The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

etuzyuk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351279#Comment_121351279

I know what I said. My initial point was counter to the notion that Graham's preference for youth cost us relegation. That's simply not true, the youngsters were our brightest performers that campaign and it was bringing in unfit older players that relegated us. And I think you're wrong, technically we were still in the hunt for promotion last game. Would have had to win well, would have needed a few freak results elsewhere, but I believe there was a scenario 8 points would have done. But that's splitting hairs and nothing to do with my point.

The losses after promotion never bothered me as I previously said, I just thought he was experimenting so he could go with the best available come championship. Doesn't appear that way in hindsight though, looks like he was falling back into his old ways and going with those he knew longer. The selection against Armagh was shocking. I've given you 3 names already dropped, half a team of players with questionable fitness, how many more you want? Here's 3 more, Finnegan, David Brady and O'Neill. All featured prominently in our canter to promotion, never got a look in afterwards.

KeepTheFaith

Your argument is changing now. When you started you said the losses came when we dropped the youngsters and went back to the old guard. I've shown you the teamsheets that disprove that. Now you're talking about the Championship.

There's also the reality that some of the players you've mentioned were clearly out of their depth. Finnegan was getting cleaned against Offaly and was replaced and couldnt get his place back. O'Neill had some good performances early in the league but as ground firmed up it became clear he wasn't up to the standard required and his cameos as the year went on backed that up.

Brady was a mixed bag, had a habit of giving the ball away around the middle. He was also injured for a lot of the later games. Boylan similar. Was doing well but clearly wasn't strong enough for Ulster Championship football.

Madden had a good league but he was a liability in a defensive capacity and teams were targeting him. In fairness to him, he did well against Armagh but I can see why Mickey made the decision.

Some of the newer faces are well below the standard of their older teammates. That will become clearer over the next few years.

etuzyuk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352020#Comment_121352020

Nothing changed in my argument. For the third time now I'll repeat the losses after promotion were no biggie and half expected due to experimenting for championship with promotion secure. It's the championship team I have the problem with and it's clear now in hindsight he never rated the team got us promoted and they were never going to be his championship team considerations bar serious injury, and I'll highlight the word serious.

Your reality is they were out of their depth but the actual reality is they got us promoted in tougher fixtures. And how are they clearly not strong enough for Ulster if a) we didn't see them feature, and b) the ones did come on made a huge difference.

The cold hard truth is that the team took the field against Armagh were way way below the required standard be it due to injury, lack of fitness, lack of speed or desire. Game was over after 15 minutes. You say these new faces are well below this standard again. Well I certainly disagree with you and hope to God I'm right because it's a frightening thought for the future if they can be any worse.

KeepTheFaith

"This year we got promoted at a canter to Division 2, a lot of injuries so a lot of youngsters. We only started losing games when the injured players returned"

The above is what you said about this year's league. As i've shown you with the teamsheets, it's not correct. If you have issue with the Championship team you may have a case but the drop off in the league was not caused by dropping youngsters for the old guard.

The tougher fixtures in the league were Westmeath where Ciaran Brady and Dara McVeety were the two standout players. We hammered Tipp, hammered Longford and I suppose you could say Offaly was tough - Paddy Lynch was man of the match.

What young players got us through tough league fixtures?

etuzyuk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352274#Comment_121352274

If you're going to quote me pal quote the whole lot. That's not it all and not the context of what I said. We starting losing games after promotion from making changes, yes as it happens bringing older players back, but to be expected and no harm if it was to improve the team for championship. Killian Brady, Jack McKenna, Conor Moynagh and Cian Brady got starts if I recall game 6. Again for the forth time now, nothing wrong with that and in fact it was the right thing to do seeing we were already up. But there was nothing in the results that followed justified the change in selection for game v Armagh.

I referenced the promotion games in part because on WAC I seem to remember the lads being utterly at a loss as to how we suddenly, from playing so purposefully and transitioning the ball so well in our promotion charge, we looked such a different team and out of sorts v Armagh. Niall Caralon and Tiarnan Madden were huge in improving our transition forward with purpose and speed coupled with lads like Boylan and O'Neill showing at every opportunity and fighting to win ball. That's what transition is, it's not some mystery. The team v Armagh were flat on their feet and not interested.

Cavan_King

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351445#Comment_121351445

A juvenile team normally trains for the year together. You’d be training a team and probably have your 16 year olds getting very little game time through League due to 18 year olds being there and then suddenly the 18 year olds are gone.

 

Voting Procedure

 

As these are competition regulations a simple majority is all that is required to adopt any option put to the floor.

 

Vote 1 Decision as to which age we decouple at 17 or 18

 

If the decision is to decouple at 18 then Option 2 is the only viable option.

If the decision is to decouple at 17 the number of options that are put to the floor will determine how we reach a decision with currently three options in circulation however not allmay actually be formally proposed on the night. The number actually proposed will determine whether we may need to vote or not and how that will proceed. If there are two proposals before delegates this will require a simple majority decision however if there are three proposals before delegates,a second vote may be required dependent upon the initial outcome.

 

Please note this is a full Co. Board meeting and your normal delegates should attend - you may at your discretion replace any delegate for this meeting however you must ensure that the relevant proxy authorisation is submitted.

UrbanFret

What options are there to view the Gowna Game? ulster Gaa have it. Does any of the other platforms?

Thanks

Bobson Dugnutt

Hopefully it’s better fare than the absolute scutter on RTE2 at the moment. This type of football should be banned.

rrs

Clubber might have the Gowna game.

Gowna will have a go but NC are very defensive. Cavan club football is mostly open but the styles in other Ulster counties can be a hard watch.

Added in with it being played on a cold November day.

UrbanFret

Bit the bullet and paid €70 for the ulster Gaa club championship pass. hopefully the cavan sides progress in their competitions and it will be worth it.

rrs

I'll go the games as handy to see both teams in Breffni. Conor Brady went off in County final and unlikely to start. He probably would have picked up Ciaran Thompson, a quality footballer.

Cavan_King

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356709#Comment_121356709

I don’t know if it’ll get a big crowd of neutrals with the weather.

benjy1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356569#Comment_121356569

Can you just pay for the gowna game or do you have to get the full pass?

I see you can, it’s €15 mind not chape

celt262

Some bit off messing there from Gowna after doing all the hard work to throw it away in the end.

benjy1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359186#Comment_121359186

Exactly, very bad awful lot of fluting about.

They simply Browned the togs.

KeepTheFaith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359284#Comment_121359284

That's probably a bit harsh. They lost the game in a split second. They certainly didn't choke, quite the opposite IMO.

They made errors that resulted in them being down double scores at half time and fought back against a famously defensive side to lead with time almost up.

A moment of being stupid or trying to be too cute at the the end with the sideline cost them.

Cavan_King

One stupid decision after another. Poor sportsmanship on the line ball twice turned it into a throw up and, even after that, just catch the ball, why punch it in your own square? Had Casey caught the ball, it’s game over.

There’s no glorious loss in that to be honest. Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. It’s a real sucker punch.

It’s a real pity because it would have been fantastic to have all three Cavan teams win their games.

rrs

They will need to develop a younger keeper who can kick long or short. Bannon a good servant for a long time but it's an area which has been exploited before.

baconsarnie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352407#Comment_121352407

I think the biggest thing was McVeerty at centre half back was playing out of his skin in the first five games and practically MOTM in nearly every single one. Once he picked up his injury we never really recovered. He was simply that good. I could see the gamble in playing him against Armagh but it didn't pay off.

Re Carolan, he picked up a bad knock and lost his form. He was taken to the cleaners by Kelm in Breffni and on memory was hooked in the league final as well. On form, I would have picked McLoughlin over him as a man marker. Managers can make the right calls and still be unlucky.

I agree with you on Tiarnan Madden, regardless of perception of his defensive capabilities leaving him off suggested a more conservative approach.

Regardless of personnel, the approach was what cost us. In too many big games our tactic seemed to be "let's hold back for the last quarter". It worked for us in 2020 but games that (for me) that were there for the taking (Westmeath, Armagh and Down this year) we held back rather than go at teams.

baconsarnie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359576#Comment_121359576

That's more than harsh, it's not remotely reflective of the performance. Until that moment of foolishness, a very mature performance. Gowna probed well against a very well-drilled Glenties team and barring two poor frees and a goalkeeping mistake performed well in the first half against a very tight wind. In fact if Glenties didn't get that goal I was very confident Gowna had the players to kick from distance with the wind to beat the blanket.

A fair contingent in Breffni at half time (Glenties and Cavan fans not from Gowna) felt that there was no chance for Gowna and in fact having to chase the game that Glenties would soak up pressure on punch holes on the break. Rather than throw the towel in or choke, Gowna went out and dominated the second half and the last ten minutes out ran Glenties. Seanie Hartin was absolutely magnificent, he's been some player this year for them.

Look an attempt at running the clock down cost them and it's hugely frustrating. Anyone suggesting that Gowna "browned the togs" is just some interclub schadenfreude. They played with serious heart and some quality football and were good enough to get over the line but were caught by a sucker punch of their own making which is going to be a very hard one to take for them.

Just to note, i'm not from Gowna and even i was gutted for them leaving Breffni yesterday!

baconsarnie

No comment for Ballyhaise in their intermediate match? I knew Ballyhaise were going in as favourites but I'm never happy with Cavan teams going in as clear favourites! No need to worry, Ballyhaise utterly dominated Downings. But for some lacklustre shooting in the second half (albeit with the game well and truly over with about 20 minutes gone) it could have been an utter massacre. Downings assigned a man marker on David Brady and whilst he was pretty quiet by his standards he still bagged 4 points from play. Martin Conaty and Padraig Moore were magnificent. There's a lot of quality in that Ballyhaise team.

Shame that it's not a Cavan Vs Derry double header in two weeks, that would have been some craic.

rrs

A very good win,but Downings were very average. If they are the best Intermediate team in Donegal ,it must be lacking quality beneath Senior. Denn comfortably beat Downings 2 years ago in the Ulster junior final

Derry have an unusual system whereby the intermediate winners aren't promoted just the League winners. Glenullin won Derry intermediate in 22 & 23. Eoin Bradley still performing

mylestheslasher

Very disappointed for Gowna. They messed up majorly 3 times in my book. 1- missing 2 frees before HT and conceding a goal, going in 4 down instead of 1 up. 2- Bannons blunder ad 3- At the end.

They had time to rectify the 1st 2 and did so very well but the last one was terrible. I hope they learn that hard lesson and come back next year and set it straight. Well done Ballyhaise, didnt see the game but a great result.

etuzyuk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362055#Comment_121362055

Understand what you're saying, I'll admit I'd have a fair element of frustration with the previous management, whatever about team selections but definitely use of the bench. Ok, team v Armagh was a gamble and I'm not suggesting we could have won the game with the younger lads but when it went south so obviously fast we were once again far far too slow to make changes. We've shown enough last few years that there are other options there, first options hardly been pulling up trees, and a bit of adventure and energy is long over due if not first 15 then off bench. I'd add Donegal last year too to that list. People seemed happy enough with the courageous loss and blamed a sucker punch goal but we ran out of energy for the final stretch. Donegal emptied the bench, we waited to see how it might go.

etuzyuk

Have to say thought is was a brilliant game of football yesterday 2nd game. Very cagey tight stuff. Gowna were definitely rattled and was a big change from the time and space they're used to in Cavan but they responded very well second half.

They missed some very poor frees and conceded a bad goal before HT which made the uphill task look too great after the break. I was very impressed with Donegal team, ok they were very defensive but they broke with terrific speed and were very economical and wasted nothing. Thought they carried the much greater goal threat throughout and had Gowna on the ropes second half if they had been more adventorous. In saying that I thought McKeever was magnificant and his reading of the game and composure kept Gowna in it when it looked like NC were in for a few killer blows.

 But after Brady's goal Gowna really came into their own and looked the better team. Awful bit of messing at the end to throw it away like that. Had the game won, all they had to do was secure possession on their own line kick but tried to be way too clever. Definitely be worth a penny for McCabes thoughts!!!! Credit to the opposition though, very sleek to work a goal from that. Even the quick free and pass back to freetaker, was just enough to draw a bit of space in front of goal and it was an expertly placed shot when it did fall. Experience won out.

Shout out to referee too, thought he had a great game. I didn't notice him much at all.

Missed first game but congratulations to Ballyhaise. Fine big footballing team. Didn't have to do a lot in county final but you always felt there were a few more gears in them and hope they can go a lot further in Ulster. 

celt262

Is the County board meeting tonight?

baconsarnie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363963#Comment_121363963

I agree about caution to change things from the bench being an issue. The Donegal game in 2022 is a good example. We put in a massive shift but didn't make changes until the game was lost. From memory, the panel wasn't as strong and we were bringing on lads who weren't fit (Oisin Kiernan, Martin Reilly and the Holla). Changes against Westmeath last year were way too slow in happening (failing to make tactical changes quickly or hooking players who clearly just weren't at the races).

There's a fair argument that the 15 listed against Armagh was our strongest 15 IF all the lads were fit. But they clearly weren't and it might have been better to hold some of them back for an impact in the second half (assuming we were still in it).

baconsarnie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364072#Comment_121364072

Good call on the refereeing. It was a brilliant game played at a high tempo and plenty of hard hitting and no quarter asked. It was hugely enjoyable and not one person left the game blaming the ref. Which must be a first for a game held in Breffni :)

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364589#Comment_121364589

Yeah, back to even underage U-16, U-18 etc groupings apparently.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365122#Comment_121365122

Sence prevails I don't understand why the County board were so against it and did all they could to muddy the waters to try and keep things the way it was when every other county seems to be changing.