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Burglar cut off artist's fingers...

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    #152
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Well whether his tendencies are a result of a psychiatric disorder or whether he's just a vicious lowlife.


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    #153
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Dudess wrote: »
    Well whether his tendencies are a result of a psychiatric disorder or whether he's just a vicious lowlife.

    Its possible to be both. I find it funny how we seem to be willing to basically hand the judicial system over the psychiatric services. The c**t knew what he was doing and knew it was wrong...case closed, pull the lever, drop the trap door and no one else looses their fingers.


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    #154
    Stiffler2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    Just cut his hands off and release him into the public again.
    That way my tax money won't have to pay for his xBox online renewal in the Joy nor will he be able to stab anyone anymore.

    What's he gonna do ? break into someone's house and stump them ??


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    #155
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    You don't know for certain that he was of rational mind when he did it - maybe he was though, in which case, very ****ing scary! :eek:
    The deal with putting people in the psych hospital is they're too much of a danger to other inmates in a prison. I wouldn't say it's to do with special treatment or anything.


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    #156
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Plautus wrote: »
    16 years is not a miniscule sentence and is at the upper range of sentencing for something like aggravated burglary.

    Personally, I don't think 16 years is minuscule considering the life sentence he has inflicted on his numerous victims


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    #157
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    What a savage , horrific attack .The mind boggles as to how this guy was let out to carry on where he left off .


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    #158
    Johnny D. Mudd
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnny D. Mudd


    I was horrified the first time I heard the details of this crime and reading this still horrifies me. The intent to commit such a heinous crime was obviously there as he took the time to cut her and this to my mind shows sociopathic tendencies. Now I know 16 years is quite a long time to wait to get out but keep in mind that when this man does get out, he'll be at most 51 years old (not taking into consideration possible parole) and will still be fit enough to commit this type of crime again.

    You can say what you want about the sentence fitting the crime but surely mitigating factors such as intent, prior history and the consequences of the actions on the victim should be taken into account when sentencing is given. This man showed not only intent to rob but intent to kill by butchering that woman and chopping off fingers, he has a prior history of brutal violence and the woman will now need to live the rest of her life without some of her fingers (which will wreck her career as an artist) or with prosthetic fingers.

    Surely in lieu of sentencing, the judge in this case should consider this man's violent history and see that he clearly has no remorse, cannot be rehabilitated and will remain a danger to society in general. Surely then a stiffer sentence or even one that takes the part of that man's life that matters should be employed.


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    #159
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    On the issue of liberals:

    I'm as liberal as they come on as most issues, but am disgusted by the leniency of the criminal justice system in Ireland. I'm a liberal who believes in the punishment of crime: both as a deterrent, and even as a kind of vengeance.

    So to those bashing "liberal do gooders", it's a generalisation.

    This is a sickening story. There is no excuse. I hope the victim recovers well, and prospers. Glad to hear she's been married since.


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    #160
    Johnny D. Mudd
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnny D. Mudd


    AnnyHallsal wrote: »
    On the issue of liberals:

    I'm as liberal as they come on as most issues, but am disgusted by the leniency of the criminal justice system in Ireland. I'm a liberal who believes in the punishment of crime: both as a deterrent, and even as a kind of vengeance.

    So to those bashing "liberal do gooders", it's a generalisation.

    This is a sickening story. There is no excuse. I hope the victim recovers well, and prospers. Glad to hear she's been married since.

    I agree with you on this one, this kind of punishment is a more formal form of vengeance, it takes one part of a persons life in compensation for the part lost by their victim. So surely the price paid by the criminal should match that lost by the victim(s). Now it's never easy to put such a theory into practice, especially with mitigating circumstances and factors to consider, but surely a near enough price should be paid so that in some form or another, the victim has been compensated. Unfortunately, when a vicious stab-frenzy merits a 4-year-sentence, the victim can never be compensated.


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    #161
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    Johnny D. Mudd wrote: »
    I agree with you on this one, this kind of punishment is a more formal form of vengeance, it takes one part of a persons life in compensation for the part lost by their victim. So surely the price paid by the criminal should match that lost by the victim(s). Now it's never easy to put such a theory into practice, especially with mitigating circumstances and factors to consider, but surely a near enough price should be paid so that in some form or another, the victim has been compensated. Unfortunately, when a vicious stab-frenzy merits a 4-year-sentence, the victim can never be compensated.

    The four year stabbing sentence is really shocking. Overcrowding, presumably, and being broke must be partially responsible for the pathetic sentences serious crimes are given here.


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    #162
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Was reading about this case today.

    As per usual the guy had numerous prior convictions including stabbing two people multiple times.

    Why do we even bother any more, there's no such thing as rehabilitation for his kind? This guy will get out again in a few years and do the same kind of thing again. Some people are just worthless. Lock him up for the rest of his days so he can't harm anyone else. He's a useless, dangerous individual who needs to be segregated from the rest of society until he drops dead.


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    #163
    HicksLennon
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭HicksLennon


    Millicent wrote: »
    Eh... sounds suspiciously like you'd be there with the torch. :pac:

    It is horrible to think he will re-offend. And I'm almost sure he will. Hopefully, a psychological test can determine if he needs treatment for mental health issues, and if not, that he can be rehabilitated in jail. I doubt either is a real option though.

    I like your comment...
    I think it's funny how we debate whether this guy has mental health issues?? Anyone who commits a crime like this in my opinion has serious mental health issues... i really hate the society definition of mental health... so you have to be in a straight jacket throwing your crap before you are officially classed as mentally ill... i don't accept that there are just cruel people like this, born cruel... the guy is completely screwed up and the result is this... An absolute tragedy... as for what to do with him.. i don't know... very hard to know


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    #164
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    AnnyHallsal wrote: »
    On the issue of liberals:

    I'm as liberal as they come on as most issues, but am disgusted by the leniency of the criminal justice system in Ireland. I'm a liberal who believes in the punishment of crime: both as a deterrent, and even as a kind of vengeance.

    So to those bashing "liberal do gooders", it's a generalisation.
    People who blurt out tripe like that don't know what they're talking about and don't deserve your explanation. All their talk about people who believe the guy shouldn't be punished because he had a hard life - they're pulling it out of their arses and would be hard pushed to find an example of one such person.
    Most if not all people are going to believe the guy should be punished - not everyone thinks he should be tortured though. This doesn't make them bleeding heart liberals, just non dribblers.


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    #165
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Why didn't he get a life (as in die in prison) sentence? It is actually permissible under law.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0004.html#zza26y1997s4


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    #166
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    Why didn't he get a life (as in die in prison) sentence? It is actually permissible under law.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0004.html#zza26y1997s4

    Because Irish judges are liberal fools.


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    #167
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    He's a useless, dangerous individual who needs to be segregated from the rest of society until he drops dead.

    This is the issue for me.

    Dudess wrote: »
    People who blurt out tripe like that don't know what they're talking about and don't deserve your explanation. All their talk about people who believe the guy shouldn't be punished because he had a hard life - they're pulling it out of their arses and would be hard pushed to find an example of one such person.
    Most if not all people are going to believe the guy should be punished - not everyone thinks he should be tortured though. This doesn't make them bleeding heart liberals, just non dribblers.

    I don't think he should be tortured either. Just a good, long sentence until we come up with a better way of punishing/treating these people.

    The question is: is rehabilitation possible?

    I do believe, if you do something truly horrible to another human being, you deserve to be punished. Should you be given a chance to prove you won't do it again? Not sure.


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    #168
    Johnny D. Mudd
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnny D. Mudd


    AnnyHallsal wrote: »
    The four year stabbing sentence is really shocking. Overcrowding, presumably, and being broke must be partially responsible for the pathetic sentences serious crimes are given here.

    That sentence is baffling. Such problems as overcrowding are almost certainly responsible for the reluctance of judges to met out proper sentences that fit the crime. Of course it could be stated that the reason for overcrowding is due in no small terms to the excessive imprisoning of small-time offenders whose crimes are as small as not paying TV licenses. Yes they are all crimes but there are serious crimes and lesser crimes which go against the law and yet which leaves no lasting trauma on victims, crimes for which warnings are sufficient.


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    #169
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    mickydoomsux wrote: »

    Why do we even bother any more, there's no such thing as rehabilitation for his kind? This guy will get out again in a few years and do the same kind of thing again. Some people are just worthless.

    I'll nick a great line from an american cop "you can't rehabilitate someone who was never habilitated in the first place" :pac:


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    #170
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    I'm not buying the argument that lenient sentencing occurs because our judges are "liberal fools". Our judges are wealthy members of the elite, endorsed by the political and legal hierarchy of the day, unlikely to be 'radical' in any way. I doubt their personal ideological orientation has anything to do with sentencing, and I doubt that ideology would be 'liberal' anyway.


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    #171
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    The thing is now it has become the norm now to hear that somebody who commits horrific crimes as such has previous convictions for same ...so many now it's sometimes hard to keep up . When you read again of sombody who phones police to say her recently released from prison husband / boyfriend is coming to get her but is ignored , untill she and sometimes her children are found battered to death , you know the judiciary have got it wrong again .


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    #172
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    TheUsual wrote: »
    charlemont wrote: »
    Lots of people involved in gang or particularly gruesome murders will be inside till at least 20 years./QUOTE]

    Not true.

    Show me someone who has been convicted of a gangland murder i.e. Cotton Eye Delaney who has been convicted since the late 90's who has been released on license ??


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    #173
    deandean
    Registered Users Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭deandean


    Remember that nutter Brendan O'Donnell, he met his maker in the Dundrum Looney bin:

    "Brendan O'Donnell was sentenced to the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum, where he later died from an overdose of an anti-psychotic drug "....

    So let's send Mr Finger chopper to Dundrum where he'll be emasculated with powerful drugs, then after a respectable time (e.g. 12 months) the dose can be accidentially upped 10-fold.


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    #174
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    solved :mad:


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    #175
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    marcsignal wrote: »
    solved :mad:
    Great...all we need now is the concentration camp to go with it .


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    #176
    No1J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 783 ✭✭✭No1J


    charlemont wrote: »
    TheUsual wrote: »

    Show me someone who has been convicted of a gangland murder i.e. Cotton Eye Delaney who has been convicted since the late 90's who has been released on license ??
    Thought he died, nasty bastard, gave me the stare down and a load of guff one night, F'd off when it was put up to him, greasy hairy old git.


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    #177
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    Latchy wrote: »
    Great...all we need now is the concentration camp to go with it .

    Lease an industrial unit from NAMA


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    #178
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    Plautus wrote: »
    No, there is no reasonable argument I've heard of that says Mr. zenno gets to exact blood feud as a law unto himself whenever he or his family are slighted, injured or killed. It's a nasty little 'system' of justice that is brimming with emotion, can't be trusted to ensure only the guilty are punished and which is motivated by revenge and not the welfare of society at large.

    Crime is decreasing, the vast majority of people won't encounter serious crime in their life-time and vigilantism really is stupid. Do you think you're really so original? Law has endured in some form for thousands of years. It's on no verge of breakdown in Ireland, and we're long since past tit for tat.

    Make-believe is the land where most people wanting to castrate offenders are living.

    Perfect example of a person living in a cloud cuckoo land bubble.
    Crime is decreasing, show me the stats?
    Come on bright spark show me the stats where crime is decreasing year on year in Ireland.


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    #179
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    Caricatures by Mark Heng wrote: »
    I think enough people in Ireland are fed up with these lenient sentences. It's time for a national movement to change the laws to be much tougher on violent crime. 16 years for something like this seems ludicrous.

    Exactly we have too many left wing bleeding heart types in this county, if there was any justice all his fingers should of been cut off and then sentence to life without parole.


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    #180
    bradlente
    Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭bradlente


    The left/right argument going on in here between some people is pointless in my eyes.

    It's fair to say everyone thats clicked in here agrees the 1st sentence was a complete and utter farce and that cruel crimes like these should have much harsher punishments than some crimes they're on a par with jail-time wise.

    We're all better off quitting the political slagging match,imo It can distract people from the victim and the brutal crime that it was.

    Regardless of how you personally think he should be punished,We can all agree that what he got initially is not near enough and I think we can all agree prison reform is needed.


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    #181
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    JONJO THE MISER wrote: »
    Caricatures by Mark Heng wrote: »
    I think enough people in Ireland are fed up with these lenient sentences. It's time for a national movement to change the laws to be much tougher on violent crime. 16 years for something like this seems ludicrous.

    Exactly we have too many left wing bleeding heart types in this county, if there was any justice all his fingers should of been cut off and then sentence to life without parole.
    Give one example? Otherwise maybe put some thought in instead of the usual tedious and meaningless soundbites?


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