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Dying To Have Known (A Gerson Therapy Documentary)

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    #302
    Obelisk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭Obelisk


    King Mob wrote: »
    Books, lectures, consultations.
    I've already shown an example of a "natural" medicine company that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Or you know, he could just be crazy.

    Show me the books, lectures consultations?

    He could just be telling the truth either, now there's a though.


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    #303
    clever_name
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭clever_name


    Pixel8 wrote: »
    With regard to corrupt doctors, im sure most doctors are not knowingly corrupt but do participate and play the game without realising that there's other information outside their controlled medical journals which is even more important.

    Smart enough to become a doctor - too dumb to use the internet. Yeah that makes sense, if you ignore logic and reason.


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    #304
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Pixel8 wrote: »
    With regard to corrupt doctors, im sure most doctors are not knowingly corrupt but do participate and play the game without realising that there's other information outside their controlled medical journals which is even more important.
    Are all scientific journals controlled, or just the medical journals?

    Do you know who controls them?


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    #305
    ed2hands
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    jh79 wrote: »
    From reading this thread i think the anti-pharma posters not interested in learning how science / body works and therefore why Mercola et al are wrong, but its more to do with politics / anti-capatilism, why else ignore all the scientific holes on these alternative medicine sites

    Can't speak for anyone else but myself, and this in no way relates specifically to either Gerson or Mercola as i am not familiar with either, but the "pro-Pharma posters" (to borrow and alter your phrasology) have not really said anything of note to personally sway me from my views on the pharma and food industry. I'm also very aware that some contributers will view this statement and hazard or possibly even comment that i am somehow cognitively impaired or have a worldview or something. That's to be expected.


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    #306
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    ed2hands wrote: »
    Can't speak for anyone else but myself, and this in no way relates specifically to either Gerson or Mercola as i am not familiar with either, but the "pro-Pharma posters" (to borrow and alter your phrasology) have not really said anything of note to personally sway me from my views on the pharma and food industry. I'm also very aware that some contributers will view this statement and hazard or possibly even comment that i am somehow cognitively impaired or have a worldview or something. That's to be expected.

    I know your views on the food and pharma industries, thats not the point I'm making. But alot of the CT websites suh as natural news are full of bull which any undergraduate science student could see right through yet are held in high esteem in this forum.

    Would be refreshing if you said for example "eating carrots (organic of course!) cures cancer is bull but I still think big pharma has too much influence".

    It seems if your anti big pharma you have to believe every alternative treatment there is works no matter how outlandish.

    Its like watching Fox news reading the CT forum sometimes in which a script has to be stuck too.

    ps when i say you i mean the people on this thread that are pro alt medicine

    Your gonna say I'm biased too but the chemistry of natural products is an important part of science degrees and so on, so I'm just as open to natural science as synthetic, but both have to work within the laws of science.

    Don't say that the teaching of science is part of the conspiracy, you gave credit to surgeons etc previously, chemist in collaboration with MD etc use their understanding of the human body to come up with these drugs. Some work as expected others don't (this is where a conspiracy is most likely ie suppression of bad results) but it doesn't mean by default that collodial silver or gerson are valid treatments.


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    #307
    ed2hands
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    I agree with most of your points there jh79 and can understand why there is frustration.

    No doubts, some alternative treatments don't work except as a placebo and equally the pharma industry has produced countless life-saving and life-prolonging medicines.
    It's true that there are plenty of shysters out there, in both industries, but it's not IMO an excuse to see all natural/herbal remedies/health proponents bashed or banned on the back this.


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    #308
    Pixel8
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Pixel8


    jh79 wrote: »
    Your body can't tell the difference between natural and synthetic chemicals

    I totally disagree with that. The main difference as i see it is that synthetic drugs are artificial and target the suppression of certain functions in the body to 'turn off' pain etc. artificial drugs do not cure anything, they just suppress the symptoms most of the time.

    Natural vitamins and minerals are what your organs actually need in order to operate and work properly so feeding your body with natural vitamins and minerals (fruit and veg) or vitamin supplements is still a lot better than synthetic drugs. Because you're addressing the root cause of your problem. Vitamins and minerals give your organs what they need to work perfectly and once they have the nutrition they need, the body fixes itself.

    Science still doesn't know much about how all this works... so to deny the positive effect that vitamins have is just arrogant. We know they work, but we don't know how exactly they work.

    http://www.healthsupplementsnutritionalguide.com/vitamin-deficiency-symptoms.html


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    #309
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Obelisk wrote: »
    Show me the books, lectures consultations?

    He could just be telling the truth either, now there's a though.
    Yes, so we have two possibilities. So how do you know that one is true and the other is not?


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    #310
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Pixel8 wrote: »
    Because you're addressing the root cause of your problem. Vitamins and minerals give your organs what they need to work perfectly and once they have the nutrition they need, the body fixes itself.
    But that's not how the body, drugs or disease work.
    Stop swallowing everything you are being told by snake oil sales men and actually crack open a textbook.
    Pixel8 wrote: »
    Science still doesn't know much about how all this works... so to deny the positive effect that vitamins have is just arrogant. We know they work, but we don't know how exactly they work.
    But how do you actually know they work in the first place?


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    #311
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    ed2hands wrote: »
    I agree with most of your points there jh79 and can understand why there is frustration.

    No doubts, some alternative treatments don't work except as a placebo and equally the pharma industry has produced countless life-saving and life-prolonging medicines.
    It's true that there are plenty of shysters out there, in both industries, but it's not IMO an excuse to see all natural/herbal remedies/health proponents bashed or banned on the back this.

    Thats a reasonable stand point even though i disagree, but you basically say on one more rigid regualtions for pharma and less for the natural crowd, hardly fair if both claim a medicinal benefit they need to prove it.
    Historic or cultural beliefs are not enough and it must be remembered our understanding of the body was not the same 1000 years ago so while done in good faith some natural treatments are useless and even harmful.


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    #312
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    Pixel8 wrote: »
    the best proof is to TRY something for yourself

    Yepyepyep.
    Personal Experience!
    The BEST evidence!
    Yepyepyep.


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    #313
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    Pixel8 wrote: »
    I totally disagree with that. The main difference as i see it is that synthetic drugs are artificial and target the suppression of certain functions in the body to 'turn off' pain etc. artificial drugs do not cure anything, they just suppress the symptoms most of the time.

    Natural vitamins and minerals are what your organs actually need in order to operate and work properly so feeding your body with natural vitamins and minerals (fruit and veg) or vitamin supplements is still a lot better than synthetic drugs. Because you're addressing the root cause of your problem. Vitamins and minerals give your organs what they need to work perfectly and once they have the nutrition they need, the body fixes itself.

    Science still doesn't know much about how all this works... so to deny the positive effect that vitamins have is just arrogant. We know they work, but we don't know how exactly they work.

    http://www.healthsupplementsnutritionalguide.com/vitamin-deficiency-symptoms.html

    Dunno where to start with this, bizzare post to be honest even if your science education was just secondary school.

    synthetic estrogen works the same way as natural estrogen because they are both the same, your body can't tell the difference it just reacts to a stimulus.

    Answer this, how do nutritionally healthy people still get cancer? You say vitamins protect agaisnt the root cause but sometimes it your genes that are responsible what then?

    How does the body fix its self, for example do cancer cells return to be normal cells?, Also cancer cells use the same processes as healthy cells, how do vitamins tell the difference between the two.

    How can nutrition protect agaisnt say the hiv virus?

    How come the researchers who tell you these things have not show these claims at an in-vitro level? Pretty easy take a combinations of vitmains apply to some cancer cell lines and three days later see if the cells stopped growing

    I know you won't address this as the questions are too direct


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