Garda cars driving with fog lights on

highdef

I've noticed recently that with the new Avensis squad cars now on the roads, a lot of them are driving with their fog lights on. Fog lights are one of my pet hates and I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.
Does anyone know what the story with this is? Are the guards trying to "look cool" by having them on or are they not paying attention to their dashes when driving. If the guards are unaware that they are driving with fog lights on, then it's a very bad and very visible message to be sending out to members of the public. I can see absolutely no reason why an emergency services vehicle would need to use fog lights in the normal course of duty unless of course the visibility is poor.
Garda drivers are "professional" drivers, after all. Seeing a foglight symbol on the dash should be spotted immediately by any halfwit paying any sort of attention to their dials and gauges.

highdef

highdef wrote: »

I've noticed recently that with the new Avensis squad cars now on the roads, a lot of them are driving with their fog lights on. Fog lights are one of my pet hates and I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.
Does anyone know what the story with this is? Are the guards trying to "look cool" by having them on or are they not paying attention to their dashes when driving. If the guards are unaware that they are driving with fog lights on, then it's a very bad and very visible message to be sending out to members of the public. I can see absolutely no reason why an emergency services vehicle would need to use fog lights in the normal course of duty unless of course the visibility is poor.
Garda drivers are "professional" drivers, after all. Seeing a foglight symbol on the dash should be spotted immediately by any halfwit paying any sort of attention to their dials and gauges.

The ones I've seen so far don't have the fog lights on them. I would hope the ones that do have them fitted are not being put on by the drivers themselves but that they are one automatically once the car is started. I have noticed the DFB ambulances have them on pretty much all the time too.

dougal

highdef wrote: »

I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.

Is this a penalty point offence or an on the spot fine?

dougal

dougal wrote: »

Is this a penalty point offence or an on the spot fine?

Both i think.

blindsider

I haven't seen these myself, but I wonder are they the new Daytime Running Lights (DRL's) that many new cars seem to be fiited with as standard.

My understanding is that they are now (Feb 11) mandatory* on all new cars.

Commission Directive 2008/89/EC of 24 September 2008 amending, for the purposes of its
adaptation to technical progress, Council Directive 76/756/EEC concerning the installation of lighting
and light-signalling devices on motor vehicles and their trailers - OJ L 257, 25.9.2008, p. 14–15

dougal

dougal wrote: »

Is this a penalty point offence or an on the spot fine?

Summons only. Thats why so many are not prosecuted.

PCPhoto

highdef wrote: »

I've noticed recently that with the new Avensis squad cars now on the roads, a lot of them are driving with their fog lights on. Fog lights are one of my pet hates and I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.
Does anyone know what the story with this is? Are the guards trying to "look cool" by having them on or are they not paying attention to their dashes when driving. If the guards are unaware that they are driving with fog lights on, then it's a very bad and very visible message to be sending out to members of the public. I can see absolutely no reason why an emergency services vehicle would need to use fog lights in the normal course of duty unless of course the visibility is poor.
Garda drivers are "professional" drivers, after all. Seeing a foglight symbol on the dash should be spotted immediately by any halfwit paying any sort of attention to their dials and gauges.

No offence intendend but I've seen Gardai do a lot worse than drive with fog lights on and its not prosecuted.... (in general) they are above the law and on occasion abuse traffic laws.

Taxi drivers are also professional drivers - how many of them have you seen "bend" a traffic law.

there is little or not enough enforcement of traffic laws (something which is difficult to do due to lack of numbers and too many loopholes in the system)..... thats my pet hate (lack of enforcement/accountability....who can we blame???)

highdef

I completely agree with you on all points. I didn't mention taxi drivers (and other drivers) as this is the emergency services forum and I thought inquiring about non emergency services would not be appropriate.
Interesting point about the DLRs, however I had a quick look at the Toyota website for Ireland and there is no mention of DLRs on the current Avensis but the Aura and Strata models have front fog lights fitted. Only the base models do not. Anyone know what spec level the Garda Avensis's are?
I would guess that someone has decided that it would be cool to turn on the foglights and any drivers that have driven afterwards have failed to take a look at the dials and gauges before driving.
Obviously Gardai view and post here so maybe it could be brought up as a general circulation to drivers. I know it's not technically a major thing but as I mentioned earlier, it is an offence and for Gardai to be very obviously committing this offence in public is not a good thing, from a public relations point of view at the very least. If I ask a driver to turn off their fog lights as they are causing me excessive glare, I don't want them to come back to me saying that guards have them on so why can't they.

Slightly off topic but if gardai simply told drivers to switch off their fog lights, say at checkpoints, then this may help a little. I'm sure many drivers don't even know they are committing an offence and also very likely causing excessive glare to other users...some cars are worse than others, as you probably know. Just make sure that the Garda car at the checkpoint has it's own fog lights switched off too

Eru

Im with you completely. fog lights being left on drives me crazy but the major problem with it is the same as annoying loud exhausts, difficult to enforce.

theres no set 'fog light' law and certainly not a ticket or penalty points. I believe it falls under driving without reasonable care but if vehicles are coming with them always on as running lights you cant really run with that summons.

I would hope that Gardai arent driving with them on to look 'cool' but if some have them on and some dont, its not really saying a lot for the driver that has them on imho but maybe we should give the benefit of the doubt, new vehicle and maybe the driver hasnt driven it before.

as for checkpoints, I do and people look at me like I have ten heads when I ask them and explain why.

highdef

Eru wrote: »

but if vehicles are coming with them always on as running lights you cant really run with that summons.

That's quite true, I admit. However, for the majority of cars on the road, it's foglights that are on, rather than DLRs. And it's very easy to spot if they are actually fog lights if you talking to the driver as there will be a fog light symbol lit up on the dash. If they were DLRs, there would be no fog light symbol.

Eru wrote: »

I would hope that Gardai arent driving with them on to look 'cool' but if some have them on and some dont, its not really saying a lot for the driver that has them on imho but maybe we should give the benefit of the doubt, new vehicle and maybe the driver hasnt driven it before.

Fair enough, yes they are new cars and the drivers may not be too familiar. I would have thought that all drivers would have been given an overview of the cars and controls. I'm not a guard so I wouldn't know what the procedure is. Although if I get in to car that is not my normal (company) car, upon turning the ignition, I'll pay attention to all warnings and symbols and be familiar with all the controls before I set off. Maybe I'm too conscientious but I'll know straight away if the fog lights are on....or anything else that shouldn't be on (or off)!

Eru wrote: »

as for checkpoints, I do and people look at me like I have ten heads when I ask them and explain why.

fair play to you and thank you. I've never seen a guard ask a driver to turn off his/her foglights at a checkpoint and it's great to know that at least one is actively doing this. May I ask what the general reply is from drivers when you explain why they should not be switched on? Just curious :rolleyes:

highdef

highdef wrote: »

fair play to you and thank you. I've never seen a guard ask a driver to turn off his/her foglights at a checkpoint and it's great to know that at least one is actively doing this. May I ask what the general reply is from drivers when you explain why they should not be switched on? Just curious :rolleyes:

One I get a bit, mostly from Taxi drivers is "they're not fog lights they are spot lights". To which I reply, turn them off and read your manual. I usually ask drivers if they are having trouble seeing in the fog and get a curious look back.

It does my head in people driving with them on and it annoys me even more that colleagues do it in their own private cars.

highdef

Ah yes, the old "spot light" routine. Yes they are spot lights but oddly enough, in your handbook it says that the symbol lit up on your dash says that it's fog lights that are on. Strange one.

But has been said, there is generally no enforcement * so people feel they can have them on if they want.

*Except by Eru and maybe some others I don't know about

Ludo

highdef wrote: »

That's quite true, I admit. However, for the majority of cars on the road, it's foglights that are on, rather than DLRs. And it's very easy to spot if they are actually fog lights if you talking to the driver as there will be a fog light symbol lit up on the dash. If they were DLRs, there would be no fog light symbol.


Fair enough, yes they are new cars and the drivers may not be too familiar. I would have thought that all drivers would have been given an overview of the cars and controls. I'm not a guard so I wouldn't know what the procedure is. Although if I get in to car that is not my normal (company) car, upon turning the ignition, I'll pay attention to all warnings and symbols and be familiar with all the controls before I set off. Maybe I'm too conscientious but I'll know straight away if the fog lights are on....or anything else that shouldn't be on (or off)!


fair play to you and thank you. I've never seen a guard ask a driver to turn off his/her foglights at a checkpoint and it's great to know that at least one is actively doing this. May I ask what the general reply is from drivers when you explain why they should not be switched on? Just curious :rolleyes:

I've been in my wifes car when she was asked to turn off her front fogs at a checkpoint before so not that uncommon I thought.

parsi

I saw a Traffic Corps car the other day with them on. What's worse was that it was a sunny day.

Years ago in France we ended up travelling in the dusk and I had them on rather than use my un-adjusted headlights. We passed by a Gendarme who took time out from his ticketing of a driver to tell us to turn them off.

It's vaguely related , so - is there a requirement for LHD cars to have beam benders fitted when in Ireland ?

Shield

Warning issued for factually incorrect information which is unsubstantiated and unfair to the men and women of AGS.

No further comment on this post please and thanks.

PCPhoto wrote: »

No offence intendend but I've seen Gardai do a lot worse than drive with fog lights on and its not prosecuted.... (in general) they are above the law and on occasion abuse traffic laws.

savagecabbages

I generally dont find factory fitted foglights too distracting, as they aim at the ground immediately in front of the car, thus not blinding other road users. I've encountered patrol cars with fogs on and dont find it a problem.

Aftermarket ones however, are almost never properly adjusted, and are usually pointed straight ahead(hence useless in fog) blinding any oncoming car and being a nuisance in mirrors!

A bit like the loud exhaust problem...
I know its hard to measure exhaust noise on the road, but surely somebody can be done under different legislation like general noise pollution or being a nuisance late at night. (no idea of what legislation is out there i'm guessing)

parsi

Micras have killer foglights. It's almost like the designers are trying to make up for it being a small ugly car.

highdef

parsi wrote: »

Micras have killer foglights. It's almost like the designers are trying to make up for it being a small ugly car.

Indeed....Micras are horrendous for fog lights which are more like full beams. It's mainly the older Micra model that suffers from this, the 90's/early 00's model(s). The older model Fiesta's were also really bad, the Mark IV I think.

savagecabbages says that he doesn't find factory fitted foglights too distracting, as they aim at the ground immediately in front of the car - This is often the reason why fogs can be so glaring. They may not be so bad on some cars but most of the time, if the ground is very wet the glare can be very very bad, due to the fact that the beams are so close to the ground and therefore create a huge amount of reflected and dangerously glaring light.

Condatis

I didn't know that there was an Emergency Services forum until now.

I have often seen another serious fault in Garda driving.

When they pull into an incident be it an RTA, a fire or an interception and park on the side of the road facing traffic they tend ti leave headlights or dips on.

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue.

I realise that when they pull into an incident they can be under pressure, but this practice could cause an accident.

Irish Fire

These are "driving" lights or DLR as pointed out earlier

vampire of kilmainham

highdef wrote: »

I've noticed recently that with the new Avensis squad cars now on the roads, a lot of them are driving with their fog lights on. Fog lights are one of my pet hates and I believe it is an offence to drive with them on when they should not be on.
Does anyone know what the story with this is? Are the guards trying to "look cool" by having them on or are they not paying attention to their dashes when driving. If the guards are unaware that they are driving with fog lights on, then it's a very bad and very visible message to be sending out to members of the public. I can see absolutely no reason why an emergency services vehicle would need to use fog lights in the normal course of duty unless of course the visibility is poor.
Garda drivers are "professional" drivers, after all. Seeing a foglight symbol on the dash should be spotted immediately by any halfwit paying any sort of attention to their dials and gauges.

why dont you set up your own check point and stop all the gardai who are driving with fog lights on:eek::eek::eek:

Condatis

Condatis wrote: »

I didn't know that there was an Emergency Services forum until now.

I have often seen another serious fault in Garda driving.

When they pull into an incident be it an RTA, a fire or an interception and park on the side of the road facing traffic they tend ti leave headlights or dips on.

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue.

I realise that when they pull into an incident they can be under pressure, but this practice could cause an accident.

Or we pull in to a incident and most of the useless twats on the road don't see the patrol car. One of the reasons why those lights are left on.

Hooch

Condatis wrote: »

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue.

I realise that when they pull into an incident they can be under pressure, but this practice could cause an accident.

Ambo and fire service normally have "at scene" buttons for lights. This cuts the siren and headlights/headlight flashers and also activates the rear reds.

AGS vehicles dont have this.

Terrontress

NGA wrote: »

Ambo and fire service normally have "at scene" buttons for lights. This cuts the siren and headlights/headlight flashers and also activates the rear reds.

AGS vehicles dont have this.

He's talking about Garda vehicles being parked with their car facing the oncoming traffic so I don't think rear reds would be of any use.

Hooch

Terrontress wrote: »

He's talking about Garda vehicles being parked with their car facing the oncoming traffic so I don't think rear reds would be of any use.

Yes....and he said hes never seen ambos or fire service facing traffic with their lights on. I explained the functions available to most of these vehicles.....which are not on AGS vehicles

parsi

NGA wrote: »

Ambo and fire service normally have "at scene" buttons for lights. This cuts the siren and headlights/headlight flashers and also activates the rear reds.

AGS vehicles dont have this.

There isn't a day that goes by without learning something new on boards.

Is there a particular reason for their omission ?

Decoda

I drive a new VW Passatt and I was stopped at a Garda Checkpoint last week and asked to turn off my front fog lights. I tell the Garda that I don't have fog lights turned on. He comes back with the "are you trying to be smart" routine:rolleyes:. I tell the guard that the DLR lights come on automatically when I turn the ignition on and they are located beside the front fog lights on the car. Garda doesn't believe me until I turn on the actual Fog Lights.

He actually apologised :eek:

DC

Corcioch

dougal wrote: »

Is this a penalty point offence or an on the spot fine?

RVP 11 wrote: »

Both i think.

Its neither actually.

Corcioch

Condatis wrote: »

I didn't know that there was an Emergency Services forum until now.

I have often seen another serious fault in Garda driving.

When they pull into an incident be it an RTA, a fire or an interception and park on the side of the road facing traffic they tend ti leave headlights or dips on.

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue.

I realise that when they pull into an incident they can be under pressure, but this practice could cause an accident.

Dipped Headlights on during the day will BLIND oncoming drivers?????

Im sorry but that is completely incorrect. Perhaps an incorrectly focused light will project its beam higher than it should, and in a direction it shouldn't but a correctly set dipped headlight will not blind anyone . ..especially by day!!!!

The lights cannot be turned off when a Garda car is running, they are rigged to run all the time, for greater visibility and safety . . .

. . .and a Garda at the side of a road dealing with a collision, or what ever scenario . . .needs as many lights as possible . ..not less . .to enhance visibility and increase protection in a dangerous environment.

Having dipped headlights on by day is not any form of Bad Driving. . . .and hardly constitutes "serious fault" with someones driving . . . .

Shield

Wasn't there a Lights On Daytime campaign run by Dublin City Council there a good few years ago? I'd love to know if it had any impact on the number of collisions?

highdef

vampire of kilmainham wrote: »

why dont you set up your own check point and stop all the gardai who are driving with fog lights on:eek::eek::eek:

I'm not a guard and do not have the powers or the authority to do so. My point was simply that some new garda cars are driving with their fog lights. It's posted here because gardai monitor this section of boards so perhaps one of them will take it on board to pass it on to someone higher up who may send out a memo to all drivers telling them to ensure that fog lights are switched off at all times, except when they should actually be used.
You smart ass comment is not appreciated.

Condatis

foreign wrote: »

Or we pull in to a incident and most of the useless twats on the road don't see the patrol car. One of the reasons why those lights are left on.

The beacon is sufficient and/or hazard lights. At least they won't blind oncoming motorists.

roundymac

parsi wrote: »

I saw a Traffic Corps car the other day with them on. What's worse was that it was a sunny day.

Years ago in France we ended up travelling in the dusk and I had them on rather than use my un-adjusted headlights. We passed by a Gendarme who took time out from his ticketing of a driver to tell us to turn them off.

It's vaguely related , so - is there a requirement for LHD cars to have beam benders fitted when in Ireland ?

No specific law about beambenders, if your lights are not correctly focused, you could and should be prosecuted.

Irish Fire

Condatis wrote: »

The beacon is sufficient and/or hazard lights. At least they won't blind oncoming motorists.

Do you mind me asking how in the hell lights of this type will blind you in daylight?

Du

It is a fog light.

Getthe****overit.

highdef

Du wrote: »

It is a fog light.

Getthe****overit.

It's a road traffic offence....just like other road traffic offences!
-

Locust

RE: Fog lights

Du wrote: »

It is a fog light. Getthe****overit.

Its four lights - front & rear, which serve absolutely no purpose for you unless its foggy.

Irish Fire wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how in the hell lights of this type will blind you in daylight?

They can obscure your brake lights... and can dazzle/confuse other road users especially if it's wet. Some of the newer cars with led lights have absolute killer dazzle off them if you get them head on.

Its internationally recognised that fog lights are a hazard unless road visibility is seriously reduced so its made an offence - so turn them off. They really don't make your car look any cooler, seriously.

highdef

Indeed. What if I decided that I liked to have my full beams on all the time....sure I can see things much better at night. Who cares if I'm causing excessive glare to other drivers??? I can see better so that must be a good thing. A lot of people who use fog lights say they use them because they light up the road much better. Obviously they do because they are not aimed in the same way as dipped headlights. Depending on the model of car, they can be more of less like full beams. So if someone thinks it's ok to use fog lights because they give of more light for the driver, then why shouldn't I assume it's ok to use my full beams because they give me much better light coverage?
To use either are both similar offences, I believe, yet to drive around with full beams on is very much frowned upon yet fog lights still seem to tolerated, in the main.
And just to clarify, when I say fog lights, I mean fog lights.....full stop. I'm not differentiating between front and rear fog lights. To have either of them on when they should not is the same offence. When visibility is fine, NO fog lights should be on....FULL STOP

goldie fish

Condatis wrote: »

Even dips will blind oncoming drivers even in daylight. Fire Brigades and Ambulances don't seem to do this. All that is needed is a SOP Notice to make Guards aware of the issue..

All Defence Forces vehicles must drive with headlights on at all times, according to DF rules.
Most new motorcycles imported into the country have always on headlights.
Any new vehicle assembled in some countries in Europe will come fitted with always on headlights.

I suggest sunglasses.

savagecabbages

highdef wrote: »

So if someone thinks it's ok to use fog lights because they give of more light for the driver, then why shouldn't I assume it's ok to use my full beams because they give me much better light coverage?

Because using full beams will certainly blind other road users. I see it as acceptable to use fog lights which don't blind other road users. No offence, but thats seems quite a poorly thought out argument. I dont have a problem with the fog lights on the Toyota Avensis petrol cars as these dont blind me.
P.S. if fogs do blind other road users then one shouldn't use them


All Swedish made cars have had daytime running lights for years right?
I think its much safer to have at least some lights on during the day. A member of my family was seriously injured when an oncoming car overtook a bus and ploughed straight into her. He said he never saw her and pulled out. It was a tree lined section of road and the sun was low in the sky. Perhaps if she had lights on the other driver may have copped she was there. Perhaps not, who knows ?!?!?
Lights on. All the time.

UpstateEMS

Corcioch wrote: »

A Garda at the side of a road dealing with a collision, or what ever scenario . . .needs as many lights as possible . ..not less . .to enhance visibility and increase protection in a dangerous environment.

This has been disproved in the States. There is a movement towards reducing the number of rear facing lights left on when parked and a focus on ensuring that an amber light is displayed to the rear as there is evidence that this may deter people from running in to the rear of an emergency vehicle. Too many lights dazzle oncoming drivers and actually 'suck' them in to the emergency vehicle.

As an aside, ambulances and fire apparatus in the States must now also ship from the factory with rear facing chevrons to be compliant with the latest NFPA guidance. This measure has also been shown to reduce the number of rear end collisions. (This has been standard practice in Europe for many years now to the best of my knowledge.)

Ultimately, if you want to reduce the risk to emergency responders of being struck, use the biggest vehicle you have to protect the responders, slow traffic down before blind corners, reduce the number of responders who are in harms way in the first place, and be more aggressive about simply shutting the road down in the first place.

Rant over.

Shield

UpstateEMS wrote: »

This has been disproved in the States.

We love being able to see this proof for ourselves on this forum. Any idea where we can read how, when or where it was disproved?

UpstateEMS

psni wrote: »

We love being able to see this proof for ourselves on this forum. Any idea where we can read how, when or where it was disproved?

A lot of this was done by the New York State Police a few years ago when there were a rash of Ford Crown Victoria's igniting after rear end collisions. I'll see if I can find some more hard info about it.

belacqua_

psni wrote: »

We love being able to see this proof for ourselves on this forum. Any idea where we can read how, when or where it was disproved?

Emergency Warning Lights & Parking Procedures

Are They Protecting Us And Making The Emergency Scene Safer?



http://www.firehouse.com/node/42015

*Edit: Also, a host of FEMA sponsored research on emergency vehicle lighting here:

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/fireservice/research/safety/vehicle.shtm

Eru

savagecabbages wrote: »

A bit like the loud exhaust problem...
I know its hard to measure exhaust noise on the road, but surely somebody can be done under different legislation like general noise pollution or being a nuisance late at night. (no idea of what legislation is out there i'm guessing)

Your last statement says it all, theres sweet FA genuine usable legislation. You need to throw the car on a machine to test the noise levels at certain conditions. A machine thats not available to 99% of Gardai. Its total unrealistic.

I had hoped the greens would tackle this as they promised noise pollution was something they were going to deal with.

savagecabbages

Really? I'm no expert on legislation or laws tbh...

If someone is playing loud music at a party, or screaming/making a racket at a night or something, how is that dealt with?
I'm kinda wondering if someone driving a car with a loud exhaust can be penalised with without actually measuring the Db level??
There are so many ways around a measuring device i just cant see them being effective. having to hold a car at x revs when every car revs to a different max rpm isn't fair either.

highdef

savagecabbages wrote: »

Because using full beams will certainly blind other road users. I see it as acceptable to use fog lights which don't blind other road users. No offence, but thats seems quite a poorly thought out argument. I dont have a problem with the fog lights on the Toyota Avensis petrol cars as these dont blind me.
P.S. if fogs do blind other road users then one shouldn't use them

Savagecabbages, I have to apologise. When I made the comments about using full beams, I was actually being sarcastic. The sarcasm obviously didn't come through in the post.

But as for your comment saying that you don't have a problem having fog lights on if they're not blinding.....that's not the point. It's an offence to use them when they should not be used, full stop.

It's fine to break a red light if there's nobody around but it's still offence. It might be completely safe but you still are not allowed.

savagecabbages

savagecabbages wrote: »

If someone is playing loud music at a party, or screaming/making a racket at a night or something, how is that dealt with?

Noisy party? No obligation to turn the noise down. In fact, it's not a garda matter and some dispatchers will cancel calls put in. All we can do if we go to a call is ask for the noise to be turned down.

If someone is doing it on the street then we can use the public order act. That doesn't cover cars I'm afraid.

savagecabbages

Unfortunately sarcasm is quite hard to pull off in text form...;)

that's not the point. It's an offence to use them when they should not be used, full stop.

I'm not trying to argue that its legal or not, i'm simply saying i dont see the problem if the lights aren't blinding people or causing a nuisance. One of these laws for which a touch of 'human policing' is required to enforce.

Noisy party? No obligation to turn the noise down. In fact, it's not a garda matter and some dispatchers will cancel calls put in. All we can do if we go to a call is ask for the noise to be turned down.

I'm vy surprised by this! So if i was making a racket with music up loud and a guard comes knocking at my door i can tell him get lost and keep the music up?? [not that i'd do that of course]

Guess i've bee completely mis-informed all my life about what exactly the public order act covers... Surely making a racket in a public place is a nuisance regardless if its with a car/trumpet/drum/voice???

goldie fish

savagecabbages wrote: »

Unfortunately sarcasm is quite hard to pull off in text form...;)


I'm not trying to argue that its legal or not, i'm simply saying i dont see the problem if the lights aren't blinding people or causing a nuisance. One of these laws for which a touch of 'human policing' is required to enforce.


I'm vy surprised by this! So if i was making a racket with music up loud and a guard comes knocking at my door i can tell him get lost and keep the music up?? [not that i'd do that of course]

Guess i've bee completely mis-informed all my life about what exactly the public order act covers... Surely making a racket in a public place is a nuisance regardless if its with a car/trumpet/drum/voice???

There is a certain hour beyond which it is unreasonable to play loud music, but I think it a civil matter, rather than a Public order one, and the gardai may "call" to inform the resident of this.
However, if when they call, If they discover other illegal activity taking place, or suspect such may be, then there is a range of legislation that permits them to enter without warrant.....
Or, in certain circumstances, a warrant may be sought....during the course of searches, devices producing loud noise have been known to be accidentally damaged....

savagecabbages

Cheers

So the guards have basically very little power to stop people making noise causing annoyance to others?
What about doing somebody with a noisy car on civil grounds?
Or does it have to be under road legislation if its a car which is causing the racket??

Seems, as mentioned earlier in the thread, there is a massive gap in legislation for this kind of thing...