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MUX 2 launch date ?

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    #752
    jimbowilson
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭jimbowilson


    Mr. Rabbit wrote: »
    Unless of course, they're preparing to launch !

    A radio ham i was chatting too and also happens to be RTE engineer says 2nd half of next year at the earliest. It'll be on/off with tests etc. I forgot to ask what's all going to be on MUX-2.
    I remember when Holywell Hill was running tests, we had the full channels on air and testing for 2 years.

    RTE secret TV service lol


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    #753
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    They could be testing equipment or coverage or interference.

    Or just winding us up.


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    #754
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    My experience dealing with Senior RTELN engineer is that RTE management don't tell anyone WHY anything is being done.

    Don't mention names as it's a "dissmissable" offence for RTENL staff to communicate anything RTE Management tells them to anyone not working on it.


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    #755
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    jimbowilson wrote: »
    A radio ham i was chatting too and also happens to be RTE engineer says 2nd half of next year at the earliest. It'll be on/off with tests etc. I forgot to ask what's all going to be on MUX-2.
    I remember when Holywell Hill was running tests, we had the full channels on air and testing for 2 years.

    RTE secret TV service lol

    Was there not something about RTE 1 HD starting soon ?

    Or is there space on the existing mux ?


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    #756
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Existing mux is full (over-full, I'd contend, seeing that the SD channels have appalling horizontal resolution, and the radio channels are muck.)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #757
    jimbowilson
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭jimbowilson


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Existing mux is full (over-full, I'd contend, seeing that the SD channels have appalling horizontal resolution, and the radio channels are muck.)

    I have to agree with you about the quality of picture with the SD channels. They are awful and hope something's done about that.
    Is RTE2 broadcast in full HD? Looks like we need that second MUX badly to improve things. What we have apart from RTE 2 is not much better than analogue at the moment.


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    #758
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Existing mux has 18Mbit for video, 6 for RTE2HD and 2 each for the six SD channels (on average)
    So 2 muxes would give us 36Mbit to play with
    If the four 'main' channels all go HD that's 24Mbit, 3e, RTE1+1/Jr and News Now can all stay SD, so that's 6Mbit left over, enough for a new HD channel - if there was funding for the film channel that'd be a good use for it...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #759
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Saorsat - what capacity issues might that have if any? Why are we using DTT at all?


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    #760
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mike65 wrote: »
    Saorsat - what capacity issues might that have if any? Why are we using DTT at all?

    I can see a few reasons:

    The Irish (especially in rural areas) seem to have an anti-dish psyche.

    For the system to be truly under our control, we'd need to build and launch our own satellite. Possibly two, for redundancy (BSB anyone?). Satellites can and do fail, it could end up wiping out a whole country's TV service.


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    #761
    MarkK
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    Karsini wrote: »
    The Irish (especially in rural areas) seem to have an anti-dish psyche.

    Do they? every second house has a Sky dish.


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    #762
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MarkK wrote: »
    Do they? every second house has a Sky dish.

    It was used as one of the arguments about the west Cork relays being initially left out of the Saorview rollout.


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    #763
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Existing mux has 18Mbit for video, 6 for RTE2HD and 2 each for the six SD channels (on average)
    So 2 muxes would give us 36Mbit to play with
    If the four 'main' channels all go HD that's 24Mbit, 3e, RTE1+1/Jr and News Now can all stay SD, so that's 6Mbit left over, enough for a new HD channel - if there was funding for the film channel that'd be a good use for it...

    If we only have 4 HD channels then it makes sense for them to be split between the two muxes. RTE 1HD and RTE 2HD on Mux1, with TV3HD and TG4HD on Mux2. That leaves 6Mbt/s on each mux, enough for 3 SD channels. On mux1, RTE NN and RTE Jr makes sense, leaving room for one SD channel.

    On Mux2, we could have 3E, and a second TG4 channel. That would leave room for one SD channel.

    There are two candidates for those two slots OTV and Irish Film channel.

    Makes sense.


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    #764
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Doesn't make sense IMHO to launch a film channel and then squash it into a 2Mbit SD allocation (it's not even full SD resolution.) Most of the cost will be content not transmission.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #765
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,523 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    mike65 wrote: »
    Saorsat - what capacity issues might that have if any? Why are we using DTT at all?
    Karsini wrote: »
    For the system to be truly under our control, we'd need to build and launch our own satellite. Possibly two, for redundancy (BSB anyone?). Satellites can and do fail, it could end up wiping out a whole country's TV service.

    This quote from an Oireachtas committee discussion a few years back on DTT
    Deputy Jimmy Devins: I welcome all the witnesses and will be brief. Although I am not into technology in a big way, if I understand this correctly, the stopping of analogue transmission, which is one system, will result in its replacement by two systems, namely, DTT and satellite. The advantage of using the latter is to cover the 2% to 3% who will not be covered by DTT. Why not simply use the single system of satellite transmission to provide 100% coverage? Why must one go down the DTT route?
    ...

    [not answered directly but Bob Collins did make the following reply later]

    Mr. Bob Collins: ... Throughout the debate on this issue during the past eight or ten years, a key underlying point of public policy has been that the State should have an Irish-owned transmission system to carry the four national channels, one that would not be dependent on external economic circumstances or an external force. Hence the necessity of a domestic transmission system. The satellite option does everything mentioned by Mr. Hayes, namely, extending coverage and providing a back-up, but one could not dispense with DTT by virtue of the availability of satellite because, in the last analysis, the satellite option is not within the control of the State.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=MAJ20100714.XML&Ex=All&Page=1


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    #766
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Cheers, so we don't trust Luxembourg!


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    #767
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,523 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    mike65 wrote: »
    Cheers, so we don't trust Luxembourg!

    I don't think Luxembourg would be a problem, I believe they own about 16% of SES.


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    #768
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    mike65 wrote: »
    Saorsat - what capacity issues might that have if any?

    I believe it has space reserved for 2 muxes. More capacity can be bought (which means less for satellite broadband, but were they going to be able to sell all of it anyway? The spots concerned only cover Ireland so the bandwith can only be used within Ireland.)
    Why are we using DTT at all?

    Cheaper receivers (effectively 'free' for recently bought compatible TVs)
    Reception possible in many areas with a small aerial or even an indoor aerial. No dish required.
    Many apartment dwellers get hassle over erecting dishes. They may be able to get away with a set-top aerial (or a loft-type UHF aerial looking through a window.)
    Existing Sky-type dishes are no good for Saorsat (Ka-band passes through mesh, dish is too small, can't take multi-LNB bracket)
    Larger dishes that can handle Saorsat and 28.2E (Sky/Freesat/UK FTA) at the same time are more expensive, more visually intrusive, and much more tricky to set up (not DIY)
    Satellite signals are more tricky and expensive to distribute around a house.
    If two dishes are used for Saorsat and 28.2E then planning permission is required.
    Iran has had good success in jamming BBC World etc. satellite signals, our entire TV infrastructure could be jammed by a malicious actor and we could do nothing about it.
    Lower UHF bands aren't much use for mobile, etc so little to be gained in selling them off.
    That's enough to be getting on with :)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #769
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Also, one good solar flare and we'd could be left without TV for years.


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    #770
    peking97
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭peking97


    ...and one really good solar flare and TV would be the least of our worries:)


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    #771
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    We already see Sky jacking their prices in an ever upward direction, so if we were dependant on a satellite provider, would they behave any differently? We already have the highest telephone line rental because we sold off the company and it has been further endebted by every owner since (and there have been many).


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    #772
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Existing mux has 18Mbit for video, 6 for RTE2HD and 2 each for the six SD channels (on average)
    How much bandwidth do the channels on Astra or Sarosat get by comparison ?


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    #773
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,660 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    How much bandwidth do the channels on Astra or Sarosat get by comparison ?

    Saorsat currently carries similar to Saorview less TV3 and 3E.

    On Astra Sky's mux carries different channels including RTE2 SD MPEG2 and RTE2HD MPEG4 seperately. See here for the details
    http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/skyuk.html

    Before someone calculated that RTE2HD on Sky is higher quality than RTE2HD on Saorview. I would suspect the quality on Saorsat may be higher as less stations are combined but I am not sure.


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    #774
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    RTE Two HD on satellite is 1920x1080 at 12Mbit constant. It also has 384k AC3 audio
    RTE Two HD on Saorview is 1440x1080 at 1 to 9Mbit, averaging at 6. It has 192k MP2 audio

    The version on satellite is clearly higher quality on both resolution and bitrate.

    The RTE channels on Sky were 544x576 last time I checked, I assume nothing's changed


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    #775
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Any idea what the bit rate for RTE1/TG4 is on Saorsat ?


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    #776
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I doubt they'd re-encode just for Saorsat. They don't want to spend more money on equipment or bandwidth than they really have to, for what is a minority/backup service.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #777
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,660 ✭✭✭zg3409


    ninja900 wrote: »
    I doubt they'd re-encode just for Saorsat. They don't want to spend more money on equipment or bandwidth than they really have to, for what is a minority/backup service.

    I think the encoder also combines the channels. The channel lineup for Saorsat is different so I would assume a different encoder is being used. The encoder takes all the channels and based on available bandwidth attempts to make all channels as high quality as possible. Given the same bandwidth, but less channels could mean greater quality.


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    #778
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So if we had no TV3 or 3e on Saorview we could get significantly better PQ on the other channels.
    I like your thinking :)

    You're right of course, they stat-mux the channels together so bitrate can vary a lot. But... what if they took the Saorview stat-muxed output and just disabled the TV3 and 3e data streams? Would that be possible?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #779
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    ninja900 wrote: »
    But... what if they took the Saorview stat-muxed output and just disabled the TV3 and 3e data streams? Would that be possible?

    Very possible and maybe 1/50th of the cost or less. A re-multiplexer is a cheap piece of kit that does nearly nothing. An Encoder could cost €70,000 or more.


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    #780
    glimmerman123
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭glimmerman123


    Mux 2 from Maghera is fired up but no test channels on it.


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    #781
    JeffK88
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭JeffK88


    A new channel popped up today on channel 9. SSU any idea what it is ?. Its blank and says service unavailale.


This discussion has been closed.
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