada towards travelling expenses at 35k each way I'd actually be better off on the dole! But the thing is....I like to work and I'm using the scheme as a way to source a full time job (fingers crossed)

I see plenty of layabouts in the town, who quite frankly have never worked a day in their lives and they sit in the pub or the bookies all day long. They get housing, disability, ESB, childrens allowance etc etc and they don't deserve it & it drives me up the flipping wall.

If they refuse reasonable offers of work or training they're allowances SHOULD be withheld not just cut

coffee_cake

I have to agree it might be a problem if there are excessive travel expenses- would there be a childcare issue here or am I missing something?
That is to say, someone with young children at home would really have to be earning over a certain mark to afford childcare + everything else

tallus

Sparks43 wrote: »

Why not take time to find out what the unemployed scroats/drunks/junkies/wasters are actually able to offer or can be trained to do, rather then pushing people into a situation that would be no use to them or there employer


Sorry that would make too much sense in this ****hole of a Country we live in.:mad:



14% unemployment last time i checked!

Do we really have that many layabouts?


I am unemployed

I am not a drunk/scroat/junkie/waster


If i was asked to work a certain amount of hours per week in a productive scheme i would jump at it



This is where we should look at people on benefits

Get them back into a routine

Help them with skills

Protect them from shark employers

And most important give them confidence

Shag all of that around at the moment

I think we have that at the moment, it's called Community Employment.
You work 20 hours per week in a community centre, and go on as many FAS training courses as you can while on the scheme. I was on it for almost two years after losing my job, and it enabled me to find full time work.

tallus

Mawbish wrote: »

As person who's been searching high and low for work for almost two years now I'm delighted with this move!

I finally got a job on the CE Scheme 19.5hours per week for E208.00 but nada towards travelling expenses at 35k each way I'd actually be better off on the dole! But the thing is....I like to work and I'm using the scheme as a way to source a full time job (fingers crossed)

I see plenty of layabouts in the town, who quite frankly have never worked a day in their lives and they sit in the pub or the bookies all day long. They get housing, disability, ESB, childrens allowance etc etc and they don't deserve it & it drives me up the flipping wall.

If they refuse reasonable offers of work or training they're allowances SHOULD be withheld not just cut

Same here Mawbish, tho I came off the CE about three years back when I got a full time job.

NIMAN

Although I live here I work in NI and I was just thinking the other day as I drove to work at 6am on a beautiful morning about how my 14hr days are helping keep some unemployed in the style they are accustomed to.

I know of quite a few folk personally in NI who are milking the system for all its worth. One such family have a mum in her 40s who hasn't worked in 20+yrs. She has nothing wrong with her, but she spends her day swanning around, shopping, watching TV, enjoying the sunshine!! etc. I don;t think she will ever work from what I have seen of her.

Her daughter of 20 has recently had a child with her long term boyfriend. They were trying for a couple of years. She claims to be single and was recently given a house for her and the child. But her relationship is stable. By the way, this boyfriend, in his mid 20s, has never officially worked (may have done the double?), and I would bet that he never will.

There is also a son involved, in his early 20s. Also never worked. And if he aspires to the rest of the family, never will. The problem is now that there is a culture developing of people who think they simply don't have to work, as they will get looked after.

For me, getting up at 5:45am in the morning to work shifts/weekends, knowing people who have this attitude is a real pain. Its because of folk like this that I pay so much tax (probably glad I don't work in RoI or I'd probably be paying more). I appreciate that there are many folk who need social welfare, but there are also many who are taking the p1ss. I can guarantee if all these folk were offered a job in the morning they wouldn't want it.

For me, someone working should never be worse off than someone on the dole, but unfortunately thats common now.

later12

NIMAN wrote: »

I appreciate that there are many folk who need social welfare, but there are also many who are taking the p1ss.

At the height of the boom in Ireland there was almost full employment, having gone to 22,000 long term unemployed at one stage during the boom. That figure is now about 154,000 for long term unemployed.

The overall unemployment figure according to the QNHS was about 70,000 during one stage of the boom, the lowest rate in Europe, compared with about 300,000 unemployed today, one of the highest rates in Europe.

This tells us that unless a sudden bout of laziness has come upon the state, the ability and the desire to work does exist, the problem is one of job availability.
There is of course the danger that long term welfare dependency could become ingrained, but I'm not quite convinced that this is the case just yet. Hopefully the upcoming jobs budget will prevent the benefits culture from materialising as seriously as it has materialised in the mainland UK, for example.

donutheadhomer

tommy21 wrote: »

I think they should work it out on a length basis. E.g. what percentage have been on the dole

30 years
25 years
20 years

etc.

And work downwards. If someone has been on it from 1 day up to 2 years, you can understand, but thereafter more stringent measures are required. Anyone who has been on it for years and years should be ashamed of themselves.

are there really people 20/25/30 years on the dole?

Also are prople who are long term disabled/unsuitable for work and single parents included in the live register figures? I'm guessing there would be nearly 1000000 people in receipt of welfare weekly

InigoMontoya

loldog wrote: »

Getting people mad at the unemployed is a great way to divert the taxpayer's attention away from how severely they are being shafted by the billionaire oligarchy.

This policy would make some sense in an economy with near to full employment, but makes no sense now. The same thing is going on in the UK, the Tories are attacking people on incapacity benefits, aided by the right wing and Murdoch press.

The policy, properly implemented, makes sense at any time.

Overheal

EarlERizer wrote: »

This is going to turn into a drive to force people into minimum wage positions......a modern day form of slave labour!

Just to beat this point with a stick again, that's ridiculous. If you actually research Slave Labor you will see that slaves did/don't get any wage, and are/were commonly abused for their trouble. Pickin' cotton fields, gettin' whipped, and being denied basic education. Probably getting molested a lot too. Among other things I'm probably not thinking of right off the top of my head. Nevermind the fact that you're actually someone's property. Choosing to be reliant on the State is a choice. You can always leave.

I fail to understand how the Minimum Wage is considered dirty, as well. If you think it needs to be higher, petition to have it raised. But it's not impossible to live on the minimum wage. It just seems that between all the allowances the Dole offers people are accustomed to living by the means which are provided by the State, not living by means which you can sustain Independently. When you think about it that way what's the 'slavery'; working and living on your own feet or being chronically attached to a government nipple?

poppylady

Its a great idea but there are two major problems:

its the civil servants who will be making the decisions who in my experience don't live in the real world

and two

the dole cheats won't be long about finding a way around the new rules so its the ordinary joe soap who will suffer

as was said before "if these people couldn't or wouldn't get a job in the boom time then why would they want one now"

STIG83

I got a letter last week about this, i have to go in to FAS next week.

caseyann

Mawbish wrote: »

As person who's been searching high and low for work for almost two years now I'm delighted with this move!

I finally got a job on the CE Scheme 19.5hours per week for E208.00 but nada towards travelling expenses at 35k each way I'd actually be better off on the dole! But the thing is....I like to work and I'm using the scheme as a way to source a full time job (fingers crossed)

I see plenty of layabouts in the town, who quite frankly have never worked a day in their lives and they sit in the pub or the bookies all day long. They get housing, disability, ESB, childrens allowance etc etc and they don't deserve it & it drives me up the flipping wall.

If they refuse reasonable offers of work or training they're allowances SHOULD be withheld not just cut

First congratulations on your new job


Secondly rubbish they dont get ESB paid or any other bills paid for them so please stop loading the bullets in the guns.And they do not all sit in bookies or drink all day long.Again that is a minority.
Stop the stereo typing.;)

The girls i know with kids who want to work,as i said find it hard because backed into corner with child care.
People who may live out alone when backed into corner of low pay might drag them lower in to poverty circle.
In order for this to work.First health needs to be sorted out,then the rent section.Then something needs to be done about education and the prices of school books.
Just three of the many factors that are barrier from people being able to work properly with kids.And rent and health for single people living out alone.

http://www.cpa.ie/povertyinireland/oneparentfamilies.htm

Insufficient access to affordable childcare to allow them to avail of the education and training opportunities that would improve their chances of securing better-paid jobs
The financial cost of the transition from social welfare dependency into employment, particularly the loss of secondary benefits such as the medical card and rent supplement
Lack of family-friendly work arrangements

Lockstep

Lockstep wrote: »

Yes, I also have a lot of experience on the minimum wage. Granted i dont have a mortgage or kids but it was very liveable as long as you budget. To compare this to slave labour is an awful lot of hyperbole.

Should also point out that living on the minimum wage isn't something I'd view as extremely easy to live on, especially for those who would have mortgages, families and so on. However, it's not exactly slave labour levels either.

end a eknny

this is just lipservice from the goverment they will not be able to implement it nor will they try. a more realistic option would be to cut the welfare payments across the board including the pension so that it isnt viable for people to stay at home if they can get a job

caseyann

end a eknny wrote: »

this is just lipservice from the goverment they will not be able to implement it nor will they try. a more realistic option would be to cut the welfare payments across the board including the pension so that it isnt viable for people to stay at home if they can get a job

Is that sarcasm? I should damn well hope it is.

djpbarry

caseyann wrote: »

They need to work on getting the childminding fees back down also car tax and food prices and petrol, public transport etc..

Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. Prices in Ireland are still high-ish (although they are only just above 2006 levels) because people in Ireland still earn relatively large sums of money.

Chief--- wrote: »

How the flying fcuk has this not always been the case??

Because welfare fraud has always been socially acceptable in Ireland:

djpbarry wrote: »

I accept this is purely anecdotal, but from my perspective, welfare fraud is rampant in Ireland. I was unemployed in Ireland last year and virtually everyone I spoke to encouraged me to apply for state benefits that I was not eligible for. I know “long-term unemployed” people who have made virtually no attempt to find work for years. I know of people married to British nationals who travel to the UK to obtain free healthcare. I know at least one person who is claiming a disability benefit, the terms of which stipulate that she live alone (not sure of the particulars), but she lives with her brother. Of course the point is, it’s not just me – we all know these people. Fraud is ubiquitous in Irish society (“Ah, it’s grand – sure isn’t everyone else at it too?”), which is precisely why fraudsters are routinely elected to the Dáil – people get the government they deserve.

Lockstep wrote: »

Yes, I also have a lot of experience on the minimum wage. Granted i dont have a mortgage or kids but it was liveable as long as you budget. To compare this to slave labour is an awful lot of hyperbole.

It’s viewed as “slave labour” because the average Irish worker earns about 3 times the current minimum wage – I suppose it’s difficult for people to imagine a 66% wage cut.

loldog

InigoMontoya wrote: »

The policy, properly implemented, makes sense at any time.

No, because it requires extra spending and investment. When there is already a huge surplus of labour ready and willing to work, it makes no economic sense at this time to divert resources towards a small minority of the unemployed who may not be able to hold down a job for very long. Economists generally say an economy has reached full employment when the unemployment rate is at around 4%, they recognise that there will always be a small percentage of the labour force not employed for various reasons.

In any case, the benefits they receive are spent into the local economy primarily. I just don't see why it could be seen as an economic priority except for propaganda purposes, to divert attention away from the real parasites in the global financial system - a tactic which works very well, it seems.

.

end a eknny

caseyann wrote: »

Is that sarcasm? I should damn well hope it is.

what is your problem

InigoMontoya

poppylady wrote: »

Its a great idea but there are two major problems:

its the civil servants who will be making the decisions who in my experience don't live in the real world

That's nonsense.

poppylady wrote: »

and two

the dole cheats won't be long about finding a way around the new rules so its the ordinary joe soap who will suffer

as was said before "if these people couldn't or wouldn't get a job in the boom time then why would they want one now"

So we shouldn't bother even trying? And how exactly will the ordinary joe soap suffer?

poppylady

As an employer I find that the majority of Civil Servants have no idea how the real world works - they just pick up there wages every month regardless of what work they do - hence why the country is in the mess it's in.

Joe Soap is your honest unemployed person who is a victim of the times we live in and will conform to whatever the Dept of Social Welfare decides in order to survive - he's easy prey!

djpbarry

poppylady wrote: »

As an employer I find that the majority of Civil Servants have no idea how the real world works...

As an employee, I find that the majority of people in the real world have no idea what the average civil servant does on a day-to-day basis, never mind what goes on inside their heads.

redux

This is just another hopeless scheme from another hopeless government.
Before any Minister comes up with "the next good idea", they really need to get out into the real world and find the PROBLEM and solve it.

Joan Burton and her cohorts are unable to provide the pre-election promised jobs (5 point plan, 5 point plan, 5 point plan, etc.,etc,.) and really do need something controversial to take our minds off it.
FAS courses, internships, and any amount of training are not jobs, they are there to give the jobless an interest and if you have thousands training, they are not on the live register figures.
As for how successful they are, I doubt many out of FAS walk into jobs these days. Look at the course choices, haven't we thousands already experienced signing on?

I wonder, does Dear Joan have it in her mind that the half a million of us out of work are bone idle wasters and glad we live in a politically engineered depression?

caseyann

They finally read boards.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jobseekers-will-get-euro50aweek-dole-topup-to-take-internships-2643204.html

Jobseekers will get €50-a-week dole top-up to take internships

THE Government will pay an unemployed person a €50-a-week top-up to leave the dole queue and get work experience.

A National Internship Scheme offering 5,000 places -- each for up to nine months -- for people currently on the Live Register is a key element of the new Jobs Initiative.

The internships will be in the public, private and community sectors and are open to both graduates and non-graduates, with a view to enhancing their employability.

There is one problem though.
People who dont have very good transport.And the ones who have kids and no child minders.
This end needs to be fixed and not harrass people when in bad circumstances.

For example: A woman i know with one child,school going age.She went for job interview and got offered the job.But had to decline it,as she couldn't leave her child at 7 in morning to travel ninety minutes to the job in question.Then to leave her child for ninety after school alone or more in the house was not plausible for her.

swordofislam

Now all we need are jobs. Do these scrotes not understand the difference between 4.5% and 16% those are the respective percentages on the dole in 2006 and today!

That said if you can work you should work!