The Shell to Sea protests

CommuterIE

To me, the whole protest has been blown out of proportion...

A lot of the protesters have very little education... we seen one woman on RTE news claiming she'd be scared if her cousin crossed the road, fearing the pipe under it would explode!

The Shell pipeline will be built, no matter what these local protesters say... they've certainly been pissing off the Gradai for the last number of years... THE PIPE WILL BE BUILT, get over it and go back to doing whatever you do :mad:

Saila

krusties dont work, thats what they do

mikemac

Not only crusties involved, highly paid staff too with good jobs.
Maura Harrington, school principal missing days from work to go on protests :rolleyes:

Then she said she was going on hunger strike until a certain ship left Irish waters.
Shame she didn't take it to the ultimate end.

Drove a vehicle at gardai and then came crying on the radio and the gardai smashed the window to stop it rolling
I remember that as I think it was around the time Newstalk Radio went from Dublin only to a national station, was listening that day

Retired from teaching now. She can devote her full energy to be an attention seeker

CommuterIE

feelingstressed wrote: »

Maura Harrington, school principal missing days from work to go on protests :rolleyes:

Then she said she was going on hunger strike until a certain ship left Irish waters.
Shame she didn't take it to the ultimate end

Drove a vehicle at gardai and then came crying on the radio and the gardai smashed the window to stop it.
I remember that as I think it was around the time Newstalk Radio went from Dublin only to a national station, was listening that day

I certainly hope that she is not a principal anymore.... I think she should have a full time position as a nutjob

dvpower

They're going to ram that pipe right into Co. Mayo whether she likes it or not.

At least that's what the local cops are saying.

baldbear

Well i'd be pretty damn pissed off if the government placed a compulsive purchase order on my land for a private company. Brown envelopes and shady dealings via Fianna Fail.

Some protestors are over the top but some cops are just as bad. Working for a private company basically.

mikemac

CommuterIE wrote: »

I certainly hope that she is not a principal anymore.... I think she should have a full time position as a nutjob

Sorry, I updated my post after that

Yes, she is retired now. School principal's pension however much that is

Dudess

Depends on the protestor - hate this "Dur... crusties should be shot" crap in order to show how right-wing and no-nonsense one is. Some protestors behave idiotically, but others are fighting for a cause they genuinely believe in.
And no matter how unco-operative the women at the centre of the current investigation into the guards were, and no matter how hysterical and distorted the media coverage of the case (and there really is some ridiculous rubbish being published) they did not deserve to be referenced in that way by those guards.

Orando Broom

I find it disquieting that it's rent-a-mob with Sinn Fein/ ex paramilitary trimmings doing the protesting.

Also I have no truck with hippies and crusties. Jobless cretins to a body.

CommuterIE

baldbear wrote: »

Well i'd be pretty damn pissed off if the government placed a compulsive purchase order on my land for a private company. Brown envelopes and shady dealings via Fianna Fail.

Some protestors are over the top but some cops are just as bad. Working for a private company basically.

They took over little swathes of land, not entire farms/houses... it is fully lawful, and no those cops are working for the State and defending Shells right to build it, which they are in the right

ScumLord

feelingstressed wrote: »

Then she said she was going on hunger strike until a certain ship left Irish waters.
Shame she didn't take it to the ultimate end.

I think you misunderstood, she is on a strike from hunger. She's stuffing her face for the cause, a true Irish hero.

Pace2008

CommuterIE wrote: »

The Shell pipeline will be built, no matter what these local protesters say... they've certainly been pissing off the Gradai for the last number of years... THE PIPE WILL BE BUILT, get over it and go back to doing whatever you do :mad:

I haven't read enough about the situation to know where I stand on the issue, but I do know the kind of attitude you're displaying here is what has this country ****ed and will have this country ****ed harder.

CommuterIE

Pace2008 wrote: »

I haven't read enough about the situation to know where I stand on the issue, but I do know the kind of attitude you're displaying here is what has this country ****ed and will have this country ****ed harder.

It is entirely legal and will generate much needed revenue for the exchequer... local protesters jumping on tractors, trucks etc won't change that

Pride Fighter

I said yes. But I am opposed to the absolute selling off of our national resources by those in Fianna Fail (Ray McSharry and Bertie Ahern if I remember correctly) for 1 cent.

What should happen is the pipe being built and the oil wealth be used to fix our deficit and fund social services. This would involve a nationalised oil company and telling shell where to go.

yawha

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

CommuterIE

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I said yes. But I am opposed to the absolute selling off of our national resources by those in Fianna Fail (Ray McSharry and Bertie Ahern if I remember correctly) for 1 cent.

What should happen is the pipe being built and the oil wealth be used to fix our deficit and fund social services. This would involve a nationalised oil company and telling shell where to go.

This isn't oil though, it's gas

ScumLord

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I said yes. But I am opposed to the absolute selling off of our national resources by those in Fianna Fail (Ray McSharry and Bertie Ahern if I remember correctly) for 1 cent.

What should happen is the pipe being built and the oil wealth be used to fix our deficit and fund social services. This would involve a nationalised oil company and telling shell where to go.

I agree fully that it's our gas and the Irish state should be using the revenue from it but Shell know what their doing and we could do with their expertise, just tax it so that both Ireland and Shell can make a handsome profit.

angry_fox

to be fair the krusties are very lucky that they have the shell to sea protest after the glen of the downs thing ended. What would the have done if shell were not building that pipeline? headed off to Zimbabwe or some other god for saken place to protest against what ever dictator is committing human rights abuses every day?? Not at all they headed off to mayo, hijacked a protest and cost the tax payer a nice bit of money.
Heroes the lot of them :rolleyes:

Pride Fighter

CommuterIE wrote: »

This isn't oil though, it's gas

Whatever mineral wealth it is is irrelevant, my point still stands.

Humans eh!

CommuterIE wrote: »

To me, the whole protest has been blown out of proportion...

A lot of the protesters have very little education... we seen one woman on RTE news claiming she'd be scared if her cousin crossed the road, fearing the pipe under it would explode!

The Shell pipeline will be built, no matter what these local protesters say... they've certainly been pissing off the Gradai for the last number of years... THE PIPE WILL BE BUILT, get over it and go back to doing whatever you do :mad:

'have very little education'
Imho only someone with very little education would make a sweeping generalisation like that.

'Gradai'
See above.
I assume that you are fully supportive of Shell and their 'operations' in the Nigerian Delta also?

wild_cat

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I said yes. But I am opposed to the absolute selling off of our national resources by those in Fianna Fail (Ray McSharry and Bertie Ahern if I remember correctly) for 1 cent.

What should happen is the pipe being built and the oil wealth be used to fix our deficit and fund social services. This would involve a nationalised oil company and telling shell where to go.

Very true, my main opposition to it being built is all to do with shell.

Pace2008

CommuterIE wrote: »

It is entirely legal and will generate much needed revenue for the exchequer... local protesters jumping on tractors, trucks etc won't change that

By whatever values these people hold, the building of the pipeline is wrong. I certainly don't think everything that's legal is right, and if you disagree strongly with something then it's you're prerogative to express your distase, via protest you see fit (though I don't agree with violent protest except perhaps in the most extreme of circumstances).

This doesn't just apply to the Shell to Sea protests. If we all just say "ah sure it's done, get over it" then we're a bunch of doormats just asking to be walked all over.

Pride Fighter

ScumLord wrote: »

I agree fully that it's our gas and the Irish state should be using the revenue from it but Shell know what their doing and we could do with their expertise, just tax it so that both Ireland and Shell can make a handsome profit.

There is a piece of legislation called the Keating Principles. Its basically tax the hell out of companies making huge profits in Ireland. I think the tax is 75%. Its not been implemented in yonks though.

Provided it cannot be nationalised, I'd be in favour of that high a tax on the gas.

Krusader

Ah yes, Royal Dutch Shell, i'm sure they have the Irish/Mayo people's best interests at heart

squod

CommuterIE wrote: »

To me, the whole protest has been blown out of proportion...

A lot of the protesters have very little education... we seen one woman on RTE news claiming she'd be scared if her cousin crossed the road, fearing the pipe under it would explode!

The Shell pipeline will be built, no matter what these local protesters say... they've certainly been pissing off the Gradai for the last number of years... THE PIPE WILL BE BUILT, get over it and go back to doing whatever you do :mad:

Way to start a thread OP. Emptying our pockets into Cowen's mates bank not enough for you? Anything else you'd like us give away?
You maybe? :rolleyes:

ScumLord

Crosáidí wrote: »

Ah yes, Royal Dutch Shell, i'm sure they have the Irish/Mayo people's best interests at heart

No all they care about is money, but then that's every company in the world. All we can do is milk them for cash.

Poor Craythur

feelingstressed wrote: »

Not only crusties involved, highly paid staff too with good jobs.
Maura Harrington, school principal missing days from work to go on protests :rolleyes:

Then she said she was going on hunger strike until a certain ship left Irish waters.
Shame she didn't take it to the ultimate end.

Drove a vehicle at gardai and then came crying on the radio and the gardai smashed the window to stop it rolling
I remember that as I think it was around the time Newstalk Radio went from Dublin only to a national station, was listening that day

Retired from teaching now. She can devote her full energy to be an attention seeker

The same woman was complaining recently about the Queen going to watch a hurling match in Croke Park. Does the woman just spend her days looking for things to make a big stink about?

squod

Pride Fighter wrote: »

There is a piece of legislation called the Keating Principles. Its basically tax the hell out of companies making huge profits in Ireland. I think the tax is 75%. Its not been implemented in yonks though.

Provided it cannot be nationalised, I'd be in favour of that high a tax on the gas.

Similar system working in Libya, massive rate of tax placed on the companies exporting oil.

Son Of A Vidic

Orando Broom wrote: »

I find it disquieting that it's rent-a-mob with Sinn Fein/ ex paramilitary trimmings doing the protesting.

Also I have no truck with hippies and crusties. Jobless cretins to a body.

Fcuk it doesn't take long does it? What else will Sinn Fein be blamed for? This shit gets so tired.


Just for the record, I'm all for the pipeline because it is a simple economic necessity. Such reserves are taking on an increased strategic value with fuel prices rising in the current economic climate. Whether it's natural gas or oil, we must secure and develop what reserves we have.

professore

Of all the things to protest about in this country, the shell pipeline must be 1 millionth on the list. And to think my taxes are paying for these losers.

dlofnep

Interesting how it's always the character of the protesters that's attacked, rather than the essence of their debate - the mass sell-off of our resources.

wild_cat

dlofnep wrote: »

Interesting how it's always the character of the protesters that's attacked, rather than the essence of their debate - the mass sell-off of our resources.

I think its the Irish "why would you be raising trouble" mentality.

Zebra3

professore wrote: »

Of all the things to protest about in this country, the shell pipeline must be 1 millionth on the list. And to think my taxes are paying for there losers.

Yeah, giving away our wealth for nothing is so far down the list. :rolleyes:

martic

CommuterIE wrote: »

To me, the whole protest has been blown out of proportion...

A lot of the protesters have very little education... we seen one woman on RTE news claiming she'd be scared if her cousin crossed the road, fearing the pipe under it would explode!

The Shell pipeline will be built, no matter what these local protesters say... they've certainly been pissing off the Gradai for the last number of years... THE PIPE WILL BE BUILT, get over it and go back to doing whatever you do :mad:

CommuterIE just out of curiosity can I be so bold as to ask what is your knowledge on the whole corrib pipe line/shell2sea protest that is going on in mayo,you're opinions seen very strong and well researched and I'm just curious on what information are you basing your opinions on as I wouldn't mind getting a read of the material

professore

What about the 70 billion gone into the banks. That's real wealth. At least we get 25% of the gas. I have a lot more respect for the cement mixer guy.

Humans eh!

Money, exchequer, revenue.....
is that it ??????
Is that all that matters ???
The relentless worship of money and revenue is what has us in the current financial mess we have been thrown into.
C'mon, whoever bandies around the 'much needed revenue' argument ..show us the figures and the sources please.
Any so called revenue that will come in will be handed over to pay for the monumental f**k ups that The Bertie Corporation caused in the first place.
In a world of dwindling resources we are so quick to hand over a vital resource that could enrich the lives of the beleaguered Irish in decades to come and not just patch a hole for the mistakes of the few.

Royal Dutch Shell Doesn't give a damn about the environment or anybody who gets in their way as their history in Africa proves. And as for needing their expertise, look where expertise has gotten us thus far.

This protest has become about more than a pipe and a few disgruntled locals, it is about how business and politics use the power of the state and its police to trample on the very people whom they serve. The Gardai are just doing what they are paid to do but it is fundamentally wrong and history will show it as a dark precedent of where this nation is heading.
As for peaceful protest.
Not worth a flying f**k.

squod

professore wrote: »

What about the 70 billion gone into the banks. That's real wealth. At least we get 25% of the gas. I have a lot more respect for the cement mixer guy.

Cement mixer guy owes you millions.

General General

There were a fair few, I suppose, who thought the War of Independence would end with complete victory for the British.

I'm guessing that the pipeline will be a target for whoever the bad guys are in the future.. &, going on precedent, if it is blown up, the government's/corporation's line will be that the tax-payer will foot the bill for the damage.

Seriously, who do these crusties think they are? Protesting. They'll fail, just like that Gandhi bool-locks & those nutjobs over in Iran in the 70s...

squod

Humans eh! wrote: »

Money, exchequer, revenue.....
is that it ??????
Is that all that matters ???
The relentless worship of money and revenue is what has us in the current financial mess we have been thrown into.
C'mon, whoever bandies around the 'much needed revenue' argument ..show us the figures and the sources please.
Any so called revenue that will come in will be handed over to pay for the monumental f**k ups that The Bertie Corporation caused in the first place.
In a world of dwindling resources we are so quick to hand over a vital resource that could enrich the lives of the beleaguered Irish in decades to come and not just patch a hole for the mistakes of the few.

Royal Dutch Shell Doesn't give a damn about the environment or anybody who gets in their way as their history in Africa proves. And as for needing their expertise, look where expertise has gotten us thus far.

This protest has become about more than a pipe and a few disgruntled locals, it is about how business and politics use the power of the state and its police to trample on the very people whom they serve. The Gardai are just doing what they are paid to do but it is fundamentally wrong and history will show it as a dark precedent of where this nation is heading.
As for peaceful protest.
Not worth a flying f**k.

''The merger of state and corporate powers is called fascism.'' Gerald Celente

Birdnuts

CommuterIE wrote: »

To me, the whole protest has been blown out of proportion...

A lot of the protesters have very little education... we seen one woman on RTE news claiming she'd be scared if her cousin crossed the road, fearing the pipe under it would explode!

The Shell pipeline will be built, no matter what these local protesters say... they've certainly been pissing off the Gradai for the last number of years... THE PIPE WILL BE BUILT, get over it and go back to doing whatever you do :mad:

Is that the message from Head Office:rolleyes:

Birdnuts

professore wrote: »

Of all the things to protest about in this country, the shell pipeline must be 1 millionth on the list. And to think my taxes are paying for these losers.

A tax-payer who supports the Corrib Gas giveaway - alot of logic there

Humans eh!

squod wrote: »

''The merger of state and corporate powers is called fascism.'' Gerald Celente

Indeed.

Birdnuts

THe SHELL groupies on this Forum only have empty soundbytes and pathetic cliches to support their views - facts relating to how SHELL got their hands on our GAS and the rather sorry saga relating to the circumstances in which BNP over-turned the recommendations of their Senior planner Kevin Moore to allow the refinery to go ahead in an obviously unsuiteable location are ignored since they don't suit the PR spinn and guff

PS: The same Kevin Moore gave 16 reasons as to why this project should not go ahead at its current location. People are welcome to research these facts theselves:)

Zebra3

squod wrote: »

Cement mixer guy owes you millions.

Even though the taxpayer never lent him any money..... :rolleyes:

My name is URL

I have no real desire to learn about the ins and outs of the whole thing, but I'd be lying if I said that I don't feel pissed off to see the place reduced to such nonsense from people on both sides of the fence.

Einhard

Pride Fighter wrote: »

What should happen is the pipe being built and the oil wealth be used to fix our deficit and fund social services. This would involve a nationalised oil company and telling shell where to go.

And once we tell Shell to fook off, who is going to stump up to explore other areas of the Irish seabed which may have hydrocarbon potential? We don't have significant reserves of oil or gas, and nothing thusfar indicates that we ever will have significant quantities in readily accessible locations. Considering the process surrounding a single test bore costs tens of millions, who is going to stump up for such tests? And before you answer with Norway etc, the Norwegians have an abundance of readily exploitable hydrocarbon reserves. The quantity makes it cost-effective for them to establish their own national energy company, and mitigates the costs involved in exploration and expoitation. We don't have that luxury in Ireland. I'd like to get as much as possible for our resources, but we have to be realistic when it comes to it. Telling Shell where to shove it will essentially bring exploration to a halt in ireland for the foreseeable future. Not to mention the massive damage such uniliateral breaching of contract law would cause. If you were the head of a multi-national, looking to expand or invest, would you do so in a nation which has a history of reneging on its contracts? I doubt it.

Crosáidí wrote: »

Ah yes, Royal Dutch Shell, i'm sure they have the Irish/Mayo people's best interests at heart

Ah yes, Dunne's Stores/enter any private enterprise here, i'm sure they have the Irish people's best interests at heart

Not sure what that comment has to do with anythign really, except stoke some inane populist sentiment and get a few thanks. What private enterprise has the common good at heart? If that were the criteria for private companies, we'd be picketing Intel and Dell.

dlofnep wrote: »

Interesting how it's always the character of the protesters that's attacked, rather than the essence of their debate - the mass sell-off of our resources.

I think that, in some cases, the character of the protestors is a legitimate basis of discussion. From what I've seen, a significant number of the protestors are motivated, not merely by local concerns or issues, but by ideoplogical and political considerations. It's reasonable then, to discuss such deeper motivations. Anyway, as I'm sure you're aware, there is no compunction amongst the protestors about attacking the character of Shell, the guards, and those employed around the project, so they can hardly claim special treatment.

Birdnuts

Einhard wrote: »

And once we tell Shell to fook off, who is going to stump up to explore other areas of the Irish seabed which may have hydrocarbon potential? We don't have significant reserves of oil or gas, and nothing thusfar indicates that we ever will have significant quantities in readily accessible locations. Considering the process surrounding a single test bore costs tens of millions, who is going to stump up for such tests? And before you answer with Norway etc, the Norwegians have an abundance of readily exploitable hydrocarbon reserves. The quantity makes it cost-effective for them to establish their own national energy company, and mitigates the costs involved in exploration and expoitation. We don't have that luxury in Ireland. I'd like to get as much as possible for our resources, but we have to be realistic when it comes to it. Telling Shell where to shove it will essentially bring exploration to a halt in ireland for the foreseeable future. Not to mention the massive damage such uniliateral breaching of contract law would cause. If you were the head of a multi-national, looking to expand or invest, would you do so in a nation which has a history of reneging on its contracts? I doubt it.



Ah yes, Dunne's Stores/enter any private enterprise here, i'm sure they have the Irish people's best interests at heart

Not sure what that comment has to do with anythign really, except stoke some inane populist sentiment and get a few thanks. What private enterprise has the common good at heart? If that were the criteria for private companies, we'd be picketing Intel and Dell.




I think that, in some cases, the character of the protestors is a legitimate basis of discussion. From what I've seen, a significant number of the protestors are motivated, not merely by local concerns or issues, but by ideoplogical and political considerations. It's reasonable then, to discuss such deeper motivations. Anyway, as I'm sure you're aware, there is no compunction amongst the protestors about attacking the character of Shell, the guards, and those employed around the project, so they can hardly claim special treatment.

We get so little from the deal that it doesn't matter if the gas stays out there or not - in fact its probably better that it stays out there since its value can only go up given projected worldwide energy demand, at which point we can do a "Norway" on it.

This deal has about as much merits as bailing out Anglo et al - Indeed for a fraction of the money we wasted on the banks, we could have set up our own oil/gas exploiration company:(

The current deal achieves nothing but increasing a foreign oil companies already massive profits:(

PS: Theres another thread active for those who don't like protestors who upset big business interests!!;)

Pride Fighter

Einhard wrote: »

And once we tell Shell to fook off, who is going to stump up to explore other areas of the Irish seabed which may have hydrocarbon potential? We don't have significant reserves of oil or gas, and nothing thusfar indicates that we ever will have significant quantities in readily accessible locations. Considering the process surrounding a single test bore costs tens of millions, who is going to stump up for such tests? And before you answer with Norway etc, the Norwegians have an abundance of readily exploitable hydrocarbon reserves. The quantity makes it cost-effective for them to establish their own national energy company, and mitigates the costs involved in exploration and expoitation. We don't have that luxury in Ireland. I'd like to get as much as possible for our resources, but we have to be realistic when it comes to it. Telling Shell where to shove it will essentially bring exploration to a halt in ireland for the foreseeable future. Not to mention the massive damage such uniliateral breaching of contract law would cause. If you were the head of a multi-national, looking to expand or invest, would you do so in a nation which has a history of reneging on its contracts? I doubt it.

There is 550 billion of gas in Corrib. I know that set up costs would cost billions, maybe up to 10, but you'll still make a hell of a lot of money.Companies would still do business with us if we nationalised the gas. Look at Egypt after Nasser nationalised the Suez canal, modern day Venezuela. Companies will not leave Ireland if we did this. We nationalised all the banks and they did not leave, why not nationalise something that will make money?

Einhard

Pride Fighter wrote: »

There is 550 billion of gas in Corrib. I know that set up costs would cost billions, maybe up to 10, but you'll still make a hell of a lot of money.Companies would still do business with us if we nationalised the gas. Look at Egypt after Nasser nationalised the Suez canal, modern day Venezuela. Companies will not leave Ireland if we did this. We nationalised all the banks and they did not leave, why not nationalise something that will make money?

Where are you getting this valuation from? I've searched and have found nothing that even approximates that figure.

As for Egypt and Venezuela, the situations are entirely different. One can't just point at another country and say, see, they did, we can too! You mention Egypt, yet if anything, the recent revolts have highlighted how little private industry is located in Egypt. Multi-national investment of the type on which Ireland depends, is practically non-existent in the country. In Venezuela, the same is true, though to a lesser extent. On top of that, both countries have resources which they can deploy to mitigate hostile reactions to their actions- Suez, and massive hydrocarbon reserves. Both are hugely valuable to the international community and business, and so both nations can get away with actions which other nations, with no such significant resources would be would be ostracised for. Ireland has no such resources to wield against the world, and so has no such bargaining chips.

Anyway, you didn't answer my question- if you were the head of a multi-national, looking to invest money, would you do so in a country which unilaterally breaches its contracts? Which unilaterally tears up and ignores its own laws when it feels like it? I certainly wouldn't.

EDIT: According to the Irish TImes, the Corrib gas field has a value of between €9-13 billion. I presume they're a pretty unbiased source. Where on earth are you getting the half trillion valuation from?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0307/1224291485774.html

MORE EDIT: The more one thinks of that figure you provided, the more one is struck by how patently absurd it is. All the oil and gas in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar and Kuwait was valued in 2009 at $18 trillion. That's every single quantifiable gas and oil field in all 6 nations, traditionally amongst the largest hydrocarbon exporting nations in the world. And you'd have us believe that, in one small gas field, off the coast of Mayo, the reserves are equal in value to approx. 2.5% of the entire hydrocarbon production of those six countries?? Are you serious? Factor in that Kinsale is larger again than Corrib, and, going by your figures, in just two gas fields, Ireland has energy reserves equal to at least 5% of all the reserves of Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar and Kuwait. I'm sorry, but that beggars belief.

http://www.ameinfo.com/213565.html

Einhard

Birdnuts wrote: »

PS: Theres another thread active for those who don't like protestors who upset big business interests!!;)

I've nothing against the protestors, I just disagree with them. No gra for big business either, but I'm not jumping on some populist bandwagon without seeing a reasoned argument presented. Throwing about figures of half a trillion dollars or euros, when there seems to be no independent supporting evidence for this, is just one example of lack of reasoned argument.

Pauleta

Its already been established that we dont have the expertise in the country to extract the fuel at a reasonable price. I think it would be more productive to find out why we dont have the expertise and trying to develop the expertise rather than protesting the inebitable