Garda cars driving with fog lights on

highdef · 06-04-2011 11:27am #1

I've noticed recently that with the new Avensis squad cars now on the roads, a lot of them are driving with their fog lights on. Fog lights are one of my pet hates and I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.
Does anyone know what the story with this is? Are the guards trying to "look cool" by having them on or are they not paying attention to their dashes when driving. If the guards are unaware that they are driving with fog lights on, then it's a very bad and very visible message to be sending out to members of the public. I can see absolutely no reason why an emergency services vehicle would need to use fog lights in the normal course of duty unless of course the visibility is poor.
Garda drivers are "professional" drivers, after all. Seeing a foglight symbol on the dash should be spotted immediately by any halfwit paying any sort of attention to their dials and gauges.

06-04-2011 12:40pm

highdef wrote: »

I've noticed recently that with the new Avensis squad cars now on the roads, a lot of them are driving with their fog lights on. Fog lights are one of my pet hates and I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.
Does anyone know what the story with this is? Are the guards trying to "look cool" by having them on or are they not paying attention to their dashes when driving. If the guards are unaware that they are driving with fog lights on, then it's a very bad and very visible message to be sending out to members of the public. I can see absolutely no reason why an emergency services vehicle would need to use fog lights in the normal course of duty unless of course the visibility is poor.
Garda drivers are "professional" drivers, after all. Seeing a foglight symbol on the dash should be spotted immediately by any halfwit paying any sort of attention to their dials and gauges.

The ones I've seen so far don't have the fog lights on them. I would hope the ones that do have them fitted are not being put on by the drivers themselves but that they are one automatically once the car is started. I have noticed the DFB ambulances have them on pretty much all the time too.

dougal · 06-04-2011 12:43pm

highdef wrote: »

I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.

Is this a penalty point offence or an on the spot fine?

06-04-2011 12:57pm

dougal wrote: »

Is this a penalty point offence or an on the spot fine?

Both i think.

blindsider · 06-04-2011 1:12pm

I haven't seen these myself, but I wonder are they the new Daytime Running Lights (DRL's) that many new cars seem to be fiited with as standard.

My understanding is that they are now (Feb 11) mandatory* on all new cars.

Commission Directive 2008/89/EC of 24 September 2008 amending, for the purposes of its
adaptation to technical progress, Council Directive 76/756/EEC concerning the installation of lighting
and light-signalling devices on motor vehicles and their trailers - OJ L 257, 25.9.2008, p. 14–15

06-04-2011 1:13pm

dougal wrote: »

Is this a penalty point offence or an on the spot fine?

Summons only. Thats why so many are not prosecuted.

PCPhoto · 06-04-2011 1:19pm

highdef wrote: »

I've noticed recently that with the new Avensis squad cars now on the roads, a lot of them are driving with their fog lights on. Fog lights are one of my pet hates and I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.
Does anyone know what the story with this is? Are the guards trying to "look cool" by having them on or are they not paying attention to their dashes when driving. If the guards are unaware that they are driving with fog lights on, then it's a very bad and very visible message to be sending out to members of the public. I can see absolutely no reason why an emergency services vehicle would need to use fog lights in the normal course of duty unless of course the visibility is poor.
Garda drivers are "professional" drivers, after all. Seeing a foglight symbol on the dash should be spotted immediately by any halfwit paying any sort of attention to their dials and gauges.

No offence intendend but I've seen Gardai do a lot worse than drive with fog lights on and its not prosecuted.... (in general) they are above the law and on occasion abuse traffic laws.

Taxi drivers are also professional drivers - how many of them have you seen "bend" a traffic law.

there is little or not enough enforcement of traffic laws (something which is difficult to do due to lack of numbers and too many loopholes in the system)..... thats my pet hate (lack of enforcement/accountability....who can we blame???)

highdef · 06-04-2011 1:49pm

I completely agree with you on all points. I didn't mention taxi drivers (and other drivers) as this is the emergency services forum and I thought inquiring about non emergency services would not be appropriate.
Interesting point about the DLRs, however I had a quick look at the Toyota website for Ireland and there is no mention of DLRs on the current Avensis but the Aura and Strata models have front fog lights fitted. Only the base models do not. Anyone know what spec level the Garda Avensis's are?
I would guess that someone has decided that it would be cool to turn on the foglights and any drivers that have driven afterwards have failed to take a look at the dials and gauges before driving.
Obviously Gardai view and post here so maybe it could be brought up as a general circulation to drivers. I know it's not technically a major thing but as I mentioned earlier, it is an offence and for Gardai to be very obviously committing this offence in public is not a good thing, from a public relations point of view at the very least. If I ask a driver to turn off their fog lights as they are causing me excessive glare, I don't want them to come back to me saying that guards have them on so why can't they.

Slightly off topic but if gardai simply told drivers to switch off their fog lights, say at checkpoints, then this may help a little. I'm sure many drivers don't even know they are committing an offence and also very likely causing excessive glare to other users...some cars are worse than others, as you probably know. Just make sure that the Garda car at the checkpoint has it's own fog lights switched off too

Eru · 06-04-2011 2:01pm

Im with you completely. fog lights being left on drives me crazy but the major problem with it is the same as annoying loud exhausts, difficult to enforce.

theres no set 'fog light' law and certainly not a ticket or penalty points. I believe it falls under driving without reasonable care but if vehicles are coming with them always on as running lights you cant really run with that summons.

I would hope that Gardai arent driving with them on to look 'cool' but if some have them on and some dont, its not really saying a lot for the driver that has them on imho but maybe we should give the benefit of the doubt, new vehicle and maybe the driver hasnt driven it before.

as for checkpoints, I do and people look at me like I have ten heads when I ask them and explain why.

highdef · 06-04-2011 4:54pm

Eru wrote: »

but if vehicles are coming with them always on as running lights you cant really run with that summons.

That's quite true, I admit. However, for the majority of cars on the road, it's foglights that are on, rather than DLRs. And it's very easy to spot if they are actually fog lights if you talking to the driver as there will be a fog light symbol lit up on the dash. If they were DLRs, there would be no fog light symbol.

Eru wrote: »

I would hope that Gardai arent driving with them on to look 'cool' but if some have them on and some dont, its not really saying a lot for the driver that has them on imho but maybe we should give the benefit of the doubt, new vehicle and maybe the driver hasnt driven it before.

Fair enough, yes they are new cars and the drivers may not be too familiar. I would have thought that all drivers would have been given an overview of the cars and controls. I'm not a guard so I wouldn't know what the procedure is. Although if I get in to car that is not my normal (company) car, upon turning the ignition, I'll pay attention to all warnings and symbols and be familiar with all the controls before I set off. Maybe I'm too conscientious but I'll know straight away if the fog lights are on....or anything else that shouldn't be on (or off)!

Eru wrote: »

as for checkpoints, I do and people look at me like I have ten heads when I ask them and explain why.

fair play to you and thank you. I've never seen a guard ask a driver to turn off his/her foglights at a checkpoint and it's great to know that at least one is actively doing this. May I ask what the general reply is from drivers when you explain why they should not be switched on? Just curious :rolleyes:

06-04-2011 5:03pm

highdef wrote: »

fair play to you and thank you. I've never seen a guard ask a driver to turn off his/her foglights at a checkpoint and it's great to know that at least one is actively doing this. May I ask what the general reply is from drivers when you explain why they should not be switched on? Just curious :rolleyes:

One I get a bit, mostly from Taxi drivers is "they're not fog lights they are spot lights". To which I reply, turn them off and read your manual. I usually ask drivers if they are having trouble seeing in the fog and get a curious look back.

It does my head in people driving with them on and it annoys me even more that colleagues do it in their own private cars.

highdef · 06-04-2011 5:06pm

Ah yes, the old "spot light" routine. Yes they are spot lights but oddly enough, in your handbook it says that the symbol lit up on your dash says that it's fog lights that are on. Strange one.

But has been said, there is generally no enforcement * so people feel they can have them on if they want.

*Except by Eru and maybe some others I don't know about

Ludo · 06-04-2011 5:09pm

highdef wrote: »

That's quite true, I admit. However, for the majority of cars on the road, it's foglights that are on, rather than DLRs. And it's very easy to spot if they are actually fog lights if you talking to the driver as there will be a fog light symbol lit up on the dash. If they were DLRs, there would be no fog light symbol.

Fair enough, yes they are new cars and the drivers may not be too familiar. I would have thought that all drivers would have been given an overview of the cars and controls. I'm not a guard so I wouldn't know what the procedure is. Although if I get in to car that is not my normal (company) car, upon turning the ignition, I'll pay attention to all warnings and symbols and be familiar with all the controls before I set off. Maybe I'm too conscientious but I'll know straight away if the fog lights are on....or anything else that shouldn't be on (or off)!

fair play to you and thank you. I've never seen a guard ask a driver to turn off his/her foglights at a checkpoint and it's great to know that at least one is actively doing this. May I ask what the general reply is from drivers when you explain why they should not be switched on? Just curious :rolleyes:

I've been in my wifes car when she was asked to turn off her front fogs at a checkpoint before so not that uncommon I thought.

parsi · 06-04-2011 5:37pm

I saw a Traffic Corps car the other day with them on. What's worse was that it was a sunny day.

Years ago in France we ended up travelling in the dusk and I had them on rather than use my un-adjusted headlights. We passed by a Gendarme who took time out from his ticketing of a driver to tell us to turn them off.

It's vaguely related , so - is there a requirement for LHD cars to have beam benders fitted when in Ireland ?

Shield · 06-04-2011 5:47pm

Warning issued for factually incorrect information which is unsubstantiated and unfair to the men and women of AGS.

No further comment on this post please and thanks.

PCPhoto wrote: »

No offence intendend but I've seen Gardai do a lot worse than drive with fog lights on and its not prosecuted.... (in general) they are above the law and on occasion abuse traffic laws.

savagecabbages · 06-04-2011 5:47pm

I generally dont find factory fitted foglights too distracting, as they aim at the ground immediately in front of the car, thus not blinding other road users. I've encountered patrol cars with fogs on and dont find it a problem.

Aftermarket ones however, are almost never properly adjusted, and are usually pointed straight ahead(hence useless in fog) blinding any oncoming car and being a nuisance in mirrors!

A bit like the loud exhaust problem...
I know its hard to measure exhaust noise on the road, but surely somebody can be done under different legislation like general noise pollution or being a nuisance late at night. (no idea of what legislation is out there i'm guessing)

parsi · 06-04-2011 5:53pm

Micras have killer foglights. It's almost like the designers are trying to make up for it being a small ugly car.

highdef · 06-04-2011 6:27pm

parsi wrote: »

Micras have killer foglights. It's almost like the designers are trying to make up for it being a small ugly car.

Indeed....Micras are horrendous for fog lights which are more like full beams. It's mainly the older Micra model that suffers from this, the 90's/early 00's model(s). The older model Fiesta's were also really bad, the Mark IV I think.

savagecabbages says that he doesn't find factory fitted foglights too distracting, as they aim at the ground immediately in front of the car - This is often the reason why fogs can be so glaring. They may not be so bad on some cars but most of the time, if the ground is very wet the glare can be very very bad, due to the fact that the beams are so close to the ground and therefore create a huge amount of reflected and dangerously glaring light.

Condatis · 06-04-2011 6:51pm

I didn't know that there was an Emergency Services forum until now.

I have often seen another serious fault in Garda driving.

When they pull into an incident be it an RTA, a fire or an interception and park on the side of the road facing traffic they tend ti leave headlights or dips on.

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue.

I realise that when they pull into an incident they can be under pressure, but this practice could cause an accident.

Irish Fire · 06-04-2011 6:57pm

These are "driving" lights or DLR as pointed out earlier

vampire of kilmainham · 06-04-2011 6:59pm

highdef wrote: »

I've noticed recently that with the new Avensis squad cars now on the roads, a lot of them are driving with their fog lights on. Fog lights are one of my pet hates and I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.
Does anyone know what the story with this is? Are the guards trying to "look cool" by having them on or are they not paying attention to their dashes when driving. If the guards are unaware that they are driving with fog lights on, then it's a very bad and very visible message to be sending out to members of the public. I can see absolutely no reason why an emergency services vehicle would need to use fog lights in the normal course of duty unless of course the visibility is poor.
Garda drivers are "professional" drivers, after all. Seeing a foglight symbol on the dash should be spotted immediately by any halfwit paying any sort of attention to their dials and gauges.

why dont you set up your own check point and stop all the gardai who are driving with fog lights on:eek::eek::eek:

06-04-2011 7:21pm

Condatis wrote: »

I didn't know that there was an Emergency Services forum until now.

I have often seen another serious fault in Garda driving.

When they pull into an incident be it an RTA, a fire or an interception and park on the side of the road facing traffic they tend ti leave headlights or dips on.

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue.

I realise that when they pull into an incident they can be under pressure, but this practice could cause an accident.

Or we pull in to a incident and most of the useless twats on the road don't see the patrol car. One of the reasons why those lights are left on.

Hooch · 06-04-2011 7:22pm

Condatis wrote: »

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue.

I realise that when they pull into an incident they can be under pressure, but this practice could cause an accident.

Ambo and fire service normally have "at scene" buttons for lights. This cuts the siren and headlights/headlight flashers and also activates the rear reds.

AGS vehicles dont have this.

Terrontress · 06-04-2011 7:46pm

NGA wrote: »

Ambo and fire service normally have "at scene" buttons for lights. This cuts the siren and headlights/headlight flashers and also activates the rear reds.

AGS vehicles dont have this.

He's talking about Garda vehicles being parked with their car facing the oncoming traffic so I don't think rear reds would be of any use.

Hooch · 06-04-2011 8:04pm

Terrontress wrote: »

He's talking about Garda vehicles being parked with their car facing the oncoming traffic so I don't think rear reds would be of any use.

Yes....and he said hes never seen ambos or fire service facing traffic with their lights on. I explained the functions available to most of these vehicles.....which are not on AGS vehicles

parsi · 06-04-2011 8:52pm

NGA wrote: »

Ambo and fire service normally have "at scene" buttons for lights. This cuts the siren and headlights/headlight flashers and also activates the rear reds.

AGS vehicles dont have this.

There isn't a day that goes by without learning something new on boards.

Is there a particular reason for their omission ?

Decoda · 06-04-2011 8:58pm

I drive a new VW Passatt and I was stopped at a Garda Checkpoint last week and asked to turn off my front fog lights. I tell the Garda that I don't have fog lights turned on. He comes back with the "are you trying to be smart" routine:rolleyes:. I tell the guard that the DLR lights come on automatically when I turn the ignition on and they are located beside the front fog lights on the car. Garda doesn't believe me until I turn on the actual Fog Lights.

He actually apologised :eek:

DC

Corcioch · 07-04-2011 12:42am

dougal wrote: »

Is this a penalty point offence or an on the spot fine?

RVP 11 wrote: »

Both i think.

Its neither actually.

Corcioch · 07-04-2011 12:49am

Condatis wrote: »

I didn't know that there was an Emergency Services forum until now.

I have often seen another serious fault in Garda driving.

When they pull into an incident be it an RTA, a fire or an interception and park on the side of the road facing traffic they tend ti leave headlights or dips on.

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue.

I realise that when they pull into an incident they can be under pressure, but this practice could cause an accident.

Dipped Headlights on during the day will BLIND oncoming drivers?????

Im sorry but that is completely incorrect. Perhaps an incorrectly focused light will project its beam higher than it should, and in a direction it shouldn't but a correctly set dipped headlight will not blind anyone . ..especially by day!!!!

The lights cannot be turned off when a Garda car is running, they are rigged to run all the time, for greater visibility and safety . . .

. . .and a Garda at the side of a road dealing with a collision, or what ever scenario . . .needs as many lights as possible . ..not less . .to enhance visibility and increase protection in a dangerous environment.

Having dipped headlights on by day is not any form of Bad Driving. . . .and hardly constitutes "serious fault" with someones driving . . . .

Shield · 07-04-2011 2:35am

Wasn't there a Lights On Daytime campaign run by Dublin City Council there a good few years ago? I'd love to know if it had any impact on the number of collisions?

highdef · 07-04-2011 6:09am

vampire of kilmainham wrote: »

why dont you set up your own check point and stop all the gardai who are driving with fog lights on:eek::eek::eek:

I'm not a guard and do not have the powers or the authority to do so. My point was simply that some new garda cars are driving with their fog lights. It's posted here because gardai monitor this section of boards so perhaps one of them will take it on board to pass it on to someone higher up who may send out a memo to all drivers telling them to ensure that fog lights are switched off at all times, except when they should actually be used.
You smart ass comment is not appreciated.

Garda cars driving with fog lights on

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