Garda cars driving with fog lights on

Condatis

foreign wrote: »

Or we pull in to a incident and most of the useless twats on the road don't see the patrol car. One of the reasons why those lights are left on.

The beacon is sufficient and/or hazard lights. At least they won't blind oncoming motorists.

roundymac

parsi wrote: »

I saw a Traffic Corps car the other day with them on. What's worse was that it was a sunny day.

Years ago in France we ended up travelling in the dusk and I had them on rather than use my un-adjusted headlights. We passed by a Gendarme who took time out from his ticketing of a driver to tell us to turn them off.

It's vaguely related , so - is there a requirement for LHD cars to have beam benders fitted when in Ireland ?

No specific law about beambenders, if your lights are not correctly focused, you could and should be prosecuted.

Irish Fire

Condatis wrote: »

The beacon is sufficient and/or hazard lights. At least they won't blind oncoming motorists.

Do you mind me asking how in the hell lights of this type will blind you in daylight?

Du

It is a fog light.

Getthe****overit.

highdef

Du wrote: »

It is a fog light.

Getthe****overit.

It's a road traffic offence....just like other road traffic offences!
-

Locust

RE: Fog lights

Du wrote: »

It is a fog light. Getthe****overit.

Its four lights - front & rear, which serve absolutely no purpose for you unless its foggy.

Irish Fire wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how in the hell lights of this type will blind you in daylight?

They can obscure your brake lights... and can dazzle/confuse other road users especially if it's wet. Some of the newer cars with led lights have absolute killer dazzle off them if you get them head on.

Its internationally recognised that fog lights are a hazard unless road visibility is seriously reduced so its made an offence - so turn them off. They really don't make your car look any cooler, seriously.

highdef

Indeed. What if I decided that I liked to have my full beams on all the time....sure I can see things much better at night. Who cares if I'm causing excessive glare to other drivers??? I can see better so that must be a good thing. A lot of people who use fog lights say they use them because they light up the road much better. Obviously they do because they are not aimed in the same way as dipped headlights. Depending on the model of car, they can be more of less like full beams. So if someone thinks it's ok to use fog lights because they give of more light for the driver, then why shouldn't I assume it's ok to use my full beams because they give me much better light coverage?
To use either are both similar offences, I believe, yet to drive around with full beams on is very much frowned upon yet fog lights still seem to tolerated, in the main.
And just to clarify, when I say fog lights, I mean fog lights.....full stop. I'm not differentiating between front and rear fog lights. To have either of them on when they should not is the same offence. When visibility is fine, NO fog lights should be on....FULL STOP

goldie fish

Condatis wrote: »

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue..

All Defence Forces vehicles must drive with headlights on at all times, according to DF rules.
Most new motorcycles imported into the country have always on headlights.
Any new vehicle assembled in some countries in Europe will come fitted with always on headlights.

I suggest sunglasses.

savagecabbages

highdef wrote: »

So if someone thinks it's ok to use fog lights because they give of more light for the driver, then why shouldn't I assume it's ok to use my full beams because they give me much better light coverage?

Because using full beams will certainly blind other road users. I see it as acceptable to use fog lights which don't blind other road users. No offence, but thats seems quite a poorly thought out argument. I dont have a problem with the fog lights on the Toyota Avensis petrol cars as these dont blind me.
P.S. if fogs do blind other road users then one shouldn't use them


All Swedish made cars have had daytime running lights for years right?
I think its much safer to have at least some lights on during the day. A member of my family was seriously injured when an oncoming car overtook a bus and ploughed straight into her. He said he never saw her and pulled out. It was a tree lined section of road and the sun was low in the sky. Perhaps if she had lights on the other driver may have copped she was there. Perhaps not, who knows ?!?!?
Lights on. All the time.

UpstateEMS

Corcioch wrote: »

A Garda at the side of a road dealing with a collision, or what ever scenario . . .needs as many lights as possible . ..not less . .to enhance visibility and increase protection in a dangerous environment.

This has been disproved in the States. There is a movement towards reducing the number of rear facing lights left on when parked and a focus on ensuring that an amber light is displayed to the rear as there is evidence that this may deter people from running in to the rear of an emergency vehicle. Too many lights dazzle oncoming drivers and actually 'suck' them in to the emergency vehicle.

As an aside, ambulances and fire apparatus in the States must now also ship from the factory with rear facing chevrons to be compliant with the latest NFPA guidance. This measure has also been shown to reduce the number of rear end collisions. (This has been standard practice in Europe for many years now to the best of my knowledge.)

Ultimately, if you want to reduce the risk to emergency responders of being struck, use the biggest vehicle you have to protect the responders, slow traffic down before blind corners, reduce the number of responders who are in harms way in the first place, and be more aggressive about simply shutting the road down in the first place.

Rant over.

Shield

UpstateEMS wrote: »

This has been disproved in the States.

We love being able to see this proof for ourselves on this forum. Any idea where we can read how, when or where it was disproved?

UpstateEMS

psni wrote: »

We love being able to see this proof for ourselves on this forum. Any idea where we can read how, when or where it was disproved?

A lot of this was done by the New York State Police a few years ago when there were a rash of Ford Crown Victoria's igniting after rear end collisions. I'll see if I can find some more hard info about it.

belacqua_

psni wrote: »

We love being able to see this proof for ourselves on this forum. Any idea where we can read how, when or where it was disproved?

Emergency Warning Lights & Parking Procedures

Are They Protecting Us And Making The Emergency Scene Safer?



http://www.firehouse.com/node/42015

*Edit: Also, a host of FEMA sponsored research on emergency vehicle lighting here:

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/fireservice/research/safety/vehicle.shtm

Eru

savagecabbages wrote: »

A bit like the loud exhaust problem...
I know its hard to measure exhaust noise on the road, but surely somebody can be done under different legislation like general noise pollution or being a nuisance late at night. (no idea of what legislation is out there i'm guessing)

Your last statement says it all, theres sweet FA genuine usable legislation. You need to throw the car on a machine to test the noise levels at certain conditions. A machine thats not available to 99% of Gardai. Its total unrealistic.

I had hoped the greens would tackle this as they promised noise pollution was something they were going to deal with.

savagecabbages

Really? I'm no expert on legislation or laws tbh...

If someone is playing loud music at a party, or screaming/making a racket at a night or something, how is that dealt with?
I'm kinda wondering if someone driving a car with a loud exhaust can be penalised with without actually measuring the Db level??
There are so many ways around a measuring device i just cant see them being effective. having to hold a car at x revs when every car revs to a different max rpm isn't fair either.

highdef

savagecabbages wrote: »

Because using full beams will certainly blind other road users. I see it as acceptable to use fog lights which don't blind other road users. No offence, but thats seems quite a poorly thought out argument. I dont have a problem with the fog lights on the Toyota Avensis petrol cars as these dont blind me.
P.S. if fogs do blind other road users then one shouldn't use them

Savagecabbages, I have to apologise. When I made the comments about using full beams, I was actually being sarcastic. The sarcasm obviously didn't come through in the post.

But as for your comment saying that you don't have a problem having fog lights on if they're not blinding.....that's not the point. It's an offence to use them when they should not be used, full stop.

It's fine to break a red light if there's nobody around but it's still offence. It might be completely safe but you still are not allowed.

savagecabbages

savagecabbages wrote: »

If someone is playing loud music at a party, or screaming/making a racket at a night or something, how is that dealt with?

Noisy party? No obligation to turn the noise down. In fact, it's not a garda matter and some dispatchers will cancel calls put in. All we can do if we go to a call is ask for the noise to be turned down.

If someone is doing it on the street then we can use the public order act. That doesn't cover cars I'm afraid.

savagecabbages

Unfortunately sarcasm is quite hard to pull off in text form...;)

that's not the point. It's an offence to use them when they should not be used, full stop.

I'm not trying to argue that its legal or not, i'm simply saying i dont see the problem if the lights aren't blinding people or causing a nuisance. One of these laws for which a touch of 'human policing' is required to enforce.

Noisy party? No obligation to turn the noise down. In fact, it's not a garda matter and some dispatchers will cancel calls put in. All we can do if we go to a call is ask for the noise to be turned down.

I'm vy surprised by this! So if i was making a racket with music up loud and a guard comes knocking at my door i can tell him get lost and keep the music up?? [not that i'd do that of course]

Guess i've bee completely mis-informed all my life about what exactly the public order act covers... Surely making a racket in a public place is a nuisance regardless if its with a car/trumpet/drum/voice???

goldie fish

savagecabbages wrote: »

Unfortunately sarcasm is quite hard to pull off in text form...;)


I'm not trying to argue that its legal or not, i'm simply saying i dont see the problem if the lights aren't blinding people or causing a nuisance. One of these laws for which a touch of 'human policing' is required to enforce.


I'm vy surprised by this! So if i was making a racket with music up loud and a guard comes knocking at my door i can tell him get lost and keep the music up?? [not that i'd do that of course]

Guess i've bee completely mis-informed all my life about what exactly the public order act covers... Surely making a racket in a public place is a nuisance regardless if its with a car/trumpet/drum/voice???

There is a certain hour beyond which it is unreasonable to play loud music, but I think it a civil matter, rather than a Public order one, and the gardai may "call" to inform the resident of this.
However, if when they call, If they discover other illegal activity taking place, or suspect such may be, then there is a range of legislation that permits them to enter without warrant.....
Or, in certain circumstances, a warrant may be sought....during the course of searches, devices producing loud noise have been known to be accidentally damaged....

savagecabbages

Cheers

So the guards have basically very little power to stop people making noise causing annoyance to others?
What about doing somebody with a noisy car on civil grounds?
Or does it have to be under road legislation if its a car which is causing the racket??

Seems, as mentioned earlier in the thread, there is a massive gap in legislation for this kind of thing...

pah

goldie fish wrote: »

Or, in certain circumstances, a warrant may be sought....during the course of searches, devices producing loud noise have been known to be accidentally damaged....

Seriously?

Why would somebody take it upon themselves to be associated with the "accidental" damage of devices that produce loud noise?

Knock Knock,

Hello, I just wanted to inform you that there have been a number of complaints about the level of noise coming from your home....

99% of responses are - oh sorry guard we'll turn it down right away.

For the 1% of people who are just too ignorant - leave them off you've done your job.

If it's continuous and sustained noise in an anti-social form then it can be tackled through an adult behaviour warning

goldie fish

pah wrote: »

Seriously?

Why would somebody take it upon themselves to be associated with the "accidental" damage of devices that produce loud noise?

Knock Knock,

Hello, I just wanted to inform you that there have been a number of complaints about the level of noise coming from your home....

99% of responses are - oh sorry guard we'll turn it down right away.

For the 1% of people who are just too ignorant - leave them off you've done your job.

If it's continuous and sustained noise in an anti-social form then it can be tackled through an adult behaviour warning

What part of Utopia do you live in?

pah

goldie fish wrote: »

What part of Utopia do you live in?

Ok so maybe my percentages are skewed nationally but the majority of people overall would be fairly compliant when approached by a Garda at the door and asked to turn the noise down.

My point is your job is done once you've spoken to them. Why would one become involved in a civil matter any further?

Chipboard

highdef wrote: »

It's fine to break a red light if there's nobody around but it's still offence. It might be completely safe but you still are not allowed.

I'm not trying to be funny, I agree with you but isn't it the case that some traffic lights (probably minor onto major road) have to be activated by a vehicle moving across a pressure pad (at the red light side of the junction). What are you supposed to do if you are driving a light motorbike which won't activate the lights?

Rodin

To be honest, I've no problem with oncoming fog lights.
Never dazzled me. And I think on Irish roads, they're a valuable extra illumination down low

Rodin

foreign wrote: »

Noisy party? No obligation to turn the noise down. In fact, it's not a garda matter and some dispatchers will cancel calls put in. All we can do if we go to a call is ask for the noise to be turned down.

If someone is doing it on the street then we can use the public order act. That doesn't cover cars I'm afraid.

Are you a garda?

LookBehindYou

As a motorcyclist, i hate when people have their fog lights on after dark, its dangerous, because it can blind a motorcyclist who need their eyes to see ahead and scan the road for loose stones/potholes/diesel spills etc.

sdanseo

Rodin wrote: »

Are you a garda?

Yes, he is.

Eru

savagecabbages wrote: »

I'm vy surprised by this! So if i was making a racket with music up loud and a guard comes knocking at my door i can tell him get lost and keep the music up?? [not that i'd do that of course]

Its a civil matter but Gardai do play some role in certain scenarios. We can give you an oral and then written warning and then if you keep going the local Super can get an ASBO against you but thats only for sustained behaviour over a long period of time and consistant.

We can do nothing to actually get the music turned down and certainly cant issue any warnings over 1 party 1 night. Again, something the Greens promised

coolbeans

Rodin wrote: »

To be honest, I've no problem with oncoming fog lights.
Never dazzled me. And I think on Irish roads, they're a valuable extra illumination down low

A few points:

Foglights are illegal to use in normal clear condition. If cops are using them they should not be for obvious reasons.

The light beam extends a very short distance away from the front of the car so therefore is useless at most speeds over 20KPH. Therefore contrary to your post they do not and cannot, by virtue of their design, provide a valuable source of extra illumination in normal non foggy conditions.

Sensitivity to light varies and what may not bother you may be quite distracting to others.