Digital Switchover - UTV Region (DigitalUK)

lucernarian

Peter Rhea wrote: »

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitternetwork/tools__and__resources/almanac/pdfs/DSOTx_Northern_Ireland_Jan12v2.0.pdf

See Kilkeel's got a bit of a boost (up from 200W iirc?).

Correct and right, it's now up to its full allocated power (Assuming Ch39 is supposed to say 400W). I had pointed out when revision 1 was released that it was put down at 200W despite having legroom for higher power.

Mike 1972

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Around this area of Jordanstown, analogue reception from Divis is OK with only slight ghosting.

A lot of terrestrial aerials (at least a third) still point towards divis rather than Carnmoney Hill, even though the Carnmoney Hill transmitter is visble. After DSO, I would imagine freeview reception from Divis will be fine I this area. Not sure about the RTE mini mux from black Mountain.

There are at least two reasons why it makes sense when possible to use Divis (or any other Main TX) rather than Carnmoney (or any other relay).
1) Freeview available now
2) More reliability (fewer failure points)

The presence or otherwise of (analouge) Channel 5 should give some indication of what digital reception from Blackmountain might be like although why they dont put the lot on from Divis isint entirely clear

Ronnie Raygun

Mike 1972 wrote: »

The presence or otherwise of (analouge) Channel 5 should give some indication of what digital reception from Blackmountain might be like although why they dont put the lot on from Divis isint entirely clear

Would BM have better coverage of the area where the pressure came from to have this minimux in the 1st place?

Souriau

Mike 1972 wrote: »

The presence or otherwise of (analouge) Channel 5 should give some indication of what digital reception from Blackmountain might be like

Am I understanding this correct
Anyone who is receiving Channel Five now have a good chance of receiving RTE Mini-Mux from Black Mountain?

reslfj

Souriau wrote: »

Am I understanding this correct
Anyone who is receiving Channel Five now have a good chance of receiving RTE Mini-Mux from Black Mountain?

Yes, it may even be a little more robust than analogue ch5 - except maybe if the MiniMux UHF channel is out of aerial group.

The UHF channel number to be used has not yet been published.

Lars

Mr. Rabbit

reslfj wrote: »

Yes, it may even be a little more robust than analogued ch5 - except maybe if the MiniMux UHF channel is out of aerial group.

The UHF channel number to be used has not yet been published.

Lars

Black Mountain analogue reception of channel 5 isn't that great in Jordanstown, even with Cambrett Hill gone although it's better on some TVs than others. It's somewhat snowy, although this is understandable given that it's a tenth of the power of Divis (only 50kw). I've a wide band aerial at present.

Freeview from Divis is OK on all channels, most of the time, other than 23 (34 is the best) and except when there's a lift, so I'm not sure how 1/2 kw from Black Mountain would fare.

There could possibly be other areas, other than those served by Carnmoney Hill, that may use Carnmoney Hill for RTE reception when the mini mux is up and running, even though it's only 16w ERP. North Down for example(e.g. Bangor/Holywood etc.)

watty

Yes, perfectly. The Down side of Belfast lough has no problem with Divis.


It's Serpentine Road, parts of Antrim road, and other places blocked by Cavehill that can't get Divis or Blackmountain and use Carnmoney. Depends where you are in Jordanstown as to which is better.

Parts of West Belfast might get Blackmountain better than Divis.

Whitehead blocked by the Blahole
Most of Islandmagee could get nothing till the Islandmagee relay added, A lot of people there use Sky for main TV and freesat for extra TVs

Mr. Rabbit

The Down side of Belfast lough has no problem with Divis

Not completely Watty.

Both Bangor and Conlig have small low powered relay stations so Divis musn't be that great. I'm also not sure how a 1/2 kw signal from Black Mountain would fare in either Holywood or Bangor post DSO. Carnmoney Hill might be a better option.

Most of Islandmagee could get nothing till the Islandmagee relay added

I take it you mean the Whitehead relay ?

As far as I remember (I used to work at Premier Power and drove up the Island every day) many aerials on Islandmagee actually point towards Divis. Most of the newer houses on the north end use the Larne transmitter (or possibly Glynn).

I would imagine Darvel, Cambrett Hill, Stranraer, and Port Patrick would also be receivable on eastern parts of the Island (Port Muck etc.).

watty

I'd regard Whitehead as being in Islandmagee. Even if mysteriously it isn't they can call it a Whitehead relay, but I can see the mast and it's in Islandmagee on a hill top.

Depends where you are on the Island as to what you point your aerial at. My brother certainly can only get Larne.

Obviously there are always pockets in coverage areas that can't get main sites. The UK has been much more generous with Relays by 1982 than RTE was.

Currently my own "main reception" is Woodcock, but I can see spectrum of at least 4 other transmitter sites.

NorthDown2

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Not completely Watty.

Both Bangor and Conlig have small low powered relay stations so Divis musn't be that great. I'm also not sure how a 1/2 kw signal from Black Mountain would fare in either Holywood or Bangor post DSO. Carnmoney Hill might be a better option.

In fact the relays are for only a small number of houses. re Bangor : There is an area in the middle of Bangor (lower Main Street, lower part of High street and especially Gray's Hill) that has had difficulty receiving Divis. The roads there are going down to sea level and with small hills blocking the direct line of sight the relay was needed. I would estimate over 95% of the residents of Bangor use Divis with no problem.

Conlig. If you look at OS maps, you'll find there's a mound on the west side of the village that blocks the signal. I think Helen's Tower is on it. The relay was needed for the houses in its shadow. The mound can cause problems for RTE reception in parts of Bangor (not aided by the cochannel from Whitehead). Incidentally the dual carriageway between Bangor and Newtownards allows good reception of BBC Radio Cumbria 95.6 - folks in Clonlig had been taking signals from Scotland in the past.

Mr. Rabbit

I would estimate over 95% of the residents of Bangor use Divis with no problem.

Yes, and I would imagine it shold be OK post DSO with the increase in power of Freeview from Divis (100/50kw)

My point was that the proposed RTE mini mux, only 1/2 KW from Black Mountain, may have problems reaching Bangor.

Carnmoney Hill, just across the lough and more or less line of sight , might be a better alternative.

I'd regard Whitehead as being in Islandmagee

Indeed, technically it is, but very few houses on Islandmagee get their TV from the Whitehead transmitter (it really only serves those on the western side of the town.). Most of the island receives it's TV from either the Divis or Larne transmitters (and possibly Glynn)

watty

But The mini-mux is obviously for people in Suffolk, Blacksroad etc and not for people in Bangor They can afford dishes.

Possibly Island Village uses the Islandmagee/Whitehead relay. Maybe also most of Ballycarry, certainly the houses on the Rawbrae.

Digifriendly

watty wrote: »

But The mini-mux is obviously for people in Suffolk, Blacksroad etc and not for people in Bangor They can afford dishes.

Possibly Island Village uses the Islandmagee/Whitehead relay. Maybe also most of Ballycarry, certainly the houses on the Rawbrae.

Methinks many 'Protestants' in North Down and East Belfast will be delighted to get RTE especially for the sport (if its not blacked out) and its free unlike with Sky where you have to pay for it.

watty

Well, I know people that have RTE on virgin cable in Belfast. As well as sky!

Souriau

The Divis Transmitter works 8 February 2012

Engineering transmitter work will take place between 00:01hrs and 06:00hrs.
TV services that will be disrupted:

• Analogue services - BBC2, ITV and Channel 4 will be subject to periods of shutdown.
• Digital services - Mux1, MuxA and MuxB will be subject to periods of shutdown.

channnels

I'd expect Arqiva are moving the analogue services onto a temporary transmit aerial in advance of shutdown. Possibly swapping the Freeview muxes over to the current analogue transmit aerial as well?

Peter Rhea

Aren't there still 2 masts on Divis? Probably no need to move anything.

Those channels are the ones being used after ASO, maybe it's tests of a new aerial; when do they usually carry out full-power tests?

mrdtv2010

From various sites:

Divis Transmitter works 8 February 2012
Quote:
Engineering transmitter work will take place between 00:01hrs and 06:00hrs.
TV services that will be disrupted:

Analogue services - BBC2, UTV and Channel 4 will be subject to periods of shutdown.

Digital services - Mux1, MuxA and MuxB will be subject to periods of shutdown.
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/how_do_i_...ineering_works

Note the analogue frequencies are being shut down tonight probably as part of a standard Arqiva high power test: LCNs are not transmitted during the tests. The only way to assess the strength of the signal is to perform manual tuning. The frequencies to use are 21, 24 and 27 IIRC. These receivers will show signal strength and quality depending on receiver software: very interesting for RoI viewers who are also nightowls!These will be the post DSO PSB frequencies. These tests are likely to go on for months exactly as in GB.

The giveaway is the shutdown of the analogue services tonight: the high power tests will be transmitted from Divis B, the new mast.

lawhec

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

From various sites:

Divis Transmitter works 8 February 2012
Quote:
Engineering transmitter work will take place between 00:01hrs and 06:00hrs.
TV services that will be disrupted:

Analogue services - BBC2, UTV and Channel 4 will be subject to periods of shutdown.

Digital services - Mux1, MuxA and MuxB will be subject to periods of shutdown.
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/how_do_i_...ineering_works

Note the analogue frequencies are being shut down tonight probably as part of a standard Arqiva high power test: LCNs are not transmitted during the tests. The only way to assess the strength of the signal is to perform manual tuning. The frequencies to use are 21, 24 and 27 IIRC. These receivers will show signal strength and quality depending on receiver software: very interesting for RoI viewers who are also nightowls!These will be the post DSO PSB frequencies. These tests are likely to go on for months exactly as in GB.

The giveaway is the shutdown of the analogue services tonight: the high power tests will be transmitted from Divis B, the new mast.

The shutdown of Muxs 1, A & B on E29, 23 & 26 also seem to indicate that the COM multiplexes will be tested as well.

I'm back home at my parents tonight (family reasons!) and if I'm still up around 1am I might have a poke to see how the PSB multiplexes come through on a well off-beam Brougher Mountain pointing Group A aerial. 21/24/27 should be clear, but it'll be interesting to see how they might affect Muxs A, B & C from Brougher Mountain (E23/26/29) whom I assume are not shutting down for these tests?

mrdtv2010

lawhec wrote: »

The shutdown of Muxs 1, A & B on E29, 23 & 26 also seem to indicate that the COM multiplexes will be tested as well.

I'm back home at my parents tonight (family reasons!) and if I'm still up around 1am I might have a poke to see how the PSB multiplexes come through on a well off-beam Brougher Mountain pointing Group A aerial. 21/24/27 should be clear, but it'll be interesting to see how they might affect Muxs A, B & C from Brougher Mountain (E23/26/29) whom I assume are not shutting down for these tests?

These tests go on for months: they are still testing in London with only a few weeks left to run. WRT Divis the PSB frequencies will probably be tested at full power as these channels are used by analogue in NI and will be cleared tonight. The COM muxes have 'relationships' with Caldbeck and Three Rock so they may be more cautious. I must admit its pretty quick after the installation of Divis B to get going, and as you say Brougher and Limavady will not be disturbed. 100kW from the Divis B site will be a belter from the new antenna system. To see the signal parameters you have to do a manual tune as the NIT can't be changed until DSO and there are no LCNs transmitted, but it will be highly revealing in ROI. Standby for lots of NI tests between now and the Olympics system lockdown.

Mr. Rabbit

A TV station everyone appears to have forgotten about is Northern Visions TV which broadcasts to the greater Belfast area on channel 62. What's goiung to happen to them after 24th October 2012 ? Will they be required to shut the transmitter down ?

Also, the low powered TG 4 transmitter at Divis on channel 58. I assume this will also cease broadcasting on that date ?

Does this mean the new mini mux will probably start on 24th October ?

Souriau

E24 off-air, UTV
E21 off-air. Ch.4
E23 off-air. Mux A
E26 off-air. Mux B

The Cush

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Does this mean the new mini mux will probably start on 24th October ?

Most likely unless of course the allocated frequencies are available before then.

Souriau

Reading taken with Emitor Digiair Pro before the test
K18 aerial

---

SNR----Pre BER----Post BER---MER
Mux 1--29--32.4 dBµv--18.3 dB--4.30E-03--1.50E-07--18.1 dB
Mux 2--33--33.0 dBµv--18.3 dB--3.40E-02--5.60E-05--20.4 dB
Mux A--23--37.3 dBµv--23.1 dB--6.00E-03--1.00E-08--23.8 dB
Mux B--26--34.7 dBµv--21.0 dB--2.30E-03--2.90E-07--22.1 dB
Mux C--48--36.5 dBµv--21.2 dB--1.30E-03--1.00E-08--21.9 dB
Mux D--34--36.1 dBµv--22.0 dB--7.40E-03--1.60E-07--22.7 dB

Reading taken with Emitor Digiair Pro during the test
K18 aerial

---

SNR----Pre BER----Post BER--MER
BBC A--27--51.0 dBµv-->31 dB--6.60E-04--1.00E-08--30.7 dB
D 3&4--21--52.3 dBµv-->31 dB--2.70E-04--1.00E-08--30.0 dB
SDN----23--51.3 dBµv-->31 dB--5.00E-04--1.00E-08--30.8 dB
BBC B--24--52.6 dBµv-- No reading, as it is DVB-T2
Arq A---26

---

Nothing transmitted
Arq B---29--48.9 dBµv--30.0 dB--1.40E-03--1.00E-08--29.1 dB


E21-Ch4, E24-UTV, E27-BBC2, E23-Mux A, E26-Mux B, E29-Mux 1
were off-air during the test

E31-BBC1, E33-Mux 2, E34-Mux D, E48-Mux C stayed on-air

Mr. Rabbit

Checked the signal strengths on my Toshiba TV (with SD Freeview tuner) of all the stations were off air and all were end stopping (normally only 60 odd %)

Should be excellent around here after DSO

The Freeview signal from Divis should also reach a lot of areas that currently have no signal.

mrdtv2010

Souriau wrote: »

Reading taken with Emitor Digiair Pro before the test
K18 aerial

---

SNR----Pre BER----Post BER---MER
Mux 1--29--32.4 dBµv--18.3 dB--4.30E-03--1.50E-07--18.1 dB
Mux 2--33--33.0 dBµv--18.3 dB--3.40E-02--5.60E-05--20.4 dB
Mux A--23--37.3 dBµv--23.1 dB--6.00E-03--1.00E-08--23.8 dB
Mux B--26--34.7 dBµv--21.0 dB--2.30E-03--2.90E-07--22.1 dB
Mux C--48--36.5 dBµv--21.2 dB--1.30E-03--1.00E-08--21.9 dB
Mux D--34--36.1 dBµv--22.0 dB--7.40E-03--1.60E-07--22.7 dB

Reading taken with Emitor Digiair Pro during the test
K18 aerial

---

SNR----Pre BER----Post BER--MER
BBC A--27--51.0 dBµv-->31 dB--6.60E-04--1.00E-08--30.7 dB
D 3&4--21--52.3 dBµv-->31 dB--2.70E-04--1.00E-08--30.0 dB
SDN----23--51.3 dBµv-->31 dB--5.00E-04--1.00E-08--30.8 dB
BBC B--24--52.6 dBµv-- No reading, as it is DVB-T2
Arq A---26

---

Nothing transmitted
Arq B---29--48.9 dBµv--30.0 dB--1.40E-03--1.00E-08--29.1 dB


E21-Ch4, E24-UTV, E27-BBC2, E23-Mux A, E26-Mux B, E29-Mux 1
were off-air during the test

E31-BBC1, E33-Mux 2, E34-Mux D, E48-Mux C stayed on-air

Very interesting results with a meter, I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't a full power run as they normally start low and work up. Keep an eye on the DUK web site for further tests in the dead of night....

Mr. Rabbit

Channel 23 also seems stronger today with no breaking up of the signal (hadn't been great over the last couple of weeks).

mrdtv2010

They didn't wait long:

The Divis Transmitter works 9 February 2012
Engineering transmitter work will take place between 00:01hrs and 06:00hrs.
TV services that will be disrupted:
Analogue services - BBC2, ITV and Channel 4 will be subject to periods of shutdown.
Digital services - Mux1, MuxA and MuxB will be subject to periods of shutdown.

tsue921i8wljb3

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

They didn't wait long:

The Divis Transmitter works 9 February 2012
Engineering transmitter work will take place between 00:01hrs and 06:00hrs.
TV services that will be disrupted:
Analogue services - BBC2, ITV and Channel 4 will be subject to periods of shutdown.
Digital services - Mux1, MuxA and MuxB will be subject to periods of shutdown.

I am in north Meath and have an aerial pointed at Divis for analogue. Last night I tried manually tuning in 21, 24(DVB-T2 so wasn't expecting anything) and 27 using a Philips 32PFL8404 that is receiving Saorview from Clermont Carn.

The TV seemed to hover over scanning both 21 and 27 for example when you scan a known frequency with no digital signal the set instantly says "No Channels Found". However it was scanning 21 and 27 for several minutes but was not able to find any channels.

Are the channels being broadcast during these tests and does this sound like a poor signal issue?

Souriau

Adriel Grumpy Furnace wrote: »

I am in north Meath and have an aerial pointed at Divis for analogue. Last night I tried manually tuning in 21, 24(DVB-T2 so wasn't expecting anything) and 27 using a Philips 32PFL8404 that is receiving Saorview from Clermont Carn.

The TV seemed to hover over scanning both 21 and 27 for example when you scan a known frequency with no digital signal the set instantly says "No Channels Found". However it was scanning 21 and 27 for several minutes but was not able to find any channels.

Are the channels being broadcast during these tests and does this sound like a poor signal issue?

They were doing some test and none of my TV, even Freeview HD, were able to locked on to the signal even there is a good signal
I checked with TSReader and found no transmisson of TV channels but some other data.