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Who do you think Jesus was

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    #152
    Hookah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hookah


    Wicknight wrote: »

    More blindness on his part. He knows the truth, he just can't admit it to himself. Until he does he will continue to be unable to see the truth.



    Good luck in converting him to your beliefs.


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    #153
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    koth wrote: »
    This is the passage that says it's ok to marry children:
    Here are what Noble Verses 65:1,4 say in English
    O Prophet, when you [Muslims] divorce women, divorce them for [the commencement of] their waiting period and keep count of the waiting period, and fear Allah , your Lord. Do not turn them out of their [husbands'] houses, nor should they [themselves] leave [during that period] unless they are committing a clear immorality. And those are the limits [set by] Allah . And whoever transgresses the limits of Allah has certainly wronged himself. You know not; perhaps Allah will bring about after that a [different] matter.http://quran.com/65
    And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.
    http://quran.com/65/4
    These verses are talking about divorce of women than there are three catagories of woman
    a. Women who are very old.
    b. Women who have not had their monthly period at the time of the divorce.
    c. Women who are pregnant at the time of the divorce.

    point b doesn't mean young girl but it is clearly talking about the wife not having her period yet when the divorce happened. Women on average have 10 days of menstruation each month. Point b is speaking about the 20 other days.
    The Verses that I quoted are clear that children or teenager aren't allowed to married.
    koth wrote: »
    because I don't accept the bible as truth, the age of aisha is wrongl stated in the hadith?
    I also don't accept hadith all the time as truth. Truth is Quran and quran doesn't say anything about age of ayesha.


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    #154
    Hookah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hookah


    koth wrote: »




    because I don't accept the bible as truth, the age of aisha is wrongl stated in the hadith?

    Does that 'for those who have no courses' refer to kids or women in menopause?


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    #155
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,733 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    dead one wrote: »
    Here are what Noble Verses 65:1,4 say in English

    These verses are talking about divorce of women than there are three catagories of woman
    a. Women who are very old.
    b. Women who have not had their monthly period at the time of the divorce.
    c. Women who are pregnant at the time of the divorce.

    point b doesn't mean young girl but it is clearly talking about the wife not having her period yet when the divorce happened. Women on average have 10 days of menstruation each month. Point b is speaking about the 20 other days.
    The Verses that I quoted are clear that children or teenager aren't allowed to married.

    I also don't accept hadith all the time as truth. Truth is Quran and quran doesn't say anything about age of ayesha.
    they have a special clause for women who have no menstruated since they were married? The translation says those who have not menstruated. It says nothing about that meaning since she was married. You're adding that in yourself. Even the version of the text you posted doesn't say what you've said.
    Hookah wrote: »
    Does that 'for those who have no courses' refer to kids or women in menopause?

    From what I've read, it refers to kids.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #156
    Hookah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hookah


    koth wrote: »


    From what I've read, it refers to kids.

    Here's a different translation of the passage...

    'As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. And as for those whose menstruation has ceased, and those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him'

    I'm still not convinced it's about kids.


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    #157
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,733 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Hookah wrote: »
    Here's a different translation of the passage...

    'As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. And as for those whose menstruation has ceased, and those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him'

    I'm still not convinced it's about kids.

    that makes no sense.
    For women who have reached menopause........ And for those whose menstruations has ceased.....
    Surely thats the same thing? :confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #158
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    koth wrote: »
    that makes no sense.

    Surely thats the same thing? :confused:

    Maybe they mean from ill health etc? :confused: It is a bit confusing


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    #159
    Hookah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hookah


    koth wrote: »
    that makes no sense.

    Surely thats the same thing? :confused:
    bluewolf wrote: »
    Maybe they mean from ill health etc? :confused: It is a bit confusing

    On the pill?

    He was a bit of a visionary, Mohammad.


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    #160
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,733 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Hookah wrote: »
    On the pill?

    He was a bit of a visionary, Mohammad.

    :p:D

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #161
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Maybe they mean from ill health etc? :confused: It is a bit confusing

    maybe he means the day when she finally stops acting crazy...am i right men?.....high five!


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    #162
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,733 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Maybe they mean from ill health etc? :confused: It is a bit confusing

    but why not just refer to them all as "women whose menstruation has ceased"? Like you say, it is a bit confusing.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #163
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    sensibleken wrote: »
    maybe he means the day when she finally stops acting crazy...am i right men?.....high five!

    ...
    Don't make me get violent :pac:


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    #164
    Hookah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hookah


    Here's a slightly different translation...

    [65:4] As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him.

    And so on...


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    #165
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    koth wrote: »
    they have a special clause for women who have no menstruated since they were married? The translation says those who have not menstruated. It says nothing about that meaning since she was married. You're adding that in yourself. Even the version of the text you posted doesn't say what you've said.

    I ain't sure girl having her first period makes her capable for marriage or not. Islam doesn't say anything about. Some girls do get their first periods later than others. Here period isn't issue. These are physical and mental properties / capabilities of the girl that God clearly talked about in the Holy Quran.


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    #166
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Hookah wrote: »
    Good luck in converting him to your beliefs.

    When he realizes the consequences of his beliefs he will convert. I just hope for his sake it is not too late for him.


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    #167
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    dead one wrote: »
    Alright tell me why i should believe in man made books which carry misstatements. You are saying that i should admit "Muhammad Raped children" and i have to admit this fact by reading those books which were written by mens. If that is case than why you don't believe Bible as inspired of God, why Jesus Christ isn't your Lord, why you investigate bible with truth. Answer why i should believe "Muhammad Raped children" by reading man made books. I can only believe "Muhammad raped children" if you can show it to me from Koran.

    You cannot accept the truth when you continue with your held assumptions, assumptions you only hold on to because of your own biases. You have to let this go and be prepared to look at the truth with an open heart and an open mind.

    Unless you are prepared to clear your prejudice from your mind it will make as much sense as trying to explain colour to a blind man.
    dead one wrote: »
    Yes help me, So i can see what you have!!!
    You have to be honest in this claim dead one, it cannot be simply an excercise to prove yourself right. Until you realize you are wrong I cannot show you what is right.

    If you cannot be genuine with yourself I can't be genuine with you.
    dead one wrote: »
    Tell, have you seen the truth with your own eyes or the truth is man made history and it is also proved history is full of liars.

    I have seen the truth. But I was also prepared to open my eyes. If your eyes are closed you will not see the truth even if you are looking at it.
    dead one wrote: »
    Alright what is evidence for truth.

    The evidence is irrelevant if you cannot see it. If your eyes are closed you will never see what is presented to you. You first have to open your eyes.


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    #168
    Hookah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hookah


    Wicknight wrote: »
    When he realizes the consequences of his beliefs he will convert.
    Wicknight wrote: »
    You cannot accept the truth....

    You have to let this go and be prepared to look at the truth ....

    ...Until you realize you are wrong I cannot show you what is right...

    ...I have seen the truth...

    ...You first have to open your eyes...

    You're almost missionary in your zeal.


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    #169
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Hookah wrote: »
    You're almost missionary in your zeal.

    I think it's pronounced 'parody'. ;)


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    #170
    Hookah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hookah


    strobe wrote: »
    I think it's pronounced 'parody'. ;)

    I hope so.


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    #171
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    Hookah wrote: »
    I hope so.

    Wicknight is scaring the **** out of me...


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    #172
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    strobe wrote: »
    I think it's pronounced 'parody'. ;)

    Ahhh, way to ruin it strobe, you big ruiner :D

    Though I wouldn't call it parody as much as a carbon copy of the BS dead one and his ilk use on this forum.

    It was interesting, if also some what amusing, to see dead one get more and more exasperated when he was on the other end of this sort of nonsense posting.

    There is of course no response to this style of posting. You simply repeatably informing the person that I have the truth and he doesn't. He stated he wanted me to explain it to him, he stated he wanted evidence, he stated he wanted references. And I just kept telling him I have the truth and he doesn't. And he got more and more frustrated.

    I think I could have easily got another few pages out of him before he completely lost the plot.

    Though whether he would have realized the point of th exercise I'm not so sure. :p


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    #173
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Wicknight wrote: »
    You cannot accept the truth when you continue with your held assumptions, assumptions you only hold on to because of your own biases. You have to let this go and be prepared to look at the truth with an open heart and an open mind.
    What are my assumptions, Even if i assume things for welfare of humanity than what is wrong with my assumptions. You assume Muhammad was psycho path, he was rapper, he was unjust etc.
    "Well, if a psychopath has the power to give a fresh direction to the course of human history, it is a point of the highest psychological interest to search his original experience which has turned slaves into leaders of men, and has inspired the conduct and shaped the career of whole races of mankind. Judging from the various types of activity that emanated from the movement initiated by the Prophet of Islam, his spiritual tension and the kind of behaviour which issued from it, cannot be regarded as a response to a mere fantasy inside his brain. It is impossible to understand it except as a response to an objective situation generative of new enthusiasms, new organizations, new starting-points. If we look at the matter from the standpoint of anthropology it appears that a psychopath is an important factor in the economy of humanity’s social organization. His way is not to classify facts and discover causes: he thinks in terms of life and movement with a view to create new patterns of behaviour for mankind. No doubt he has his pitfalls and illusions just as the scientist who relies on sense-experience has his pitfalls and illusions. A careful study of his method, however, shows that he is not less alert than the scientist in the matter of eliminating the alloy of illusion from his experience."
    Wicknight wrote: »
    Unless you are prepared to clear your prejudice from your mind it will make as much sense as trying to explain colour to a blind man.
    Why you are hiding truth from me, tell and explain me, Why you are afraid, you have the truth. Truth never fears . Explain the truth openly.
    Wicknight wrote: »
    You have to be honest in this claim dead one, it cannot be simply an excercise to prove yourself right. Until you realize you are wrong I cannot show you what is right.
    I am honest, i realize that Muhammad raped children and what is source for this, distorted man made history. Is it honesty?. Even if muhammad raped the children a rapper can't bring revolution on earth. This is greater injustice what you are relating to a man who was so kind, He fought many wars but didn't killed a single person, He never lied in his whole life why i should believe he raped children, Even you didn't clear your source what is truth!!!!!
    Wicknight wrote: »
    If you cannot be genuine with yourself I can't be genuine with you.
    You are just putting theories as you believe in theories. I am genuine with myself, if you have the truth you can convince me. But alas!
    Wicknight wrote: »
    I have seen the truth. But I was also prepared to open my eyes. If your eyes are closed you will not see the truth even if you are looking at it.
    It looks like you are talking in spiritual way, Tell me what you have seen in the truth. In every dust-grain the appearance of the True Beloved (God) is showing itself to us. Every grain is a mirror of His beauty. How many mirrors our ardor for sight created!


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    #174
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    dead one wrote: »
    What are my assumptions, Even if i assume things for welfare of humanity than what is wrong with my assumptions. You assume Muhammad was psycho path, he was rapper, he was unjust etc.

    Muhammad the rapper ha ha
    In da house yo!!!


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    #175
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Muhammad the rapper ha ha
    In da house yo!!!

    Mo money, mo problems aaaaaaaight!


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    #176
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    dead one wrote: »
    What are my assumptions

    dead one I could write a book on your assumptions ;)


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    #177
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Wicknight wrote: »
    dead one I could write a book on your assumptions ;)
    Is that truth on your part?:rolleyes:


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    #178
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Muhammad the rapper ha ha
    In da house yo!!!
    "Madam"! would you kindly listen to "madman"?


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    #179
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    dead one wrote: »
    Is that truth on your part?:rolleyes:

    Look into your heart, you know the answer ... ;)


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    #180
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Look into your heart, you know the answer ... ;)

    I see it! the answer is atrium! now to spend 2000 years figuring out the question :)


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    #181
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Wicknight wrote: »
    I could write a book on your assumptions ;)
    Wouldn't bother. Mohammed already has.


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