Dole claimants who refuse offers of work will have payments cut

dan_d

I just can't believe there are people out there who would turn down a job offer after months on the dole.

Madness....

Overheal

swordofislam wrote: »

Now all we need are jobs.

Go find them. Or, (and this might cause people's heads to explode, so be prepared to scrape your brains off the ceiling) Make Them. Countless other examples out there, of course. Not nearly 1/3 of which require a whole lot of Capital to get started in.

Brussels Sprout

Overheal wrote: »

Go find them. Or, (and this might cause people's heads to explode, so be prepared to scrape your brains off the ceiling) Make Them. Countless other examples out there, of course. Not nearly 1/3 of which require a whole lot of Capital to get started in.

It's a good sentiment but if anything that link just reinforces the stereotype that people are born entrepeneurs rather than becoming them.

Ireland's bankruptcy laws and welfare system certainly don't encourage people to get out there and give it a shot either.

later12

Chief--- wrote: »

How the flying fcuk has this not always been the case??

I'm sure someobody may have already answered this already in this rather extensive thread, but very briefly, it is somewhat already the case. The Social Welfare Act 2010 provides for sanctions to be applied to the unemployed or under-employed who refuse to participate in jobs or training. It certain that the DSP could have done this, and most likely did do this, prior to that piece of legislation in itself, and will continue to do so in the future regardless of what the new Government claim to be implementing.

The short of it is, don't simply believe Ministers when they claim to be introducing something, possibly for publicity's sake, which has essentially existed already.

Tanzi

The reason we have so many people staying on the dole is that it is way to high. I was unemployed until 2 months ago, I had been looking for work in the graphic design area, as that's what my degree is in. The only jobs I was being offered where work placement programs, which basically means some company employes you but doesn't pay you, you get the dole and the experience. Eventually I found a payed job, but even with my degree it is minimum wage. I was on €362 dole, as I had two dependents, I was also getting €110 a week rent allowance, so I was getting €472 p/w from the government. With my job I only get €350 p/w and NO benefits at all, I took the job as I knew it was the best thing for my self esteem, my CV, and hopefully it would help me in the long run. Most people on social welfare would not have taken the job, there seems to be a general opinion among a lot of benefit claimer that 'why do work for money when you can get it for free'. 95% of my friends are unemployed , and only about 5% are actually looking for work. I think if ur on the dole more than a year, or even 6 months it should be halved. It is way too generous, when I was on it I was saving €50 p/w. Also I used to be a single mother, and there is NO incentives to work or even look work for most single mothers... there needs to be real serious reform in the social welfare, instead of making more unemployed by cutting guards, nurses, teachers etc... the system is screwed. Finished my rant now!

kerash

But this has always been the case - you have to prove to the Social Welfare that you are looking for work i.e you will be called in and asked if you're registered with fas and have evidence that you're actively looking for and available for work and if you turn down a reasonable job offer you get cut off.

Clareboy

Tanzi wrote: »

The reason we have so many people staying on the dole is that it is way to high. I was unemployed until 2 months ago, I had been looking for work in the graphic design area, as that's what my degree is in. The only jobs I was being offered where work placement programs, which basically means some company employes you but doesn't pay you, you get the dole and the experience. Eventually I found a payed job, but even with my degree it is minimum wage. I was on €362 dole, as I had two dependents, I was also getting €110 a week rent allowance, so I was getting €472 p/w from the government. With my job I only get €350 p/w and NO benefits at all, I took the job as I knew it was the best thing for my self esteem, my CV, and hopefully it would help me in the long run. Most people on social welfare would not have taken the job, there seems to be a general opinion among a lot of benefit claimer that 'why do work for money when you can get it for free'. 95% of my friends are unemployed , and only about 5% are actually looking for work. I think if ur on the dole more than a year, or even 6 months it should be halved. It is way too generous, when I was on it I was saving €50 p/w. Also I used to be a single mother, and there is NO incentives to work or even look work for most single mothers... there needs to be real serious reform in the social welfare, instead of making more unemployed by cutting guards, nurses, teachers etc... the system is screwed. Finished my rant now!

The reality is that if one is male, middle aged and Irish, the chances of getting a job in this country is as good as the proverbial ' snow ball's chance in hell'. Also, only a minority of dole recipients receive rent allowance. As a society, we have maginalised large sections of our own people. In other words, if you live in a certain area or speak in a certain way, you can forget about getting a job. Try living in this country on the basic single person's jobseekers allowance of €188 per week. Its not living, its just existing. You are so lucky to be offered a job, to have some self esteem left and a future to look forward to.

zom

Tanzi wrote: »

I was getting €472 p/w from the government. With my job I only get €350 p/w and NO benefits at all /..../ Also I used to be a single mother

Fair play to you Tanzi, but wonder who minds you kids while you're working??

seligehgit

About time.

caseyann

Tanzi wrote: »

The reason we have so many people staying on the dole is that it is way to high. I was unemployed until 2 months ago, I had been looking for work in the graphic design area, as that's what my degree is in. The only jobs I was being offered where work placement programs, which basically means some company employes you but doesn't pay you, you get the dole and the experience. Eventually I found a payed job, but even with my degree it is minimum wage. I was on €362 dole, as I had two dependents, I was also getting €110 a week rent allowance, so I was getting €472 p/w from the government. With my job I only get €350 p/w and NO benefits at all, I took the job as I knew it was the best thing for my self esteem, my CV, and hopefully it would help me in the long run. Most people on social welfare would not have taken the job, there seems to be a general opinion among a lot of benefit claimer that 'why do work for money when you can get it for free'. 95% of my friends are unemployed , and only about 5% are actually looking for work. I think if ur on the dole more than a year, or even 6 months it should be halved. It is way too generous, when I was on it I was saving €50 p/w. Also I used to be a single mother, and there is NO incentives to work or even look work for most single mothers... there needs to be real serious reform in the social welfare, instead of making more unemployed by cutting guards, nurses, teachers etc... the system is screwed. Finished my rant now!

How were you getting 362 dole as a single parent with only 2 kids?

kerash

caseyann wrote: »

How were you getting 362 dole as a single parent with only 2 kids?

One might be an adult dependent.

bonzos

There is also a blind eye being turned to the people who never worked and yet still manage to drive 11 reg Vans,4x4's and bmw's!!!I read my local paper(Sligo) every week and these people are in court getting a slap on the wrist despite constantly being convicted of crimes.Maybe the state should have the power to seize car's etc...at a lower more local level than CAB if no proof of income can be shown.Also maybe a 10% reduction in welfare would be a good idea or is that just not PC.

later12

bonzos wrote: »

There is also a blind eye being turned to the people who never worked and yet still manage to drive 11 reg Vans,4x4's and bmw's!!!

and spaceships. I heard they have spaceships.

PARKHEAD67

maynooth_rules wrote: »

This. I am tired of hearing this but nothing been done about it. There are plenty of examples in my town and towns all over the country of local drunks who have never worked a day in their life still getting the dole week in week out. Then if I were to lose my job tomorrow I get the exact same benefits as these toerags, if not less.
Rewarding single mothers needs to be an issue that is changed also

The single mothers issue is outrageous. In a lot of cases the father of the kid(s) is shacked up in the same house as the mother while she claims left , right & centre. Often, the boyfriend is in employment too. Its a shambles.

Tanzi

zom wrote: »

Fair play to you Tanzi, but wonder who minds you kids while you're working??

She's 11 years old, so in school from 9-3, then my partner minds her till I am home. He works evening's now, so it works out rosie!

Tanzi

caseyann wrote: »

How were you getting 362 dole as a single parent with only 2 kids?

I have one daughter and my partner was a full time student at the time, so he was also my dependent. It is way to much money in my opinion!

Tanzi

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

The single mothers issue is outrageous. In a lot of cases the father of the kid(s) is shacked up in the same house as the mother while she claims left , right & centre. Often, the boyfriend is in employment too. Its a shambles.

totally agree with you there. But I read something earlier on boards about everyone getting P***** off about people on Social Welfare, fraud and all that... but think about the bankers, the TD's and all the fraud, embezzlement and such that that has gone on. There is way too much greed and selfishness in society.

Tanzi

Clareboy wrote: »

The reality is that if one is male, middle aged and Irish, the chances of getting a job in this country is as good as the proverbial ' snow ball's chance in hell'. Also, only a minority of dole recipients receive rent allowance. As a society, we have maginalised large sections of our own people. In other words, if you live in a certain area or speak in a certain way, you can forget about getting a job. Try living in this country on the basic single person's jobseekers allowance of €188 per week. Its not living, its just existing. You are so lucky to be offered a job, to have some self esteem left and a future to look forward to.

cheers, but I was not 'just offered a job', I spent lots of time applying to place's, upgrading my CV. Going to interviews. It is the only way to go forward is to take a few knocks along the way!

end a eknny

Clareboy wrote: »

The reality is that if one is male, middle aged and Irish, the chances of getting a job in this country is as good as the proverbial ' snow ball's chance in hell'. Also, only a minority of dole recipients receive rent allowance. As a society, we have maginalised large sections of our own people. In other words, if you live in a certain area or speak in a certain way, you can forget about getting a job. Try living in this country on the basic single person's jobseekers allowance of €188 per week. Its not living, its just existing. You are so lucky to be offered a job, to have some self esteem left and a future to look forward to.

surely if you are unemployed and living off people who are working you should be just existing otherwise why would the people who bother to get out of bed and go to work bother at all

Clareboy

end a eknny wrote: »

surely if you are unemployed and living off people who are working you should be just existing otherwise why would the people who bother to get out of bed and go to work bother at all

The point that I am making is that some people are always on about ' our lavish welfare payments', but none of those people actually have to live on welfare. I have worked all my life until recently. I started working when I was 15 years of age - I am in my 50s now, so I have contributed to this country.

Tanzi

Clareboy wrote: »

The point that I am making is that some people are always on about ' our lavish welfare payments', but none of those people actually have to live on welfare. I have worked all my life until recently. I started working when I was 15 years of age - I am in my 50s now, so I have contributed to this country.

Fair enough, you are probably someone who deserves the help that the welfare offers. I do not begrudge you a cent. Your not a lifetime dole claimer like so many out there. I would like to see some kind of change brought about to get people actively looking for work, helping in their communities, anything really that keeps peoples mental minds active. The longer people procrastinate the more difficult it is to get out of a situation. I am in my mid 20's, and see so many people my age in Clare making NO effort to find work, a lot live at home and spend their dole on drink, weed, (and other drugs), and because they are not working they have made their lifestyles their occupations. I do think the welfare is important, but as a tool to help people in difficulty, not as a lifestyle choice. Oh I love to rant!

djpbarry

Clareboy wrote: »

The reality is that if one is male, middle aged and Irish, the chances of getting a job in this country is as good as the proverbial ' snow ball's chance in hell'.

My parents are both in their mid-50’s, have both been unemployed for quite some time now and both have adopted the mindset that they are unemployable, which is complete nonsense in my opinion. I accept that it’s difficult for them to find work at the moment (although my mother has turned down 2 interviews), but I absolutely refuse to believe that there is literally nothing that they can do with themselves.

Clareboy wrote: »

Try living in this country on the basic single person's jobseekers allowance of €188 per week.

I think it’s reasonable to assume that most people in Ireland have experienced a period out of work. It should not be too much of a struggle for a single person without dependents to support themselves on €188 per week. As I said above, both my parents seem pretty content to live on welfare.

djpbarry

Tanzi wrote: »

But I read something earlier on boards about everyone getting P***** off about people on Social Welfare, fraud and all that... but think about the bankers, the TD's and all the fraud, embezzlement and such that that has gone on.

It’s posts like this that lead me to question whether the average person in Ireland has any idea how absolutely colossal the state’s welfare bill is. TDs’ dodgy expenses claims, for example, are, quite literally, a drop in the ocean by comparison. Take for example Ivor Callely’s claim of €81,000 – that’ll cover 10 Jobseekers claims for about 10 months. Nobody's going to convince me that there aren't at least 10 dodgy Jobseekers claims out there - I personally know of two.

Clareboy

Tanzi wrote: »

Fair enough, you are probably someone who deserves the help that the welfare offers. I do not begrudge you a cent. Your not a lifetime dole claimer like so many out there. I would like to see some kind of change brought about to get people actively looking for work, helping in their communities, anything really that keeps peoples mental minds active. The longer people procrastinate the more difficult it is to get out of a situation. I am in my mid 20's, and see so many people my age in Clare making NO effort to find work, a lot live at home and spend their dole on drink, weed, (and other drugs), and because they are not working they have made their lifestyles their occupations. I do think the welfare is important, but as a tool to help people in difficulty, not as a lifestyle choice. Oh I love to rant!

I agree with you, younger people should not be allowed to hang around at home doing nothing. Lets face it, there is plenty of work to be done out there. I do some voluntary work in my community and I can see that for the most part, its the older people that tend to get involved in projects to improve their communities. Anyway, rant away!

Laisurg

Chief--- wrote: »

How the flying fcuk has this not always been the case??

Have you not noticed we live in Ireland? After what happened with the banks we're capable of anything! but to be honest this might be good, could get people out and working which is always a good thing, better for a guy to get out there and do something rather than spending most of his life sitting around doing nothing.

Clareboy

djpbarry wrote: »

My parents are both in their mid-50’s, have both been unemployed for quite some time now and both have adopted the mindset that they are unemployable, which is complete nonsense in my opinion. I accept that it’s difficult for them to find work at the moment (although my mother has turned down 2 interviews), but I absolutely refuse to believe that there is literally nothing that they can do with themselves.
I think it’s reasonable to assume that most people in Ireland have experienced a period out of work. It should not be too much of a struggle for a single person without dependents to support themselves on €188 per week. As I said above, both my parents seem pretty content to live on welfare.

The reality is that most unemployed people in their 50s are unemployable. I did various courses for seven years and I am no more employable now than when I started. I did an interview recently and the lady that interviewed me kept referring to her staff as " The Girls". The interviewer was in her 20s and as a male in my 50s, I was thinking to myself " what am I doing here ". Needless to mention, I have never heard from them again. Ageism is a big problem is this country and there is also a widespread anti male attitude among employers.

Brussels Sprout

Clareboy wrote: »

... and there is also a widespread anti male attitude among employers.

Why do you say this?

A lot of smaller employers will take men over women purely based on the perception that there will be disruption in women's careers due to maternity leave.

dan_d

kerash wrote: »

But this has always been the case - you have to prove to the Social Welfare that you are looking for work i.e you will be called in and asked if you're registered with fas and have evidence that you're actively looking for and available for work and if you turn down a reasonable job offer you get cut off.

I've never been asked by SW to prove I'm looking for work

I have to prove it every month to the insurance company covering my mortgage payments alright - all the paperwork, of any company I might have had any contact with at all during the month, no matter how slight. But not SW.

In theory, you have to. In practice...well, as far as I can see, nobody's checking. I happen to be someone who is frantically looking (and wishing) that I had a job and spending every day trying to come up with some solution to the situation I'm in. (no joy yet, by the way!). But if you're not that kind of person, as far as I can see, nobody's looking. Mind you, if they did come looking, I'd be charging them for the large quantity of paper and ink it would require for me to print out all the emails, applications and rejection emails (and photocopy the rejection letters that came in the post) that I've got since I was made unemployed last year. Someone on another thread used the phrase "I could paper a room with rejection letters." Well, ditto.

I still can't believe anyone would turn a job offer down after a long time on the dole.

caseyann

Tanzi wrote: »

I have one daughter and my partner was a full time student at the time, so he was also my dependent. It is way to much money in my opinion!

You said you were a single parent.

If it was way to much money for you and your partner and daughter why didn't you hand it back,and tell them you didn't need that much.I am sure they would obliged you by cutting it down.
I know a girl who did just that with her payments.

irishh_bob

Clareboy wrote: »

The reality is that most unemployed people in their 50s are unemployable. I did various courses for seven years and I am no more employable now than when I started. I did an interview recently and the lady that interviewed me kept referring to her staff as " The Girls". The interviewer was in her 20s and as a male in my 50s, I was thinking to myself " what am I doing here ". Needless to mention, I have never heard from them again. Ageism is a big problem is this country and there is also a widespread anti male attitude among employers.

your half right , while thier is a bias towards women in almost every scenario , the ageism is biased towards the elderly, pensioners havent seen any wellfare cuts since the rescession began where as the under 25,s have seen thier job seekers allowance halved , when it comes to the area of teaching , we hear report of retired teachers being reemployed to work as substitute teachers while recently qualified young teachers are passed over