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MUX 2 launch date ?

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    #482
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Elmo wrote: »
    Would satellite broadband not help both Sky and UPC MMDS in rural areas?

    No, Satellite BB is shíte and only suitable for places like the west coast of Inishvickillaune. The largest satellite up there ( by far) is Ka Sat. Ka Sat can only deliver the capacity of a small rural exchange on the aggregate. :(


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    #483
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Jpmarn wrote: »
    UPC is the worst service for availability. It is only available in cabled areas in our major cities. Sky is the best followed by Saorview.

    Saorview & Saorsat would have better coverage than Sky. Officially 98% of population can get Saorview with a standard roof aerial, that figure will go up with large boosted aerials etc. and there's the Saorsat option as well. The Ka-Sat 9°E (Saorsat) satellite appears higher above the horizon than Astra 28.2°E (which Freesat & Sky use) so the chance of it being obstructed by trees/buildings etc is less.

    But most people in this country still think that satellite TV = paying money to Sky :rolleyes:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #484
    MarkK
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    ninja900 wrote: »
    This is completely unacceptable for a licence fee funded channel :mad:

    I don't agree.
    The alternatives would be:

    1. To launch Mux 2 just to carry a few of hours of HD content a week, which would be a further waste of licence payer money.

    2. Despite TG4 upgrading their systems to HD, they refuse to allow UPC access to HD pictures because Mux 2 is not ready yet.


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    #485
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    MarkK wrote: »
    I don't agree.
    The alternatives would be:

    1. To launch Mux 2 just to carry a few of hours of HD content a week, which would be a further waste of licence payer money.

    2. Despite TG4 upgrading their systems to HD, they refuse to allow UPC access to HD pictures because Mux 2 is not ready yet.

    1. Launch MUX 2 with an up-scaled TG4 HD BÓG as was the case with RTÉ Two and put up Community TV and some non-RTÉ radio stations.
    2. Despite upgrading their systems to HD ready for broadcast TG4 failed to approach the Department.

    Does anyone believe that anyone in the department has heard the news that TG4 is going to start some broadcasts in HD? I doubt it, and if you ask about it they will say that such a service is a commercial issue for UPC and TG4, even though it clearly is not. Or in the words of Fr. Jack "That would be an Ecumenical matter".


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    #486
    MarkK
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    Elmo wrote: »
    1. Launch MUX 2 with an up-scaled TG4 HD BÓG as was the case with RTÉ Two and put up Community TV and some non-RTÉ radio stations.
    That wasn't the case for RTÉ Two, Mux One was already there.
    Elmo wrote: »
    2. Despite upgrading their systems to HD ready for broadcast TG4 failed to approach the Department.
    "approach the Department" for what?

    The situation with HD is the same as when the went to 16:9 widescreen.
    it isn't really a new service, it's just an existing service migrating to HD.

    And similarly 16:9 anamorphic widescreen for all the Irish PSBs was initially available only on pay platforms.

    In Northern Ireland, UTV HD is only available on pay TV.


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    #487
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    MarkK wrote: »
    That wasn't the case for RTÉ Two, Mux One was already there.

    "approach the Department" for what?

    The situation with HD is the same as when the went to 16:9 widescreen.
    it isn't really a new service, it's just an existing service migrating to HD.

    And similarly 16:9 anamorphic widescreen for all the Irish PSBs was initially available only on pay platforms.

    In Northern Ireland, UTV HD is only available on pay TV.

    RTÉ had to approach the department for all proposed channels including RTÉ TWO HD and we all made your point at the time that RTÉ TWO HD was no more than RTÉ going colour or as you suggest going widescreen. But TV3 found time to come up with reasons as to why RTÉ TWO HD should not be allowed :rolleyes:

    If it where the case RTÉ One HD could go on to MUX 2 with TG4.

    MUX 1
    RTÉ ONE HD
    RTÉ TWO HD
    TV3
    3E

    MUX 2
    TG4 HD
    RTÉ ONE +1
    Community TV
    RTÉ News Now

    UTV is not a publicly owned PSB, however I suspect they will aim for FreeView.


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    #488
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Elmo wrote: »
    RTÉ had to approach the department for all proposed channels including RTÉ TWO HD and we all made your point at the time that RTÉ TWO HD was no more than RTÉ going colour or as you suggest going widescreen. But TV3 found time to come up with reasons as to why RTÉ TWO HD should not be allowed :rolleyes:

    If it where the case RTÉ One HD could go on to MUX 2 with TG4.

    MUX 1
    RTÉ ONE HD
    RTÉ TWO HD
    TV3
    3E

    MUX 2
    TG4 HD
    RTÉ ONE +1
    Community TV
    RTÉ News Now

    UTV is not a publicly owned PSB, however I suspect they will aim for FreeView.

    What would make more sense would be:
    MUX 1
    RTÉ ONE HD
    RTÉ TWO HD
    RTE 1+1
    RTE News Now

    MUX 2
    TG4 HD
    TV3 HD
    OTV/Community TV
    3e

    So Mux1 becomes RTE Mux, and Mux2 becomes Com Mux.

    It makes more sense that way.


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    #489
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    What would make more sense would be:
    MUX 1
    RTÉ ONE HD
    RTÉ TWO HD
    RTE 1+1
    RTE News Now

    MUX 2
    TG4 HD
    TV3 HD
    OTV/Community TV
    3e

    So Mux1 becomes RTE Mux, and Mux2 becomes Com Mux.

    It makes more sense that way.

    Don't call it com mux as they have been made available yet.

    BAI Mux perhaps.

    Anyway you get my drift.


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    #490
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The Home and Away Muxes :D


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    #491
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Getting a strong signal here on Ch39.... but no channels being broadcast. I assume this is from Mt Leinster. Anyone else able to confirm?


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    #492
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Getting something on 39 varying wildly. The guys have been messing with Mt L all w/end and since early today.


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    #493
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    Getting something on 39 varying wildly. The guys have been messing with Mt L all w/end and since early today.

    It must be coming from Mt. L - steady signal here. Weather conditions are flat so can't be anything to do with a lift. No channels or network credentials being broadcast. Why would RTE even need to test on Ch39, when they are moving frequency?


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    #494
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    Could be Preseli - one of their multiplexes is due to move to E39 in the autumn and it's possible they're firing it up to check for coverage issues before the suspension of non-essential engineering work during the Olympics & Paralympics. Makes no sense for RTÉNL to fire it up from Mt. Leinster unless there is some urgent need prior to ASO on 24/10. If it is a 'blank' multiplex I'd guess it's the former as if RTÉNL fire up mux 2 it tends to carry test cards at least.


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    #495
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    What would make more sense would be:
    MUX 1
    RTÉ ONE HD
    RTÉ TWO HD
    RTE 1+1
    RTE News Now

    MUX 2
    TG4 HD
    TV3 HD
    OTV/Community TV
    3e

    So Mux1 becomes RTE Mux, and Mux2 becomes Com Mux.

    It makes more sense that way.

    The reason it wasn't done this way was that Mux 1 was on the optimised frequencies. TG4 are not commercial station.
    marclt wrote: »
    It must be coming from Mt. L - steady signal here. Weather conditions are flat so can't be anything to do with a lift. No channels or network credentials being broadcast. Why would RTE even need to test on Ch39, when they are moving frequency?

    There is mux carrier on Ch 39 and it is from Mt Leinster. No Services are being broadcast.


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    #496
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    STB wrote: »
    The reason it wasn't done this way was that Mux 1 was on the optimised frequencies.

    We are talking about when Mux 2 comes online. TG4 softly announce HD on UPC, and everyone questions when is Mux 2 start up full time.

    When Mux 2 starts up will it be due to the addition of HD channels over any new channels? I would have thought so.

    Where do RTÉ One HD, TV3HD and TG4HD go on Saorview?


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    #497
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Elmo wrote: »
    We are talking about when Mux 2 comes online. TG4 softly announce HD on UPC, and everyone questions when is Mux 2 start up full time.

    When Mux 2 starts up will it be due to the addition of HD channels over any new channels? I would have thought so.

    Where do RTÉ One HD, TV3HD and TG4HD go on Saorview?

    ?

    I would be very surprised if TG4 launched on UPC before being on Saorview. Tg4HD can ONLY be requested as a must carry service when it is available. It is not available now. It will be available from 30/9.

    And despite what MarkK thinks a HD service does constitute a new service and does require ministerial consent. The same as it did for RTE2HD.

    When the Minister asked for new content submissions a while back the plans for Mux 2 kicked in when stations identified that they would be moving to HD.

    Yes you are right there will be no SD simulcasts on Saorview.

    Mux 1 will not carry all the RTE stations.


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    #498
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    STB wrote: »
    The reason it wasn't done this way was that Mux 1 was on the optimised frequencies. TG4 are not commercial station.



    I did not think there was a hirearchy in muxes. If we have four HD channels, the two per mux is the way to go. If we have two HD channels on a mux, there is room for three SD channels. RTE are getting two HD and three SD channels, which neatly fills mux one. TV3HD and TG4HD then go on mux two, along with 3e and OTV/Film/Community/Access.

    OTV is already on UPC, so all we need is the Film channel, long prommised.


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    #499
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    I think one reason for the possible delay in launching the second mux is how will the capacity be charged for, the cost of the operation of the mux split between the services that use it or per the actual capacity used.

    This came up in the BAI report on possible new channels last year and in a recent Dáil reply we know the DTT Mux Tariff issue isn't sorted yet.


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    #500
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    I think one reason for the possible delay in launching the second mux is how will the capacity be charged for, the cost of the operation of the mux split between the services that use it or per the actual capacity used.

    This came up in the BAI report on possible new channels last year and in a recent Dáil reply we know the DTT Mux Tariff issue isn't sorted yet.

    I doubt there has been any real discussions surrounding the cost of appearing on Soarview.

    Community TV are off the opinion that they should be given free access, I agree with this as they are mainly a voluntary organisation, such cost then needs to be spread across all other channels on the muxs.

    AFAIK the BAI report was return to the BAI for further analysis and it has not yet been returned to the minister for a decision. (IMO back pedaling by the department).

    Oireahtas TV are also of the view that they should be available free on the second mux, as according to them the licence fee pays for it and it should be given free access as OTV is a public channel, this suggests that AerLingus* should not have to pay fees to the DAA as both are state owned :rolleyes:

    IFB Channel is a lost cause forget it, it won't happen, they fail to talk to anyone outside the IFB, really they just want the sound and vision fund to themselves, without the bother of the broadcasters.

    Meanwhile UPC will tell TV3 and TG4 they can go HD on the UPC cable platform for free, and both will hope the knock on effect is that they will appear on Sky, forget free HD.

    Dusty Rhoads said something interesting at the launch of his radio mux to the Sunday Business post. What we have are large companies with huge rivalry unwilling to talk to each other in the private sector, non of whom what to talk to RTÉ.

    From the Sunday Business Post: -
    He said that he believed that DAB could only be established by an independent 3rd party in Ireland at the moment.

    " You have groups of enemies in ownership positions in Irish radio at the moment", he said, "They're not interested in dealing with each other and they're not interested in dealing with RTÉ"



    *yes yes I know AerLingus is only partly owned by the state.


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    #501
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    I doubt there has been any real discussions surrounding the cost of appearing on Soarview.

    Inital Comreg analysis on DTT tariffs submitted to the Dept in June, next step is to consult with broadcasters.


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    #502
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    Inital Comreg analysis on DTT tariffs submitted to the Dept in June, next step is to consult with broadcasters.

    An initial analysis in June 2012? Is that real discussion?


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    #503
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The charges for DTT should be less than that for the equivalent analogue transmission. We currently have four analogue channels, and we are moving to 2 DVB channels, so in simple terms that should be half the transmitter cost. The rest is capital, which was €70m, written off over 10 years means €7m per year. Add a bit for maintence, €10m per year. I remember a figure of €3m to €4.5m per analogue channel being mentioned a while back. So, if TV3 coughs up €3m per year, TG4 - €3m per year, and RTE €6m to €8m per year - that is about right. This will allow mux1 and mux2 to go on air, with TG4 HD and TV3 HD, and RTE 1HD and RTE 2HD all fitting. TV3 should pay extra for 3e, and TG4 should get something for IFT and OTV which should be run by them.

    Simples.:)


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    #504
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I spoke to a person who works in RTE and they still have not upgraded all studios for HD. I can't see RTE1 HD launching until the cameras for the late late show etc. are upgraded. RTE had intended building all new studios on a new site....


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    #505
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    zg3409 wrote: »
    I spoke to a person who works in RTE and they still have not upgraded all studios for HD. I can't see RTE1 HD launching until the cameras for the late late show etc. are upgraded. RTE had intended building all new studios on a new site....

    If you beleive TV3, they will be ready for HD in September. TG4 say they will be ready in September. RTE1 will not be ready, but it is not just the cameras that need upgrading. Even if they just upgraded the weather and news, it would allow them to go HD, with the majority of output upscaled. So perhaps Mux2 could launch at or about October 2012, with the 4 main channels in HD.


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    #506
    boardzz
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭boardzz


    RTE only invested in widescreen cameras in the last few years.


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    #507
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Response to email enquiry:
    TG4 wrote:
    Ladies Final on UPC this Sept. awaiting info from platform provider re Saorview HD

    Pádhraic Ó Ciardha
    TG4


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    #508
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    boardzz wrote: »
    RTE only invested in widescreen cameras in the last few years.

    Surely they purchased HD cameras.:mad:

    I would think it is the playout system that is the problem, not just the cameras, but I do not know.


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    #509
    pa990
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    If Mux 2 is filled with +1's and more shyte tabloid channels from TV3..

    uhhh i give up


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    #510
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    pa990 wrote: »
    If Mux 2 is filled with +1's and more shyte tabloid channels from TV3..

    uhhh i give up

    It will not carry any extra channels, I would think - just HD versions of the four analogue channels. Basically, no provider wants to pay for extra channels. Going HD should not cost much extra than the cost of analogue.

    Of course, TV3 will have the poormouth, and threaten to sue everyone in sight if they do not get their share of the licence money, and their share of the advertising pot, and the monopoly of RTE must be ended, and .... and .... ... You must have heard the rest several times already. Life is so unfair. Fancy having your €80million debt parked (interest free) and still bitching.


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    #511
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    If there are 4 HD channels they have to be split between the Muxes. Also no SD versions. A channel will be SD only or HD /Upscalled SD to HD only. (Regulars know this).


This discussion has been closed.
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